Mr Rosen and Mr Eltoukhy

[Not_a_Cheat]

100%.

I don't think Tom Cannon's mum would call him a resounding success just yet.

But the alternative seems to be signing ChatGPT players from the back of beyond because someone watched Moneyball on Netflix last week.

For me, we're as close as we've been for a very long time to closing the gap back to Wednesday. It's a big summer of big decisions.

Yes the mighty owls look destined to dwarf us next season. WTF

 

[Ned the Donkey]

Yes the mighty owls look destined to dwarf us next season. WTF

The board and Wilder fall out over recruitment.

Wilder is sacked.

The board recruits a “forward thinking” AI driven tech-bro data-guru with "21st Century" managerial practices to clear out the dinosaur infested backwaters of S2 (and S17).

The future’s bright.

Then, we make marquee signings with no thought to how they might fit together.

We waste a ton more time, money and effort on even more ChatGPT players.

Demoralised Academy staff drift off to clubs based in reality.

The board can’t work out the difference between computer models and league position. They keep referring to “the algorithm” in increasingly rare interviews.

Actual footballers look at each other in training and decide they’d rather be playing real football rather than hanging out with FIFA/Football Manager/Moneyball wannabes and fuck off, or down tools.

The parachute payments dry up.

We’re now on a level financial playing field with the rest of the League but - because of mismanagement - we’ve got no identity and no clue. An empty shell of a club.

Or we march our way to promotion next season with 100 points and 100 goals.

Choose Your Own Adventure

 

[Sean Thornton]

That depends on transfers.

Let's say, for example, we sold Gus Hamer for £20mil and he was on £30k per week, and we took a punt and replaced him with Charlie Savage at Reading for £5mil on £15k per week, we'd still be in the green despite a drop in parachute payments.

I'm not saying Charlie Savage should be a transfer target, it was just a name for argument sake.

You’re forgetting we always make losses in the Championship. The fixed costs don’t change much.

 

[ben1987]

That depends on transfers.

Let's say, for example, we sold Gus Hamer for £20mil and he was on £30k per week, and we took a punt and replaced him with Charlie Savage at Reading for £5mil on £15k per week, we'd still be in the green despite a drop in parachute payments.

I'm not saying Charlie Savage should be a transfer target, it was just a name for argument sake.

It’s not a drop in parachute payments. It’s no parachute payments.

Relegated after one season = 2 years parachute payments.

More than one season = 3 years of parachute payments

The drop in income if we do not go up this season will be substantial so it will be far more difficult to compete with the parachute clubs while cutting our cloth to manage losses.

 

[Tom Bott]

You need to rectify the damage you’ve done in giving that muppet a new contract and spending 10 million quid on C3PO. Get rid of both. Now. Bring in a foreign coach with a proper footballing philosophy and some players that can last longer 60 minutes.

Thomas Tuchel ?

Or will AI come up with better.

 

[Rodley]

Disappointed by how the new board are managing the current situation. Seems rudderless when, with one season of parachute payments in place, we should have all our ducks in a row as early as possible.

It’s also a bit of a cunt’s trick letting this all play out in the local and national press, particularly given CW has given us such great service over many seasons. And the fact that two weeks later we still are “umming and ahhhhing” over a key strategic decision seems more akin to a Local Bowls Club Committee rather than a professional football club.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Disappointed by how the new board are managing the current situation. Seems rudderless when, with one season of parachute payments in place, we should have all our ducks in a row as early as possible.



It’s also a bit of a cunt’s trick letting this all play out in the local and national press, particularly given CW has given us such great service over many seasons. And the fact that two weeks later we still are “umming and ahhhhing” over a key strategic decision seems more akin to a Local Bowls Club Committee rather than a professional football club.

Have you considered that the story could have come from “a friend of Wilder” and that any prevarication may be the board wondering how best to deal with this? No? Can’t believe it!

Photos of happy smiling manager going on his jollies not knowing that he could be sacked that very day? An agenda at work?

 

[Rodley]

Have you considered that the story could have come from “a friend of Wilder” and that any prevarication may be the board wondering how best to deal with this? No? Can’t believe it!

