“Nothing to do with systems”

[IdLiketoRogerMoore]

Based on a lot of the comments on here in the last 24 hours, i can honestly say the phrase 'you get the team the fans deserve' is so true.

The irony of a bunch of bed wetters frothing at the keyboard blaming Wilder for everything from not buying a RB to lack of pashun to tactical systems, whilst claiming a lack of commitment and effort isn't lost on me.

This modern day fad of blaming someone whether it be Peck, Wilder, small boats is laughable.

Is Wilder doing a good job? Probably not but the knee jerk reaction and wanting his head on a spike from most around this forum is frankly embarrassing.

Gerrim sacked? Give me a break. Challenge him to be better and improve - definitely! Wanting blood sacrifices is frankly ridiculous.

Happy to take a beating from those of you frothing if it helps you to cathartically externalise the angst and be more level headed....

 

[Varkanoid]

View attachment 224829

This is the single biggest reason why we’re so shit. We’ve recruited so unbelievable badly, we’re left with a squad who couldn’t perform at the required level if Klopp were in charge.

13 summer signings and the only 1 who has made any kind of positive difference is worse than the player who he replaced (Soumare & Vini).

I can’t bring myself to blame Wilder for this mess, but he needs to work an actual miracle in January to salvage anything from this season.

Chong, forgot about him where did he go ?

 

[Edgar Allan Poo]

Chong, forgot about him where did he go ?

Gave him my credit card to go down the offy and not seen him since!

 

[brownblade]

Thanks for this thread. Reminded me of this forgotten masterpiece of a song from a better time.

This song feels pretty appropriate.

 

[Bartleby]

It was very distracting too playing it after we had already kicked off. Not a fan of doing it like that.

Gary Sinclair's fault that second goal

 

[Balham]

Chong, forgot about him where did he go ?

Jarred his knee in the warm up before Oxford. Not entirely sure what the exact injury was but it put him out for 2-3 months.

 

[Kenilworth]

Based on a lot of the comments on here in the last 24 hours, i can honestly say the phrase 'you get the team the fans deserve' is so true.

The irony of a bunch of bed wetters frothing at the keyboard blaming Wilder for everything from not buying a RB to lack of pashun to tactical systems, whilst claiming a lack of commitment and effort isn't lost on me.

This modern day fad of blaming someone whether it be Peck, Wilder, small boats is laughable.

Is Wilder doing a good job? Probably not but the knee jerk reaction and wanting his head on a spike from most around this forum is frankly embarrassing.

Gerrim sacked? Give me a break. Challenge him to be better and improve - definitely! Wanting blood sacrifices is frankly ridiculous.

Happy to take a beating from those of you frothing if it helps you to cathartically externalise the angst and be more level headed....

This

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

Is Wilder doing a good job? Probably not but the knee jerk reaction and wanting his head on a spike from most around this forum is frankly embarrassing.

Gerrim sacked? Give me a break. Challenge him to be better and improve - definitely! Wanting blood sacrifices is frankly ridiculous.

Happy to take a beating from those of you frothing if it helps you to cathartically externalise the angst and be more level headed....

You’re entirely welcome to disagree, obviously, but I don’t think the tone in which I started this thread is “frothing” or “knee jerk”. Neither do I think the OP suggests I want “his head on a spike”, or a “blood sacrifice”.

“Challenge him to be better and improve”, in a “level headed” manner? Absolutely.

 

[Servigliano]

Based on a lot of the comments on here in the last 24 hours, i can honestly say the phrase 'you get the team the fans deserve' is so true.

The irony of a bunch of bed wetters frothing at the keyboard blaming Wilder for everything from not buying a RB to lack of pashun to tactical systems, whilst claiming a lack of commitment and effort isn't lost on me.

This modern day fad of blaming someone whether it be Peck, Wilder, small boats is laughable.

Is Wilder doing a good job? Probably not but the knee jerk reaction and wanting his head on a spike from most around this forum is frankly embarrassing.

Gerrim sacked? Give me a break. Challenge him to be better and improve - definitely! Wanting blood sacrifices is frankly ridiculous.

Happy to take a beating from those of you frothing if it helps you to cathartically externalise the angst and be more level headed....

