Our Owners Need To Read This

[SwissBlade]

Net spend this summer was £100m.

Their model is all about sustainability by increasing the commercial income and selling and replacing star players at the right times.

Yes net £100+ and Gross was closer to £150m, the point being that the League 1 to PL sustainability model which the article is about is perhaps missing the key points I mentioned:

• they were well off the pace of the top 2, they were 24 points behind 2nd and relied on the lottery of the play offs to get up, which they did. So they got some luck
• they’ve had to spend almost all of their premier league 1st season income to put themselves in this position.

I’ve no doubt their model of recruiting young players with a potential for higher sell on fee works, we’ve seen it work ourselves at United.

The model also relies on an element of luck.

Sunderland have come up from league one and done well, they’ve also had the benefit of growing organically as they’ve come up.

We’re in a very different scenario as we’ve had to reduce wages from premier league levels whilst also trying to recruit young players from different (cheaper) markets and hope that they can develop quickly into first teamers

 

[54yrblade]

They are putting in place all of the things we failed to do. Replacing departing players in an effective way is very much an integral part of the plan.

A million times this

Our long term planning, failing to replace JOC anywhere near effectively just the worst of many examples, has been woeful since 2016, and here we are.

Favouritism, nepotism, tunnel thinking that belongs in league one at best, is not a way to build a PL sustainable club.

And the scapegoating of players continues. A smokescreen for the bigger issues and those involved in them.

 

[SwissBlade]

The difference is they sold their crown jewels and used the money very wisely. Signing experienced, quality players like Granit Xhaka as well as taking a few pints.

We on the other hand, sold out best two players and reinvested (the bit that we actually did spend) the money in absolute dross, or to out it politely, players that simply weren't cut out for the PL. Beni Traore is a prime example - technically looked ok but nowhere near the physical level required.

The point is about the model isn’t it? Rather than individual players

It also relies on players being contracted long term to realise the values when they are sold on

This article could’ve been written about us in our first season in the premier league, with the signings we made and the way they were performing in that season

 

[Nick Jansky]

This article could’ve been written about us in our first season in the premier league, with the signings we made and the way they were performing in that season

It couldn’t really because we failed to put a solid leadership structure in place and relied on jacks of all trade to do everything and muddle through. I know for a fact that our various Finance Directors have been jobbing FDs with no previous connection to professional sports. Whereas Mike Papadimitriou at Sunderland is streets ahead of anything we’ve had. Similarly with the commercial operations, ours have always been woefully parochial, which is a metaphor for the whole club. Not taking those steps is the biggest reason we are where we are.

 

[SwissBlade]

A million times this

Our long term planning, failing to replace JOC anywhere near effectively just the worst of many examples, has been woeful since 2016, and here we are.

Glad you mentioned JOC as he was a huge part of our sustainability model. Signed in 2016 aged 22, for around £500k. He was in his prime at 25 in that first premier league season, on the verge of the England squad. He suffered a career ending knee injury which no doubt scuppered any options of making money on him. He was therefore replaced with what we could get.

Signings of Berge, McBurnie, Mousset, Bogle were all done so whilst they were young and with at least the view to getting back what we paid or getting value from them whilst they were with us. Staying up allowed us to purchase other young players like Brewster and Ramsdale.

Brooks, Peck, Arblaster, Ndiaye, Osula and Jebbison were all recruited for the development squad or came through the academy and have all been successful in

The problem which has been a huge one for us has been the injuries. We’ve not addressed the issues with why we’ve ended up with so many long term injured players.

The other issue which has been highlighted with Ndiaye and Berge is that they were able to run down contracts which didn’t allow us to realise full value for these two.

 

[Frank the tank]

Because it is a great case study on how to build a sustainable PL club from L1.

This is how you do it.

South central does it like nooooobody does

 

[SwissBlade]

It couldn’t really because we failed to put a solid leadership structure in place and relied on jacks of all trade to do everything and muddle through. I know for a fact that our various Finance Directors have been jobbing FDs with no previous connection to professional sports. Whereas Mike Papadimitriou at Sunderland is streets ahead of anything we’ve had. Similarly with the commercial operations, ours have always been woefully parochial, which is a metaphor for the whole club. Not taking those steps is the biggest reason we are where we are.

