CONFIRMED Luke Thomas - Season Long Loan

[bakeblade]

Not in that first half against Luton he didn’t

That was because Wilder was tactically done over by Rob Edwards.

 

[bakeblade]

What? He is head of recruitment/head scout, that is literally his job. And you didn’t read my post properly as I clearly said it was likely a UW scout that saw him first which will have the been passed on to Paul Mitchell for him to do his job, what he is actually paid for.

Mitchell should have been replaced years ago.

 

[bakeblade]

I saw something the other day that Man United were looking to Paul Mitchell to be involved in their player recruitment... Am I missing something or are there 2 of them as he doesn't seem to have set the world alight with our signings?!

Man U looking at our Paul Mitchell, hilarious...

 

[HarryHaslam]

Mitchell himself works under a remit from the ownership. During Wilder's first spell, manager and head of recruitment clearly worked very closely together to identify players and I strongly suspect that in some instances Wilder just said "I want this player" and Mitchell played relatively little role (Ramsdale and Brewster possibly being examples). After Wilder left the managers (Slav and Hecky) have had less clout and the ownership has felt freer to implement their preferred recruitment model--young players from outside the UK with development and resale potential. Mitchell will have been told to work within that framework and may even be having players recommended (possibly strongly recommended) by those associated with the ownership and United World. I reckon that's what happened last summer.

I did say wilder at the beginning would have been picking his own players as he knew the level, as you move up levels more the head scout comes into play. And I’ve also said UW scouts will have scouted players and past the info onto the head scout Paul Mitchell to get to work on any player. It’s then his job to put in the hours and then put a player forward as a possible signing or to throw the folder in the bin. The buck stops with him it’s that simple.

Regardless of what his instruction are, and yes young players with sell on value is the way forward it still does not excuse picking any poor player. Obviously mistakes are going to be made but if you consistently make mistakes then it’s not the remit you are given it’s your eye for a player are miles off what’s need simple as that.

I have mutual friends with Paul and have had the odd word with him, comes across as a top bloke but being a top bloke doesn’t make you qualified to scout at the top level unfortunately and he is way out of his depth. For instance Traore, it will have been a European scout who first saw him and past on all relevant info to PM, he will have flown to watch him numerous times, you are not spending 4 million on the strength of videos. If PM watched him and thought he was worth 4 million he wants sacking on the spot. I watched him for Nantes the other day and I wouldn’t take him on a free for the u23 side.

 

[mattbianco1]

That was because Wilder was tactically done over by Rob Edwards.

How so?

We went behind. We changed it up and went in front. They didn't have a single shot on target after we went 2-1 up.
Explain how that is on Wilder?

They scored 3 freak goals.

The Expected goals column read 2.78 Blades and 0.58 Luton.
Lutons xG in the 2nd half was 0.13 and yet they scored 2.

Luton didn't do anywhere near enough to win that game. Sometimes your luck is in

 

[Espania blade]

Man U looking at our Paul Mitchell, hilarious...

it's a different Paul Mitchel

 

[dc_blade]

I did say wilder at the beginning would have been picking his own players as he knew the level, as you move up levels more the head scout comes into play. And I’ve also said UW scouts will have scouted players and past the info onto the head scout Paul Mitchell to get to work on any player. It’s then his job to put in the hours and then put a player forward as a possible signing or to throw the folder in the bin. The buck stops with him it’s that simple.

Regardless of what his instruction are, and yes young players with sell on value is the way forward it still does not excuse picking any poor player. Obviously mistakes are going to be made but if you consistently make mistakes then it’s not the remit you are given it’s your eye for a player are miles off what’s need simple as that.

I have mutual friends with Paul and have had the odd word with him, comes across as a top bloke but being a top bloke doesn’t make you qualified to scout at the top level unfortunately and he is way out of his depth. For instance Traore, it will have been a European scout who first saw him and past on all relevant info to PM, he will have flown to watch him numerous times, you are not spending 4 million on the strength of videos. If PM watched him and thought he was worth 4 million he wants sacking on the spot. I watched him for Nantes the other day and I wouldn’t take him on a free for the u23 side.

I'm not defending Mitchell necessarily, just trying to add some context. I think overall he's done a very good job for us, which is why we're in the Premier League now and were in League One when he joined us. Even in the last couple of seasons he's got some things right--Gibbs White comes to mind. I'd also add that I'm not quite ready to write off some of the young players we signed this summer because I just haven't seen enough of them.

