Injuries

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We can talk recruitment and the Prince this and that… but

There is a systematic problem at the club with Fitness and preparation

If I could be arsed I’d look into the types of injuries and their cause in Heckys time.

Re injuries is a concern. Why do so many get similar or same injuries after a lay off? They’re not rushed back. So what is the issue?

Soft tissue injuries, non contact injuries tell a story that the preparation isn’t right, facilities or something like the methods are playing a part.

You can play yourself sharp, but you can’t play yourself fit if the base wasn’t right. Preseason has clearly been shambolic as we’re off the pace.

Recovery is key and we have time during the week to recover. Are they putting too much in that they’re not peaking on game day?

Cramp is something which shouldn’t be a worry until you’re really depleted. We’ve seen different players with cramp today to last week

And players that tire will also get other soft tissue injuries. Fatigue shouldn’t be underestimated as a contributor.

A premier league club that relies on fitness would be well advised to get a consultant in to do a review of our entire set up.
 
SwissBlade said:
We can talk recruitment and the Prince this and that… but

There is a systematic problem at the club with Fitness and preparation

If I could be arsed I’d look into the types of injuries and their cause in Heckys time.

Re injuries is a concern. Why do so many get similar or same injuries after a lay off? They’re not rushed back. So what is the issue?

Soft tissue injuries, non contact injuries tell a story that the preparation isn’t right, facilities or something like the methods are playing a part.

You can play yourself sharp, but you can’t play yourself fit if the base wasn’t right. Preseason has clearly been shambolic as we’re off the pace.

Recovery is key and we have time during the week to recover. Are they putting too much in that they’re not peaking on game day?

Cramp is something which shouldn’t be a worry until you’re really depleted. We’ve seen different players with cramp today to last week

And players that tire will also get other soft tissue injuries. Fatigue shouldn’t be underestimated as a contributor.

A premier league club that relies on fitness would be well advised to get a consultant in to do a review of our entire set up.
Click to expand...
9 Players missing through injury concerns is a worry 100%. People may say other clubs get these but it's been over two years now.
 
A Storm of Blades said:
The management team are getting away with murder not facing down serious questions about our injury record. The number of players dropping in the first 2 games is an embarrassment. Our squad is threadbare as it is, look at who we are having to bring on. Winding me up for well over a year now.
Click to expand...
We talk about athleticism but either don't sign athletes or have a clue how to keep them fit , which , as Ray Liotta would say , is very disappointing 😕
 
SwissBlade said:
We can talk recruitment and the Prince this and that… but

There is a systematic problem at the club with Fitness and preparation

If I could be arsed I’d look into the types of injuries and their cause in Heckys time.

Re injuries is a concern. Why do so many get similar or same injuries after a lay off? They’re not rushed back. So what is the issue?

Soft tissue injuries, non contact injuries tell a story that the preparation isn’t right, facilities or something like the methods are playing a part.

You can play yourself sharp, but you can’t play yourself fit if the base wasn’t right. Preseason has clearly been shambolic as we’re off the pace.

Recovery is key and we have time during the week to recover. Are they putting too much in that they’re not peaking on game day?

Cramp is something which shouldn’t be a worry until you’re really depleted. We’ve seen different players with cramp today to last week

And players that tire will also get other soft tissue injuries. Fatigue shouldn’t be underestimated as a contributor.

A premier league club that relies on fitness would be well advised to get a consultant in to do a review of our entire set up.
Click to expand...
You see how the rest of the club is run and you think the fitness coaching is somehow going to be different ?
 
Keen Blade said:
You see how the rest of the club is run and you think the fitness coaching is somehow going to be different ?
Click to expand...
in this case, yes as we’ve apparently got a whole plethora of experience from coaching, fitness to nutrition so in many ways this is an area that is ring fenced under Heckys control

Admittedly there will be interactions with the likes of facilities, but it’s not the only reason we’ll get so many injuries
 
SwissBlade said:
We can talk recruitment and the Prince this and that… but

There is a systematic problem at the club with Fitness and preparation

If I could be arsed I’d look into the types of injuries and their cause in Heckys time.

