New Manager ?

[Frank the tank]

Know exactly what you mean. We sold Osula and spent the money plus an extra million on Cannon.
. .. Oh, wait...

That's not true though is it ?

 

[alcoblade]

If you revisit the thread, you will see that I was talking about what will happen once he has gone & been replaced.

No understood. I just think it's not a Wilder thing. It's just a relatively successful manager thing. It's only when you get rid of utter shite like Robson are the fans truly unified. So I'm personally not convinced that, in itself, it's a reason to have to move on. There's plenty of better arguments (in my opinion, obviously )

 

[Nick Jansky]

No understood. I just think it's not a Wilder thing. It's just a relatively successful manager thing. It's only when you get rid of utter shite like Robson are the fans truly unified. So I'm personally not convinced that, in itself, it's a reason to have to move on. There's plenty of better arguments (in my opinion, obviously )

I think that a bit of a cult has built up around Wilder with a certain faction of our support to a degree that we haven’t seen before. I think the next manager will suffer from it. But again, just an opinion.

 

[1066blade]

That's not true though is it ?

Please enlighten me.

 

[The Crab]

I agree it definitely is but give Bassett the same resources Wilder got to spend when we went up?

Can’t really argue with that. I just thought DB was at his best when he was bargain buying, some might say the same about Wilder?

 

[alcoblade]

I think that a bit of a cult has built up around Wilder with a certain faction of our support to a degree that we haven’t seen before. I think the next manager will suffer from it. But again, just an opinion.

I'd keep him on balance.

Plus points;

Good long term track record
Continuity (we only just fell short)
He had delivered one of our best eras in modern history (and I think fans and owners are too short term in their thinking)

Minus points

Seemingly an OTT us and them culture amongst the squad which has led to record fines. He's a bit of a gobshite at times.

I question if there's a drinking culture allowed that's not conducive with modern football

I was very bored with last seasons approach


On balance, I'm 60-40 for. He should be given a few new rules to work within. But we should get on with deciding, either way.


I don't subscribe to the idea he can't work with a DOF or other modern ways - purely based in the fact that I don't know, and he's suggested otherwise. I appreciate there's something about his personality that seems "old school", which makes people doubt this.

 

[Frank the tank]

Please enlighten me.

The money used from selling osula was spent in the summer by an entirely different ownership group

 

[Nick Jansky]

I'd keep him on balance.

Plus points;

Good long term track record
Continuity (we only just fell short)
He had delivered one of our best eras in modern history (and I think fans and owners are too short term in their thinking)

Minus points

Seemingly an OTT us and them culture amongst the squad which has led to record fines. He's a bit of a gobshite at times.

I question if there's a drinking culture allowed that's not conducive with modern football

I was very bored with last seasons approach


On balance, I'm 60-40 for. He should be given a few new rules to work within. But we should get on with deciding, either way.


I don't subscribe to the idea he can't work with a DOF or other modern ways - purely based in the fact that I don't know, and he's suggested otherwise. I appreciate there's something about his personality that seems "old school", which makes people doubt this.

I would like him gone, with huge gratitude for his first four years.

I think he is diminished compared to Mk1 (maybe having wealth for the first time in his life has contributed? I’ve seen it affect people in different ways) and I think the game has begun to move on from him. The pace of change in the last 5 years has been eye watering. We already need to sprint to catch up, as a club we have already begun to fall behind.

Eras come and go, and right now it feels like the end of one.

 

[Dkc]

O'Neil has already managed 100 games as a Premier League manager. David Weir hadn't managed a single game when he joined us.

He's managed 79 PL games and won 23 of them.

 

[Nick Jansky]

He's managed 79 PL games and won 23 of them.

Wilder has managed 90 and won 20. So Wilder is clearly well behind on that metric.

 

[Youngand70]

They won’t exist in a vacuum. I have no doubt they will have been taking advice.