Also buggering off with 10 minutes to go is really going to help the team. Really good supporters aren't you.
It seems to me that a lot on here are just waiting for us to lose so they can stick it to Wilder.
We're desperately short of a big CF, say like the one at Wrexham.
No RFB either - and I suppose that's Wlder's fault as well.
People clamour for 2 up front, but You can only play 2 up front if you've got one big man - and we let him walk.
After failing yet again at a PO final (mainly due to a dodgy VAR decision) unsurprisingly we lost Souza , Anel, Moore, Choudhury,. Maybe if Wilder hadn't been sacked one or two may have been kept -who knows, but one thing's for sure Wilder would have had replacements lined up. No way on earth would he have had most of those who Selles recruited. He's now having to play with one hand tied behind his back.
If we can achieve mid table by end of December we might have a reasonable chance of attracting the players Wider needs in the hope of making the play offs

 

[Chris the Blade]

Also buggering off with 10 minutes to go is really going to help the team. Really good supporters aren't you.
It seems to me that a lot on here are just waiting for us to lose so they can stick it to Wilder.
We're desperately short of a big CF, say like the one at Wrexham.
No RFB either - and I suppose that's Wlder's fault as well.
People clamour for 2 up front, but You can only play 2 up front if you've got one big man - and we let him walk.
After failing yet again at a PO final (mainly due to a dodgy VAR decision) unsurprisingly we lost Souza , Anel, Moore, Choudhury,. Maybe if Wilder hadn't been sacked one or two may have been kept -who knows, but one thing's for sure Wilder would have had replacements lined up. No way on earth would he have had most of those who Selles recruited. He's now having to play with one hand tied behind his back.
If we can achieve mid table by end of December we might have a reasonable chance of attracting the players Wider needs in the hope of making the play offs

Looks like you're a member of the CW gang. He who can do no wrong.

 

[Balham]

Also buggering off with 10 minutes to go is really going to help the team. Really good supporters aren't you.
It seems to me that a lot on here are just waiting for us to lose so they can stick it to Wilder.
We're desperately short of a big CF, say like the one at Wrexham.
No RFB either - and I suppose that's Wlder's fault as well.
People clamour for 2 up front, but You can only play 2 up front if you've got one big man - and we let him walk.
After failing yet again at a PO final (mainly due to a dodgy VAR decision) unsurprisingly we lost Souza , Anel, Moore, Choudhury,. Maybe if Wilder hadn't been sacked one or two may have been kept -who knows, but one thing's for sure Wilder would have had replacements lined up. No way on earth would he have had most of those who Selles recruited. He's now having to play with one hand tied behind his back.
If we can achieve mid table by end of December we might have a reasonable chance of attracting the players Wider needs in the hope of making the play offs

I get all that but nobody is forcing Wilder to pick Tanganga out of position at right back, Peck when it’s clear he’s mentally fried and a centre forward who’s either woefully unfit in Campbell or just plain woeful in Cannon. There are enough options in the squad of 29 senior professionals to try something different as plan A clearly isn’t working.

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

Also buggering off with 10 minutes to go is really going to help the team. Really good supporters aren't you.
It seems to me that a lot on here are just waiting for us to lose so they can stick it to Wilder.
We're desperately short of a big CF, say like the one at Wrexham.
No RFB either - and I suppose that's Wlder's fault as well.
People clamour for 2 up front, but You can only play 2 up front if you've got one big man - and we let him walk.
After failing yet again at a PO final (mainly due to a dodgy VAR decision) unsurprisingly we lost Souza , Anel, Moore, Choudhury,. Maybe if Wilder hadn't been sacked one or two may have been kept -who knows, but one thing's for sure Wilder would have had replacements lined up. No way on earth would he have had most of those who Selles recruited. He's now having to play with one hand tied behind his back.
If we can achieve mid table by end of December we might have a reasonable chance of attracting the players Wider needs in the hope of making the play offs

This is S6 level of delusion.

 

[Blade21]

Based on a lot of the comments on here in the last 24 hours, i can honestly say the phrase 'you get the team the fans deserve' is so true.

The irony of a bunch of bed wetters frothing at the keyboard blaming Wilder for everything from not buying a RB to lack of pashun to tactical systems, whilst claiming a lack of commitment and effort isn't lost on me.

