Lane Ender
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2014
- Messages
- 6,202
- Reaction score
- 5,693
Me too
“The pyramid is broken”
- Thread starter North Shields Blade
- Start date
All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?
- Banned
- #32
So what makes you think Leeds and Norwich haven't been in the third tier during the life of the PL? Sorry Swiss poor research. Try again! e.g. Leeds 2007/8 - 2009/10. It is only Boro that haven't been in the third tier during the PL era.
Last edited:
Sheffsteel
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2015
- Messages
- 13,436
- Reaction score
- 27,792
Regards the 1st point I think they have to stop a loanee playing against its parent club because the potential hassle is massive and it’s open to cheating.
Imagine if Man Ciry were neck and neck challenging with Liverpool last season and James McAtee scored the last minute winner for us against Man City.
His goal had cost his paymasters millions …..he’d receive abuse from Man City fans and would need to leave ruining his career.
Agree with you 2nd point. I said last season that there were 2 changes which were having a much bigger effect then people realised.
I believe these changes were voted in by PL clubs to widen the gap between the PL and Championship making it more of a closed shop.
Change 1
Initially choosing 3 subs from a bench of 5 subs was increased to choosing 5 substitutes from a bench of 7.
This means for promoted clubs paying out millions to create a top quality starting 11 was no longer good enough. To survive in the PL you need a squad of 20 top PL quality players. Clubs with money can stack their benches with fantastic players who come on late in a game fully fresh..
Change 2
The adding in time rule, so most games are now 100 minutes long instead of 92 minutes long.
Inferior teams have always tried to break up play and used time wasting techniques.
The main media says this spoils the game however again, it hands over a massive advantage to the richer higher quality clubs.
Sheffsteel
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2015
- Messages
- 13,436
- Reaction score
- 27,792
Agree….football used to be the “working man’s sport”.
Now it’s become everyone’s sport….middle classes, the very wealthy, women/girls, gay people, disabled people, ethnic minorities etc
If the average working man can’t afford to pay….you sense clubs aren’t too bothered because they can still fill their grounds.
Last edited:
Deadbat
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2009
- Messages
- 6,264
- Reaction score
- 35,194
It was quite sad to see the end of MOTD as they said its looking bleak for the bottom 3 and they look like going the same way as the 3 promoted teams from last season.
This was a good opportunity for Lineker (he supports one of them after all) to discuss what a bad look this is for the pyramid and maybe talk about how it has to be or can, be changed. They just moved on. Suppose they won't go against the grain of criticising the PL and won't bite the hand that feeds up.
It is nauseating to hear Neville, Carragher and the rest salivating over the league snd how great it is. Lots mock how badly the promoted teams do but rarely does anyone stop and question why or how it could change? Maybe it can't. The money has gone too far.
It will keep happening with 2/3 going down and going replaced by 2/3 going up but I don't think anyone in the establishment/too clubs really give a damn.
This was a good opportunity for Lineker (he supports one of them after all) to discuss what a bad look this is for the pyramid and maybe talk about how it has to be or can, be changed. They just moved on. Suppose they won't go against the grain of criticising the PL and won't bite the hand that feeds up.
It is nauseating to hear Neville, Carragher and the rest salivating over the league snd how great it is. Lots mock how badly the promoted teams do but rarely does anyone stop and question why or how it could change? Maybe it can't. The money has gone too far.
It will keep happening with 2/3 going down and going replaced by 2/3 going up but I don't think anyone in the establishment/too clubs really give a damn.
Balham
S24SU Seer
Agreed. If you get promoted it obviously means you’ve had a good season and won plenty of football games.
Then you’re in the promised land and it gets to be a chore going to the matches knowing you’ll lose even if the opponents are littered with world class players to see.
I wouldn’t swap the chance of going up though myself or what’s the point?