Photos of happy smiling manager going on his jollies not knowing that he could be sacked that very day? An agenda at work?

Well if a decision had been made a little bit earlier, the capacity for these incredibly dynamic (sic) media types to formulate agendas might have been curtailed somewhat.

 

[UTB Blade]

Looks like they did have the balls after all. 3wks too late but better late than never. Well done Mr Rosen and Mr Eltoukhy for getting rid of this dinosaur. Carrick or Cooper please!

So, you think it's a good idea to replace a 92 point manager, with a 64 point manager? Or, failing that, you want to replace a manager you perceive as a dinosaur, with a dinosaur?

And before anyone mentions the 'different squads' factor - I know. But having different squads does not equate to a 28 point differential.

 

[Blade45]

So, you think it's a good idea to replace a 92 point manager, with a 64 point manager? Or, failing that, you want to replace a manager you perceive as a dinosaur, with a dinosaur?

And before anyone mentions the 'different squads' factor - I know. But having different squads does not equate to a 28 point differential.

Yes it does. If championship manager A has a squad of premier league quality players and championship manager B has a squad of league one quality players, then their respective squads would understandably likely be very far apart in terms of points. That doesn't mean manager A is better than manager B, your expectations on a successful season are defined based on how good your squad is.

And for the record, I'm not advocating for anything, but we've got a much better squad than Middlesborough.

 

[Youngand70]

The board and Wilder fall out over recruitment.

Wilder is sacked.

The board recruits a “forward thinking” AI driven tech-bro data-guru with "21st Century" managerial practices to clear out the dinosaur infested backwaters of S2 (and S17).

The future’s bright.

Then, we make marquee signings with no thought to how they might fit together.

We waste a ton more time, money and effort on even more ChatGPT players.

Demoralised Academy staff drift off to clubs based in reality.

The board can’t work out the difference between computer models and league position. They keep referring to “the algorithm” in increasingly rare interviews.

Actual footballers look at each other in training and decide they’d rather be playing real football rather than hanging out with FIFA/Football Manager/Moneyball wannabes and fuck off, or down tools.

The parachute payments dry up.

We’re now on a level financial playing field with the rest of the League but - because of mismanagement - we’ve got no identity and no clue. An empty shell of a club.

Or we march our way to promotion next season with 100 points and 100 goals.

Choose Your Own Adventure

I get what your Braying - hee haw

 

[Sean Thornton]

Well if a decision had been made a little bit earlier, the capacity for these incredibly dynamic (sic) media types to formulate agendas might have been curtailed somewhat.

Did you consider it though?

 

[UTB Blade]

Yes it does. If championship manager A has a squad of premier league quality players and championship manager B has a squad of league one quality players, then their respective squads would understandably likely be very far apart in terms of points. That doesn't mean manager A is better than manager B, your expectations on a successful season are defined based on how good your squad is.

And for the record, I'm not advocating for anything, but we've got a much better squad than Middlesborough.

Do you know what, I'm actually really tired of people on this board assuming that every manager everywhere, with a crappy points total, is a better manager than Wilder because 'different squads, you know'.

Nobody can possibly know for a fact that Carrick, or anyone else, would have done as well as Wilder with our squad, much less that they'd have done better. People are just assuming, and assumptions are never a sound basis for making important decisions, such as changing the first team manager at a professional football club.

Making a major change like that requires careful, considered thought, taking all available facts into account - and assumptions are not facts.

The fact is, that only 2 managers achieved a better points total than Wilder in the Championship last season, and no amount of whataboutery regarding different squads will change that fact.

But I don't suppose for a single second, that fact will stop everyone and his brother on this message board, queuing up to stab Wilder in the back with 'yes, but he had a really good squad, you know, so his achievements count for jack shit.'

I'll finish by saying what I said once before on here, which is that I'm just a normal, everyday Blade, who is sick and tired of seeing the achievements of Chris Wilder trashed on a forum of people who should appreciate them the most.