This modern day fad of blaming someone whether it be Peck, Wilder, small boats is laughable.

Is Wilder doing a good job? Probably not but the knee jerk reaction and wanting his head on a spike from most around this forum is frankly embarrassing.

Gerrim sacked? Give me a break. Challenge him to be better and improve - definitely! Wanting blood sacrifices is frankly ridiculous.

Happy to take a beating from those of you frothing if it helps you to cathartically externalise the angst and be more level headed....

And yet there were fans wanting Sellas gone after 1 game....

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Wilder’s post-match interview for Radio Sheff just now was vintage stuff. Asked in the opening question for his assessment of the loss, his immediate answer was “it was nothing to do with systems” (trans: “not my fault, guv”).

Ok, dreadful defensive errors by players in all three goals, and a questionable pen. But, I’m afraid that playing sterile U-shaped walking football with one up top for 70-odd minutes is ENTIRELY about systems, and, quite aside from defensive errors, was a major contributory factor to why we could not win, or draw, that game. Yet again.

Fine, throw the players under the bus. They deserve it today (Callum OH, and maybe SamMcCallum, apart). But fuck me, have the self-awareness and humility to accept a share of the blame.

Don't think it is much to do with systems.
It's more about a suicidal approach to compiling a squad that includes far too many players, a chunk of whom almost certainly regret signing and know they will be unlikely to play. That's before you even consider the level of ability.
Training sessions must be fairly surreal with the number of players knocking about the place and it's no wonder we largely look like a set of individuals pretty much every time we go out on the pitch, devoid of character, leadership, heart, desire.
No idea how any manager could sort out the absolute mess the club has needlessly created other than possibly an absolutely ruthless January, by which time we might well be too far adrift anyway.

 

[Servigliano]

This is S6 level of delusion.

This is S6 level of delusion.

I'd be grateful if you'd be a little more specific and also give reasons as to why.

 

[Rodley]

View attachment 224829

This is the single biggest reason why we’re so shit. We’ve recruited so unbelievable badly, we’re left with a squad who couldn’t perform at the required level if Klopp were in charge.

13 summer signings and the only 1 who has made any kind of positive difference is worse than the player who he replaced (Soumare & Vini).

I can’t bring myself to blame Wilder for this mess, but he needs to work an actual miracle in January to salvage anything from this season.

When you look at the outgoing players, this summer was arguably the worst transfer window we ever had. And that includes The Summer of Benie Traore. We set off for the cliff and put our foot down…

 

[Numpty's Dusty Ruts.]

I'd be grateful if you'd be a little more specific and also give reasons as to why.

Playoffs??? Come on mate!

 

[Rodley]

Don't think it is much to do with systems.
It's more about a suicidal approach to compiling a squad that includes far too many players, a chunk of whom almost certainly regret signing and know they will be unlikely to play. That's before you even consider the level of ability.
Training sessions must be fairly surreal with the number of players knocking about the place and it's no wonder we largely look like a set of individuals pretty much every time we go out on the pitch, devoid of character, leadership, heart, desire.
No idea how any manager could sort out the absolute mess the club has needlessly created other than possibly an absolutely ruthless January, by which time we might well be too far adrift anyway.

I think the plan has to be staying competitive in the relegation fight, ideally getting some headroom, and get to January by hook or by crook.

 

[nopigfansintown]

There isn't a system that these players could be put in that would yield even semi consistent positive results.

 

[loyalblade95]

I get all that but nobody is forcing Wilder to pick Tanganga out of position at right back, Peck when it’s clear he’s mentally fried and a centre forward who’s either woefully unfit in Campbell or just plain woeful in Cannon. There are enough options in the squad of 29 senior professionals to try something different as plan A clearly isn’t working.

A few things to note, Tanganga originally played RB for Spurs so he's not being played completely out of position, he's just better at CB than RB.

It's sort of the opposite to Gilchrist last season or Jimmy Dunne (CB/RB's), the latter of whom would have been signed (heavily rumoured at the time) had Wilder not been sacked.

Yes, we do have a squad of 29 players, but there are a few of them who are not up to the level of the championship yet, like Oné, Ukaki, Marsh and Faxon, as well as 2 complete unknowns in Zätterström and Nwachukwu.