SwissBlade
Well-Known Member
Thanks for correcting, as i said it was a quick check, so there is a possibility i missed some. Table updated
| Club | Top Tier | 3rd Tier |
| Leeds United | 2023 | 2008 |
| SUFC | 2024 | 2017 |
| Burnley | 2024 | 1999 |
| Sunderland | 2017 | 2022 |
| WBA | 2021 | 1993 |
| Blackburn Rovers | 2012 | 2018 |
| Coventry City | 2001 | 2020 |
| Bristol City | N/A | 2015 |
| Norwich City | 2022 | 2010 |
| Millwall | N/A | 2017 |
| Watford | 2022 | 1998 |
| Pigs | 2000 | 2023 |
| Middlesborough | 2017 | N/A |
| QPR | 2015 | 2004 |
| Preston North End | N/A | 2015 |
| Swansea City | 2018 | 2001 |
| Portsmouth | 2010 | 2024 |
| Oxford United | N/A | 2024 |
| Stoke City | 2018 | 2002 |
| Hull City | 2017 | 2021 |
| Cardiff City | 2019 | 2003 |
| Plymouth Argyle | N/A | 2023 |
| Derby County | 2008 | 2024 |
| Luton Town | 2024 | 2019 |
robbiez666
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2009
- Messages
- 17,477
- Reaction score
- 23,605
The problem with being a yo-yo team is that it requires regular yearly investment and therefore rich and willing owners.
Even so, it's easy to get stuck in like WBA/Watford/Boro, either unsuccessful in the play-offs or narrowly missing out. You really need generous owners to keep going for it.
When you don't have willing and able owners, you end up with a team of crap old players who are on too much money to get rid of. You
end up doing a Huddersfield, Cardiff, Birmingham, Stoke etc and either struggling against relegation or going down to league 1.
It's shit. The only way to have a chance of staying up is to throw more money than you have at it when you're up. Works sometimes (Forest, Bournemouth, Brentford) but wrecks the clubs it doesn't work for.
It's rubbish really. It was much better when only a few teams had the resources to invest heavily every year. Much more of a chance for everyone else.
Even so, it's easy to get stuck in like WBA/Watford/Boro, either unsuccessful in the play-offs or narrowly missing out. You really need generous owners to keep going for it.
When you don't have willing and able owners, you end up with a team of crap old players who are on too much money to get rid of. You
end up doing a Huddersfield, Cardiff, Birmingham, Stoke etc and either struggling against relegation or going down to league 1.
It's shit. The only way to have a chance of staying up is to throw more money than you have at it when you're up. Works sometimes (Forest, Bournemouth, Brentford) but wrecks the clubs it doesn't work for.
It's rubbish really. It was much better when only a few teams had the resources to invest heavily every year. Much more of a chance for everyone else.
Grizzly blade
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 18, 2016
- Messages
- 4,620
- Reaction score
- 9,108
The solution is simple in theory if you get the recruitment right at first team level and the scouting and investment in youth right.
We could go up and down for several years, and as long as we strive to maintain a gradual improvement in both aspects mentioned eventually you end up with a model that allows the support of the club to be maintained in the top flight with the revenues you generate.
Players don’t just start at the top, they have to start somewhere and progress, so it’s not an unreasonable philosophy to be the club getting those players just as they reach their peak, so at a point they are affordable to us whether in the prem or cycling down to the championship.
Then move them on to the clubs with more money and replace with the next player.
If it’s done right, and you’re only replacing and refreshing a team with 2 maybe 3 players a season it’s possible.
It’s the only way. And what everyone is aiming for. So it’s therefore unlikely.
We could go up and down for several years, and as long as we strive to maintain a gradual improvement in both aspects mentioned eventually you end up with a model that allows the support of the club to be maintained in the top flight with the revenues you generate.
Players don’t just start at the top, they have to start somewhere and progress, so it’s not an unreasonable philosophy to be the club getting those players just as they reach their peak, so at a point they are affordable to us whether in the prem or cycling down to the championship.
Then move them on to the clubs with more money and replace with the next player.
If it’s done right, and you’re only replacing and refreshing a team with 2 maybe 3 players a season it’s possible.
It’s the only way. And what everyone is aiming for. So it’s therefore unlikely.
Fjortoft's Aeroplane
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2015
- Messages
- 1,721
- Reaction score
- 2,408
For me the biggest issue is that when we're in the Prem we haven't signed genuine prem quality players. So when we get relegated and go back up again... we're still at square one.
The yo yo teams that eventually go on to establish themselves will make QUALITY purchases upon promotion. They won't spaff it on the Brewsters and McBurnies of this world.
