Outgoing? Chris Wilder

[UTB Blade]

I'm not sure I've seen much of "hellbent" on replacing. Just more questioning if he's the right man to take us forward.

You say "replacing a proven manager". If we still had the 2016-2020 version of Wilder then I'd be arguing with every single person on here saying he should go. The truth, unfortunate as it is, is that this version of Wilder is so far removed from that version that I honestly don't see a way forward.

I get that it's a results business and taken on that view then this season has mainly been a success due to the points accumulated but I honestly question anyone who has been happy with the way we've played for the most part and enjoyed the games. We've scraped past teams we should be absolutely pasting with the players we have and played some of the most negative, dire style of football I've seen at The Lane.

He was also given an absolute fortune in January in relative terms and somehow managed to make us almost worse.

I won't be the only one with this view. I'd hazard a guess the owners are thinking this way as well hence why he looks like a goner.

I honestly don't want anyone else managing my club. His 1st spell gave me some of the best moments I've experienced as a Blade (1st game in 1983) and if he could somehow get back to the 16-20 version of Wilder then I'd be delighted if he stayed however I honestly think his ego means he probably doesn't take much blame for this season and won't see a reason to change much if he stays in charge.

Based on that, for me, it's a massive thank you for all he's done but I'd like to see a change in direction.

Thank you for giving me a proper answer. I'm slightly confused about whether or not you really do want a new manager, though, as you finish by saying that you'd like to see a change in direction, but earlier you say "I honestly don't want anyone else managing my club"? Either way, it's nice to see someone able to talk about potentially changing managers, whilst still appreciating what CW has done for us.

 

[thehet]

If we assume Hamer, Souza and Anel will leave, and that 92pts next year will get you up automatically I’d like to know which available manager is going to come in and achieve that in their first season with a team that needs at least 7 new players adding.

 

[Le Cynique]

Maybe I don't consider the loads of answers given by a lot of people all over the forum, 'proper'.

Maybe that’s because you’ve already decided that whoever comes in, regardless of who they are, is destined to take the club backwards and so you won’t consider that any suggestion is proper.

 

[54yrblade]

The worry i had about winning the play off was that the owners would be obliged to keep wilder , or at least until Xmas or so when we'd be staring at relegation.
Whilst I appreciate the 92 points, and once got us to 9th arguments they are as tiresome as the 3000 to qpr from the other lot .
The owners have ambition , for that we should he grateful.
Perhaps a change may not work , we can't say sticking with cw will either, past results are no guarantee of future results .
If they decide on a change it'll be not just wilder but the whole 1st team coaching staff, a new setup perhaps with a dof .
If it happens we should ge grateful wilder gave us some good times and respect him for that.
However I'll be glad to see the end of the Chris's mates culture and the antics ,the rants at supporters and players alike .
He's responsible for alot of good times and success but needs to take responsibility for the less good stuff .

He never accepts responsibility for the bad results or negatives, one of his least endearing traits, but always, always front and centre of attention when it's good.
Some of us get it. He hasn't fooled us all.

A little humility goes a long way in any line of business. If he was going to change, he would have. He can't.

 

[Le Cynique]

If we assume Hamer, Souza and Anel will leave, and that 92pts next year will get you up automatically I’d like to know which available manager is going to come in and achieve that in their first season with a team that needs at least 7 new players adding.

Maybe it’s not about short-term thinking like that, but actually building something tangible over a longer time period so we’re not constantly stuck in this cycle?

 

[MayorOJC]

Ai/Data driven signings seem to be our future. I was told a while back that Tom Cannon signing was the owners and through AI and not Wilder or the scouting team. Thought it was probably bullshit tbh but I saw Alan Knills son on Twitter saying that the owners have made three signings using AI, Cannon, Caceres, Nwachukwu, so I’m guessing there is truth in it after all and is a little bit worrying that they’d spend 10m or whatever Cannon cost on the advice of AI. Don’t mind the other signings though as they are cheap gambles.