Plus there's a few longer term injuries in there as well (longer than 2 weeks) in Hamer, Chong and Arblaster.

All of this reduces the number of players for CW to work with that are up to the level, as well as leaving us light in some areas, like RB, CB and RW.

 

[ATL Recs]

All managers make mistakes. Wilder makes lots of mistakes and doesn’t own up to them. I think our systems this season have been repeatedly at fault.
I don’t think the system was at fault today though, and I don’t think Wilder made big mistakes. Dropped Cannon and Barry which were correct decisions. Started McCallum which was a correct decision. Played a system that limited opportunities for the opposition from open play, and saw us create enough to score at least 2 from a number of decent chances.

The comment I picked up on post-match was the ‘we have to work hard for our goals’ and ‘we don’t get those free headers in the six yard box and a gift misplaced pass to a striker on his own with the keeper to beat, or those penalty decisions’ one. He’s right, but that’s because in a tight division in which we are very much an average side, the opposition just do the basic things adequately, concentrating fully from 1st whistle to last. We don’t. We haven’t been played off the park by anyone, and yet we’ve collected a dismal amount of points. It’s not bad luck.
Last season for us it was play ok for the whole game, make no mistakes, and one good moment of play wins 3 points (e.g. Campbell’s goal in the derby game). This season it’s very similar play, but then we don’t win a basic front-post header at a set piece, pass straight to the opposition, have a moment of key-stone cops defending, and we’re 3-0 down to a Derby side who should be nowhere near that sort of scoreline on a visit to Bramall Lane.
We do not make it hard for teams to get goals against us. Cooper’s form isn’t fantastic; there are weaknesses in the back line; but fundamentally we make far too many mistakes and cough up easy goals that render any talk of systems or formations pointless.

Seem to recall a kid called Brookes missed one of those one on ones we don’t get

 

[Tarqs]

Fans leave with 20 mins left and they're the reason weve lost!?

That's some take.

 

[Gannon's perm]

I'd be grateful if you'd be a little more specific and also give reasons as to why.

Many people were scarred by the prem season and started to bomb out early after this. We've lost 11 out 14 games this season. Only 4 players have scored league goals and only 2 players have more than a goal. We are truly dire.

I didn't want Wilder out after getting 92 points, even if the football was dull. He was getting results, despite not being the same manager he once was.

The signings made after his departure have been woeful. You mention not having a right back, Wilder hasn't liked or wanted to play an actual right back for some time. He played Trusty there, he played Gilchrist there and Choudary. We have seriki and Shackleton who can fill in there (). But Matos for some reason was selected as the RB fill in on the bench. He doesn't want an actual right back there, but a CH or midfielder that can fill in there.

You don't need a big target man to play two up top. The issue isn't how many strikers we play, it's that we have no runners from midfield, no one supporting and none that score goals or create. How many assists and goals have Soumare and Peck ?? There's no goals or creativity in that team.
That's not all on Wilder , yet he made the same mistake with Cannon as Brewster.

When we finished 9th in the prem, many games were tight, not much in them and we edged it. We didn't score much, but didn't concede either. The next season. Games were still tight, but instead of drawing or winning, we were just losing by the odd goal. Last season not much in the games, but we ending winning by the odd goal. Almost a mirror image this time , games are tight but we are losing. He's lost all but one of the home games.

It's not all on Wilder, but he's not the same manager as he was pre COVID. We are in a relegation scrap and if we lose the next two, or fail to get a win, then we could be cut a drift. It's top and 3rd. Southampton are rubbish and yet we were second best. We got bullied by a poor derby side. We can't score goals and are now shipping absolute comedy goals. That's relegation material. We're not going to be mid table by December, nor put a run together to challenge the play offs. This is a survival season and just like the play offs we know what the Blades do in those

 

[dc_blade]

And yet there were fans wanting Sellas gone after 1 game....

A fair few didn’t give him that long.

