Recruitment - Swings and Roundabouts .

[Isaw Joeshaw]

We are certainly not the only club in the world to have made errors in the signing of players , the example of the self proclaimed “ Greatest Club in the World “ Man Utd . being the perfect example of this I recent times . In our case , I know it’s early days but the signing of Tom Cannon , especially for such a considerable fee for a Championship club , is already looking like a mistake .

Based on his previous stats and conversations I had with a Stoke City fan who is a close friend of mine , I had serious concerns that this might not be a good idea and expressed those thoughts on here before we signed him . I strongly suspect that he will fall into the category of one of those of which some fans will say “ There’s a player in there somewhere “ and 3 years down the line we are still waiting for that player to emerge . I hope I’m wrong .

But looking at our recruitment on the basis of swings and roundabouts the fact remains that we have signed him , Harrison Burrows , Michael Cooper and Tyrese Campbell for a grand total of around £ 17 million which has to considered as remarkable value for money in anybody’s book .

The last two alone are worth at least more than double that imo and congratulations are due to those involved in making these acquisitions .

 

[steve26272]

He’s come in at a time Ty is undroppable, Brewster hitting form and the team are gelled - would be easier in a weird way to go to a struggling team where he would become the focal point

That said, I’m not sure on the signing, isn’t fast and aggressive like Campbell, or big and hold up player like Moore - maybe CW wanted something different, question is, what is he

Full preseason will deliver that answer

 

[finlaytheblade]

He’s come in at a time Ty is undroppable, Brewster hitting form and the team are gelled - would be easier in a weird way to go to a struggling team where he would become the focal point

That said, I’m not sure on the signing, isn’t fast and aggressive like Campbell, or big and hold up player like Moore - maybe CW wanted something different, question is, what is he

Full preseason will deliver that answer

Yes we hope it's not a big mistake.
It's as though the money was burning a hole in his pocket CW.
Like other blades I wait to see where his strengths are as he is not fast ,aggressive or a really physical player.
Hopefully we have seen something in him which we can develop!.
On what we have seen so far prem defenders will swallow him up and blow him out in bubbles.

 

[BladeInIreland]

There is a player in there, the problem for me is he's a player that doesn't seem to suit the way we play, this was obvious before he signed. However Wilder isn't an idiot and did stress in an interview he's aware of what those strengths are so maybe he's part of some longer term plan.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

We are certainly not the only club in the world to have made errors in the signing of players , the example of the self proclaimed “ Greatest Club in the World “ Man Utd . being the perfect example of this I recent times . In our case , I know it’s early days but the signing of Tom Cannon , especially for such a considerable fee for a Championship club , is already looking like a mistake .

Based on his previous stats and conversations I had with a Stoke City fan who is a close friend of mine , I had serious concerns that this might not be a good idea and expressed those thoughts on here before we signed him . I strongly suspect that he will fall into the category of one of those of which some fans will say “ There’s a player in there somewhere “ and 3 years down the line we are still waiting for that player to emerge . I hope I’m wrong .

But looking at our recruitment on the basis of swings and roundabouts the fact remains that we have signed him , Harrison Burrows , Michael Cooper and Tyrese Campbell for a grand total of around £ 17 million which has to considered as remarkable value for money in anybody’s book .

The last two alone are worth at least more than double that imo and congratulations are due to those involved in making these acquisitions .

When you say Copper and Campbell are twice that, are you suggesting they are worth £34mil each or £34mil combined?

 

[Isar]

If we go up, and he doesn't fit in with the recruitment, then we will move him on.
Promotion could see a few players in and out of the club.
In the grand scheme of things the transfer fee was not excessive in today's inflated market.

 

[Jimmy Fleck]

Maybe we just trust wilder and the recruitment team who have so far done pretty well this season. He’s quicker than some fans realise and is still young. Campbell is on fire atm so was always gonna be tough displacing him.

 

[YES Blade]

There is no way we could rely on Campbell, Moore and Brewster staying fit the second half of the season. Their injury records this season and before meant we needed to sign another striker.

Obviously there is a debate to be had on whether Cannon was the correct signing, but he’s here now and time will tell with him.