Re injuries is a concern. Why do so many get similar or same injuries after a lay off? They’re not rushed back. So what is the issue?

Soft tissue injuries, non contact injuries tell a story that the preparation isn’t right, facilities or something like the methods are playing a part.

You can play yourself sharp, but you can’t play yourself fit if the base wasn’t right. Preseason has clearly been shambolic as we’re off the pace.

Recovery is key and we have time during the week to recover. Are they putting too much in that they’re not peaking on game day?

Cramp is something which shouldn’t be a worry until you’re really depleted. We’ve seen different players with cramp today to last week

And players that tire will also get other soft tissue injuries. Fatigue shouldn’t be underestimated as a contributor.

A premier league club that relies on fitness would be well advised to get a consultant in to do a review of our entire set up.
Click to expand...
100% on the money. Root and branch analysis from an independent expect would cost a few grand at most. Get Kelly Starrett in to look at it. Give every player a percussion massage gun to use at home. Develop muscle, facia and joint capsule resilience through targeted mobility work etc etc
 
CaptainMorgans said:
Baldock and McBurnie start.
RND in his peak starts but he's been out a year now, who knows how he'll return.
The rest wouldn't.
Click to expand...
It depends how you answer the question, Captain.

Do all 9 start at once? I.e. are we down 9 definite starters? No.

But do they start instead of others who did?

McBurnie starts ahead of Osula and Traore.

But if McBurnie is not fit, Brewster starts ahead of those two. If Brewster is not fit, then so does Jebbo. In fact we'd probably go Jebbo and Brewster before Traore at this point.

Baldock starts. But if Baldock isn't fit, then Bogle starts ahead of Osborn at RWB.

So that is already 5 who would have started ahead of those that did.

If 100% fit, Norrington-Davies would be in the XI.

I would also envisage that Fleck, Slimane and Coulibaly would all occupy a place on the bench ahead of Brooks, though it's never clear how high Hecky rates Coulibaly. Whenever there is an opportunity for him to claim a spot, he's bloody injured.

I'd say you can make a case for all of them to be individually considered ahead of others who made the matchday squad, had they been fit.
 
Champagneblade said:
It depends how you answer the question, Captain.

Do all 9 start at once? I.e. are we down 9 definite starters? No.

But do they start instead of others who did?

McBurnie starts ahead of Osula and Traore.

But if McBurnie is not fit, Brewster starts ahead of those two. If Brewster is not fit, then so does Jebbo. In fact we'd probably go Jebbo and Brewster before Traore at this point.

Baldock starts. But if Baldock isn't fit, then Bogle starts ahead of Osborn at RWB.

So that is already 5 who would have started ahead of those that did.

If 100% fit, Norrington-Davies would be in the XI.

I would also envisage that Fleck, Slimane and Coulibaly would all occupy a place on the bench ahead of Brooks, though it's never clear how high Hecky rates Coulibaly. Whenever there is an opportunity for him to claim a spot, he's bloody injured.

I'd say you can make a case for all of them to be individually considered ahead of others who made the matchday squad, had they been fit.
Click to expand...
Agree with your logic here mate. The daylight between the calibre of player Forest could bring on and those we could, was blinding. We do need more in terms of recruitment, but we should be allocating resources to substantially improve players’ injury resistance. Over the last 2 years, the excuses have changed, but the injury list hasn’t.
 
It’s not the recruitment that will fuck us. It’s the laundry list of injuries that will do that. Not many premier league teams can handle nearly 10 players being out injured.
 
CaptainMorgans said:
Baldock and McBurnie start.
RND in his peak starts but he's been out a year now, who knows how he'll return.
The rest wouldn't.
Click to expand...

It would be nice to have some options off the bench rather than kids. Kids who at any other club would be out on loan getting experience.
 

Belvedere Blade said:
www.examinerlive.co.uk

Slimane, Baldock, Traore - Sheffield United injury latest and absence explained

The Blades had some noticeable absentees from their starting line-up at the City Ground on Friday evening
www.examinerlive.co.uk www.examinerlive.co.uk
Click to expand...
Not once, in any of that, are any comparisons made to yet more hamstring/calf issues. Is it an access thing? Journalists afraid to ask tough questions? Brand new signing training with the squad for a month, bang! Out with a hamstring problem. It was laughable 12 months ago, no idea what it is now.
 