 

[Gannon's perm]

All managers make mistakes. Wilder makes lots of mistakes and doesn’t own up to them. I think our systems this season have been repeatedly at fault.
I don’t think the system was at fault today though, and I don’t think Wilder made big mistakes. Dropped Cannon and Barry which were correct decisions. Started McCallum which was a correct decision. Played a system that limited opportunities for the opposition from open play, and saw us create enough to score at least 2 from a number of decent chances.

The comment I picked up on post-match was the ‘we have to work hard for our goals’ and ‘we don’t get those free headers in the six yard box and a gift misplaced pass to a striker on his own with the keeper to beat, or those penalty decisions’ one. He’s right, but that’s because in a tight division in which we are very much an average side, the opposition just do the basic things adequately, concentrating fully from 1st whistle to last. We don’t. We haven’t been played off the park by anyone, and yet we’ve collected a dismal amount of points. It’s not bad luck.
Last season for us it was play ok for the whole game, make no mistakes, and one good moment of play wins 3 points (e.g. Campbell’s goal in the derby game). This season it’s very similar play, but then we don’t win a basic front-post header at a set piece, pass straight to the opposition, have a moment of key-stone cops defending, and we’re 3-0 down to a Derby side who should be nowhere near that sort of scoreline on a visit to Bramall Lane.
We do not make it hard for teams to get goals against us. Cooper’s form isn’t fantastic; there are weaknesses in the back line; but fundamentally we make far too many mistakes and cough up easy goals that render any talk of systems or formations pointless.

He used to own up to the mistakes and called it how it was and how everyone saw it. "We don't get free headers in the box". Well Campbell did, unchallenged and headed over. He's very blinkered now and sees only what he wants to see.

Conceding straight from the kick off against Preston was bad. But you learn from your mistakes like we did throwing away a 3 goal lead at villa. Next game concede straight from the second half kick off again. It wasn't drilled in and learned from, that's on him and he never even mentioned that.

You could see from their first corner that it was a complete mismatch with who was marking who. Next corner same again and he scores. Peck lost him, but he shouldn't be assigned to one of the best headers and the physical presence Morris had. Prem defenders struggled with that. Did he learn and change it? Did he fuck. The next corner, Morris was inches away from scoring again.

That's the issue. He doesn't learn and deflects anything that is an issue as not a problem

 

[Keen Blade]

Also buggering off with 10 minutes to go is really going to help the team. Really good supporters aren't you.
It seems to me that a lot on here are just waiting for us to lose so they can stick it to Wilder.
We're desperately short of a big CF, say like the one at Wrexham.
No RFB either - and I suppose that's Wlder's fault as well.
People clamour for 2 up front, but You can only play 2 up front if you've got one big man - and we let him walk.
After failing yet again at a PO final (mainly due to a dodgy VAR decision) unsurprisingly we lost Souza , Anel, Moore, Choudhury,. Maybe if Wilder hadn't been sacked one or two may have been kept -who knows, but one thing's for sure Wilder would have had replacements lined up. No way on earth would he have had most of those who Selles recruited. He's now having to play with one hand tied behind his back.
If we can achieve mid table by end of December we might have a reasonable chance of attracting the players Wider needs in the hope of making the play offs

I've never seen anyone "bugger off" as fast as Wilder did down the tunnel at Wembley.
"if we can achieve mid-table by end of December"
Are you on substances ?
With the way Wilder sets up and instructs the team ?
Play out from the back against a hard press ?
Take half an hour to reach the halfway line and then - if you've kept the ball - work it back to the goalie for him to boot up to Campbell - who has never even jumped for a header in his life ?
Jesus Christ.
Go and rewatch the match and tell me how Wilder is planning we score a goal

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

There isn't a system that these players could be put in that would yield even semi consistent positive results.

They are clearly a limited squad. But I’m not sure I agree with this.

In Soumare, Peck, and (when fit) Davies we have midfielders who are more than capable of progressing the ball forward from central positions, as opposed to repetitive U-shaped tedium.

In Burrows, Brooks and Ogbene, and even Seriki, we have players who, given license, can run the wings to the by-line and get crosses in.

In One we have a physical striker who is at least worth trying as a target man off whom Campbell can play in a 2 up top. Alternatively, Ings, however decrepit, looks more or less adept at holding the ball up by burying his arse into defenders, per Billy Sharp, and laying it off to a partner.