Up The Blades

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

So, you think it's a good idea to replace a 92 point manager, with a 64 point manager? Or, failing that, you want to replace a manager you perceive as a dinosaur, with a dinosaur?

And before anyone mentions the 'different squads' factor - I know. But having different squads does not equate to a 28 point differential.

To put that in Formula 1 terms, that's like saying Fernando Alonso is a worse driver than Lando Norris because Norris wins races and Alonso doesn't. Alonso is still a better driver than Norris but he can't win races because he has a vastly inferior car.

On the other hand who is the better manager, Daniel Farke or Chris Wilder?

Who is the better manager, Scott Parker or Chris Wilder?

 

[Blade45]

Do you know what, I'm actually really tired of people on this board assuming that every manager everywhere, with a crappy points total, is a better manager than Wilder because 'different squads, you know'.

I never said that. I don't particularly rate Carrick, but just because you finish with a higher points tally than another manager doesn't mean you're a better manager than them.

Nobody can possibly know for a fact that Carrick, or anyone else, would have done as well as Wilder with our squad, much less that they'd have done better. People are just assuming, and assumptions are never a sound basis for making important decisions, such as changing the first team manager at a professional football club.

Making a major change like that requires careful, considered thought, taking all available facts into account - and assumptions are not facts.

Sure. You also don't know that they would've done worse than Wilder for a fact. It's a forum, people are free to speculate.

The fact is, that only 2 managers achieved a better points total than Wilder in the Championship last season, and no amount of whataboutery regarding different squads will change that fact.

But I don't suppose for a single second, that fact will stop everyone and his brother on this message board, queuing up to stab Wilder in the back with 'yes, but he had a really good squad, you know, so his achievements count for jack shit.'

I'll finish by saying what I said once before on here, which is that I'm just a normal, everyday Blade, who is sick and tired of seeing the achievements of Chris Wilder trashed on a forum of people who should appreciate them the most.

Up The Blades

I'm not trashing him, I appreciate everything he's done for the club. I simply pointed out that your assertion of 'well, Wilder's team had more points than insert random manager's team, so Wilder must be the better manager' isn't always right. He came 3rd with what was probably the 3rd best squad in the championship. Indeed, at one point we were top with a few matches left, and we ended up finishing 3rd. Not to mention the Plymouth Argyle scuffle...

I don't know if another manager would've done better in the same circumstances, I don't claim to. I just think it's silly to dismiss potential manages because Wilder finished with more points than them in the league. Sean Dyche finished higher than Vincent Kompany a year ago. One of those managers is currently managing the German champions, the other one is probably sat on his couch watching reruns of Little Britain.

 

[Blade56]

Have you considered that the story could have come from “a friend of Wilder” and that any prevarication may be the board wondering how best to deal with this? No? Can’t believe it!

Photos of happy smiling manager going on his jollies not knowing that he could be sacked that very day? An agenda at work?

If Wilder knows the board are split on his future, maybe he thinks forcing the situation just as he goes away will provoke a huge fan reaction in his favour swaying the board into keeping him.

Gets his mate to poke the bear from afar while his sits back and admires the chaos for the owners.

Is he taking on the new owners on and trying to set himself up as irreplaceable in his head and a few fanboys? Does he want things done his way and as usual won’t budge?

Plausible.

Still needs replacing

 

[Sean Thornton]

To put that in Formula 1 terms, that's like saying Fernando Alonso is a worse driver than Lando Norris because Norris wins races and Alonso doesn't. Alonso is still a better driver than Norris but he can't win races because he has a vastly inferior car.

On the other hand who is the better manager, Daniel Farke or Chris Wilder?

Who is the better manager, Scott Parker or Chris Wilder?

Not aware of what any of them drive but l do know Gary Teale drove a Bentley………

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Not aware of what any of them drive but l do know Gary Teale drove a Bentley………

Not my words Carol, the words of "Top Gear" magazine.

 

[Keen Blade]

It is worth noting that some of our newly established board member know, as near as makes any difference, fuck all about football. I’ll say that again. Fuck all.

Be very very careful what you wish for folks !!