Id be amazed if Tom Cannon was a data analysis / AI singing. His underlying stats were awful even before he joined.

 

[jt64]

That's what annoys me about football you get rewarded for failure.
One day some of these owners are going to get together and really put some conditions in contracts.
If I'd have called my customers idiots ( or whatever he came out with) I'd have been shown the door without ceremony and severance pay .

They do put conditions in contracts. Exactly the same as if I slagged my employer on X I would be expecting a call from HR on Monday. You've just got to be extremely sure that if you try to enforce said conditions, that you will win in court if (and when) it goes there, otherwise not only are you likely going to be on the book for the full amount of wages anyway, you're also going to be paying for two sets of highly expensive lawyers, for any negative publicity you get from airing all your dirty laundry in public, and probably additional costs given a loss in court is likely enough to amount to defamation one way or another.

 

[thehet]

Maybe it’s not about short-term thinking like that, but actually building something tangible over a longer time period so we’re not constantly stuck in this cycle?

Sorry what? Sacking a manager who achieved 92 points because it’s seen as a failure is the epitome of short term thinking.

We hardly had a team at the end of last season.

All of a sudden we’re happy to accept maybe an 8th place finish because of some long term claptrap.

The forum is nuts.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

I meant someone in the sense of an unspecified someone. That's a lot of my concern - that people just keep saying things like 'someone modern', 'up and coming', 'someone with fresh ideas' without making any realistic suggestions of a manager who's likely to be better than the one we've got - which is precisely what makes me so concerned that we'll end up with someone considerably worse than the one we've got.

My worry is that people are so wedded to the idea of 'modern, up and coming, fresh way of thinking' etc, that they're overlooking the very real probability that this wonderful new manager they're longing for, doesn't exist. It's fantasy, and we'll just end up with someone worse than CW, chasing a pipe dream

Just because we can't name them doesn't mean they don't exist or aren't out there. Had you heard of Daniel Farke before he took over Norwich, or David Wagner when he took over Huddersfield, or Thomas Frank when he took over Brentford?

Hopefully the new owners can find similar to us instead of going for the usual names like Sean ****ing Dyche. Our fans are often so rooted in the history and DNA of this club that they're afraid of change, or dismiss it because it went wrong in the past. Bryan Robson was the wrong man but would've been a great director of football but only Chelsea and Spurs were using them at the time. Weir tried to pick up the best young players from Premier League academies and develop them into players, a job he does now to great effect at Brighton as Sporting Director. This would have required a few seasons but could have worked. We gave him a handful of games before McCabe shat his pants and pulled the trigger. Jokanovic was mis-sold the club and not backed in the transfer market. He was also guilty of square pegs in round holes, but when he reverted to type and changed formation to suit what he had we started winning, but the club shat it's pants and sacked him anyway. Who knows how that might have worked out.

The game has moved on and our club and a lot of fans haven't. It's why average players who run around a lot get hero worshipped despite having limited ability. It's why people never acknowledge what a great job Danny Wilson did and rarely speak of him other than with disdain, despite him being one of our best managers and first to turn us into a proper attack minded footballing team.

I'm all for a modern manager and a modern approach as it's painful watching teams like Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth come from beneath us, over take us and establish themselves in the top flight while we merely flirt with it and fail because we refuse to change our DNA and refuse to adapt to the modern game. We have a small club mentality with a big club stature.

 

[UTB Blade]

Given you plenty of names. I think the issue lies in it not being the name "Chris Wilder"

Neither you, nor anyone else on this forum, has given any names at all, of anyone sufficiently likely to be better than the incumbent, to make it worth the risk of making a change at this point, imo.

You think the issue lies in it not being the name "Chris Wilder", whereas I think the issue lies in this forum having more than its fair share of ungrateful tossers, who wouldn't know a decent manager if they saw one staring them in the face, or if they saw one achieving promotion after promotion, or if they saw one being handed an award for being the best manager in the country by Alex Ferguson and Gareth Southgate.

