Mr Rosen and Mr Eltoukhy

[UTB Blade]

Yes it does. If championship manager A has a squad of premier league quality players and championship manager B has a squad of league one quality players, then their respective squads would understandably likely be very far apart in terms of points. That doesn't mean manager A is better than manager B, your expectations on a successful season are defined based on how good your squad is.

And for the record, I'm not advocating for anything, but we've got a much better squad than Middlesborough.

I never said that. I don't particularly rate Carrick, but just because you finish with a higher points tally than another manager doesn't mean you're a better manager than them.

Sure. You also don't know that they would've done worse than Wilder for a fact. It's a forum, people are free to speculate.

I'm not trashing him, I appreciate everything he's done for the club. I simply pointed out that your assertion of 'well, Wilder's team had more points than insert random manager's team, so Wilder must be the better manager' isn't always right. He came 3rd with what was probably the 3rd best squad in the championship. Indeed, at one point we were top with a few matches left, and we ended up finishing 3rd. Not to mention the Plymouth Argyle scuffle...

I don't know if another manager would've done better in the same circumstances, I don't claim to. I just think it's silly to dismiss potential manages because Wilder finished with more points than them in the league. Sean Dyche finished higher than Vincent Kompany a year ago. One of those managers is currently managing the German champions, the other one is probably sat on his couch watching reruns of Little Britain.

So winning an award from one specific outlet in 2019 means he's better than Farke and Parker right now?

Is Steve Coppell a better manager than Chris Wilder right now? Coppell won it back-to-back from this specific publication, so surely...?

Sorry - this is a misrepresentation of what everyone has been saying. I haven't said Carrick was better than Wilder, seemingly only one person has said they want Carrick to be the new manager. Your expectations as a manager are set based on the strength of your squad. Michael Carrick didn't have a promotion-level squad to work with, so it's extremely unrealistic to suggest that the only reason he should theoretically ruled out of being Sheffield United manager is because he finished lower in the table than Wilder, instead of Carrick's numerous tactical shortcomings. Wilder had the second or third best squad in the championship (you can decide whether we have a better squad than Burnley), and we finished 3rd. He met expectations or if you're being really cruel, which I don't want to be, he underperformed. If Russell Martin kept Southampton up this season in 17th, I would've considered him to be a better manager than, say, Ruben Amorim, even though Amorim would've finished higher, because of the difference in quality between Southampton and Man United's squads. Their expectations on what success looks like is different because of the quality of their squads.

I don't think finishing above someone in the table makes you a better manager than someone who finished lower than you. Graham Potter had Chelsea 11th when he was sacked, above Julen Lopetegui at Wolves. Lopetegui, for all his faults, is a proven winner and a former Spain and Real Madrid manager. Yet he was below Potter in the table...?

If we're judging Wilder to be a better football manager than Parker or Farke because of the opinion of footballing experts back in 2019 (Wilder no doubt deserved to win the award at the time, but it isn't 2019 anymore. Besides, footballing 'experts' also gave the Ballon d'or to Michael Owen over Raul and Oliver Kahn, so they are just as likely to know nowt as you or I), then why isn't Steve Coppell a better manager right now than Wilder? He won it twice, back-to-back, I don't think Wilder's done that.

Blade45, I've come to the opinion from reading your replies to me about Wilder on this thread, that if the love of your life were to drop down in front of you in a dead faint, and Wilder were the one to successfully resuscitate them and save their life, you would, instead of thanking him for his heroic actions in saving the life of your beloved, give him a good sound kicking in the bollocks!

Therefore, as I have no desire to fall out with you - since you seem a decent and jolly fellow on all topics other than your nemesis Wilder - as far as discussing Wilder with you goes, I'm out! Up The Blades

 

[Blade45]

Blade45, I've come to the opinion from reading your replies to me about Wilder on this thread, that if the love of your life were to drop down in front of you in a dead faint, and Wilder were the one to successfully resuscitate them and save their life, you would, instead of thanking him for his heroic actions in saving the life of your beloved, give him a good sound kicking in the bollocks!