Then if they get relegated they go down stronger than before. Upon every (recent) relegation so far we've looked weaker than the team that got promoted and that's our biggest failure.
The yo yo teams that eventually go on to establish themselves will make QUALITY purchases upon promotion. They won't spaff it on the Brewsters and McBurnies of this world.
Then if they get relegated they go down stronger than before. Upon every (recent) relegation so far we've looked weaker than the team that got promoted and that's our biggest failure.
Last edited:
SouthEssexBlade
...for wit and sage wisdom
Sport or entertainment?
Frank the tank
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2020
- Messages
- 9,242
- Reaction score
- 19,698
People always talk about Brentford, Brighton and Bournemouth whilst neglecting to mention there billionaire owners pumping hundreds of millions into their infrastructure and playing staff
Have you ever considered a director of football role ?
Someone like spurs would pay big money for someone with your Insight into the high profile world of football transfers
That's brilliant, so all you have to do to stay up is sign really good players and not shit ones
Have you ever considered a director of football role ?
Someone like spurs would pay big money for someone with your Insight into the high profile world of football transfers
Fjortoft's Aeroplane
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2015
- Messages
- 1,721
- Reaction score
- 2,408
Can you name me any promoted teams that have spent money worse than sheff utd have? My point is we can't just blame it all on "football is broken" we have to accept some blame lies in our recruitment strategy of quantity over quality.
I don't think anybody outside the EFL gives a dam about the growing gap. The prem clubs now see it as kind of comfort blanket that it is almost certain the 3 promoted clubs will go back down and it gives them some stability to their own business models. You cannot build a premier league ready club in the championship even with good player recruitment and youth development. The only way is to take a huge gamble when you get there like Forest. The problem with that if it doesn't pay off which it nearly didn't for two seasons you potentially risk the clubs existence or at least set it back years. The so called experts om Sky, MOTD etc just don't seem to get that when criticising these clubs.
In a way I am really relaxed about this season. I am enjoying competing for automatic promotion but there is not that feeling any trepidation should we miss out as I know we are miles away from being able to compete next season should we go up.
In a way I am really relaxed about this season. I am enjoying competing for automatic promotion but there is not that feeling any trepidation should we miss out as I know we are miles away from being able to compete next season should we go up.
Frank the tank
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2020
- Messages
- 9,242
- Reaction score
- 19,698
Blademan18891889
Active Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2018
- Messages
- 1,526
- Reaction score
- 1,992
Exactly what I said. It's the most attended league In the world, every stadium is sold out every week basically other than when we are in the league.
bornablade
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2014
- Messages
- 4,692
- Reaction score
- 9,672
If we are to become an 'established Premier league club' (to quote the new owners) then there needs to be a paradigm shift.
We cannot rely on having a close season of buying the best players in the Championship with a view that those players will easily fit into the Premier league.
Recruitment, youth development, tactics, choice of management & coaching staff, control of injuries and style of play should all be under the microscope. Every single aspect of the club should be centred around 'An established Premier league club'.
This should be taking place now.
If promotion is not achieved this season then the exercise should be shelved until promotion is achieved.
I hope the new owners are pro-active for a longer term successful future.
I hope they are not getting caught up in the tired argument - let's do we what we did in 2019/20 because it led us to finishing 9th in the top flight.
We cannot rely on having a close season of buying the best players in the Championship with a view that those players will easily fit into the Premier league.
Recruitment, youth development, tactics, choice of management & coaching staff, control of injuries and style of play should all be under the microscope. Every single aspect of the club should be centred around 'An established Premier league club'.
This should be taking place now.
If promotion is not achieved this season then the exercise should be shelved until promotion is achieved.
I hope the new owners are pro-active for a longer term successful future.
I hope they are not getting caught up in the tired argument - let's do we what we did in 2019/20 because it led us to finishing 9th in the top flight.
- Banned
- #49
A tease mate tbh. Need the updated analysis too, you dont get off that easily !