 

[Panini]

Wilder made a big thing about personality then signed several players out of control. And it was ironic given his antics embarrassing the club and himself on and off the pitch

"Do as I say not as I do" is Wilder's mantra

 

[Aston max]

Id be amazed if Tom Cannon was a data analysis / AI singing. His underlying stats were awful even before he joined.

I actually get why this lad cost 10m ( mind you I wouldn't have paid it ) he's only 23 and quite athletic I think for wilder he's a younger version of Moore!!
My Leicester supporting mate says he was highly thought of at the king power but ffp is coming into it for them, he's heard rumours that souttar is back here at a fee when he's fit ?
A lot of them don't think they'll be challenging top 6 due to a lot of the players will have to be moved on ! To avoid points deductions etc

 

[thehet]

Just because we can't name them doesn't mean they don't exist or aren't out there. Had you heard of Daniel Farke before he took over Norwich, or David Wagner when he took over Huddersfield, or Thomas Frank when he took over Brentford?

Hopefully the new owners can find similar to us instead of going for the usual names like Sean ****ing Dyche. Our fans are often so rooted in the history and DNA of this club that they're afraid of change, or dismiss it because it went wrong in the past. Bryan Robson was the wrong man but would've been a great director of football but only Chelsea and Spurs were using them at the time. Weir tried to pick up the best young players from Premier League academies and develop them into players, a job he does now to great effect at Brighton as Sporting Director. This would have required a few seasons but could have worked. We gave him a handful of games before McCabe shat his pants and pulled the trigger. Jokanovic was mis-sold the club and not backed in the transfer market. He was also guilty of square pegs in round holes, but when he reverted to type and changed formation to suit what he had we started winning, but the club shat it's pants and sacked him anyway. Who knows how that might have worked out.

The game has moved on and our club and a lot of fans haven't. It's why average players who run around a lot get hero worshipped despite having limited ability. It's why people never acknowledge what a great job Danny Wilson did and rarely speak of him other than with disdain, despite him being one of our best managers and first to turn us into a proper attack minded footballing team.

I'm all for a modern manager and a modern approach as it's painful watching teams like Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth come from beneath us, over take us and establish themselves in the top flight while we merely flirt with it and fail because we refuse to change our DNA and refuse to adapt to the modern game. We have a small club mentality with a big club stature.

You know Farke lost the playoff final last year too? Did you also see what happened to the team that beat them in it?

This is just a total overreaction.

 

[S64 Blade]

Sorry what? Sacking a manager who achieved 92 points because it’s seen as a failure is the epitome of short term thinking.

We hardly had a team at the end of last season.

All of a sudden we’re happy to accept maybe an 8th place finish because of some long term claptrap.

The forum is nuts.

If we are going with long-term thinking instead, how does Wilder better last season? How does he then better our last two seasons in the Premier League? What signs have there been post 2020 that he’s a manager that can build anything long-term?

 

[Le Cynique]

Sorry what? Sacking a manager who achieved 92 points because it’s seen as a failure is the epitome of short term thinking.

We hardly had a team at the end of last season.

All of a sudden we’re happy to accept maybe an 8th place finish because of some long term claptrap.

The forum is nuts.

I respectfully disagree, and suggest that we need to look beyond the points total of this season and look at the tactical approach, the recruitment, the team selection and what we expect from leadership on and off the field if we’re to achieve our goal of becoming a long-term fixture in the top flight.

If we were to stick with Wilder and next season we had more of the same attritional grinding out of results, playing favourite players in the wrong position just to get them on the pitch and mardy reactions to things not going his way, and by some miracle managed to get promoted, we’d be utterly, utterly fucked the season afterwards in the Premier League and most likely come straight back down again.

 

[Danetheblade]

Neither you, nor anyone else on this forum, has given any names at all, of anyone sufficiently likely to be better than the incumbent, to make it worth the risk of making a change at this point, imo.

