Andre Brooks

[AWetFlannel]

Wildersaurus at his best. Presumably Brooks wasn't thundering into tackles like Back Off Jack would have been.

Selles has spoken in an even more serious tone about the standard and intensity expected in training. I assume he won't be labelled a dinosaur if he decides Brooks isn't training well enough though...

 

[metalblade]

Towards the end of last season Wilder was like Keir Starmer, you couldn't believe a word he said.

 

[Balham]

Selles has spoken in an even more serious tone about the standard and intensity expected in training. I assume he won't be labelled a dinosaur if he decides Brooks isn't training well enough though...

Sellés has also spoken in depth about the technical and tactical improvements he works on with both individuals and the collective. I suspect training will look very different this season.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Sellés has also spoken in depth about the technical and tactical improvements he works on with both individuals and the collective. I suspect training will look very different this season.

So it's Wilder's fault that Brooks was the only player who didn't fancy giving 100% in training. Selles has spoken about technical and tactical details (which presumably Wilder is incapable of) and this will interest Brooks enough to make him listen, or somert?

The bias is unreal.

 

[Bladesthorpe]

Towards the end of last season Wilder was like Keir Starmer, you couldn't believe a word he said.

Starmer is bright enough to to admit when he's made a bollocks of something and changes it, I'm sad to say Chris wouldn't.

 

[dc_blade]

Wilder said in a press conference that he hadn't been training well, or subtler words to that effect.

Given how Selles has spoken about intensity in training, it won't go down well with him either. Let's hope he's at it in training this season and gives himself a chance.

Generally speaking I’m inclined to trust the manager’s opinion on this because he sees what goes on behind the scenes and I don’t.

But if Brooks consistently looks like one of our most dangerous players when he’s on the pitch, isn’t that the most important thing?

 

[AWetFlannel]

Generally speaking I’m inclined to trust the manager’s opinion on this because he sees what goes on behind the scenes and I don’t.

But if Brooks consistently looks like one of our most dangerous players when he’s on the pitch, isn’t that the most important thing?

It's a tough decision if that's the case: you either set a bad example by allowing players that aren't performing in training to start games which risks more players lowering their standards, or drop a player that's getting you results on the pitch.

However, I don't think this was the case. He was trying to displace JRS and BBD, both of whom have more experience and pedigree than him. I think both are better players right now, though Brooks has undoubted potential. Had it been Brooks or Ben Osborn/Slimane/Ben Woodburn, you actually have a dilemma.

 

[dc_blade]

It's a tough decision if that's the case: you either set a bad example by allowing players that aren't performing in training to start games which risks more players lowering their standards, or drop a player that's getting you results on the pitch.

However, I don't think this was the case. He was trying to displace JRS and BBD, both of whom have more experience and pedigree than him. I think both are better players right now, though Brooks has undoubted potential. Had it been Brooks or Ben Osborn/Slimane/Ben Woodburn, you actually have a dilemma.

Three goals and two assists in less than 1,000 minutes played is something like 0.5 goal involvements per 90, which makes him one of the most dangerous attacking players we had. Defensive stats were among the best in the division for a player in his position. I don’t think the comparison to players like Osborn and Slimane is helpful. To my eyes he offered a lot more than BBD did and he was also our player not a loanee.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Three goals and two assists in less than 1,000 minutes played is something like 0.5 goal involvements per 90, which makes him one of the most dangerous attacking players we had. Defensive stats were among the best in the division for a player in his position. I don’t think the comparison to players like Osborn and Slimane is helpful. To my eyes he offered a lot more than BBD did and he was also our player not a loanee.

I'm not comparing him to those players, just suggesting that if they were his competition he'd be starting.

To my eyes he was more hit and miss than the alternatives. More fans wanted JRS or BBD starting over him for the majority of the season, and the management team agreed. If you're suggesting that Brooks is comfortably a better player than JRS and BBD then I'm surprised. (Without adding in his training issues)

 

[1987]

Not consistently playing Rak Sakyi or Brooks on the wing was probably one of my biggest frustrations last year. Would have also liked to see more of Brooks on the left.

Brooks was amazing at the start of the season, thought probably a bit unlucky to get dropped for JRS at the time. After that though Brooks went through a dip, maybe confidence related, but he dropped off for a time and didn't exactly look like he should be starting.

Think he is a confidence player, and would hope he gets a good run on the right (or left) this season.

I do recall that it was CW who actually brought him into the team when he came back, and gave him the opportunity. Just saying.

 

[dc_blade]

I'm not comparing him to those players, just suggesting that if they were his competition he'd be starting.

To my eyes he was more hit and miss than the alternatives. More fans wanted JRS or BBD starting over him for the majority of the season, and the management team agreed. If you're suggesting that Brooks is comfortably a better player than JRS and BBD then I'm surprised. (Without adding in his training issues)

I wouldn't say he was comfortably better than either of them, although I thought BBD was really pretty poor after February. But he looked good enough to deserve more minutes in a side that was really struggling in an attacking sense. Him being a young player we actually owned, with the sort of physical attributes that Premier League teams value, for me added to the importance of giving him the game time to develop.

