FA Cup or Play-Offs

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Cup Final, or guaranteed promotion?

  • Total voters
    130
Silent Blade said:
Yes, they had won the league in the previous season. Cant think of anyone else who got relegated the season after they won the league. Ipswich were the closest to this as they won the league in 1962 and got relegated in 1964
Click to expand...

Leeds weren't a million miles off relegation in 1993, the season after they won the title, if I recall correctly.
 

Probably should have looked here before I voted in the Shout App question. Oh well. Tomorrow's another day!
 
jezzablade said:
Luck was not used in the mystical sense of divine spiritual or any other unworldly reason. It was used as a pure analogy of a situation. Preston very narrowly missed two crystal chances and hit the post. Anyone who has kicked a football hard towards a goal will know that sometimes they go in sometimes they hit the post sometimes they go wide. This is not for a reason due to poor play its because of the design of footballs and the small inaccuracies of a footballers leg when kicking it. Footballs are not snooker balls they move in the air, footballers don't take twenty backstrokes before hitting it they hit it towards the part of the goal the goalie has the most difficulty getting to it (the side). The luck part therefore is chance (the same as betting) as to whether it will go in or not. The same applies to glancing headers (probably more so in terms of accuracy). Therefore we were fortunate that none of the three excellent chances that Preston had did not go in, they were not due to excellent defending. However I'm pleased as punch that we were fortunate and got the clean sheet. We have not been fortunate for a long time both on and off the field and that includes the 10 game winning run which was done the hard way. Doyle's handball can be argued away I agree and was probably the reason why Harry's penalty wasn't given.
Click to expand...

No, sorry, that's no more convincing than last time you said it. I imagine you felt the same as you wrote it.

My word, we were really lucky that Van Persie wasn't playing for Preston. I do hope he isn't playing for any other teams we play this season, but that would be too fortunate for words.
 
Pinchy said:
No, sorry, that's no more convincing than last time you said it. I imagine you felt the same as you wrote it.

My word, we were really lucky that Van Persie wasn't playing for Preston. I do hope he isn't playing for any other teams we play this season, but that would be too fortunate for words.
Click to expand...

I would have to concede that if the Preston player that missed was as good as Van Persie he would probably have scored therefore your argument stands up. However you use the analogy of two golfers and I think it was Gary Player who coined the phrase. Gary Player was wrong as the more he practised the less luck was involved (the phrase was a tongue in cheek almost Oscar Wilde repost to someone who called him lucky for sinking a difficult putt). Therefore the further you depart from class / form and practise the more luck plays a part. For instance kiddies football, thankfully the kid or his parents in question are not Blades and will not see this, the kid with the least ability scored his only goal of the season (it ended up being the winner) by trying to dodge a cross turned his back, the ball hit the top of his backside and lobbed the goalie. I can't see a circumstance where that can be called anything but luck for both the player and his team. Therefore luck sometimes plays a part.
The Preston player that missed the two clear chances did not have luck on his side which would have meant that the headed ball had hit his head a millimetre to the right and therefore gone inside the post. Since luck plays a part and he didn't have this luck we therefore did. I'm not bothered to be honest most footballers call it rub of the green. Carlton Palmer recently put down the pigs purple patch down to a rub of the green citing the Reading footballer's dismissal after 10 mins which was then rescinded as getting the rub of the green. Luck.
 
jezzablade said:
I would have to concede that if the Preston player that missed was as good as Van Persie he would probably have scored therefore your argument stands up. However you use the analogy of two golfers and I think it was Gary Player who coined the phrase. Gary Player was wrong as the more he practised the less luck was involved (the phrase was a tongue in cheek almost Oscar Wilde repost to someone who called him lucky for sinking a difficult putt). Therefore the further you depart from class / form and practise the more luck plays a part. For instance kiddies football, thankfully the kid or his parents in question are not Blades and will not see this, the kid with the least ability scored his only goal of the season (it ended up being the winner) by trying to dodge a cross turned his back, the ball hit the top of his backside and lobbed the goalie. I can't see a circumstance where that can be called anything but luck for both the player and his team. Therefore luck sometimes plays a part.
The Preston player that missed the two clear chances did not have luck on his side which would have meant that the headed ball had hit his head a millimetre to the right and therefore gone inside the post. Since luck plays a part and he didn't have this luck we therefore did. I'm not bothered to be honest most footballers call it rub of the green. Carlton Palmer recently put down the pigs purple patch down to a rub of the green citing the Reading footballer's dismissal after 10 mins which was then rescinded as getting the rub of the green. Luck.
Click to expand...