I appreciate that our owners are new and have been less than a year at the helm. However, if you want to compare us to Sunderland we can do so in the period 2016 to now.

Sunderland’s owner has been at the club since 2021 and taken them from league one to 10 games into their premier league season. Their model whilst interesting is not particularly new as I’ve mentioned

We went from league one to the premier league in less time and also had a sustainable model in theory.

We’ve not done everything right but we have had two spells in the premier league. We’ve bought young players in with a hope to increasing their value or sustaining us in the premier league. Sunderland will no doubt want better than that. But for most clubs it’s still a decent achievement

If Sunderland can sustain it and push on like Forest and Wolves did for a while then fair play. But what if they don’t? With a third of the season gone they’ve done really well, fairing better than Leeds and Burnley that came up with them.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I appreciate that our owners are new and have been less than a year at the helm. However, if you want to compare us to Sunderland we can do so in the period 2016 to now.

Sunderland’s owner has been at the club since 2021 and taken them from league one to 10 games into their premier league season. Their model whilst interesting is not particularly new as I’ve mentioned

We went from league one to the premier league in less time and also had a sustainable model in theory.

We’ve not done everything right but we have had two spells in the premier league. We’ve bought young players in with a hope to increasing their value or sustaining us in the premier league. Sunderland will no doubt want better than that. But for most clubs it’s still a decent achievement

If Sunderland can sustain it and push on like Forest and Wolves did for a while then fair play. But what if they don’t? With a third of the season gone they’ve done really well, fairing better than Leeds and Burnley that came up with them.

You can, of course, pick many different timeframes for the purposes of comparison. I know which leadership model looks better to me though.

 

[SwissBlade]

You can, of course, pick many different timeframes for the purposes of comparison. I know which leadership model looks better to me though.

The timeframe was significant since the article you posted was about Sunderland’s sustainable rise from league 1 to the premier league, 10 games. So I selected the same.

I also selected the period beyond our 10 games in the premier league.

I’m sure Sunderland’s model is fabulous and ours is horrific.

But ours has been effective as well over a much longer period

 

[jt64]

Because it is a great case study on how to build a sustainable PL club from L1.

This is how you do it.

Do you think our owners can afford an online legacy media subscription? Or the industrial strength ad blocker you'd likely otherwise need? Come on Nick, you're better than this

 

[GymClassHero]

The point is about the model isn’t it? Rather than individual players

It also relies on players being contracted long term to realise the values when they are sold on

This article could’ve been written about us in our first season in the premier league, with the signings we made and the way they were performing in that season

That was my first thought too. The first PL signings were, by and large, a success. It's the following windows that have fucked us up royally.

 

[dc_blade]

South central does it like nooooobody does

Underrated comment.

 

[Rodley]

We on the other hand, sold out best two players and reinvested (the bit that we actually did spend) the money in absolute dross, or to out it politely, players that simply weren't cut out for the PL. Beni Traore is a prime example - technically looked ok but nowhere near the physical level required.

Get the Prem but pay shit wages and it limits you to dross and gambles. That small time mentality is embedded in the Club’s DNA.

 

[FredZeppelin]

Something like that will scare our owners to death!

We're stuck with the 'Wilder, Bettis, Hoyland jobs for the boys method' approach.

Unfortunately, a good portion of our fan base can't see beyond the tedious 'Cult of Wilder' blindness either so we'll never be truly united as a club for the foreseeable.

utb

 

[Nick Jansky]

The timeframe was significant since the article you posted was about Sunderland’s sustainable rise from league 1 to the premier league, 10 games. So I selected the same.

I also selected the period beyond our 10 games in the premier league.

I’m sure Sunderland’s model is fabulous and ours is horrific.