I certainly would hope it is better advice than extending CW's contract, I believe prematurely, and placing Steve Bettis on the board, whose historical attitude is anti Director of Football. Which is anti "modernisation". Correct me if I'm wrong but Bettis, to my knowledge, came into the club in the McCabe era due to being friends with either Scott or Simon McCabe in a part time advisory role, being a qualified accountant. Apart from the experience he has picked up on the way in his time at Bramall Lane in League One, the Championship and the Premier League (3 seasons including 2 relegations) I would ask what top flight, serious, modern football era experience does he offer? As CEO of the club is his mind set the right one to contribute to the forward thinking strategy and ethos that we desperately need. Is he in his present position due to a recommendation from good old Prince Abdullah? Similar to the Prince Abdullah era, a mostly absentee "landlord", with our new owners being across the pond will we again end up with a "while the cats away the mice will play" situation?

 

[Slug]

He's managed 79 PL games and won 23 of them.

That's why I said 'As a Premier League manager' and not 'in the Premier League'

 

[cooperblade]

I think that a bit of a cult has built up around Wilder with a certain faction of our support to a degree that we haven’t seen before. I think the next manager will suffer from it. But again, just an opinion.

For me, it's less that a cult has built up around Wilder and more a reflection of a society where nuance has basically disappeared and people decide which camp they're in and then stick to that come what may and get increasingly passionate (and, often, stupid) when defending their side.

 

[1066blade]

The money used from selling osula was spent in the summer by an entirely different ownership group

My point was, we got £9m for a promising starlet who is now impressing nationaly for Denmark. Then paid £1m more for someone who, let's say hasn't set the field on fire, let alone the world. Who oversaw the deals is something of a mute point. SUFC fucked up. Again

 

[Torrix1889]

Oh, I see. Rumours and tittle tattle then.

Dont think it's tittle tattle, there's obviously a decision to be made in the coming days and fans are giving their opinion, from what I have read it's 50/50 on whether they want Wilder in charge next season.

Sorry that doesn't suit your rhetoric

 

[1066blade]

Cannon, right up there along with Wilders other big money flops.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I certainly would hope it is better advice than extending CW's contract, I believe prematurely, and placing Steve Bettis on the board, whose historical attitude is anti Director of Football. Which is anti "modernisation". Correct me if I'm wrong but Bettis, to my knowledge, came into the club in the McCabe era due to being friends with either Scott or Simon McCabe in a part time advisory role, being a qualified accountant. Apart from the experience he has picked up on the way in his time at Bramall Lane in League One, the Championship and the Premier League (3 seasons including 2 relegations) I would ask what top flight, serious, modern football era experience does he offer? As CEO of the club is his mind set the right one to contribute to the forward thinking strategy and ethos that we desperately need. Is he in his present position due to a recommendation from good old Prince Abdullah? Similar to the Prince Abdullah era, a mostly absentee "landlord", with our new owners being across the pond will we again end up with a "while the cats away the mice will play" situation?

His comments about DoF related to Wilders situation and the belief at the time that Wilders way was THE way. And under different ownership. There’s nothing in the article that he’s anti the position and common sense would suggest that his elevation to the board wouldn’t have happened if he was directly opposed to the thinking of the new owners.

Bettis answers United Director of Football question amid changes in recruitment

Sheffield United CEO Stepen Bettis spoke to The Star about the club's plans for the future, including recruitment and the possibility of a Director of Football coming on board

www.thestar.co.uk

What makes you think he was ever in charge of football matters, ie identifying players?

 

[cooperblade]

Wilder has managed 90 and won 20. So Wilder is clearly well behind on that metric.

Clearly behind at a very simplistic statistical level but it might be that Wilder's record is more impressive if you take squad strength into account (obviously you could argue that squad strength is, to some extent, down to the manager but it's only a very small part of the puzzle - especially in the PL).

I wouldn't necessarily be against O'Neil, at least he's a known quantity to some degree and I'd prefer that (at this time) to someone who has never managed in England before. As I've said elsewhere, my main problem with sacking Wilder now would be the timing. It's our last year of parachute payments and we're likely to have one of the relegated teams handicapped by a sizeable points deduction. If ever there was a season for short-termism, it's this one and I think the safest (but obviously not guaranteed) option is to stick with a manager who (despite some faults) has got this club promoted before, knows the squad and has just achieved an impressive points tally that was way in excess of pre-season expectations.