None of the above might work, as a formal reorganisation of Wilder’s desperately dull, sterile ‘system’. But, given current dismal returns, variations of the above must at least be worth a go?

 

[1889]

In the last third of the pitch when attacking we are clueless

That’s true, but on nearly every occasion the two/three players who might be inclined to shoot at goal, have got in a position to do so. They are outnumbered by the opposition, who have got back in position, whilst we have been slowly meandering our way from the halfway line to their 18 yard box, by means of 30/40 short, first time passes. Which might look slick at Shirecliffe on a small pitch, but is hopelessly ineffective on Saturday afternoon on the full size version

 

[nopigfansintown]

They are clearly a limited squad. But I’m not sure I agree with this.

In Soumare, Peck, and (when fit) Davies we have midfielders who are more than capable of progressing the ball forward from central positions, as opposed to repetitive U-shaped tedium.

In Burrows, Brooks and Ogbene, and even Seriki, we have players who, given license, can run the wings to the by-line and get crosses in.

In One we have a physical striker who is at least worth trying as a target man off whom Campbell can play in a 2 up top. Alternatively, Ings, however decrepit, looks more or less adept at holding the ball up by burying his arse into defenders, per Billy Sharp, and laying it off to a partner.

None of the above might work, as a formal reorganisation of Wilder’s desperately dull, sterile ‘system’. But, given current dismal returns, variations of the above must at least be worth a go?

I agree on T Davies. Problem is he's a busted flush. Even if he becomes semi useful (has to be extremely doubtful at this point) he's not going to morph into a 2-3 games a week 60-90 minutes player. That's what we require before the JTW with the heavy schedule. Soumare , Peck and Matos don't have the tactical discipline out of possession to play the deep midfield role or progress the ball with vertical passes. Soumare carries it quite well so he's probably the least worst option in that respect, but the trade off is his complete lack of positional sense.

Arblaster, T Davies and Vini haven't been replaced with players with their skillset. Even btech versions. Our play out from the back is slow and laborious because they go back and square as befits their limited technical ability. The centre backs don't gave the football skills to help them out of that first press either. Tanganga has been disappointing in this respect. I expected more composure and line breaking passes/runs.

Burrows is s tough one. He really has to play as he's the only proven pedigree we have in a wide creative sense (either at full back or midfield/wide forward).. He did well off the bench, was started in the next game and was largely responsible for two goals conceded in the next game. Would I have started him again on Saturday despite laying more eggs? Yes, because we have no other proven quality attacking wide options. We just have to.hope it clicks at some point.

Brooks, Barry, Godfrey, Seriki etc are Hobson's choice. They aren't terrible squad options but they aren't first eleven in a half decent team and aren't matchday squad in a good one. Seriki has been a walking muscle injury since he broke into the team. Overall our wide options are extremely underwhelming. That said I'd probably play Seriki just to see something different and move Ogbene back when he gasses or gets injured.

Apart from Campbell (one game a week for an hour) we don't have a non desperation striker. Cannon has offered little, One is a babi, Ings is unfit and looks totally shot. If you play two you need at least three who you have a reasonable level of confidence in. Four really.

I have no faith in any centre back except Tanganga. Wilder should play him in his best position and let what will happen happen with the other centre back(s)/full backs. I feel that's the least worst option. The question then becomes do you pack the midfield or do you play the extra centre half?Hobson's choice.

If Gus was fit maybe we could give him more licence as Bergkamp type behind Campbell, but being as it is I'd try a four at the back and stick a lot of defensive midfielders types in there. I think they'd stop more goals than the three centre backs would.

If we had a decent goalkeeper in the squad I think it's obvious Cooper would be on the bench at this point. If he needs an op he'd have gone and had it done.

 

[Caveblade]

That’s true, but on nearly every occasion the two/three players who might be inclined to shoot at goal, have got in a position to do so. They are outnumbered by the opposition, who have got back in position, whilst we have been slowly meandering our way from the halfway line to their 18 yard box, by means of 30/40 short, first time passes. Which might look slick at Shirecliffe on a small pitch, but is hopelessly ineffective on Saturday afternoon on the full size version

I think we were could play the Par 5 at Brough in the time it takes this lot to get forward and that's with knackered middle aged knees!