UTB

Surely it's the ones who know sweet FA who can't see Wilder's misjudgments and just look at 92 points and say keep him

 

[MTBlade]

The points re managers and how they rank is something i was thinking about earlier.

I agree with those who say its nearly impossible to compare managers, because no manager has exactly the same players at the same time (CW has probably done a better job than Pep with this bunch, but CW would struggle with the egos at City).

Managers have different styles and like to play at different tempos, so different players with different skills perform differently for different managers.

I didnt want CW back, as i am person who prefers to not go back and i wasn't too pleased with how things ended last time.

Having said that, i gave the team my support, but never sang 'hes one of our own'.

He pleasently suprised me with the re-build, the results before Christmas were great although performances weren't, but i accepted them as it was a new squad.

Things for me changed after Christmas with a questionable window, several players brought in with very limited impact.

The style of play didnt improve and i often thought, what is our style of play.

I thought we became easy to play against as we had no outlet up top with pace, so we would pass sideways and back, being pressed back as the oppo defenders didnt fear us going in behind. This may explain the results towards the end of the season and a reason why i questioned CoH being dropped

I questioned the Holding/Robbo decision, but put it down to fitness.
I then questioned it again towards the end of the season when Holding played and IMO made us look better.

The rant after Hillsborough heaped pressure on him IMO and im not sure if pressure is a thing CW copes well with (despite being a football manager and a bloody good one several years ago). He seems to thrive when its back to the wall mentality.

I then started to notice him starting to become front and centre when things were going well, but blame every man and his dog when it didnt (you cant have it both ways).

The end of srason drop off was alatming, at a time when we shoukd have pushing on (i guess like Leeds and Burnley did).

I think 'Starman' affected him massively (which it would do) and i wonder if CW made it his mission to get promoted for Starman, unfortunately it didnt happen, which could be why he made the early exit from Wembley (although i think he should have stayed out there).

Being a United supporter also heaps presure, as you are managing the team your mates support ' great if its going well, not so great if its not'.

I think its time for a change, because I want CW to be remembered for the good times and i dont want that tarnished.

Football (like most business) is changing and if you dont move forwards, you go backwards.

Unfortunately since Christmas, i havent seen anything from CW and the team that shows he can move us forward.

Thank you for some great times, but if you do stay, i will support as always but i think its time for a change.

 

[UTB Blade]

To put that in Formula 1 terms, that's like saying Fernando Alonso is a worse driver than Lando Norris because Norris wins races and Alonso doesn't. Alonso is still a better driver than Norris but he can't win races because he has a vastly inferior car.

On the other hand who is the better manager, Daniel Farke or Chris Wilder?

Who is the better manager, Scott Parker or Chris Wilder?

Football players are human beings, not cars, so that analogy is flawed for a start.

As for who's the better manager out of Daniel Farke, Scott Parker and Chris Wilder?

Well, I always think it's wise to trust the judgement of experts, rather than the judgement of lay people, and, fortunately, the football management experts in this country have been giving us their judgements of who are the best football managers in the country, since 1993. So let's take a look at their judgements, shall we?






Do you see Scott Parker or Daniel Farke's names on there at all?

Nope, me neither.

I can see Chris Wilder's name, however.

So, according to the experts, Chris Wilder is a better manager than Scott Parker and Daniel Farke.

Happy days.

 

[PrestwichBlade]

Football players are human beings, not cars, so that analogy is flawed for a start.

As for who's the better manager out of Daniel Farke, Scott Parker and Chris Wilder?

Well, I always think it's wise to trust the judgement of experts, rather than the judgement of lay people, and, fortunately, the football management experts in this country have been giving us their judgements of who are the best football managers in the country, since 1993. So let's take a look at their judgements, shall we?

View attachment 213338
View attachment 213339
View attachment 213340
View attachment 213341

Do you see Scott Parker or Daniel Farke's names on there at all?

Nope, me neither.

I can see Chris Wilder's name, however.

So, according to the experts, Chris Wilder is a better manager than Scott Parker and Daniel Farke.

Happy days.

I guess we're talking about now, not 2019.