Some of you guys on this thread sound like you know what your on about, I don't, but have been in total agreement with what you are saying for 2 seasons now. Chris Wilder regeme didn't have these problems, same training facilities!
New Pitch at Shirecliffe was blamed but it doesn’t seem to have made any difference, plus its not even the winter conditions yet.
If any of you guys are qualified in this field, please for the sake of our season, bang some emails off to the Prince, we need all the help we can get.
 
Potentially if rumours are true re Brewster we can probably forget him and RND for the foreseeable. Ghostly memories of JOC setting in for me.

Worrying McB, and Baldock were no shows. George in particular look a bit more the a risk judgement.

Slimane and Treore now limped off

it’s getting worse than the last injury crisis and puts a question marker over our fitness and conditioning.
 
Blade56 said:
Potentially if rumours are true re Brewster we can probably forget him and RND for the foreseeable. Ghostly memories of JOC setting in for me.

Worrying McB, and Baldock were no shows. George in particular look a bit more the a risk judgement.

Slimane and Treore now limped off

it’s getting worse than the last injury crisis and puts a question marker over our fitness and conditioning.
Click to expand...

There been more news on him this weekend?
 
Surely the staff must wonder why these injuries are always occurring and think it's the training routine that's the problem, especially after all these years at Heckys previous clubs, as I mentioned before🤔
 
Pintor75 said:
Surely the staff must wonder why these injuries are always occurring and think it's the training routine that's the problem, especially after all these years at Heckys previous clubs, as I mentioned before🤔
Click to expand...

Can you put some flesh on the bones re injuries at Heckingbottom's previous clubs?

Because I flicked through the records of his old teams, and it was not immediately apparent from that exercise that there were a lot of injuries.

People always say this, and it may be true. it would be nice to be shown evidence that it's true.
 
Revolution said:
Can you put some flesh on the bones re injuries at Heckingbottom's previous clubs?

Because I flicked through the records of his old teams, and it was not immediately apparent from that exercise that there were a lot of injuries.

People always say this, and it may be true. it would be nice to be shown evidence that it's true.
Click to expand...
See post no1, on this forum, titled heckingbottom injuries
I typed in to google, "Heckingbottom injuries at his clubs "
It's funny that lots are muscle or hamstring related
 
It's now beyond funny this.
The squad would be so much stronger if we didn't have so many long term injuries. % Squad availability would be a useful measure to track game by game and compare with other clubs to see if, and by how far, we are an outlier.
That's a basic management process I'd have thought. Then if that shows we are really out of step with the rest of the industry, start finding out why and fix it.
It's not rocket science and can't be down to bad luck. It's being going on too long for that!
 
Pintor75 said:
See post no1, on this forum, titled heckingbottom injuries
I typed in to google, "Heckingbottom injuries at his clubs "
It's funny that lots are muscle or hamstring related
Click to expand...

Like I have said repeatedly he is out of excuses for these injuries.

Wilder did full tilt training and the worst that happened was a freak injury to JOC and players like Moose being lazy not sticking to their fitness regime. Now with Hecky its almost a knee injury or hammy every month.

Fleck and RND we assume won't be named in the 25 man squad. It's debatable if it's even worth naming Brewster in the list as we are back to being in the dark with regards his fitness.
 
Bladesman said:
Like I have said repeatedly he is out of excuses for these injuries.

Wilder did full tilt training and the worst that happened was a freak injury to JOC and players like Moose being lazy not sticking to their fitness regime. Now with Hecky its almost a knee injury or hammy every month.