Do I want the club, as a general rule, to be smarter and more strategic? Yes. But I think we're best served waiting a year to start that process. We're going to have one hand tied behind our backs after this season

 

[Dkc]

Wilder has managed 90 and won 20. So Wilder is clearly well behind on that metric.

More relevant is their respective Championship experience and win rates, as that's the league we're in

 

[Davalon]

I think that a bit of a cult has built up around Wilder with a certain faction of our support to a degree that we haven’t seen before. I think the next manager will suffer from it. But again, just an opinion.

100%

 

[Frank the tank]

My point was, we got £9m for a promising starlet who is now impressing nationaly for Denmark. Then paid £1m more for someone who, let's say hasn't set the field on fire, let alone the world. Who oversaw the deals is something of a mute point. SUFC fucked up. Again

Again you're being very economical with the truth
At the start of the season we had no money and had to.rebuild

We sold players like osula traore trusty etc and brought Cooper o hare Moore etc

It was widely accepted as good business

Cannons signing in January has nothing to do with it ,by then we had new owners who had money to.invest and they chose to bring cannon in

If these new owners had been in situ in August maybe they wouldn't have sold osula ,who knows but the two things are not even vaguely connected

P.s it's moot

 

[Nick Jansky]

More relevant is their respective Championship experience and win rates, as that's the league we're in

Not really. A decent manager with our championship budget will get our squad, with some additions, up. The trick is then to stay there. Very doubtful that Wilder would keep us up, a far better chance with O’Neil.

And if it’s not relevant why did you quote his PL record?

 

[alcoblade]

I would like him gone, with huge gratitude for his first four years.

I think he is diminished compared to Mk1 (maybe having wealth for the first time in his life has contributed? I’ve seen it affect people in different ways) and I think the game has begun to move on from him. The pace of change in the last 5 years has been eye watering. We already need to sprint to catch up, as a club we have already begun to fall behind.

Eras come and go, and right now it feels like the end of one.

Ironically, one of my criticisms of him would be his embracing the modern way of Pep ball. If anything could finish me off, it's more of that!

 

[Nick Jansky]

Ironically, one of my criticisms of him would be his embracing the modern way of Pep ball. If anything could finish me off, it's more of that!

Well, it’s thinking he could play that style without having the players to do it. Which is another question mark.

 

[Dkc]

Not really. A decent manager with our championship budget will get our squad, with some additions, up. The trick is then to stay there. Very doubtful that Wilder would keep us up, a far better chance with O’Neil.

So you really think that a bloke who has never managed in the Championship, has only managed for a couple of seasons altogether and has been sacked from his two other jobs is better-equipped to get us promoted than Wilder?

Or could it just be that you dislike Wilder so much that you'd take anyone as long as we sack him?

 

[GymClassHero]

I'd keep him on balance.

Plus points;

Good long term track record
Continuity (we only just fell short)
He had delivered one of our best eras in modern history (and I think fans and owners are too short term in their thinking)

Minus points

Seemingly an OTT us and them culture amongst the squad which has led to record fines. He's a bit of a gobshite at times.

I question if there's a drinking culture allowed that's not conducive with modern football

I was very bored with last seasons approach


On balance, I'm 60-40 for. He should be given a few new rules to work within. But we should get on with deciding, either way.


I don't subscribe to the idea he can't work with a DOF or other modern ways - purely based in the fact that I don't know, and he's suggested otherwise. I appreciate there's something about his personality that seems "old school", which makes people doubt this.

Fair assessment.

The number one problem I have is this negative approach we've adopted under him and subsequent lack of identity to our play. I came to dread taking an early lead because I knew within minutes we would switch to a more defensive approach and sit deeper rather than continue doing what was successful.