Therefore, as I have no desire to fall out with you - since you seem a decent and jolly fellow on all topics other than your nemesis Wilder - as far as discussing Wilder with you goes, I'm out! Up The Blades

Seriously - I don't hate Wilder. I appreciate everything he's done for the club. I'm honestly 50-50 on whether he should move on or not, but I understand, I don't wish to fall out with anyone either.

UTB

 

[Keen Blade]

If their strategy and Wilder's fundamentally don't align they definitely shouldn't have renewed his contract. Unless there's a break clause that's their first huge error

Indulge me for a minute ...
What if they expected to go up - knew CW was no good in the PL - saw the contract payout as a means of rewarding him for promotion when saying bye bye ?
And - at that stage - saw no one better to get us up if we failed in '25 ?

But subsequently , have managed to see the errors of his ways , which came home to roost in one appalling week ...
And are now not so sure about his ability to even get us up ?

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

Bang on J F. Slav could, and would have been the best manager since the greatest 2, John Harris and Dave Basset with time and support from the fat Saudi who was obsessed with Heckingbottom. After all, it was Slav who brought in M G W and paired him with Ndiaye to wonderful success !

No fat shaming please. My cats are looking worried.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Surely it's the ones who know sweet FA who can't see Wilder's misjudgments and just look at 92 points and say keep him

Yeah it’s that cut and dried.

Discounting everything else !

UTB

 

[PrestwichBlade]

But it's nothing like this forum. The LMA Manager of the Year Award is the opinions of experts, not the opinions of know-nowts on a message board - and, yes, I include myself in the know-nowts bracket.

That's my point - we can only make sound judgements on important decisions like changing the manager, based on facts and the judgement of experts, not based on assumptions and the opinions of we know-nowts on this board.

Good grief man. If you think I literally meant like this forum, I give up. Experts they might be, but it's still opinion. I've acknowledged it was a great achievement but back in 2019.

 

[OldBillBlade]

I really hope the owners are hard nosed businessmen and reward Wilder's failure with the sack. The club badly needs a reset and a new culture. Wilder got found out in the Covid season then we ended up with Hecky eking out 1-0 wins after Slav failed, then we get Wilder back again eking out 1-0 wins. Most of these players are better than that. Find a manager who will attack teams and put them away rather than sit back to see the games out, 2nd half tactics today have lost us £150- 200 million.
Regretting buying that Season Ticket already

I'm sure you can still get a refund at this point.

 

[nopigfansintown]

Indulge me for a minute ...
What if they expected to go up - knew CW was no good in the PL - saw the contract payout as a means of rewarding him for promotion when saying bye bye ?
And - at that stage - saw no one better to get us up if we failed in '25 ?

But subsequently , have managed to see the errors of his ways , which came home to roost in one appalling week ...
And are now not so sure about his ability to even get us up ?

I don't think anything should have changed from then to now rationale wise. If you weren't prepared to back CW this season based on the job he'd done at that point regardless of the final outcome you don't give the contract. You already all the circumstances you could be facing going into this season. One of them can't result in a sacking and a big payout. It's not much different from Manure backing Ten Haag with a new contract recently.

 

[Eskimo]

There are much better managers out there than Wilder. That’s unfortunately just a fact, it’s whether we can afford them & whether they want to join us.

2025 Wilder is tactically naive, no real identity, in game management is poor & has a limited knowledge of foreign based players. At times last season he opted for this underdog title, but we wasn’t we had Souza, Anel, Cooper, Hamer, Choudhury, Diaz, Burrows, JRS, Campbell all really good players.

He turned up against Leeds away randomly playing 3-5-1-1 despite us being on an unbeaten run with Shackleton RWB.

Bottled the home game against Leeds after a great 45 mins - same applied to the Wembley game. We had no game plan against Burnley in either of the games & Sunderland battered us away (we did have a weakened team that day though).

Playing how we did last season I think we’d have broken a record for low points this season if we were promoted

And what about all the other games we won?

 

[Millhousesblade1889]

And what about all the other games we won?