I suppose that if you decide that luck exists no amount of rational discussion will persuade you otherwise.

As for the young lad who is not especially gifted at football, stuff like that happens. It may have amused those watching, but to ascribe this to what you call luck suggests a belief in some kind of nonsense that actually contributes to something happening.

Now I can imagine that a chance happening may have happened, but luck suggests something altogether different. It's fatalism of the worst kind, in that admitting to 'luck's' existence has as much substance or meaning as a lucky rabbit's foot. I suppose if carrying one of those around with you makes you feel optimistic then all well and good, but that's the extent of any benefit 'luck' brings.
 
itsinyerblood said:
I suppose that if you decide that luck exists no amount of rational discussion will persuade you otherwise.

As for the young lad who is not especially gifted at football, stuff like that happens. It may have amused those watching, but to ascribe this to what you call luck suggests a belief in some kind of nonsense that actually contributes to something happening.

Now I can imagine that a chance happening may have happened, but luck suggests something altogether different. It's fatalism of the worst kind, in that admitting to 'luck's' existence has as much substance or meaning as a lucky rabbit's foot. I suppose if carrying one of those around with you makes you feel optimistic then all well and good, but that's the extent of any benefit 'luck' brings.
Click to expand...

I think I clarified that in the last reply. I'm not saying its anything to do with anything mystic at all. I'm not talking about pissing in all four corners of the ground to stop a gypsy's curse I don't believe they exist. I think you are getting the entire wrong end of the stick. I think all that is bollocks.
Its chance as in gambling. Sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't. If you put your money on a one in six bet you may be the one in six that wins, you may not. That is all I was saying, on this occasion it didn't happen for the Preston player for him unfortunate, for us fortunate. It was fortunate three times. Great we got a point.
 
jezzablade said:
I think I clarified that in the last reply. I'm not saying its anything to do with anything mystic at all. I'm not talking about pissing in all four corners of the ground to stop a gypsy's curse I don't believe they exist. I think you are getting the entire wrong end of the stick. I think all that is bollocks.
Its chance as in gambling. Sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't. If you put your money on a one in six bet you may be the one in six that wins, you may not. That is all I was saying, on this occasion it didn't happen for the Preston player for him unfortunate, for us fortunate. It was fortunate three times. Great we got a point.
Click to expand...

Based on these two comments..."Therefore the further you depart from class/form and practise the more luck plays a part"...and..."Since luck plays a part and he didn't have this luck we therefore did", so I don't think I'm getting the wrong end of anything.

If you say you don't believe in luck, great. But please don't tell me I misunderstood. Based on your own comments you appear to believe that luck does exist. If you wish to say otherwise I'm fine with that, but all I did was repeat what you wrote which clarified nothing at all.
 
itsinyerblood said:
Based on these two comments..."Therefore the further you depart from class/form and practise the more luck plays a part"...and..."Since luck plays a part and he didn't have this luck we therefore did", so I don't think I'm getting the wrong end of anything.

If you say you don't believe in luck, great. But please don't tell me I misunderstood. Based on your own comments you appear to believe that luck does exist. If you wish to say otherwise I'm fine with that, but all I did was repeat what you wrote which clarified nothing at all.
Click to expand...

And how in either of those statements does mystic forces apply? Its still down to chance. Of course luck exists the person that wins the lottery is the lucky one they have beaten incredible odds, but it is chance not some mystic force. The closer a footballer gets a ball towards the side of the goal he has a chance of scoring or hitting the post or missing. In no way have I ever said that mystic forces / rabbits feet have anything to do with it. If you constantly feel that because I use the word luck meaning mystic then this is incorrect. You have really only demonstrated further that you don't understand what I'm talking about.