Maybe Selles will give him more minutes and he'll prove to be too inconsistent or not good enough and Wilder will be vindicated--he's got a lot right! I just liked the look of Brooks and wanted to see more of him.

 

[AWetFlannel]

I wouldn't say he was comfortably better than either of them, although I thought BBD was really pretty poor after February. But he looked good enough to deserve more minutes in a side that was really struggling in an attacking sense. Him being a young player we actually owned, with the sort of physical attributes that Premier League teams value, for me added to the importance of giving him the game time to develop.

Maybe Selles will give him more minutes and he'll prove to be too inconsistent or not good enough and Wilder will be vindicated--he's got a lot right! I just liked the look of Brooks and wanted to see more of him.

With us challenging for promotion, I suppose we should expect that short term results will be prioritised over player development. As fans though, I'm with you in enjoying seeing our own talent develop.

Thought BBD was poor overall, besides a few good moments. His pedigree at this level and performances for us last season in the PL clearly influenced Wilder, hoping he'd recover that form that he's certainly capable of.

I think Wilder rated Brooks, he gave him loads of minutes in the PL and clearly sees something in him. I hope he gets a good chance this season under Selles and adds to our growing list of academy gems.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

So it's Wilder's fault that Brooks was the only player who didn't fancy giving 100% in training. Selles has spoken about technical and tactical details (which presumably Wilder is incapable of) and this will interest Brooks enough to make him listen, or somert?

The bias is unreal.

The bias works both way incidentally.

 

[Balham]

So it's Wilder's fault that Brooks was the only player who didn't fancy giving 100% in training. Selles has spoken about technical and tactical details (which presumably Wilder is incapable of) and this will interest Brooks enough to make him listen, or somert?

The bias is unreal.

Indeed.

 

[AWetFlannel]

The bias works both way incidentally.

Indeed.

Any examples of it in the other direction from me in this thread? The new post today suggested that his lack of effort in training was just a rumour that's been disproven by some ITKs on this forum? Does that not want some push back?

 

[Blade45]

Any examples of it in the other direction from me in this thread? The new post today suggested that his lack of effort in training was just a rumour that's been disproven by some ITKs on this forum? Does that not want some push back?

I didn’t say it was a rumour, I don’t see him train so how could I know, but I did find it surprising, knowing everything I know about him + the personal accounts of ITKs on this thread.

CW knows more about how he trains than I do, my comment wasn’t meant to discredit him but rather express shock. He does seem like a good lad and to hear he’s been (apparently) taking the piss slightly in training was disheartening.

 

[Cheeky Blade]

I’d suggest the Wilder-Brooks conundrum was a clash of personalities, which obviously the player is always going to come out on the wrong side of…these things happen.

We certainly need to change from the ‘full-on’ style of training sessions under Wilder because as others have commented we seemed fucked after 60 minutes and injury prone.

UTB

 

[Beans]

I'm not massively high on Brooks vs eg Arblaster, but I have to say if this was the stat report on a player we were about to sign, I'd be extremely excited:



Hoping we see more of him next season. I have no idea what he's like in training but I saw him a few times for the U21s last season (2023/24), after he'd made his PL debut and been given a new contract, and he certainly wasn't half-arsing it - really put a shift in even at that level.

 

[AWetFlannel]

I didn’t say it was a rumour, I don’t see him train so how could I know, but I did find it surprising, knowing everything I know about him + the personal accounts of ITKs on this thread.

CW knows more about how he trains than I do, my comment wasn’t meant to discredit him but rather express shock. He does seem like a good lad and to hear he’s been (apparently) taking the piss slightly in training was disheartening.

Apologies if I've misrepresented you. It was this section:

"but I recall there being a narrative that he was a lazy bastard in training, although posters in this very thread have discredited that. I've never seen him train, of course, but he seems a down-to-earth, affable chap, so I did have to raise my eyebrows at people saying he was lazy and didn't train hard enough."

It read to me as though it was merely a narrative and that "people" were saying it, rather than the manager himself.

 

[Blade45]

Apologies if I've misrepresented you. It was this section:

"but I recall there being a narrative that he was a lazy bastard in training, although posters in this very thread have discredited that. I've never seen him train, of course, but he seems a down-to-earth, affable chap, so I did have to raise my eyebrows at people saying he was lazy and didn't train hard enough."

It read to me as though it was merely a narrative and that "people" were saying it, rather than the manager himself.

Yeah it is worded weirdly, that’s on me. I meant ‘raise my eyebrows’ as a way of saying ‘express shock at’. And I did know where it came from, CW likely knows better than all of us regarding how he trains.

I just found it rather surprising he was lazy. Not meant to discredit CW but that’s how I felt.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Any examples of it in the other direction from me in this thread? The new post today suggested that his lack of effort in training was just a rumour that's been disproven by some ITKs on this forum? Does that not want some push back?

You can push back on whatever you like, but to simply accept one version on face value whilst not affording the other the same shows a bias.
I know some regular first teamers weren’t happy with the manager and his approach with some of the other players, I also know some players were clearly dead on their feet after 70 mins yet would play week after week. Some of those would play regardless of form whereas others would quickly be dropped.
We all saw the evidence of those last two statements ourselves so I think to accept one player wasn’t training hard enough when everyone else was, raises questions.

 

[AWetFlannel]

You can push back on whatever you like, but to simply accept one version on face value whilst not affording the other the same shows a bias.
I know some regular first teamers weren’t happy with the manager and his approach with some of the other players, I also know some players were clearly dead on their feet after 70 mins yet would play week after week. Some of those would play regardless of form whereas others would quickly be dropped.
We all saw the evidence of those last two statements ourselves so I think to accept one player wasn’t training hard enough when everyone else was, raises questions.

One version is the testimony of the manager, has Brooks come out and said any different? I mean no disrespect, but do you believe everyone who claims to be ITK on the internet? Your claims of players being disgruntled don't even directly contradict Wilder's claims about Brooks in training. I'm not being showing bias regarding two equivalent bits of evidence, I just don't trust ITK claims over a plausible statement by the manager.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

One version is the testimony of the manager, has Brooks come out and said any different? I mean no disrespect, but do you believe everyone who claims to be ITK on the internet? Your claims of players being disgruntled don't even directly contradict Wilder's claims about Brooks in training. I'm not being showing bias regarding two equivalent bits of evidence, I just don't trust ITK claims over a plausible statement by the manager.

You don’t believe my claim of feedback from a player, that’s fine, you don’t have to.
Interestingly you also don’t give credibility to those that seem to have similar stories too.
Personally when it comes to gossip I tend to weight credibility against the poster and if some of the regular/established posters on here say they were told something I’d generally believe they were.
You’d believe the manager without question, which is your right. But it’s worth saying there were many occasions last season where he was less than accurate with the truth to suit the message he wanted to get out.

 

[MayorOJC]

I'm not massively high on Brooks vs eg Arblaster, but I have to say if this was the stat report on a player we were about to sign, I'd be extremely excited:

View attachment 214956

Hoping we see more of him next season. I have no idea what he's like in training but I saw him a few times for the U21s last season (2023/24), after he'd made his PL debut and been given a new contract, and he certainly wasn't half-arsing it - really put a shift in even at that level.

This excites me about Brooks too. One of the best crossing accuracy in the league - despite playing most of the season crossing on his weaker right foot.

 

[AWetFlannel]

You don’t believe my claim of feedback from a player. That’s fine, you don’t have to.
Interestingly you also don’t gift credibility to those that seem to have similar stories too.
Personally when it comes to gossip I tend to weight credibility against the poster and if some of the regular/established posters on here say they were told something I’d generally believe they were.

I'm probably just not attentive enough to who is posting what on this forum. I've not seen anyone else making these claims (or I've forgotten) and I don't know that anyone is genuinely ITK about the players. I don't mean to suggest anything about your credibility.

It's just first hand information (the manager, who was there, said he'd not trained well) against someone I know nothing about with second hand information which doesn't even necessarily contradict the first hand information.

 

[Beans]

View attachment 214958

This excites me about Brooks too. One of the best crossing accuracy in the league - despite playing most of the season crossing on his weaker right foot.

That's from a tiny amount of crosses to be clear (16 according to FBRef). Better than being wildly inaccurate from a small sample of course, but it's still only 6 accurate crosses in total so hard to draw many conclusions. But yeah, lots of "green bars" from 1000 minutes is usually a case for getting more minutes!

 

[Tarqs]

I'm not massively high on Brooks vs eg Arblaster, but I have to say if this was the stat report on a player we were about to sign, I'd be extremely excited:

View attachment 214956

Hoping we see more of him next season. I have no idea what he's like in training but I saw him a few times for the U21s last season (2023/24), after he'd made his PL debut and been given a new contract, and he certainly wasn't half-arsing it - really put a shift in even at that level.

Those numbers are just noise and nonsense

But they back up my thoughts. He was as good as (actually better imo) at the defensive side of things than either of his compeitiors for that position and his progressiveness with the ball was all as good as any.

The fact we stuck with BBD who was piss poor for 3 months tells me a lot. Blind faith.

 

[Colombia Blade]

Looked pretty good last season. A bit raw like others have said but I also like his ability to get back and help the defence - Vini made 3.5 tackles per 90 mins, Brooks made 3.3 making him the second highest tackler of the regular players. That could be fantastic down the left allowing Burrows to bomb forward confident he'll be covered by Brooks. On the same note, would be happy for Brooks to play LCM if we play 3 in midfield as well

 

[Nick Jansky]

With us challenging for promotion, I suppose we should expect that short term results will be prioritised over player development. As fans though, I'm with you in enjoying seeing our own talent develop.

I’m hoping that we now have a manager who isn’t happy to see us dumped out of the cups at the earliest opportunity. That will give more development opportunities to players. And who doesn’t love a good cup run.

 

[Bladesman101]

People having another pop at wilder, brooks had a lot of chances last season where he was truly abysmal. He then showed flashes of quality again towards the end of the season.

Really like brooks, hope he can have a big season, also hope he won’t be the only brooks at the lane next season as it seems he’s on the move.