In the grand scheme of things I agree with the basic thrust of what you're saying--Mitchell is an old school, lower league scout and we probably need something different now. The whole backroom operation needs a radical overhaul and modernization.

 

[bakeblade]

How so?

We went behind. We changed it up and went in front. They didn't have a single shot on target after we went 2-1 up.
Explain how that is on Wilder?

They scored 3 freak goals.

The Expected goals column read 2.78 Blades and 0.58 Luton.
Lutons xG in the 2nd half was 0.13 and yet they scored 2.

Luton didn't do anywhere near enough to win that game. Sometimes your luck is in

Really? They murdered up down our left hand side by overloading with Townsend and Doughty. Wilder changed it at half time by bringing on Lowe therefore admitting he got it wrong initially. If happens but he really should have reacted much earlier.

 

[bakeblade]

it's a different Paul Mitchel

Exactly

 

[Balham]

That was because Wilder was tactically done over by Rob Edwards.

Wilder was tactically done over by himself against Luton.

We started with a very clear 4-4-2; a back four of Baldock - Ahmedhodzic - Robinson - Trusty; a midfield of McAtee - Souza - Brooks - Hamer and Archer and McBurnie up front. Luton's gameplan was very clear: sit deep, aim high balls at Adebayo, who is exceptional in the air, and pick up the scraps. We let Ahmedhodzic get isolated against Adebayo too often as Baldock didn't seem match fit while on the other side Trusty didn't know whether to come or go. Doughty capitalised on that uncertainty, along with Hamer's poor positioning, to score the opener but there was a huge dose of good fortune about that.

This is how the field was set when Lokonga got the assist for Doughty's goal.

From a defensive positioning point of view, that's awful. Our back four is too narrow, Robinson has dropped off and I've no idea why Trusty is where he is. Hamer realises the danger but it's too late for him to get out to close Doughty down. Once he does get close Hamer puts in a half-hearted attempt to win the ball but is easily beaten... then there's the catastrophic mistake from Foderingham to top it off.

That put the game exactly where Luton wanted it and exactly where we didn't: they could retreat deeper and deeper and we had to make the running. I'm sure that had Bogle been available and Lowe been fit we'd have seen those two start in place of the half-fit Baldock and out-of-position Trusty and then maybe it would have been a different game.

I suppose you make your own luck but let's not pretend that Luton gave us a tactical masterclass. They were fortunate that their one shot on target went in off the goalkeeper's legs then we scored two ludicrous own goals.

 

[JohnDenver]

Different Paul Mitchell

 

[CPB]

How so?

We went behind. We changed it up and went in front. They didn't have a single shot on target after we went 2-1 up.
Explain how that is on Wilder?

They scored 3 freak goals.

The Expected goals column read 2.78 Blades and 0.58 Luton.
Lutons xG in the 2nd half was 0.13 and yet they scored 2.

Luton didn't do anywhere near enough to win that game. Sometimes your luck is in

Baffles me when I see people say Luton deserved that win. Luckiest win I've seen for years.
2nd half we were much the better and as you say in particular 2 freak goals.
But wilder was right too we dropped too deep to allow them more into our box, and that was our downfall there.

 

[Rudders]

Baffles me when I see people say Luton deserved that win. Luckiest win I've seen for years.
2nd half we were much the better and as you say in particular 2 freak goals.
But wilder was right too we dropped too deep to allow them more into our box, and that was our downfall there.

Trusty or Hamer should have got much tighter and snapped Doughty in the first couple of minutes. Acres of space for him until half time. Robbo and Anel really lost every personal battle going in the game and were panicky throughout despite what the xg said.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Doesn’t matter when he was signed, whoever decided he was good enough after watching him play have their eyes painted on. Useless.

Recruitment team made a mistake with Larouchi and were given the task of finding a replacement and they then doubled down on their balls up and found someone worse.

The recruitment team who were given the equivalent of five small loaves of bread and two small fish and asked to feed five thousand.

It's so easy to sit here and say "they made a mistake", "they ballsed up" without any consideration of the context.

Everyone wanted another left back in. He came in and started many games for us because he was the best, fit option. If you're confident there was better available for our budget that late in the window, name names.

 

[Balham]

Trusty or Hamer should have got much tighter and snapped Doughty in the first couple of minutes. Acres of space for him until half time.

Disagree. They just needed to be tighter to him. He's bang average. The issue was that neither was playing a role they're used to and the communication just wasn't there.

Robbo and Anel really lost every personal battle going in the game and were panicky throughout despite what the xg said.