Fleck and RND we assume won't be named in the 25 man squad. It's debatable if it's even worth naming Brewster in the list as we are back to being in the dark with regards his fitness.
Click to expand...
This seems like an over-simplification.
Is Hecky in full charge of the physio, medical, strength and conditioning teams?
Are they fully staffed?
The guy (Little?) who came in from PNE, seemed to be leading our fitness team - things seemed to get worse not long after his appointment.
Are they allowed to spend money on player re-hab (say oxygen tanks) etc?
Are the medical and physio teams incentivised financially to speed up rehab or paid on a day/salary rate?
Do returning players have individual return plans and are they coached one and one on these with a PT? Warnock seemed to hate injured players and often talked about excluding them from the dressing room etc
Perhaps Wilder had a more bullish approach to returning player selection and would pick players at 80% fitness whereas Hecky waits until they are 95% say?
I guess you can question the split of cardio/strength training (ie our players seem muscley and strong but not as quick or as full of stamina as other clubs), do they do too much gym work?
Maybe also look at the intensity of training sessions, ie the players seem to go at full tilt in training and often injure each other/themselves. Maybe this makes them a better player and more ready for matches but does naturally have an attrition factor. Should we be 'protecting' our players more in training - particularly given that hard physical tackles in the Premier are generally not allowed by refs and now that our players are more 'valuable'.
Have we signed a load of crocks recently - ie players who are much more likely to get injured (ie Brewster with hamstrings, McBurnie with knee/ankle/shin; Bogle)? What is our medical process like for new signings, how much importance do we place on availablity as versus ability? You could look at our due diligence on signings and contract renewals (ie new contract to Fleck coming off the back of a bad leg break at 31 y/o, and looking overweight at end of last season, it was a calmitously bad and risky decision).
I am not in football but have been in a few other industries and I would say that they need:
  • more money
  • Better facilities
  • more staff
  • better direction (Director of Football?)
 
I think we have just been unlucky with players that are injury prone. It happens.
As a teenager, and into my early 20’s I was as fit as a butchers dog but plagued with one injury after another. I played at semi-professional standard and trained at various clubs. I did exactly the same warm ups/downs as other players and trained at the same level but for some reason I suffered with numerous muscle injuries over a sustained period of time.
Maybe it’s nobodies actual fault ❓
 

Rudders said:
This seems like an over-simplification.
Is Hecky in full charge of the physio, medical, strength and conditioning teams?
Are they fully staffed?
The guy (Little?) who came in from PNE, seemed to be leading our fitness team - things seemed to get worse not long after his appointment.
Are they allowed to spend money on player re-hab (say oxygen tanks) etc?
Are the medical and physio teams incentivised financially to speed up rehab or paid on a day/salary rate?
Do returning players have individual return plans and are they coached one and one on these with a PT? Warnock seemed to hate injured players and often talked about excluding them from the dressing room etc
Perhaps Wilder had a more bullish approach to returning player selection and would pick players at 80% fitness whereas Hecky waits until they are 95% say?
I guess you can question the split of cardio/strength training (ie our players seem muscley and strong but not as quick or as full of stamina as other clubs), do they do too much gym work?
Maybe also look at the intensity of training sessions, ie the players seem to go at full tilt in training and often injure each other/themselves. Maybe this makes them a better player and more ready for matches but does naturally have an attrition factor. Should we be 'protecting' our players more in training - particularly given that hard physical tackles in the Premier are generally not allowed by refs and now that our players are more 'valuable'.
Have we signed a load of crocks recently - ie players who are much more likely to get injured (ie Brewster with hamstrings, McBurnie with knee/ankle/shin; Bogle)? What is our medical process like for new signings, how much importance do we place on availablity as versus ability? You could look at our due diligence on signings and contract renewals (ie new contract to Fleck coming off the back of a bad leg break at 31 y/o, and looking overweight at end of last season, it was a calmitously bad and risky decision).
I am not in football but have been in a few other industries and I would say that they need:
  • more money
  • Better facilities
  • more staff
  • better direction (Director of Football?)
Click to expand...

We are getting the same sort of injuries with most of our players that falls back on the manager and his staff. Wilder managed to keep 95% of the squad fit with arguably much fewer resources at his disposal for 4 years or so.

Maybe it is an over-simplification but factor in Hecky's player injury history at previous clubs then it might be more than just bad luck and not enough resources.
 
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