 

[UTB Blade]

I guess we're talking about now, not 2019.

I must have missed Scott Parker and Daniel Farke's names appearing on the list of the best managers in the country, more recently than 2019, so I'd better have another look...

Nope, still can't see 'em. Guess they're just not on there at all, post 2019 or otherwise.

 

[Blade45]

I must have missed Scott Parker and Daniel Farke's names appearing on the list of the best managers in the country since 2019, so I'd better have another look...

Nope, still can't see 'em. Guess they're just not on there at all, post 2019 or otherwise.

So winning an award from one specific outlet in 2019 means he's better than Farke and Parker right now?

Is Steve Coppell a better manager than Chris Wilder right now? Coppell won it back-to-back from this specific publication, so surely...?

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Football players are human beings, not cars, so that analogy is flawed for a start.

As for who's the better manager out of Daniel Farke, Scott Parker and Chris Wilder?

Well, I always think it's wise to trust the judgement of experts, rather than the judgement of lay people, and, fortunately, the football management experts in this country have been giving us their judgements of who are the best football managers in the country, since 1993. So let's take a look at their judgements, shall we?

View attachment 213338
View attachment 213339
View attachment 213340
View attachment 213341

Do you see Scott Parker or Daniel Farke's names on there at all?

Nope, me neither.

I can see Chris Wilder's name, however.

So, according to the experts, Chris Wilder is a better manager than Scott Parker and Daniel Farke.

Happy days.

Let's keep it simple and be specific then. This last season in the Championship only, 2024/25.

Who was the better manager, Daniel Farke or Chris Wilder?

Who was the better manager, Scott Parker or Chris Wilder?

 

[PrestwichBlade]

I must have missed Scott Parker and Daniel Farke's names appearing on the list of the best managers in the country more recently than 2019, so I'd better have another look...

Nope, still can't see 'em. Guess they're just not on there at all, post 2019 or otherwise.

I don't think anyone has ever said that incarnation of Wilder was anything less than exceptional, but that really was his peak and it's been pretty much downhill since. LMA manager of the year is one metric, but it's just opinions, much like this forum. But as I say, that was 6 years ago. I know who I'd prefer right now,but they're managing in the premier league next season, so won't be coming here

 

[Railway Blade]

Surely it's the ones who know sweet FA who can't see Wilder's misjudgments and just look at 92 points and say keep him

Or perhaps rather than knowing sweet fa they just might consider 92 points a good starting point. They might be fully aware of his misjudgements but might think he might be able to rectify them , learn from them or at least minimise them given a second go. Perhaps they don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater and take a leap into the unknown.
There's no guarantees either way but the basis is already with this squad and this manager.
That said with what's going off inside of this forum and outside via the media I fear the point is moot now anyhow and a change has been forced.

 

[UTB Blade]

Let's keep it simple and be specific then. This last season in the Championship only, 2024/25.

Who was the better manager, Daniel Farke or Chris Wilder?

Who was the better manager, Scott Parker or Chris Wilder?

In my previous reply to you I meant to refer you to my answer to Blade45 in post 103, but obviously overlooked it, so I'll copy and paste the relevant bit here:

"The fact is, that only 2 managers achieved a better points total than Wilder in the Championship last season, and no amount of whataboutery regarding different squads will change that fact."

In other words, I'm not the one arguing that managers with lower points totals are better managers than managers with higher points totals.

My time on this thread has been spent arguing the opposite, ie that better managers get better points totals, only to be told by the others on this board that this is incorrect. According to these aforementioned others, Chris Wilder was a worse manager than Michael Carrick last season, despite amassing 28 points more than him, because of the squad differences. Therefore, according to others on this board, Chris Wilder must be a better manager than Scott Parker and Daniel Farke, because they had better squads than us. My point is, nobody can know this for a fact. I'm no more going to assume that Wilder would have done as well as Farke and Parker (sounds like the name of an old-fashioned furniture shop!), if he had their squads, than I am to assume Carrick would have done better than Wilder, if he had our squad.