Greasy Chap Butty
Not even a fish
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2018
- Messages
- 23,274
- Reaction score
- 32,817
Frank the tank
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2020
- Messages
- 9,242
- Reaction score
- 19,698
Again a very simplistic view
I doubt very much any one at United thinks that buying championship players guarantees they will easily fit into the Premier league as that's as daft as saying foreign players will easily fir into the Premier league
You have a budget, you have areas you need to strengthen, your budget includes wages and fees
You identify players that you can encourage to sign for you in the parameters of that budget and you go from there
Forest for example didn't just sign players like Hudson odoi because they were available they pay them wages we could never afford
They offered us wood and shelvey who were both earning in excess of a hundred grand a week and couldn't get in their squad
We have taken punts on championship players because it's all we could afford
Hopefully that will change next premier league season and higher wages will be affordable
Sheffsteel
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2015
- Messages
- 13,436
- Reaction score
- 27,792
Agree….people talk about protecting the pyramid when the truth is….the PL, EFL and FA are totally selfish protecting their self interest.
The vast bulk of football fans are totally selfish, totally biased towards their own club. Even the EFL….theres massive inequality…the Championship clubs receive the vast bulk of the TV money What about them accepting less and giving more money to the league 1 and league 2 clubs?
However what you find is that if EFL clubs were given more money, transfer prices and player salaries would increase…so there wouldn’t be much real change.
Agree the vast bulk of the population and fans around the world have little interest outside the PL.
If and when we become established in the PL our fans would be exactly the same….not caring one iota about the Champioship.
My view is that the PL clubs know they are on a sure thing towards wealth and fame….so they wish to remain there.
Ideally they’d prefer a closed league with no promotion or relegation but know it wouldn’t go through.
So they are sneakingly crating a closed shop via the back door by increasing subs benches to 7 subs…meaning squads become massively important.
The idea is if a big club like Everton were relegated it’s no longer the disaster it would have been in the past
Because all Everton need to do is hang on to their players and they are 90% certain to be promoted back to the PL at their 1st attempt.
Southampton are currently bottom on the PL but I don’t think there’s any panic within that club.
They are already preparing for a promotion push next season and feel very confidence they’ll achieve it.
There are 2 options regards the way forward to establish a club in the PL.
1: You could take a massive risk doing a Nottingham Forest spending 150 million on players with huge salaries or
2: Accept being a yo-yo team for 3 or 4 years and buy young (best of the EFL players with high potential.
We might be promoted then relegated then promoted again…however through those years you’d expect Peck, Arbaster, Burrows, Sereki to become PL standard players, if we keep those players when they reach their prime we won’t need to spend too much to acquire a PL standard team.
scouseblade
Active Member
They've spoken about it on the podcast recently and no doubt will do so again. The only thing is they use the Forest example which is wrong as they cheated.
Unless they make the championship league winners immune from relegation for the first season it's more often than not going to be the same 3 up that come down, it used to happen very rarely but that will happen more and more often now,
Nick Jansky
Well-Known Member
You haven’t been in the PL for over 20 years, so pipe down.
AWetFlannel
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2016
- Messages
- 3,450
- Reaction score
- 5,255
It's popularity doesn't necessarily mean those that are going/watching think it's working.
As will be the case for many others, I couldn't care less if people abroad enjoy it, but I'm sure they'd enjoy it more if it were more competitive.
Fjortoft's Aeroplane
Active Member
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2015
- Messages
- 1,721
- Reaction score
- 2,408
Luton? What fucking money did Luton spend? You're going to have to name players that are worse value for money than Brewster. You can't.
Frank the tank
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2020
- Messages
- 9,242
- Reaction score
- 19,698
They had the smae money as us and are now 45 points below us
Blademan18891889
Active Member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2018
- Messages
- 1,526
- Reaction score
- 1,992
diode_blade
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2012
- Messages
- 4,465
- Reaction score
- 5,452
Naaaa, just vinyl on a balcony.
Championship top trio enjoy parachute payments but risk crash landings | Jonathan Wilson
Leeds, Sheffield United and Burnley are all vying for Premier League returns but fans will ask if it’s really worth itwww.theguardian.com
Are we a mezzanine side?
As another poster said, the thrill of going for promotion is as good as it gets, esp to the PL.
Shit happens we know that.
In my humble opinion, it is virtually impossible for teams promoted to the PL to survive 1 season let alone two.
Forest have done really well so far, but next season I think they will struggle.
All I hope is if the Blades go up, we just give a reight ferking go.
Similar threads
All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?