Agree but Adebayo will win aerial battles against pretty much every centre half in the division. Neither Ahmedhodzic nor Robinson defended cleverly: either let him win the first ball and pick up the second or nudge him as he jumps to get him to mistime it. Robinson's booking was embarrassing, his frustration got the better of him but he's a professional footballer and should know better.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Different Paul Mitchell

The shampoo bloke?

 

[ThatJa]

That was because Wilder was tactically done over by Rob Edwards.

For the 3rd time

Against the 3rd different club

 

[Frank the tank]

For the 3rd time

Against the 3rd different club

What we're the two other times ?
To be fair I thought wilder got the better of Edwards tactically at half time but was let down by his defenders dropping too deep and not being professional enough to see out a game against a team that never really threatened for the entire game

 

[HarryHaslam]

The recruitment team who were given the equivalent of five small loaves of bread and two small fish and asked to feed five thousand.

It's so easy to sit here and say "they made a mistake", "they ballsed up" without any consideration of the context.

Everyone wanted another left back in. He came in and started many games for us because he was the best, fit option. If you're confident there was better available for our budget that late in the window, name names.

They did balls up for goodness sake, Larouchi, Thomas both not good enough for the Premier League. Now think about this, do you think these two were the only two left backs available in Europe and England? Of course they were not, but out of our list of left backs we have looked into which would be lengthy these two were deemed as the best option by the recruitment team. Eyes painted on.

And that’s not even touching on other signings. I think it is clear PM has friends on here which is understandable being a Handsworth lad but anyone think he is good enough are off their nut. All his football experience is at Worksop level and then was the scout at Chesterfield. He left Chesterfield and was unemployed before his big pal Chris Wilder said I’ll give you a job. He won the lotto that day but time should now be called on this and get someone else in because we can never progress with this recruitment team and people need to realise this.

 

[ThatJa]

What we're the two other times ?
To be fair I thought wilder got the better of Edwards tactically at half time but was let down by his defenders dropping too deep and not being professional enough to see out a game against a team that never really threatened for the entire game

Wilder was manager of Middlesbrough and then Watford. Lost both, then lost v Luton this season with us.

 

[AWetFlannel]

They did balls up for goodness sake, Larouchi, Thomas both not good enough for the Premier League. Now think about this, do you think these two were the only two left backs available in Europe and England? Of course they were not, but out of our list of left backs we have looked into which would be lengthy these two were deemed as the best option by the recruitment team. Eyes painted on.

And that’s not even touching on other signings. I think it is clear PM has friends on here which is understandable being a Handsworth lad but anyone think he is good enough are off their nut. All his football experience is at Worksop level and then was the scout at Chesterfield. He left Chesterfield and was unemployed before his big pal Chris Wilder said I’ll give you a job. He won the lotto that day but time should now be called on this and get someone else in because we can never progress with this recruitment team and people need to realise this.

No, there are thousands of other left backs available in Europe.

What I'm not sure about is whether there was one available that is good enough to play in the PL, whose wage demands didn't reflect their ability. I'm sure our recruitment team identified that Lewis Hall, Maatsen, Reguilon and Grimaldo are superior players, we just can't afford any of em.

Too be clear, I don't think Hecky was a Premier League manager, making him perfect for our sub PL squad and sub PL ownership.

 

[AWetFlannel]

How so?

We went behind. We changed it up and went in front. They didn't have a single shot on target after we went 2-1 up.
Explain how that is on Wilder?

They scored 3 freak goals.

The Expected goals column read 2.78 Blades and 0.58 Luton.
Lutons xG in the 2nd half was 0.13 and yet they scored 2.

Luton didn't do anywhere near enough to win that game. Sometimes your luck is in

Agree Luton got lucky, but first half it was clear we'd got it wrong tactically. Wilder changed it at half time to address it.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

View attachment 177358

Oi who you callin Paul.

 

[HarryHaslam]

No, there are thousands of other left backs available in Europe.

What I'm not sure about is whether there was one available that is good enough to play in the PL, whose wage demands didn't reflect their ability. I'm sure our recruitment team identified that Lewis Hall, Maatsen, Reguilon and Grimaldo are superior players, we just can't afford any of em.

Too be clear, I don't think Hecky was a Premier League manager, making him perfect for our sub PL squad and sub PL ownership.