It’s a completely fair comment, but what games have you seen us play where we’ve won the tactical battle against a top side?

The second half of the season we had a far better squad than most in the championship yet we bottled so many games at times where our rivals turned up the heat. Bristol, Millwall, Plymouth, Oxford & then the second half disaster against Sunderland where it was inevitable they’d win from the moment they equalised.

We sat behind most 1-0 leads, to the point wilder had to come out and say he doesn’t tell the players to do it.

Then you’ve got his antics off the pitch against Wednesday, the press conferences, the fighting against Plymouth, the inability to control his players.

These are the things that the board will be looking at as well as the fact they want to go in a different recruitment direction.

 

[Kenworthy’s Tash]

There are much better managers out there than Wilder. That’s unfortunately just a fact, it’s whether we can afford them & whether they want to join us.

2025 Wilder is tactically naive, no real identity, in game management is poor & has a limited knowledge of foreign based players. At times last season he opted for this underdog title, but we wasn’t we had Souza, Anel, Cooper, Hamer, Choudhury, Diaz, Burrows, JRS, Campbell all really good players.

He turned up against Leeds away randomly playing 3-5-1-1 despite us being on an unbeaten run with Shackleton RWB.

Bottled the home game against Leeds after a great 45 mins - same applied to the Wembley game. We had no game plan against Burnley in either of the games & Sunderland battered us away (we did have a weakened team that day though).

Playing how we did last season I think we’d have broken a record for low points this season if we were promoted

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly this. Can we not remember the endless games last season that we stole simply due to our superior strikers. Number of times they dug us out. Wilder had us punching well below what we should have been serving up.

 

[Suomi_Blade]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly this. Can we not remember the endless games last season that we stole simply due to our superior strikers. Number of times they dug us out. Wilder had us punching well below what we should have been serving up.

Is 92 points considered below par? Id say not but maybe my footballing standards are quite low compared to others?!?

 

[Carlton Blade]

92 points or 90 points and 10 points away from automatic promotion ?

28 wins or lost 6/7 v the promoted teams?

Built a squad from nothing or started the season with Anel, Souza, Arblaster and Hamer which is a fantastic Championship core?

Did great transfer business or fucked January up completely?

A great season or a great first half (53 points) and a disappointing 2nd (39 points after huge investment)?

Overachieved or underachieved?. Or most likely, is now a competent manager at this level who'll make sure you finish about where your wage bill says you should

 

[Keen Blade]

I don't think anything should have changed from then to now rationale wise. If you weren't prepared to back CW this season based on the job he'd done at that point regardless of the final outcome you don't give the contract. You already all the circumstances you could be facing going into this season. One of them can't result in a sacking and a big payout. It's not much different from Manure backing Ten Haag with a new contract recently.

Fair enough , it's just a theory - trying to make sense of the current mystery.
So many mysteries - inevitable I guess.
I'm still wondering whether Cannon was Wilder's signing or the owners.
Two schools of thought were put forward on here.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

Disappointed by how the new board are managing the current situation. Seems rudderless when, with one season of parachute payments in place, we should have all our ducks in a row as early as possible.

It’s also a bit of a cunt’s trick letting this all play out in the local and national press, particularly given CW has given us such great service over many seasons. And the fact that two weeks later we still are “umming and ahhhhing” over a key strategic decision seems more akin to a Local Bowls Club Committee rather than a professional football club.

They also gave him a 3 year deal in January, knowing promotion wasn't guaranteed.

They knew the man they were dealing with, nothing that's happened since should have come as a major shock to them.

It doesn't feel like intelligent decision making.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

92 points or 90 points and 10 points away from automatic promotion ?

28 wins or lost 6/7 v the promoted teams?

Built a squad from nothing or started the season with Anel, Souza, Arblaster and Hamer which is a fantastic Championship core?

Did great transfer business or fucked January up completely?

A great season or a great first half (53 points) and a disappointing 2nd (39 points after huge investment)?