Luck is a fact if you are the one that gets the best prize in a tombola you are the lucky one not through a mystic force but that you happened to be the one that got it. That's what luck is.
 

jezzablade said:
And how in either of those statements does mystic forces apply? Its still down to chance. Of course luck exists the person that wins the lottery is the lucky one they have beaten incredible odds, but it is chance not some mystic force. The closer a footballer gets a ball towards the side of the goal he has a chance of scoring or hitting the post or missing. In no way have I ever said that mystic forces / rabbits feet have anything to do with it. If you constantly feel that because I use the word luck meaning mystic then this is incorrect. You have really only demonstrated further that you don't understand what I'm talking about.

Luck is a fact if you are the one that gets the best prize in a tombola you are the lucky one not through a mystic force but that you happened to be the one that got it. That's what luck is.
Click to expand...

No it isn't. I'm glad you agree that rabbit's feet and their like are pointless, at least we agree on that.

It's the fact that you constantly used luck that clouds this matter. Coincidence yes, but luck? Do me a favour.
 
itsinyerblood said:
No it isn't. I'm glad you agree that rabbit's feet and their like are pointless, at least we agree on that.

It's the fact that you constantly used luck that clouds this matter. Coincidence yes, but luck? Do me a favour.
Click to expand...

Lets have one last go and then that's it. Its getting a bit boring now.
Here is a definition for you;
Google Definition.
  1. luck
    success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.
    "it was just luck that the first kick went in"
Not coincidence. You don't win the lottery through coincidence you win it because you happen to have the numbers that come up after you have bought your ticket. Therefore chance.
 
itsinyerblood said:
No it isn't. I'm glad you agree that rabbit's feet and their like are pointless, at least we agree on that.

It's the fact that you constantly used luck that clouds this matter. Coincidence yes, but luck? Do me a favour.
Click to expand...

You're assuming that the definiton of the word "luck" one has to have a belief in supernatural forces. As Jezzablade shows in his definition, that's not what "luck" , in it's common usage. means at all.

If an opposition goalie had had a massive row with his wife on the morning of a game and was dwelling on said row and thus not concentrating when a shot came in which he should have saved but, in fact, let in, most people who knew all the facts would say that United were lucky to score that goal - meaning that factors outside their control were the main reason for the goal being scored.

Of course, like the Queen in Alice in Wonderland, you can have words to mean anything you like. However, it makes communicatioin difficult if you don't use them in the same way as most other people.
 
I was in a play on May 17th, just had to pull out just in case. Should the unthinkable happen I would have to be at Wembley. Apologies all round to my fellow thespians, who sort of understand, but don't really. I've never seen my team in an FA cup final in 56 years, season ticket for 50 years. If it did happen I doubt I would get another chance before my wooden overcoat time came. It's fair to say the Blades put me through some right hell.
 
dingledog said:
I was in a play on May 17th, just had to pull out just in case. Should the unthinkable happen I would have to be at Wembley. Apologies all round to my fellow thespians, who sort of understand, but don't really. I've never seen my team in an FA cup final in 56 years, season ticket for 50 years. If it did happen I doubt I would get another chance before my wooden overcoat time came. It's fair to say the Blades put me through some right hell.
Click to expand...

If we make the final, I'll be flying back from Japan especially for it...IF we make the final
 
dingledog said:
I was in a play on May 17th, just had to pull out just in case. Should the unthinkable happen I would have to be at Wembley. Apologies all round to my fellow thespians, who sort of understand, but don't really. I've never seen my team in an FA cup final in 56 years, season ticket for 50 years. If it did happen I doubt I would get another chance before my wooden overcoat time came. It's fair to say the Blades put me through some right hell.
Click to expand...