Agreed the vast majority of those available would not be good enough for the PL, these two were also not good enough and should have been discounted. Finding the ones that were available and good enough? Well that’s down to the head of recruitment, all the scouting work him and his team do and his vast contact list. We got someone from L2 in France and someone off the bench in the Championship. That alone tells you our head of recruitment does not have the eye or the contact list for a top flight football club. I’m sorry and I know I sound harsh but I want us to progress as a club and we need talent not only on the field but off it also with staff.

 

[Houston_Blade]

If after this window we still have Ben Osborn as our best option at LWB then we’ve screwed up big time.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Agreed the vast majority of those available would not be good enough for the PL, these two were also not good enough and should have been discounted. Finding the ones that were available and good enough? Well that’s down to the head of recruitment, all the scouting work him and his team do and his vast contact list. We got someone from L2 in France and someone off the bench in the Championship. That alone tells you our head of recruitment does not have the eye or the contact list for a top flight football club. I’m sorry and I know I sound harsh but I want us to progress as a club and we need talent not only on the field but off it also with staff.

You may be right, I don't know either way.

To me, it seems like you're assuming that there were left backs available and good enough when it's not obviously the case.

Luton have been endlessly praised for their fantastic recruitment for years, which has allowed them to punch above their weight. They signed Ryan Giles for £5 million to play left back after having a promising season at Boro last season. He's barely had a game for them either. Is that because their brilliant recruitment team are shit, or because when you're trying to recruit for the PL with a tiny budget it's nearly impossible.

We have to spot players that every other PL club either haven't spotted (unlikely with their huge scouting networks) or don't want, leaving a tiny or non existent group of players good enough for us but not too good that they'd want.

 

[HarryHaslam]

You may be right, I don't know either way.

To me, it seems like you're assuming that there were left backs available and good enough when it's not obviously the case.

Luton have been endlessly praised for their fantastic recruitment for years, which has allowed them to punch above their weight. They signed Ryan Giles for £5 million to play left back after having a promising season at Boro last season. He's barely had a game for them either. Is that because their brilliant recruitment team are shit, or because when you're trying to recruit for the PL with a tiny budget it's nearly impossible.

We have to spot players that every other PL club either haven't spotted (unlikely with their huge scouting networks) or don't want, leaving a tiny or non existent group of players good enough for us but not too good that they'd want.

I am assuming it tbf. I just think there will have been better options out there because of how poor Thomas was and if I was paid a ton of money to watch players all day and network with scouts, agents, clubs I’d have had better option than Thomas. Just my opinion.

As for Ryan Giles, couldn’t tell you if he’s any good tbh but I’d say he’s maybe a good back up but can’t currently get past Amari Bell for a starting spot as he’s looked good when I’ve watched them.

All about opinions mate and ours differ slightly, nowt wrong with that. I just want the club to progress and eventually be a stable PL club. It’s not going to happen with a lower league recruitment team in my opinion.

 

[Snowflake]

Really? They murdered up down our left hand side by overloading with Townsend and Doughty. Wilder changed it at half time by bringing on Lowe therefore admitting he got it wrong initially. If happens but he really should have reacted much earlier.

I don’t think it was Wilder’s fault. Trusty just kept wandering away from where he should have been. I was in the SS with my son in law who is a coach and he couldn’t understand how a professional footballer was so out of position most of the time.

 

[FriethBlade]

You may be right, I don't know either way.

To me, it seems like you're assuming that there were left backs available and good enough when it's not obviously the case.

Luton have been endlessly praised for their fantastic recruitment for years, which has allowed them to punch above their weight. They signed Ryan Giles for £5 million to play left back after having a promising season at Boro last season. He's barely had a game for them either. Is that because their brilliant recruitment team are shit, or because when you're trying to recruit for the PL with a tiny budget it's nearly impossible.

We have to spot players that every other PL club either haven't spotted (unlikely with their huge scouting networks) or don't want, leaving a tiny or non existent group of players good enough for us but not too good that they'd want.

I guess what we did know is that Leicester thought he wasn't good enough for the Championship. That aligned with the fact he has the stature and physique of a 14 year old raised enough flags with me never mind someone who's job it is to identify players

 

[AWetFlannel]

I guess what we did know is that Leicester thought he wasn't good enough for the Championship. That aligned with the fact he has the stature and physique of a 14 year old raised enough flags with me never mind someone who's job it is to identify players

We don't know that, we just know they have better players in that position or that their manager didn't fancy him playing their unique style.

James Justin who they spent £8mill on if I remember correctly was his competition, and a young Man City loanee. Both playing in a back 4. Leicester gave Thomas loads of appearances in the PL before that, so it's certainly not the case they don't think he's good enough for the Championship.