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

When you say Copper and Campbell are twice that, are you suggesting they are worth £34mil each or £34mil combined?

I admire the OP's optimism, but I'd suggest that Cooper & Campbell combined are currently around £25m, but there's 7 games left of the season, so both could rise.

 

[Sheffsteel]

We are certainly not the only club in the world to have made errors in the signing of players , the example of the self proclaimed “ Greatest Club in the World “ Man Utd . being the perfect example of this I recent times . In our case , I know it’s early days but the signing of Tom Cannon , especially for such a considerable fee for a Championship club , is already looking like a mistake .

Based on his previous stats and conversations I had with a Stoke City fan who is a close friend of mine , I had serious concerns that this might not be a good idea and expressed those thoughts on here before we signed him . I strongly suspect that he will fall into the category of one of those of which some fans will say “ There’s a player in there somewhere “ and 3 years down the line we are still waiting for that player to emerge . I hope I’m wrong .

But looking at our recruitment on the basis of swings and roundabouts the fact remains that we have signed him , Harrison Burrows , Michael Cooper and Tyrese Campbell for a grand total of around £ 17 million which has to considered as remarkable value for money in anybody’s book .

The last two alone are worth at least more than double that imo and congratulations are due to those involved in making these acquisitions .

You were against this signing from the start…..so you’re not exactly neutral.
Find it bizarre how there’s so much support for Brewster, who’s been the worse signing in our history but some are wanting to write-off Cannon.
Surely both players should be supported as best we can, within reason.
Always been slightly critical of Brewster due to consistently poor performances but still supported him becuase he has the excuse of injuries and he’s always had a great attitude giving 100%. Can understand criticism of Cannon but he has the excuse of he’s hardly played yet so can’t be judged with any accuracy.

Agree there’s slight concerns but he’s yet not had any chances to score, so it’s too early to make a proper judgement.
Altho it is noticeable that when Campbell is playing we look dangerous, when he’s replaced by Cannon then we generally stop looking dangerous.
It’s not helped Cannon that Campbell looks a fantastic player, who is on the same wave length as O’Hare, Hamer and Brewster.

Also to be honest £10 million isn’t that much really for a PL team, it’s less than half what was paid for Brewster and less than what was paid for McBurnie.
The logic is he’s still young with high potential, so there’s likely to be a good re-sale value. Cannon was bought as insurance, in case Campbell and Moore were injured and with Brewster out of form, we could have been facing the end of the season with Ryan One as our main striker.

Think we all need to learn from experience. It was only 3 months ago Brewster was terrible, a lot worse than Cannon.
He’s moved into midfield, still not great but slowly improved and last match (Coventry) was his best performance in 4 years at the club.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

When you say Copper and Campbell are twice that, are you suggesting they are worth £34mil each or £34mil combined?

Over £34 million combined .

 

[Sheffsteel]

Over £34 million combined .

It’s difficult to put valuations on players with huge potential.
Campbell has the potential to become an establish PL standard striker where as Cooper could potentially become England keeper.
They’re both probably worth £15 million each but they could soon be worth so much more….so I’d reject £34 million for both.

For example we have Sereki, he’s very raw and sometimes his defending is league 1 standard, sometimes he’s great at defending.
However his big strength is going forward, due to his athleticism and direct dribbling style he causes total havoc amongst Championship defences.
He comes on as sub and totally changes the game in our favour…….that is a rare gift that very few can do.

If Man Utd offered £20 million for Sereki would you sell?
It would be so tempting because currently based on what he’s done, he’s not yet even worth £10 million
But he could go on to be a £50 million plus player…..so i’d reject a £20 million bid.

Same with Arblaster and Peck too……due to their high ceiling I’d reject £20 million bids for this two too.

 

[Snake]

We are certainly not the only club in the world to have made errors in the signing of players , the example of the self proclaimed “ Greatest Club in the World “ Man Utd . being the perfect example of this I recent times . In our case , I know it’s early days but the signing of Tom Cannon , especially for such a considerable fee for a Championship club , is already looking like a mistake .