As I've said already, I will be touring around Italy on May 17th so no chance of being there. But that wouldn't stop me wanting the Blades to get there. For those of us of a particular age, the FA Cup Final was THE football event of the year. Yes, managers would talk of the marathon of the league showing the true ability and quality of a team, but there was a glamour and prestige in being involved at Wembley in May. For one thing, it was just about the only live football seen on TV; and BBC and ITV would milk it for all it was worth, starting coverage at about 09.30. Filling the day with all sorts of rubbish but all adding to the impression that this was a special, significant event. Also, it was a chance to win a trophy, which back then was the epitome of what the bleeding game was all about. Only the League Champions went into the European Cup (although through the late 70s, early 80s England always had two because English clubs kept winning it) with the next 3 placed teams going into the UEFA Cup with the FA Cup winners into the Cup Winners Cup. The Holy Grail wasn't a top 4 finish to qualify for the Champions League, so bollocks to everything else, the Holy Grail was to win a trophy and for glamour, kudos and sheer value, the FA Cup was THE trophy to get. It was also always the last game of the season. All league fixture were completed and then the season had this majestic, spectacular ending for the world to see at Wembley. A big definite full stop ending to the season. No limping on after with play-offs in a sort of wimpy Philip Glass fade-out type ending, this was a big bang Berlioz finale. All the country watched and every supporter across the land wished they could experience it with their team. Some supporters of teams like Rochdale, Stockport, Torquay knew these were forlorn hopes with no chance of really happening, but many others thought that one day they would get their chance, their day in the sunshine. And there has been over the years one team who never quite managed to get there when really they should have. The size of the club, the following, the history suggested that they would be gracing the hallowed turf at Wembley, but the years rolled by and they never got there. A whole generation has never seen them reach a major final. A generation now into their middle years, sat as children and young adults watching this TV spectacular every year wishing that they could do that with their team. Growing to young adulthood and recognising the history and ritual of it all and wanting a part of it, but it never happened.

So, if the unthinkable happens come May, and the fans of that club finally get there; allow those of us who belong to that generation and older to rekindle our youth, to conjure the ghost of David Coleman and to shed our tears at what you might think is unnecessary nonsense such as Abide With Me. Somewhere in Italy if that day happens, will be a teary old Blade!
 
jezzablade said:
Lets have one last go and then that's it. Its getting a bit boring now.
Here is a definition for you;
Google Definition.
  1. luck
    success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.
    "it was just luck that the first kick went in"
Not coincidence. You don't win the lottery through coincidence you win it because you happen to have the numbers that come up after you have bought your ticket. Therefore chance.
Click to expand...

jezzablade, yes, this has become a bit circular. To be honest, as long as I know what I mean, and you know what you mean, that's all that matters. I think we're splitting hairs, when upon examination I guess we mean the same thing but with different takes on this meaning.
 
Darren said:
You're assuming that the definiton of the word "luck" one has to have a belief in supernatural forces. As Jezzablade shows in his definition, that's not what "luck" , in it's common usage. means at all.

If an opposition goalie had had a massive row with his wife on the morning of a game and was dwelling on said row and thus not concentrating when a shot came in which he should have saved but, in fact, let in, most people who knew all the facts would say that United were lucky to score that goal - meaning that factors outside their control were the main reason for the goal being scored.

Of course, like the Queen in Alice in Wonderland, you can have words to mean anything you like. However, it makes communicatioin difficult if you don't use them in the same way as most other people.
Click to expand...

Darren, "However, it makes communicatioin difficult if you don't use them (words) in the same way as most other people".

Interesting point Darren. You would hope there'd be a common expectation about most words and language in general. Trouble is, it's a shifting landscape. It seems that the use of the word sick, that I was brought up to understand meant feeling unwell or behaviour that was repugnant, now has an altogether different meaning amongst a younger generation. I've no problem as such with that, other than I'd probably adhere to a set of historically held basics about language, in which I'd also include punctuation and correct grammar, if I was attempting to communicate with someone else.

Now I get things wrong as much as the next man, being self-taught brings with it another layer of struggle that I won't go into here. But there are reasons for these rules of written language to be upheld. It's not just about being a stickler for literal correctness, it's more to do with having what you might also refer to as a fondness for a language that is rich and expressive, and anything that corrupts this devalues the language we all use.