We can only deal in facts, not assumptions - that's what I've been trying to say for what seems like a lifetime, now, on this thread!

 

[UTB Blade]

I don't think anyone has ever said that incarnation of Wilder was anything less than exceptional, but that really was his peak and it's been pretty much downhill since. LMA manager of the year is one metric, but it's just opinions, much like this forum. But as I say, that was 6 years ago. I know who I'd prefer right now,but they're managing in the premier league next season, so won't be coming here

But it's nothing like this forum. The LMA Manager of the Year Award is the opinions of experts, not the opinions of know-nowts on a message board - and, yes, I include myself in the know-nowts bracket.

That's my point - we can only make sound judgements on important decisions like changing the manager, based on facts and the judgement of experts, not based on assumptions and the opinions of we know-nowts on this board.

 

[Blade45]

In my previous reply to you I meant to refer you to my answer to Blade45 in post 103, but obviously overlooked it, so I'll copy and paste the relevant bit here:

"The fact is, that only 2 managers achieved a better points total than Wilder in the Championship last season, and no amount of whataboutery regarding different squads will change that fact."

In other words, I'm not the one arguing that managers with lower points totals are better managers than managers with higher points totals.

My time on this thread has been spent arguing the opposite, ie that better managers get better points totals, only to be told by the others on this board that this is incorrect. According to these aforementioned others, Chris Wilder was a worse manager than Michael Carrick last season, despite amassing 28 points more than him, because of the squad differences. Therefore, according to others on this board, Chris Wilder must be a better manager than Scott Parker and Daniel Farke, because they had better squads than us. My point is, nobody can know this for a fact. I'm no more going to assume that Wilder would have done as well as Farke and Parker (sounds like the name of an old-fashioned furniture shop!), if he had their squads, than I am to assume Carrick would have done better than Wilder, if he had our squad.

We can only deal in facts, not assumptions - that's what I've been trying to say for what seems like a lifetime, now, on this thread!

Sorry - this is a misrepresentation of what everyone has been saying. I haven't said Carrick was better than Wilder, seemingly only one person has said they want Carrick to be the new manager. Your expectations as a manager are set based on the strength of your squad. Michael Carrick didn't have a promotion-level squad to work with, so it's extremely unrealistic to suggest that the only reason he should theoretically ruled out of being Sheffield United manager is because he finished lower in the table than Wilder, instead of Carrick's numerous tactical shortcomings. Wilder had the second or third best squad in the championship (you can decide whether we have a better squad than Burnley), and we finished 3rd. He met expectations or if you're being really cruel, which I don't want to be, he underperformed. If Russell Martin kept Southampton up this season in 17th, I would've considered him to be a better manager than, say, Ruben Amorim, even though Amorim would've finished higher, because of the difference in quality between Southampton and Man United's squads. Their expectations on what success looks like is different because of the quality of their squads. Or at the very least, keeping Southampton in the premiership to have been a better managerial achievement than Amorim leading Man United to 15th, despite Man United finishing higher.

I don't think finishing above someone in the table makes you a better manager than someone who finished lower than you. Graham Potter had Chelsea 11th when he was sacked, above Julen Lopetegui at Wolves. Lopetegui, for all his faults, is a proven winner and a former Spain and Real Madrid manager. Yet he was below Potter in the table...?

But it's nothing like this forum. The LMA Manager of the Year Award is the opinions of experts, not the opinions of know-nowts on a message board - and, yes, I include myself in the know-nowts bracket.

That's my point - we can only make sound judgements on important decisions like changing the manager, based on facts and the judgement of experts, not based on assumptions and the opinions of we know-nowts on this board.

If we're judging Wilder to be a better football manager than Parker or Farke because of the opinion of footballing experts back in 2019 (Wilder no doubt deserved to win the award at the time, but it isn't 2019 anymore. Besides, footballing 'experts' also gave the Ballon d'or to Michael Owen over Raul and Oliver Kahn, so they are just as likely to know nowt as you or I), then why isn't Steve Coppell a better manager right now than Wilder? He won it twice, back-to-back, I don't think Wilder's done that.