Based on his previous stats and conversations I had with a Stoke City fan who is a close friend of mine , I had serious concerns that this might not be a good idea and expressed those thoughts on here before we signed him . I strongly suspect that he will fall into the category of one of those of which some fans will say “ There’s a player in there somewhere “ and 3 years down the line we are still waiting for that player to emerge . I hope I’m wrong .

But looking at our recruitment on the basis of swings and roundabouts the fact remains that we have signed him , Harrison Burrows , Michael Cooper and Tyrese Campbell for a grand total of around £ 17 million which has to considered as remarkable value for money in anybody’s book .

The last two alone are worth at least more than double that imo and congratulations are due to those involved in making these acquisitions .

I couldn't agree more. Every manager (including the very best) has had their fair share of poor signings. Although it's far too early to truly class Cannon as a poor signings, well, I agree, it's not looking good for him atm.

The thing that pisses me off though is whenever the Wilder knockers use players like Brewster, McBurnie, Robinson, Cannon (and 1 or 2 others) as a bat to bash Wilder with, they never offset those signings with the fantastic VFM signings that he has made - not just this season, but over the nigh on 8 years (exc the break) that he's been here. With the proof in the pudding of taking us from League 1 to 3 seasons in prem and on the verge of another promotion to prem.

Unfortunately it's generally been his big money signings that haven't really paid off, but don't let this obscure the fact that overall Wilder has created far more wealth for the club - through transfers leading to success on the pitch - than he's spent on transfer fees. He has a very positive net balance in my book.

 

[Selly]

Ultimately the question often has to be - can I improve the squad by more than I am losing by selling this player?

Best recent example of this 15m for Brooks - that was a lot of cash for a player who had had a good season in the Championship - selling him mean that we could bring in Egan, Norwood, and perhaps were also able to bring in Hendo, Madine, Hogan, Dowell on loan.

Given what has transpired since then, I would say that was worth it.

 

[Selly]

Unfortunately it's generally been his big money signings that haven't really paid off, but don't let this obscure the fact that overall Wilder has created far more wealth for the club - through transfers leading to success on the pitch - than he's spent on transfer fees. He has a very positive net balance in my book.

I do wonder whether this is where a DoF would help - but I get the sense Wilder might not want that.

For me Cannon is effectively a 10m insurance policy - we needed another forward. Warnock did the same in 2006 with Horsfield and Akinbiyi (a decision that allowed Shipperly to have effectively a month off and he came back looking far better for it).

If Cannon allows us to bring off Campbell after 60 mins - meaning he is fit for the run in - then perhaps he's done what we needed him to.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

At least if we get to play offs we have more than one striker

Cannon has gotta be better than gonna Wembley with old man Porter up top.

 

[themaninblack]

I’m hopeful that the lad will come good.
Physically he reminds me of Clive Mendonca; have I misremembered

 

[BalticBlade]

Maybe the reason Campbell is playing so well is because he's got the likes of Cannon and Moore breathing down his neck (not in a weird way). With our January additions we have really benefitted from that extra competition for places.

 

[Shadota]

I really don't see the point in hanging Cannon out to dry when his opportunities to impress have been minimal at best so far.

Hull (H) - Played 90 mins after his signing was confirmed a day earlier. Minimal time to integrate with the squad and learn his role. Playing in an extremely changed XI due to injuries and fatigue. Nobody performed well - Cannon left isolated often due to our weary side being mostly incapable of moving the ball forward in any kind of positive manner.

Derby (A) - Started, and subbed after 79 mins. Created the only goal for BBD with a smart run down the left side of the box. Any impact on the game petered out as we gradually relinquished control of the game and held out for the win.

Portsmouth (H) - Started, and subbed after 82 mins. No goal contributions. Played a somewhat unfamiliar role off of a focal striker (Campbell), a positioned he had not occupied prior to this game all season. Replaced by Holding late on as we looked to retain a 1 goal lead.

Middlesbrough (H) - Started, and subbed at half time. No goal contributions. Was involved in one of our most impressive halves of football all season, as we looked to put boro to the sword. Replaced by Campbell at the break.