Overachieved or underachieved?. Or most likely, is now a competent manager at this level who'll make sure you finish about where your wage bill says you should

Our squad for our last pre season game. Fantastic core? Or puddle thin squad. It improved in August but not until January did we have anywhere near a full squad. By then blaster and Souttar were hobbled.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Our squad for our last pre season game. Fantastic core? Or puddle thin squad. It improved in August but not until January did we have anywhere near a full squad. By then blaster and Souttar were hobbled.

Are you saying that Anel, Arblaster, Souza, Hamer aren't the fantastic core of a Championship team?

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Are you saying that Anel, Arblaster, Souza, Hamer aren't the fantastic core of a Championship team?

I'm saying a core with nothing around it is pretty much useless.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I'm saying a core with nothing around it is pretty much useless.

So he used the very healthy budget to supplement 4 of the best players in their position in the league.

He didn't build a squad from nothing. He made good August signings and formed a good squad. But it's not 2017 where he built from nothing. 9 of the players who played v Sunderland were here last season. Arblaster is out injured but started when fit.

 

[Silent Blade]

They also gave him a 3 year deal in January, knowing promotion wasn't guaranteed.

They knew the man they were dealing with, nothing that's happened since should have come as a major shock to them.

It doesn't feel like intelligent decision making.

Alex Crook said in Talksport that there is a clause in Wilder's contract that we can get rid of him cheaply if we failed in getting promotion

 

[Shawy24]

Football players are human beings, not cars, so that analogy is flawed for a start.

As for who's the better manager out of Daniel Farke, Scott Parker and Chris Wilder?

Well, I always think it's wise to trust the judgement of experts, rather than the judgement of lay people, and, fortunately, the football management experts in this country have been giving us their judgements of who are the best football managers in the country, since 1993. So let's take a look at their judgements, shall we?

View attachment 213338
View attachment 213339
View attachment 213340
View attachment 213341

Do you see Scott Parker or Daniel Farke's names on there at all?

Nope, me neither.

I can see Chris Wilder's name, however.

So, according to the experts, Chris Wilder is a better manager than Scott Parker and Daniel Farke.

Happy days.

Maybe he was then, but he sure isn’t now.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

So he used the very healthy budget to supplement 4 of the best players in their position in the league.

He didn't build a squad from nothing. He made good August signings and formed a good squad. But it's not 2017 where he built from nothing. 9 of the players who played v Sunderland were here last season. Arblaster is out injured but started when fit.

It wasn't from nothing no and yes financially a different world to previous championship seasons ( mostly down to Wilders success) but it was a major rebuild and anyone trying to spin that just looks a agenda filled lunatic to me

 

[Carlton Blade]

It wasn't from nothing no and yes financially a different world to previous championship seasons ( mostly down to Wilders success) but it was a major rebuild and anyone trying to spin that just looks a agenda filled lunatic to me

Spin it into what? A realistic view of what took place rather than a romanticised version?

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Spin it into what? A realistic view of what took place rather than a romanticised version?

Not sure how when you look at squad you can say it's realistically a top championship one but if you believe that I guess nobody will change your opinion.

 

[Carlton Blade]

Not sure how when you look at squad you can say it's realistically a top championship one but if you believe that I guess nobody will change your opinion.

Where did I say it was a 'top Championship squad' before the signings?

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Where did I say it was a 'top Championship squad' before the signings?

So he rebuilt it then.. fucking hell

 

[Carlton Blade]

So he rebuilt it then.. fucking hell

If you're chucking insults around, try to not be talking complete shit to justify them

 

[Berkshire Blade]

If you're chucking insults around, try to not be talking complete shit to justify them

I didn't insult you sweetheart just exhausted by the absolute blind spot some people have to how good last season was

 

[Carlton Blade]

I didn't insult you sweetheart just exhausted by the absolute blind spot some people have to how good last season was

"Agenda filled lunatic".

Keep the little internet "Sweetheart" crap too yourself too and try to focus on the actual words written down. Maybe move away from calling other people blind when you aren't even responding to what they posted?

Just a thought

 

[The Crab]

Who says the plan for next season is promotion?

I think it needs to be in the planning in some form, at the very least from a financial point of view