You think the issue lies in it not being the name "Chris Wilder", whereas I think the issue lies in this forum having more than its fair share of ungrateful tossers, who wouldn't know a decent manager if they saw one staring them in the face, or if they saw one achieving promotion after promotion, or if they saw one being handed an award for being the best manager in the country by Alex Ferguson and Gareth Southgate.

You're telling me a bloke who's just completely bottled promotion, spent millions on players that made us worse (outside Hamza), is incapable of change, flat out will not work with the new ownerships ideas on player transfers could be better than some of the managers that've been suggested?

You're talking about awards that were won years ago. Literally years ago. I'm really sorry to piss on your chips. he's not the same manager, he's not even remotely close to that manager. (That manager that slagged the club, fans and every single aspect of the club off before fucking off out the fire exit).

I'm really sorry to say, but there's life after Wilder, unfortunately for you, it might just bring us into the 21st century.

 

[Le Cynique]

Neither you, nor anyone else on this forum, has given any names at all, of anyone sufficiently likely to be better than the incumbent, to make it worth the risk of making a change at this point, imo.

You think the issue lies in it not being the name "Chris Wilder", whereas I think the issue lies in this forum having more than its fair share of ungrateful tossers, who wouldn't know a decent manager if they saw one staring them in the face, or if they saw one achieving promotion after promotion, or if they saw one being handed an award for being the best manager in the country by Alex Ferguson and Gareth Southgate.

In all fairness I don’t think anyone was calling for his head then, because he was an entirely different manager and person. People are judging him, quite rightly, on his outputs now, and he’s coming up short. You can’t constantly hark back to what he’s done in the past and ignore the present.

 

[jt64]

I actually get why this lad cost 10m ( mind you I wouldn't have paid it ) he's only 23 and quite athletic I think for wilder he's a younger version of Moore!!
My Leicester supporting mate says he was highly thought of at the king power but ffp is coming into it for them, he's heard rumours that souttar is back here at a fee when he's fit ?
A lot of them don't think they'll be challenging top 6 due to a lot of the players will have to be moved on ! To avoid points deductions etc

I would imagine that in the event of a points deduction (as they may be getting anyway) they just do what Leeds did and loan out a lot of their higher earners who are too good for the Championship, just retain players good enough for a comfortable mid table finish in an effective dead season, reset the books then piss the league in 26/27

 

[thehet]

I respectfully disagree, and suggest that we need to look beyond the points total of this season and look at the tactical approach, the recruitment, the team selection and what we expect from leadership on and off the field if we’re to achieve our goal of becoming a long-term fixture in the top flight.

If we were to stick with Wilder and next season we had more of the same attritional grinding out of results, playing favourite players in the wrong position just to get them on the pitch and mardy reactions to things not going his way, and by some miracle managed to get promoted, we’d be utterly, utterly fucked the season afterwards in the Premier League and most likely come straight back down again.

Believe it or not, like it not, the points total was achieved due to, the tactical approach, the recruitment, the team selection etc that you talk of.

“Boring” Burnley ground out far more results than we did over the course of the season, are they sacking Parker?

Can you please go back and take a look at the squad we had prior to signing anybody.

If Wilder goes, what is your measure for success for whoever is his replacement? Pretty football? Let’s be like Swansea.
Promotion at all costs? Let’s blow the bank like Leeds.
It’s all cake and eat it, and it’s bollocks.

 

[nopigfansintown]

He never accepts responsibility for the bad results or negatives, one of his least endearing traits, but always, always front and centre of attention when it's good.
Some of us get it. He hasn't fooled us all.

A little humility goes a long way in any line of business. If he was going to change, he would have. He can't.

No great manager does. It's a total myth that they do. A top manager never gives his players a public 'out'. You don't do that or you create an excuse culture and undermine your own authority. Managers also need a big ego. It's a prerequisite for a top manager.

A small proportion of our fanbase wants an ego massage where the manager says "I got the lineup/formation wrong today, xyz on twatter called it right". Never going to happen. If it does be very afraid. I'd love to see all these examples of Klopp, Mourinho, Pep, Shankly, B Clough, Ferguson etc etc blaming themselves for defeats. Bassett, Warnock, and Harris will do...