Leeds (H) - Subbed on with 30mins to play. No goal contributions. Part of a double change, coming on with Hamer to replace Campbell and JRS. Was left isolated as Leeds upped the pressure on our back line. Poor distribution left him fighting for scraps against multiple Leeds defenders on several occasions. Maybe could have done a little better at times, but it is (in my opinion) safe to say that the introduction of a blatantly unfit Hamer was more detrimental to our chances in that game than anything Cannon did.

QPR (A), Preston (H), S6 (A) and Coventry (H) are all pretty similar - brought on as a sub, as we were starting to ease up and hold onto our lead. Did have a couple of moments vs Coventry where he could have threatened the goal, but failed to meaningfully do so.

I think he's got potential. Having looked at some of the goals he's scored, he looks more of a poacher-type. Typically doesn't have many touches of the ball before getting the shot off to score. Has the ability to hit the target from range (including from free kicks). Considering the tactical mentality Wilder has spoken of wanting to achieve during both of his spells in charge (creating high % opportunities), on paper he'd fit into a team playing that way quite comfortably. However, most of the opportunities of that nature we are creating currently, are showing up while he is not on the pitch. And when he does get on, we're easing off the gas, and he's left to pick at scraps.

I don't think he's an inherently bad signing. I do think we signed him at an incredibly inopportune time, as he is not going to get the service a player like him needs, whilst the likes of Campbell and Brewster are doing as well as they are.

 

[MayorOJC]

I'd be surprised if he makes it here, but he's young and has an okay record at Championship level. He's resalable if we go up.

 

[Norwood's 6 iron]

You were against this signing from the start…..so you’re not exactly neutral.
Find it bizarre how there’s so much support for Brewster, who’s been the worse signing in our history but some are wanting to write-off Cannon.
Surely both players should be supported as best we can, within reason.

Couldn't agree more.
It just amazes me that fans still want to knock some of our players. We're top of the league and after last season you would hope that they would enjoy watching us win football matches.
Sometimes I think they are just seeking attention, like a naughty child.
Wilder made it abundantly clear that we needed players to push those currently in the first team. Cannon desperately needs game time, coming on as a sub for 15 minutes isn't enough. It will turn around for him.
At the end of the day we have a squad of players that collectively have got us to the top of the league, some will contribute more than others but it is the team overall that matters.

 

[Charlieblade]

Being realistic, we have 3 decent centre forwards. One is firing and undroppable, one is coming back from injury, and the other one is new.
Anyone volunteer for Wilders job now?
Peck, Sousa and Chowdray playing well now. What do you do when Arblaster is back?
O’Hare is a proper grafter, but do you drop Brewster now?
Who starts Against Burnley? BBD or JRS?
Let Wilder figure it out.

 

[Cheeky Blade]

We are certainly not the only club in the world to have made errors in the signing of players , the example of the self proclaimed “ Greatest Club in the World “ Man Utd . being the perfect example of this I recent times . In our case , I know it’s early days but the signing of Tom Cannon , especially for such a considerable fee for a Championship club , is already looking like a mistake .

Based on his previous stats and conversations I had with a Stoke City fan who is a close friend of mine , I had serious concerns that this might not be a good idea and expressed those thoughts on here before we signed him . I strongly suspect that he will fall into the category of one of those of which some fans will say “ There’s a player in there somewhere “ and 3 years down the line we are still waiting for that player to emerge . I hope I’m wrong .

But looking at our recruitment on the basis of swings and roundabouts the fact remains that we have signed him , Harrison Burrows , Michael Cooper and Tyrese Campbell for a grand total of around £ 17 million which has to considered as remarkable value for money in anybody’s book .

The last two alone are worth at least more than double that imo and congratulations are due to those involved in making these acquisitions .

Has Brewster paid up yet?

 

[Colombia Blade]

Haven't seen enough of Cannon to make an opinion really. Campbell's form has kept him out of the starting 11 so when he does come on it's usually into a team that's defending a lead and not really that bothered about attacking. Not exactly the best circumstances to see what he's about

 

[MagnifiqueShorehamStreet]

I believe that the quality of our signings improved significantly when Des Taylor got involved as Scout for us.Hope he continues to play a role in our recruitment department.