But ours has been effective as well over a much longer period

Our model has flattered to deceive but has been found wanting. It wasn’t built to last and hasn’t been sustainable.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It couldn’t really because we failed to put a solid leadership structure in place and relied on jacks of all trade to do everything and muddle through. I know for a fact that our various Finance Directors have been jobbing FDs with no previous connection to professional sports. Whereas Mike Papadimitriou at Sunderland is streets ahead of anything we’ve had. Similarly with the commercial operations, ours have always been woefully parochial, which is a metaphor for the whole club. Not taking those steps is the biggest reason we are where we are.

Connections to Scarborough Group used to help!

Mal Brannigan had a football background with Coventry and Derby but not it seems a particularly auspicious one.

Then came What Nigel and Malachy did next….

 

[SwissBlade]

Our model has flattered to deceive but has been found wanting. It wasn’t built to last and hasn’t been sustainable.

Ok so you’re saying that Sunderland’s will also go the same way?

 

[SwissBlade]

That was my first thought too. The first PL signings were, by and large, a success. It's the following windows that have fucked us up royally.

It was obviously a combination of events, injuries and the owners not being able to sustain the so called sustainable model… which Sunderland are being lauded for right now…

There were not only errors in the recruitment in the windows but chasing losses and injuries

 

[Nick Jansky]

Ok so you’re saying that Sunderland’s will also go the same way?

No, I’m not saying that. Sunderland are putting the organisation in place that we failed to do. They are being run professionally.

 

[UddersBlade]

It’s sad that we have had circa £400 million between 2019 and 2026 from our 3 seasons in the Premier League and have failed miserably to put in place a solid infrastructure for a Cat 1 Academy / Trg Facility. Various reasons but probably COVID & the Jack O’Connell injury were major factors. If the season in 19/20 has run normally we would probably have sneaked into Europe and maybe even a cup semi or even Final. That may have allowed us to invest on better quality players for 20/21 and cement a position in the Prem.

That chance has now gone and I believe COH will hope we stay up but will look to sell us and cut their losses in the Summer.

 

[SwissBlade]

No, I’m not saying that. Sunderland are putting the organisation in place that we failed to do. They are being run professionally.

But following a similar model to our unsustainable one

 

[Nick Jansky]

But following a similar model to our unsustainable one

They are following it in a much more professional way than we did. They have decision makers who have a track record of knowing what they were doing. We didn’t, and still don’t. The ambitions were similar, the execution very different.

 

[SwissBlade]

They are following it in a much more professional way than we did. They have decision makers who have a track record of knowing what they were doing. We didn’t, and still don’t. The ambitions were similar, the execution very different.

Ok.

Well as I said, let’s see how it goes for them.

Seems that after 4 years, promotion to the premier league and net £100m spent their owner has become professional in a way that we can only dream of.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Ok.

Well as I said, let’s see how it goes for them.

Seems that after 4 years, promotion to the premier league and net £100m spent their owner has become professional in a way that we can only dream of.

Well yes, when you look at what they have put together behind the scenes they undoubtedly have. We are run amateurishly by comparison.

As you say, we will see.

 

[SwissBlade]

Well yes, when you look at what they have put together behind the scenes they undoubtedly have. We are run amateurishly by comparison.

As you say, we will see.

Well the result was seemingly the same to this point, so their professionals have just done what a bunch of amateurs managed to do 5-9 years ago by luck rather than good judgement. Crazy what Sunderland must be doing behind the scenes

 

[Nick Jansky]

Well the result was seemingly the same to this point, so their professionals have just done what a bunch of amateurs managed to do 5-9 years ago by luck rather than good judgement. Crazy what Sunderland must be doing behind the scenes

That’s pretty much it, yes. But the test of it will be what comes next, won’t it. We didn’t progress in areas like recruitment and commercial revenue generation. They are light years ahead of where we were in 2019 on those things, which I predict will be the difference.

 

[SwissBlade]

That’s pretty much it, yes. But the test of it will be what comes next, won’t it. We didn’t progress in areas like recruitment and commercial revenue generation. They are light years ahead of where we were in 2019 on those things, which I predict will be the difference.

Ok great. Yes. What they do from now on will be interesting