 

[raul]

Looks like a fair few need to decide if they support Sheffield United or Chris Wilder.

 

[nopigfansintown]

If we assume Hamer, Souza and Anel will leave, and that 92pts next year will get you up automatically I’d like to know which available manager is going to come in and achieve that in their first season with a team that needs at least 7 new players adding.

United are less than mid rebuild. They overachieved last season. It's a huge job again. The likelihood is down the table not up it.

 

[thehet]

United are less than mid rebuild. They overachieved last season. It's a huge job again. The likelihood is down the table not up it.

And if you bring in a new manager with new ideas who didn’t bring in the previous players you’re even further behind in the build.

 

[nopigfansintown]

And if you bring in a new manager with new ideas who didn’t bring in the previous players you’re even further behind in the build.

Yep.

 

[paidsy]

Looks like a fair few need to decide if they support Sheffield United or Chris Wilder.

The cult is becoming strong

 

[nopigfansintown]

Looks like a fair few need to decide if they support Sheffield United or Chris Wilder.

The two can overlap.

 

[FTPE]

Maybe it’s not about short-term thinking like that, but actually building something tangible over a longer time period so we’re not constantly stuck in this cycle?

By cycle you mean promotion and relegation? Do you know how many sides would LOVE to have played in the top flight as long as we have?
We all want to be a Brighton or a Brentford, but there's a lot of similar size clubs that would LOVE to be a United.

 

[Le Cynique]

Believe it or not, like it not, the points total was achieved due to, the tactical approach, the recruitment, the team selection etc that you talk of.

“Boring” Burnley ground out far more results than we did over the course of the season, are they sacking Parker?

Can you please go back and take a look at the squad we had prior to signing anybody.

If Wilder goes, what is your measure for success for whoever is his replacement? Pretty football? Let’s be like Swansea.
Promotion at all costs? Let’s blow the bank like Leeds.
It’s all cake and eat it, and it’s bollocks.

I’d argue that in part it was despite of those things. It’s all ifs and buts, but who knows what total we might have got if we’d tried to score more, if we’d played players in their preferred positions, if we’d not capitulated against teams who, on paper, were not as good as ours?

My measure of success would be a clear and adaptable game plan, where we played players based on the positions they’re best in, and where you could see that we were trying to work as a team rather than rely on rare moments of sublime brilliance from one or two players. One where we were building a squad for the future and where the team was more than the sum of its parts, where fans are entertained. Kind of like what Wilder mk1 did before he turned into this shadow of his former self. I don’t want us to make 20 sideways and backwards passes before giving the ball to Cooper to lump up the pitch, leading to a loss of possession. I want to see players take more shots rather than slowly allowing the opponent defenders to get into position and take the sting out of our attack. I want a manager who doesn’t slag off the fans after making a tactical mistake. All of these things would be an improvement and allow us to start to build momentum and a squad capable of more than abject capitulation when things don’t go their way.

 

[vas borbokis]

You're telling me a bloke who's just completely bottled promotion, spent millions on players that made us worse (outside Hamza), is incapable of change, flat out will not work with the new ownerships ideas on player transfers could be better than some of the managers that've been suggested?

You're talking about awards that were won years ago. Literally years ago. I'm really sorry to piss on your chips. he's not the same manager, he's not even remotely close to that manager. (That manager that slagged the club, fans and every single aspect of the club off before fucking off out the fire exit).

I'm really sorry to say, but there's life after Wilder, unfortunately for you, it might just bring us into the 21st century.

Or league 1

 

[Danetheblade]

By cycle you mean promotion and relegation? Do you know how many sides would LOVE to have played in the top flight as long as we have?
We all want to be a Brighton or a Brentford, but there's a lot of similar size clubs that would LOVE to be a United.

That's a bit of a redundant comment. I couldn't give a shit who would love to be united. I'm more interested in seeing us perform to the best of our ability, not be hamstrung because someone refuses to come into the 21st century.