Don't misunderstand me, if we take a forum like this, the message is the most important thing, and if there are a few corruptions of language who really cares? I often write when I'm either tired or in a degree of pain, so this sometimes affects my attention to detail. Maybe other people on here have the same problems. What can happen, as appears to be the case with jezza and myself, is that the minutiae gets pulled apart and you're left with.....?
 
jezzablade said:
Lets have one last go and then that's it. Its getting a bit boring now.
Here is a definition for you;
Google Definition.
  1. luck
    success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.
    "it was just luck that the first kick went in"
Not coincidence. You don't win the lottery through coincidence you win it because you happen to have the numbers that come up after you have bought your ticket. Therefore chance.
Click to expand...

itsinyerblood said:
jezzablade, yes, this has become a bit circular. To be honest, as long as I know what I mean, and you know what you mean, that's all that matters. I think we're splitting hairs, when upon examination I guess we mean the same thing but with different takes on this meaning.
Click to expand...

Lets just hope we're lucky enough to get to the final eh lads?
 
SouthEssexBlade said:
As I've said already, I will be touring around Italy on May 17th so no chance of being there. But that wouldn't stop me wanting the Blades to get there. For those of us of a particular age, the FA Cup Final was THE football event of the year. Yes, managers would talk of the marathon of the league showing the true ability and quality of a team, but there was a glamour and prestige in being involved at Wembley in May. For one thing, it was just about the only live football seen on TV; and BBC and ITV would milk it for all it was worth, starting coverage at about 09.30. Filling the day with all sorts of rubbish but all adding to the impression that this was a special, significant event. Also, it was a chance to win a trophy, which back then was the epitome of what the bleeding game was all about. Only the League Champions went into the European Cup (although through the late 70s, early 80s England always had two because English clubs kept winning it) with the next 3 placed teams going into the UEFA Cup with the FA Cup winners into the Cup Winners Cup. The Holy Grail wasn't a top 4 finish to qualify for the Champions League, so bollocks to everything else, the Holy Grail was to win a trophy and for glamour, kudos and sheer value, the FA Cup was THE trophy to get. It was also always the last game of the season. All league fixture were completed and then the season had this majestic, spectacular ending for the world to see at Wembley. A big definite full stop ending to the season. No limping on after with play-offs in a sort of wimpy Philip Glass fade-out type ending, this was a big bang Berlioz finale. All the country watched and every supporter across the land wished they could experience it with their team. Some supporters of teams like Rochdale, Stockport, Torquay knew these were forlorn hopes with no chance of really happening, but many others thought that one day they would get their chance, their day in the sunshine. And there has been over the years one team who never quite managed to get there when really they should have. The size of the club, the following, the history suggested that they would be gracing the hallowed turf at Wembley, but the years rolled by and they never got there. A whole generation has never seen them reach a major final. A generation now into their middle years, sat as children and young adults watching this TV spectacular every year wishing that they could do that with their team. Growing to young adulthood and recognising the history and ritual of it all and wanting a part of it, but it never happened.

So, if the unthinkable happens come May, and the fans of that club finally get there; allow those of us who belong to that generation and older to rekindle our youth, to conjure the ghost of David Coleman and to shed our tears at what you might think is unnecessary nonsense such as Abide With Me. Somewhere in Italy if that day happens, will be a teary old Blade!
Click to expand...

There's a tear in my eye. Thankyou for summing up our feelings so well - at least from this member of that generation.

EDIT: Thas dun mi. I will spare a thought for you on that day.
 
Last edited:

itsinyerblood said:
Oi! And there you have upped the inclusion of something as jazzy as shitwaspery to levels that ought to become a part of the lexicon of hipster vocabulary. So SEB, on with your sunglasses, zoot suit, saxophone in hand, and let's have a ditty dedicated to the word.
Click to expand...

I have to say in all seriousness, our differences apart, that your prose are very entertaining.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Nick Jansky
  • Poll Poll
Would you prefer a trophy or a European campaign?
2
Replies
50
Views
3K
Gimli
Gimli
blade too long
Millwall could still help us
Replies
8
Views
1K
blade too long
blade too long
CaptainMorgans
  • Poll Poll
Non-Attending Play-Off Blades
8 9 10
Replies
282
Views
23K
CaptainMorgans
CaptainMorgans
R
Have we been spoilt recently as a fanbase?
2 3
Replies
65
Views
4K
metalblade
metalblade
Fjortoft's Aeroplane
  • Poll Poll
Auto Promotion vs play the Pigs in Play-Off Final
2 3
Replies
60
Views
4K
FTPE
FTPE

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom