I hope Sheffield United don't come to regret this

[Bradfordblade]

So now we know that Chris Wilder is about to be replaced. All the views about Wilder both for and against have been discussed at length and I get arguments on both sides. But in the end this sems to be to be a very high risk decision. It is revealing to see comments from supporters of other clubs (who are more able to look at this objectively), calling this madness. The only way this decision would make any sense for me is if there had been a complete breakdown in relationship between board and manager and a huge bust up. However, according to Danny Hall and others this is not the case. There has been no fall out.

From a financial point of view this must be very expensive. From a football point of view it could be argued as reckless. OK, there are legitimate crticisms of Chris's selections, style of play and tactics but last season was still a good season, especially considering where we were pre - season. Any recruitment plans already made for next season will be torn up and we start again. Current squad members may now be seen as easy targets. We could lose some key players because of this other than Hamer, Souza and Anel. I can understand an argument that says we need a new approach and to freshen up things but the existing approach didn't do too badly last season did it? I can't think of anyone better qualified or better placed to lead the team next season than Chris Wilder and I would have preferred the board to have shown him some loyalty and stuck with him.

I have seen some comments on this forum that have been very disrespectful to Chris Wilder. Every supporter should remember where we were at the end of the Adkins season and the impact that Chris had over the next few years. Yes, he has got things wrong but he has stabilised the club twice and been our best manager in my lifetime ( and that includes Dave Bassett and John Harris). Chris should go with the heartfelt thanks of every Unitedite. I wish Selles well if he is to be Chris's successor. I hope he is an inspired choice and that this move from the board proves to be a stroke of genius. I hope I am completely wrong but I fear this day could be one that United regret for a long time.

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

It's a big gamble at a time when all we needed to do was play it fairly safe. My gut feeling is that we will indeed regret this. We won't always be in the highly advantageous position we are now. Fail this season, and it only gets harder, barring an unexpected level of financial backing

 

[jt64]

It's a big gamble at a time when all we needed to do was play it fairly safe.

And when "playing it safe" (i.e. maintaining the status quo) sees >2 of the three relegated teams pissing the league, our results reverting back to expectation rather than, as widely suspected last season, running well above expectation, and we get to November and we're in a dogfight for the playoff spots, what then? Can we have the five months wasted not implementing the new owners' preferred football operations structure back at that point?

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

And when "playing it safe" (i.e. maintaining the status quo) sees >2 of the three relegated teams pissing the league, our results reverting back to expectation rather than, as widely suspected last season, running well above expectation, and we get to November and we're in a dogfight for the playoff spots, what then? Can we have the five months wasted not implementing the new owners' preferred football operations structure back at that point?

If performances indicate a repeat of last season's failure then make a change. Even if in 4th or 5th place. The safe approach - making obvious top end championship signings - would then ensure any incoming manager has the squad required to get the job done

 

[jt64]

If performances indicate a repeat of last season's failure then make a change. Even if in 4th or 5th place. The safe approach - making obvious top end championship signings - would then ensure any incoming manager has the squad required to get the job done

So, not only do we repeat the mistakes we've already made, we also repeat a transfer strategy we know does not work for where we want to get to. With you now.

 

[grena blade]

I'm a big wilder fan and been watching united for 40yrs but found this season so boring , but I do question myself is it just football that's changed and I'm getting an old ****

 

[MosboroughBlade]

So now we know that Chris Wilder is about to be replaced. All the views about Wilder both for and against have been discussed at length and I get arguments on both sides. But in the end this sems to be to be a very high risk decision. It is revealing to see comments from supporters of other clubs (who are more able to look at this objectively), calling this madness. The only way this decision would make any sense for me is if there had been a complete breakdown in relationship between board and manager and a huge bust up. However, according to Danny Hall and others this is not the case. There has been no fall out.

From a financial point of view this must be very expensive. From a football point of view it could be argued as reckless. OK, there are legitimate crticisms of Chris's selections, style of play and tactics but last season was still a good season, especially considering where we were pre - season. Any recruitment plans already made for next season will be torn up and we start again. Current squad members may now be seen as easy targets. We could lose some key players because of this other than Hamer, Souza and Anel. I can understand an argument that says we need a new approach and to freshen up things but the existing approach didn't do too badly last season did it? I can't think of anyone better qualified or better placed to lead the team next season than Chris Wilder and I would have preferred the board to have shown him some loyalty and stuck with him.

I have seen some comments on this forum that have been very disrespectful to Chris Wilder. Every supporter should remember where we were at the end of the Adkins season and the impact that Chris had over the next few years. Yes, he has got things wrong but he has stabilised the club twice and been our best manager in my lifetime ( and that includes Dave Bassett and John Harris). Chris should go with the heartfelt thanks of every Unitedite. I wish Selles well if he is to be Chris's successor. I hope he is an inspired choice and that this move from the board proves to be a stroke of genius. I hope I am completely wrong but I fear this day could be one that United regret for a long time.

Great post pal but not a patch on gentleman John.

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

So, not only do we repeat the mistakes we've already made, we also repeat a transfer strategy we know does not work for where we want to get to. With you now.

The 'mistakes we've already made' led to 92 points whether you like it or not. The 'mistakes we've already made' have seen us maintain a place near the top of the championship in every recent season. And if you want a chance of going up...... you've got to be near the top

No transfer strategy in the championship will realistically prepare you fully for the PL. That depends on recruitment once promoted. Unless you think every signing can be some brilliant 21 year old Dane for 2.5m who hits all the data metrics who all the other clubs just happen to have missed

 

[steve26272]

For balance, the board -
Spend £10m on a player that worsens the team
Fall from 1st to 3rd then lose PO final
Payout £500k in fines created by the ‘culture’
Become a club everyone loves to hate due to managers antics
See manager pick JLT every week despite funding a proven EPL defenders wages
See teams like Hull Plymouth and Oxford have a better game plan despite been relegation contenders
turgid football when even a win is a tough watch most games
manager pissed up on a pub table singing
manager wants Oli Mac back, you want data driven global recruitment strategy

To then keep this manager, is that not equally high risk?

Definition of insanity

 

[Zipwire]

For balance, the board -
Spend £10m on a player that worsens the team
Fall from 1st to 3rd then lose PO final
Payout £500k in fines created by the ‘culture’
Become a club everyone loves to hate due to managers antics
See manager pick JLT every week despite funding a proven EPL defenders wages
See teams like Hull Plymouth and Oxford have a better game plan despite been relegation contenders
turgid football when even a win is a tough watch most games
manager pissed up on a pub table singing
manager wants Oli Mac back, you want data driven global recruitment strategy

To then keep this manager, is that not equally high risk?

Definition of insanity

For balance that is the counter ballast to the arguments that the club is making a huge mistake in letting Chris Wilder go.

I see both sides of the argument, he has steadied the ship after a catastrophic season in the PL, rebuilt a new team in the process and just missed out on promotion via the play offs. But the other side is the one you’ve just illustrated.

I thought he deserved another crack but at the start of the season he needed to be put on notice that any more very expensive dud signings or anything less than Promotion would mean he would be on his way.

 

[JayGreen17]

So now we know that Chris Wilder is about to be replaced. All the views about Wilder both for and against have been discussed at length and I get arguments on both sides. But in the end this sems to be to be a very high risk decision. It is revealing to see comments from supporters of other clubs (who are more able to look at this objectively), calling this madness. The only way this decision would make any sense for me is if there had been a complete breakdown in relationship between board and manager and a huge bust up. However, according to Danny Hall and others this is not the case. There has been no fall out.

From a financial point of view this must be very expensive. From a football point of view it could be argued as reckless. OK, there are legitimate crticisms of Chris's selections, style of play and tactics but last season was still a good season, especially considering where we were pre - season. Any recruitment plans already made for next season will be torn up and we start again. Current squad members may now be seen as easy targets. We could lose some key players because of this other than Hamer, Souza and Anel. I can understand an argument that says we need a new approach and to freshen up things but the existing approach didn't do too badly last season did it? I can't think of anyone better qualified or better placed to lead the team next season than Chris Wilder and I would have preferred the board to have shown him some loyalty and stuck with him.

I have seen some comments on this forum that have been very disrespectful to Chris Wilder. Every supporter should remember where we were at the end of the Adkins season and the impact that Chris had over the next few years. Yes, he has got things wrong but he has stabilised the club twice and been our best manager in my lifetime ( and that includes Dave Bassett and John Harris). Chris should go with the heartfelt thanks of every Unitedite. I wish Selles well if he is to be Chris's successor. I hope he is an inspired choice and that this move from the board proves to be a stroke of genius. I hope I am completely wrong but I fear this day could be one that United regret for a long time.

Objective views from other fans outside the club are meaningless, they didn’t have to sit through the turgid season we had to then a total collapse. If you get under the skin of last season it’s laid to bare that Wilder had to go, not only for football reasons but also for repetitional ones too, his conduct was appalling and that then also reflected onto the team who also showed bad behaviour on the pitch, he lost a lot of respect also at Wembley again rushing through the back door. It’s totally time to move on and I’m delighted that we’re going to have a fresh start.

 

[wak1889]

It's really not that big a gamble, the board have probably looked at it objectively and thought well we gave him funds to strengthen in January and he didn't succeed in getting us up, they will have looked at the playing staff and thought we have the nucleus of a very good championship team, but in terms of performance the manager wasn't getting the best from them, and they feel that a new man can do this, they will also have noted being Americans how important the playoffs are to promotion and it won't have gone unnoticed that a team that finished 24 points behind the top 2 got promoted whilst a team that finished 32 points behind the top 2 made the playoffs, so whilst there may not be that kind of chasm again they are fully aware that there is room for error in getting promotion and peaking at the right time is key, Wilder was always going to be replaced if we went up, but they have now taken a calculated risk and done it without the promotion party

 

[Sithblade]

It'll be interesting to see what they do if by November we're well off the play offs positions, similar to the Robson and Slav seasons.
Both those times we were coming off relegation, but replacing a manager who's just finished 3rd, did the double over our rivals and we can question why should Selles be given any more time?

 

[Red Hot Currie]

So now we know that Chris Wilder is about to be replaced. All the views about Wilder both for and against have been discussed at length and I get arguments on both sides. But in the end this sems to be to be a very high risk decision. It is revealing to see comments from supporters of other clubs (who are more able to look at this objectively), calling this madness. The only way this decision would make any sense for me is if there had been a complete breakdown in relationship between board and manager and a huge bust up. However, according to Danny Hall and others this is not the case. There has been no fall out.

From a financial point of view this must be very expensive. From a football point of view it could be argued as reckless. OK, there are legitimate crticisms of Chris's selections, style of play and tactics but last season was still a good season, especially considering where we were pre - season. Any recruitment plans already made for next season will be torn up and we start again. Current squad members may now be seen as easy targets. We could lose some key players because of this other than Hamer, Souza and Anel. I can understand an argument that says we need a new approach and to freshen up things but the existing approach didn't do too badly last season did it? I can't think of anyone better qualified or better placed to lead the team next season than Chris Wilder and I would have preferred the board to have shown him some loyalty and stuck with him.

I have seen some comments on this forum that have been very disrespectful to Chris Wilder. Every supporter should remember where we were at the end of the Adkins season and the impact that Chris had over the next few years. Yes, he has got things wrong but he has stabilised the club twice and been our best manager in my lifetime ( and that includes Dave Bassett and John Harris). Chris should go with the heartfelt thanks of every Unitedite. I wish Selles well if he is to be Chris's successor. I hope he is an inspired choice and that this move from the board proves to be a stroke of genius. I hope I am completely wrong but I fear this day could be one that United regret for a long time.

Good post Bradford Blade. You express how I feel about all of this. Yes, last season ended in disappointment, the football wasn't great (often enough) and Wilder let himself down on occasions. But I agree, this is a massive, massive gamble.... none of the names touted as a replacement fill me with any hope. Selles' record is really uninspiring and I'm really not sure at all that he's the guy to replace Wilder. We've wasted more money and time as a club in the close season (yet again) and we're apparently about to take a leap into the unknown. Personally, I dont think there are enough solid reasons for us to do that... but it's all about opinions and judgements isn't it? At the end of the day the only opinions and judgements that count are those of the people who own the club - whether we like it or not. The jury is very much out on them for me. I'm concerned, like you, that this is going to prove a big mistake. Hope I'm wrong and that I'll be celebrating many a victory next season (albeit with slices of humble pie!!!). UTB forever.

 

[SwissBlade]

So now we know that Chris Wilder is about to be replaced. All the views about Wilder both for and against have been discussed at length and I get arguments on both sides. But in the end this sems to be to be a very high risk decision. It is revealing to see comments from supporters of other clubs (who are more able to look at this objectively), calling this madness. The only way this decision would make any sense for me is if there had been a complete breakdown in relationship between board and manager and a huge bust up. However, according to Danny Hall and others this is not the case. There has been no fall out.

From a financial point of view this must be very expensive. From a football point of view it could be argued as reckless. OK, there are legitimate crticisms of Chris's selections, style of play and tactics but last season was still a good season, especially considering where we were pre - season. Any recruitment plans already made for next season will be torn up and we start again. Current squad members may now be seen as easy targets. We could lose some key players because of this other than Hamer, Souza and Anel. I can understand an argument that says we need a new approach and to freshen up things but the existing approach didn't do too badly last season did it? I can't think of anyone better qualified or better placed to lead the team next season than Chris Wilder and I would have preferred the board to have shown him some loyalty and stuck with him.

I have seen some comments on this forum that have been very disrespectful to Chris Wilder. Every supporter should remember where we were at the end of the Adkins season and the impact that Chris had over the next few years. Yes, he has got things wrong but he has stabilised the club twice and been our best manager in my lifetime ( and that includes Dave Bassett and John Harris). Chris should go with the heartfelt thanks of every Unitedite. I wish Selles well if he is to be Chris's successor. I hope he is an inspired choice and that this move from the board proves to be a stroke of genius. I hope I am completely wrong but I fear this day could be one that United regret for a long time.

There will always be risks when changing a manager. Most often it comes on the back of a series of poor results which make a managers position untenable…

It’s good you mention the change from Adkin’s to Wilder, it was Blades defining.

I’d also go back to changes we made and why we made them.

Adam’s to Wilson - following relegation, it was a very bold move to bring Wilson in, but the change in football style was something we all bought into. A fantastic season until it wasn’t.

Clough to Adkins - Clough was steady, gave us some good memories, but it went stale, he had no money, went too safe and it was perhaps, in hindsight a very mediocre transition period. Adkin’s came with a track record and a style which everyone wanted us to play, people were excited that we’d rise up like Southampton did. In reality it was almost fraudulent. Some of I’d not the worst football we’d played and just a very strange character. It was supposed to signal a change in style for the purist.

Wilder to Slav - the success of Wilder and what he did not just for the team but the club, had pulled everything together. We went down from the PL and the Prince wanted Slav to replicate his previous success with lovely football. He never managed to show what he could bring. He didn’t have the budget or the time he needed and couldn’t get the players to get results in that transition period.

I’m trying to understand what the change brings and so far I haven’t come up with anything new, so it’ll be interesting to hear what the plan is from both Selles and the owners.

 

[wak1889]

It'll be interesting to see what they do if by November we're well off the play offs positions, similar to the Robson and Slav seasons.
Both those times we were coming off relegation, but replacing a manager who's just finished 3rd, did the double over our rivals and we can question why should Selles be given any more time?

They won't do anything I wouldn't imagine, they will realise that there is still 6 months of the season to play

 

[jt64]

The 'mistakes we've already made' led to 92 points whether you like it or not. The 'mistakes we've already made' have seen us maintain a place near the top of the championship in every recent season. And if you want a chance of going up...... you've got to be near the top

No transfer strategy in the championship will realistically prepare you fully for the PL. That depends on recruitment once promoted. Unless you think every signing can be some brilliant 21 year old Dane for 2.5m who hits all the data metrics who all the other clubs just happen to have missed

I'm not denying we got 90 points. I'm saying that is getting 90 points is likely a big positive outlier, based on widely available advanced metrics and simple eye tests. I'll allow that we have some right to outperform expected points as we have one of the better goalkeepers in the division, but Cooper clearly does not account for the entire differential between the points we got, and the points we deserved to get.

As for no transfer strategy making you ready for the PL? I'll agree with you. Nothing is going to make you fully prepared. But some will give you a better chance than others. I would argue that targeting players who are likely going to be the best player at their club (and priced accordingly), will be demanding wages to match to give huge total cost of ownership, likely easily into eight figures per player, when the chances that said players are going to at best have a single figure percentage chance of looking like a PL-level player should you get there at any point in their contract - I would argue THAT is the risky approach. High cost with low chance of return.

Actually, I take that back. It's not risky, as the end result is known so often that you can call what happens in advance. There's no risk involved as it is just setting huge amounts of money on fire with no prospect of progressing the club. It is not downside when it doesn't work, because it works so infrequently.

 

[Loco Blade]

Anything other than promotion was going to lead to this understanding the urgency these owners have to get to the so called promised land . We don’t know the facts. We know CW has previous for confrontation with owners . Personally I think he was a dead man walking at the final whistle at Wembley. There is no room for sentimentality in the game today it’s a result business and I don’t think the Americans want long term ownership just to flip the club once we get to the prem which is why they are not taking a more relaxed view . If they turn us into the next Bournemouth Brighton or Brentford nobody will be bitching . The interesting days ahead but let’s get behind the boys anyway ! UTB

 

[Proper Blade]

Idiotic decision from a pair of owners who have revealed themselves to be totally fucking idiots already.

They evidently know absolutely nothing about football. It's one thing to sack Wilder - it's another to replace him with some midtable no-mark whose crowning managerial achievement is finishing 19th with Hull.

But hey, at least some Yank twat who produced The Avengers is on board. Go Sheffield Reds!

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

I'm not denying we got 90 points. I'm saying that is getting 90 points is likely a big positive outlier, based on widely available advanced metrics and simple eye tests. I'll allow that we have some right to outperform expected points as we have one of the better goalkeepers in the division, but Cooper clearly does not account for the entire differential between the points we got, and the points we deserved to get.

As for no transfer strategy making you ready for the PL? I'll agree with you. Nothing is going to make you fully prepared. But some will give you a better chance than others. I would argue that targeting players who are likely going to be the best player at their club (and priced accordingly), will be demanding wages to match to give huge total cost of ownership, likely easily into eight figures per player, when the chances that said players are going to at best have a single figure percentage chance of looking like a PL-level player should you get there at any point in their contract - I would argue THAT is the risky approach. High cost with low chance of return.

Actually, I take that back. It's not risky, as the end result is known so often that you can call what happens in advance. There's no risk involved as it is just setting huge amounts of money on fire with no prospect of progressing the club. It is not downside when it doesn't work, because it works so infrequently.

There's no reason most top end championship signings would have to cost huge money. I'd focus on frees, loans and the 3-4m range - probably with the sale of at least one non essential player to fund much of it. Which is another advantageous position we find ourselves in - we have such assets to fund it

 

[Sheffsteel]

My view why the owners prefer a change in manager.

1: Wilder has shown he’s emotional…which is heightened because he’s a Blade. Wouldn’t surprise me if his emotion/ passion blows over in a positive and negative way regards internal communications.
2: Wilder still sees his close friends who support Sheff Utd…leading to politics and rumours.
3: Wilders daughter is or was, reportedly in a relation with one of our significant players….again could backfire regards favouritism/ complications.
4: The on field behaviour of our players resulting in several fines….passion/ bad behaviour reflects badly on the manager and bad publicity.

I reckon the owners prefer simplicity…they don’t want a manager with extreme passion and tentacles in all areas of a club
They just want a professional 1st team coach/ tactician who is no trouble and knows his place.

It’s a brave decision….and I wouldn’t have done it….too risky for me….but it’s their money at stake…can only wish them luck.

 

[Ned the Donkey]

Brooks scores. United win. None of this happens.

 

[jt64]

There's no reason most top end championship signings would have to cost huge money. I'd focus on frees, loans and the 3-4m range - probably with the sale of at least one non essential player to fund much of it. Which is another advantageous position we find ourselves in - we have such assets to fund it

OK, let's play hypotheticals. Callum O'Hare arrived last summer on a four year deal, of which one is already done. Let us suppose we were to stick with Wilder going forward, it works this season and we promote, but (as I would expect) we are hugely outclassed, relegate immediately, and then don't immediately rebound. How much money will we have paid to Callum under those circumstances, and how much progression has the club made from where we signed him?

 

[itsinyerblood]

Anything other than promotion was going to lead to this understanding the urgency these owners have to get to the so called promised land . We don’t know the facts. We know CW has previous for confrontation with owners . Personally I think he was a dead man walking at the final whistle at Wembley. There is no room for sentimentality in the game today it’s a result business and I don’t think the Americans want long term ownership just to flip the club once we get to the prem which is why they are not taking a more relaxed view . If they turn us into the next Bournemouth Brighton or Brentford nobody will be bitching . The interesting days ahead but let’s get behind the boys anyway ! UTB

Fair comments, I'd add that the mystifying approach to team selection suggests a tired and predictable management
choice. Having brought in an experienced CH in Holding, then to give him limited minutes where he looked more than competent, and then, in our most important game of the season, to allow blind loyalty to Robinson to be the guiding principle where selection is concerned, this contributed to a lacklustre performance that cost us dearly.

I find it mindboggling that JLT was chosen for this most vital of games, yet he was, and we lost as a consequence.
Yet I guess the Wilder diehards will conveniently smooth over this as a mere detail and cite what happened when Wilder first became manager as a reason to stick with Wilder, as if any of that has a bearing on the here and now.

 

[Il Coltello]

I'm clearly in the minority but I'm quite excited by the supposed appointment of Selles. Whenever I've watched his teams (including when Hull absolutely turned us over at home last season), they play with real purpose with quick forward passes and considerable movement off the ball.

Other than in a handful of games last season, the football we played was laboured, predictable and largely innefective. The substitutions Wilder made were often odd and rarely effective.

I'm very grateful to Chris but perhaps the time has come to try something new and Selles could be that option.

Of course it could be an absolute bin fire of a decision too...

 

[3Cheers4Ramirez]

OK, let's play hypotheticals. Callum O'Hare arrived last summer on a four year deal, of which one is already done. Let us suppose we were to stick with Wilder going forward, it works this season and we promote, but (as I would expect) we are hugely outclassed, relegate immediately, and then don't immediately rebound. How much money will we have paid to Callum under those circumstances, and how much progression has the club made from where we signed him?

How much money will we have earned from being in the PL after he helped us get there? How much money might we have made on other players we were able to sign due to being in the PL? How much money would we have to spend replacing him and trying to find an equivalent?

 

[SW12 to S12 to S18]

Brooks scores. United win. None of this happens.

I’m not so sure.

 

[jt64]

How much money will we have earned from being in the PL after he helped us get there? How much money might we have made on other players we were able to sign due to being in the PL? How much money would we have to spend replacing him and trying to find an equivalent?

Go into politics.

 

[Nick Jansky]

I'm clearly in the minority but I'm quite excited by the supposed appointment of Selles.

I’m not sure you will be in the minority. You can safely ignore what you see on social media.

 

[Nonamedhorse]

So now we know that Chris Wilder is about to be replaced. All the views about Wilder both for and against have been discussed at length and I get arguments on both sides. But in the end this sems to be to be a very high risk decision. It is revealing to see comments from supporters of other clubs (who are more able to look at this objectively), calling this madness. The only way this decision would make any sense for me is if there had been a complete breakdown in relationship between board and manager and a huge bust up. However, according to Danny Hall and others this is not the case. There has been no fall out.

From a financial point of view this must be very expensive. From a football point of view it could be argued as reckless. OK, there are legitimate crticisms of Chris's selections, style of play and tactics but last season was still a good season, especially considering where we were pre - season. Any recruitment plans already made for next season will be torn up and we start again. Current squad members may now be seen as easy targets. We could lose some key players because of this other than Hamer, Souza and Anel. I can understand an argument that says we need a new approach and to freshen up things but the existing approach didn't do too badly last season did it? I can't think of anyone better qualified or better placed to lead the team next season than Chris Wilder and I would have preferred the board to have shown him some loyalty and stuck with him.

I have seen some comments on this forum that have been very disrespectful to Chris Wilder. Every supporter should remember where we were at the end of the Adkins season and the impact that Chris had over the next few years. Yes, he has got things wrong but he has stabilised the club twice and been our best manager in my lifetime ( and that includes Dave Bassett and John Harris). Chris should go with the heartfelt thanks of every Unitedite. I wish Selles well if he is to be Chris's successor. I hope he is an inspired choice and that this move from the board proves to be a stroke of genius. I hope I am completely wrong but I fear this day could be one that United regret for a long time.

The football last season was shite to watch, CW failed us and he is a dinosaur in his approach to the modern world of football. He needed to go if we are to progress.