 

[Yewsman]

CWs track record for signing players for free or small fees is brilliant. Just look at the 2016/17 team. Fleck, Duffy, JOC, Enda, Leon, Baldock, Lundsram and I include also getting the best out of players who were languishing at the Club like Sharp, Couts, Freeman and Bash. Add to that later recruiting Egan for only 4.5 mill, Norwood for 2 mill and surely our best ever freebie, the great Didsy. This seasons recruitment of Burrows, Cooper, and Campbell, Ohare follow that pattern. His halo got tarnished really when we got to the EPL in 2019/20. For the first time he had EPL money to spend and bought McB, then Berge, then Brewster all for (in my view) wholly inflated fees. His attempts to buy “bargains” (which actually weren’t that cheap) Callum Robinson, Freeman, Mousset didn’t work out.

Where does Cannon fit in that historic context? I suggest it’s too early to tell. Let’s hope he comes good.

 

[Rodley]

CWs track record for signing players for free or small fees is brilliant. Just look at the 2016/17 team. Fleck, Duffy, JOC, Enda, Leon, Baldock, Lundsram and I include also getting the best out of players who were languishing at the Club like Sharp, Couts, Freeman and Bash. Add to that later recruiting Egan for only 4.5 mill, Norwood for 2 mill and surely our best ever freebie, the great Didsy. This seasons recruitment of Burrows, Cooper, and Campbell, Ohare follow that pattern. His halo got tarnished really when we got to the EPL in 2019/20. For the first time he had EPL money to spend and bought McB, then Berge, then Brewster all for (in my view) wholly inflated fees. His attempts to buy “bargains” (which actually weren’t that cheap) Callum Robinson, Freeman, Mousset didn’t work out.

Where does Cannon fit in that historic context? I suggest it’s too early to tell. Let’s hope he comes good.

Wilder’s difficulties in getting value for money when spending bigger fees in the Prem were the fact we couldn’t compete on wages. Players like Matty Cash, Antonee Robinson and Ollie Watkins were first choice but others could offer substantially bigger wages. So those players were non-starters and we went for 3rd or 4th choices; as such those we could sign were always going to be big gambles.

If we’re paying better wages, and if we’re promoted I believe we will, we’ll compete for better players with potentially lower transfer fees. At PL level we’ve fished under the Prince and McCabe in a very shallow pool.

 

[diode_blade]

We've seen this before with players many times.
Some take time to settle in during the season when they are signed.
The following season though they shine as either gifted players or down right hard working grafters perhaps not talented but they put their bodies on the line for the club.
So let's just see what happens.
Of course the opposite, we can buy a talented player who shines straight away, but the following season becomes absolute dogshite.

There might be a load of freebies from S6 in a couple of weeks.....urrrrrg wash mi mouth out and am shoving a red hot poker up mi arse....
My apologies

 

[loyalblade95]

The only thing that would concern me about Cannon would be if he was playing and not having/creating any chances, which admittedly has happened a few times this season, Hull, Pigs and Boro.

In most of his games this season he does have chances, both his own and one's he creates for other players.

Most games, he does get chances even if he doesn't take them, which is a step in the right direction and will lead to goals, think Brewster this season pre Wednesday, or Mcburnie at the start of 22/23 before he finally scored against Luton.

Derby, he sets up the goal, put it on a plate for BBD against QPR which should have been a goal, had a few chances in other games that he should have done better with.

Positioning wise he could do better when trying to get through on goal, watch Campbells movement and positioning for chances/goals and compare him to Cannon.

 

[Yewsman]

Wilder’s difficulties in getting value for money when spending bigger fees in the Prem were the fact we couldn’t compete on wages. Players like Matty Cash, Antonee Robinson and Ollie Watkins were first choice but others could offer substantially bigger wages. So those players were non-starters and we went for 3rd or 4th choices; as such those we could sign were always going to be big gambles.

If we’re paying better wages, and if we’re promoted I believe we will, we’ll compete for better players with potentially lower transfer fees. At PL level we’ve fished under the Prince and McCabe in a very shallow pool.

Yes accept wages were a problem but I’m sure one of the criticisms of CW when he seemed to go walkabout in EPL season 2 before being replaced by Hecky as caretaker was that when he bought McB as CF there was not a list of choices for CF but he insisted it must be McB at any price hence we overpaid. Same with Brewster.