Best form of defense is attack. Late in the game is absolutely acceptable with the view to hitting tiring teams on the break. Last season even after several attempts at doing this and failing by ultimately conceding late on Wednesday would still do it again. It's especially poor when it's being deployed against teams battling relegation.

 

[alcoblade]

Fair assessment.

The number one problem I have is this negative approach we've adopted under him and subsequent lack of identity to our play. I came to dread taking an early lead because I knew within minutes we would switch to a more defensive approach and sit deeper rather than continue doing what was successful.

Best form of defense is attack. Late in the game is absolutely acceptable with the view to hitting tiring teams on the break. Last season even after several attempts at doing this and failing by ultimately conceding late on Wednesday would still do it again. It's especially poor when it's being deployed against teams battling relegation.

I agree 100%. I'd hope this would be spelt out to him going forward, if it needed to be. More's the point, you'd hope he'd grasp it himself.

 

[Rodley]

The latest rumour is that it is someone who has become available recently and they feel he’s an upgrade. Here’s the list:-

Date​	Manager​	Club / National Team​	Country / League​
15 Apr	Lukas Kwasniok	SC Paderborn	Germany / 2. Bundesliga
23 Apr	Interim trio	Hannover 96	Germany / 2. Bundesliga
27 Apr	Sascha Hildmann	Preußen Münster	Germany / 2. Bundesliga
30 Apr	Peter Maes	Willem II	Netherlands / Eredivisie
3 May	Jakob Fimpel (interim)	Schalke 04	Germany / 2. Bundesliga
3 May	Jack Wilshere (interim)	Norwich City	England / Championship
4 May	Ralph Hasenhüttl	VfL Wolfsburg	Germany / Bundesliga
4 May	Iñigo Calderón	Bristol Rovers	England / League One
5 May	Gerhard Struber	1. FC Köln	Germany / Bundesliga
6 May	Tom Cleverley	Watford	England / Championship
6 May	Ange Postecoglou	Tottenham Hotspur	England / Premier League
9 May	Xabi Alonso	Bayer Leverkusen	Germany / Bundesliga
15 May	Rubén Sellés	Hull City	England / Championship
19 May	Daniel Scherning	Eintracht Braunschweig	Germany / 2. Bundesliga
22 May	Stuart Maynard	Notts County	England / League Two
23 May	Dafydd Williams	Newport County	England / League Two
23 May	Jess Thorup	FC Augsburg	Germany / Bundesliga
26 May	Interim duo	Greuther Fürth	Germany / 2. Bundesliga
27 May	Ole Werner	Werder Bremen	Germany / Bundesliga
28 May	Jon Worthington	Huddersfield Town	England / Championship
29 May	Horst Steffen	SV Elversberg	Germany / 2. Bundesliga
31 May	Gian Piero Gasperini	Atalanta	Italy / Serie A
31 May	Miron Muslić	Plymouth Argyle (to Schalke)	England / Championship
3 June	Michael Carrick	Middlesbrough	England / Championship
3 June	Liam Manning	Bristol City	England / Championship
6 June	Ange Postecoglou	Tottenham Hotspur	England / Premier League
9 June	Luciano Spalletti	Italy national team	Italy / International
12 June	Chris Coleman	OH Leuven	Belgium / Pro League
May (exact)	Francesco Farioli	Ajax	Netherlands / Eredivisie
2 June	James Morrison	West Bromwich Albion

 

[1066blade]

Again you're being very economical with the truth
At the start of the season we had no money and had to.rebuild

We sold players like osula traore trusty etc and brought Cooper o hare Moore etc

It was widely accepted as good business

Cannons signing in January has nothing to do with it ,by then we had new owners who had money to.invest and they chose to bring cannon in

If these new owners had been in situ in August maybe they wouldn't have sold osula ,who knows but the two things are not even vaguely connected

P.s it's moot

Do you really belive swapping Osula for Moore, was "widely accepted as good business"? Jeez ( no, I know, I've spelt Jesus incorrectly Mr Pedant).

 

[Woodwaaard]

Robert Page anyone?