Retained List

[KiwiBlabe]

Generally agree with those points but Ramsdale was better than Wes (had a poor first half of the season but a good second half) and I don't remember a time when Burke was first choice. Surely it was McBurnie? He got injured a couple of times, but he was first choice.

I have to disagree on Ramsdale. I still believe he was instrumental in us getting relegated. The 1st 2/3 of the season he was awful and the defence fell apart because of him. I'm not going on a witch hunt against him but until well after Christmas he was dreadful.
We may we'll have been relegated with Deano here, but I still honestly believe we would have taken it to the last few games at least.
All that said, staying up will be very tough next year.

 

[Keen Blade]

What makes you think it's not been submitted to the EFL?

Good point well made

 

[Keen Blade]

The EFL won't give any favours. The list will have been submitted on time, the delay is down to us possibly negotiating with some of the players that were on that initial list....who are officially free agents so will also be talking, (possibly) to other clubs.

There is a rule to submit the list by a certain deadline but no rule to say when that list should be made public.

Thanks , that's helpful.

 

[bakeblade]

The EFL won't give any favours. The list will have been submitted on time, the delay is down to us possibly negotiating with some of the players that were on that initial list....who are officially free agents so will also be talking, (possibly) to other clubs.

There is a rule to submit the list by a certain deadline but no rule to say when that list should be made public.

I understand the EFL publicise it mid June, so we have until that date although surely we will not wait that long.
I assume the ones definitely being released have been told, so they can start considering other options.

 

[Gavlar]

Is it today dad?

 

[ancientblade]

if manning comes in him and rnd will be vying for that lwb role i think lowe will be sold if that happens but im also doubtful rnd will be fit for the new season in which case lowe wont be sold

 

[Mouth of the South]

I'd be surprised if there are many shocks on the list when it is released (so I don't quite get the clamour for it!). It doesn't take a UEFA Pro Licensed coach to conclude that Stevens', Fleck's, JOC's and (hopefully) Osborn's time at the club should come to an end (with 3 of the 4 having been fantastic players to the club who will leave legacies for the important roles they played in the club's most successful period in recent times). The club need a better GK combo than Wes and Davies and I can't imagine the latter will be happy to be third choice so I expect him to leave as well.

 

[Tarqs]

Then // Now

Goalkeepers
First choice: Ramsdale // Foderingham - as good as Ramsdale has been for Arsenal he was bad for us. At worst this is level
Backup: Foderingham // Davies - Davies is a downgrade
Third: Verrips // Amissah/Dewhurst - hopeless vs untested. Can't make a judgment

Defence
RWB: Baldock // Baldock - same player but he's matured
RCB: Basham // Ahmedhodzic - much though I love Basham, Ahmedhodzic is an upgrade
CB: Egan // Egan - same player, no signs of slowing down
LCB: Ampadu // Robinson - Robinson is an upgrade but question marks over his ability at PL level. Ampadu was weak.
LWB: Stevens // Lowe - no doubt that Stevens two years ago was still a capable wing back

Backups:
CBs Jagielka, Robinson & Bryan // ? - Jags' experience was vital, the less said about Kean Bryan the better. We don't really have any backups at the moment though, it'd be into the U21s.
WBs Bogle // Bogle - the injuries seem to have slowed him slightly. Hopefully the rest will do him good.


Midfield
RCM: Lundstram // Berge - starting with 10 would be an upgrade on the embarrassing performances John Lundstram put in. Berge is a big plus
CM: Norwood // Norwood - Norwood is starting to slow down so the 20/21 version takes this one. Priority position for recruitment
LCM: Fleck // ? - Fleck is out of contract and has regressed so even if he stays he will be worse than the 20/21 version. Another priority position.

Backups: Osborn // ? - Osborn also out of contract and has proven that he is not good enough to be retained

Forwards
SS: McGoldrick // Ndiaye - everyone loves Didzy but Ndiaye is, at our level, generational.
ST: Burke // McBurnie - like him or not, McBurnie is a vast upgrade on Oli The Burke
Backups: McBurnie, Sharp, Mousset & Brewster // Jebbison, Brewster & Osula - McBurnie seems to be sorting himself out and is far more reliable while 20/21 Mousset was a waste of space. Sharp will be missed for his influence if he's released but his race is run as a top flight player. The potential of Jebbison and Osula should offer more than Mousset and Sharp over the course of next season

I make that 20/21 having the better midfield but 22/23 the better defence and forwards. Keeper is a tossup. Squad depth much better in 20/21 but mainly filled with inadequate players - are they better than having noone like we do now?

At a squad level there's some seriously shallow bits (midfield!) but the first team is stronger now than the one which came down. If we get the recruitment right (and that's a big if) then we'll do better than we did in 20/21...although that is not a high bar.

Whilst I think this is a decent piece, you can't put Burke as a first choice striker in our Prem seasons.

 

[Tarqs]

I have to disagree on Ramsdale. I still believe he was instrumental in us getting relegated. The 1st 2/3 of the season he was awful and the defence fell apart because of him. I'm not going on a witch hunt against him but until well after Christmas he was dreadful.
We may we'll have been relegated with Deano here, but I still honestly believe we would have taken it to the last few games at least.
All that said, staying up will be very tough next year.

We never attacked, we were on a hiding to nothing every game. It could be argued Ramsdale fell apart because of the shocking defence in front of him.

Most only hate Ramsdale because of what he said about us in a lads piece....

 

[Gimli]

Thoughtful comments.

It would be interesting to bookmark and then revise your thoughts when the window closes.

I think we do have a solid enough spine, that with 4/5 (hopefully more) good additions we can have a genuine bash at staying up.

 

[KiwiBlabe]

We never attacked, we were on a hiding to nothing every game. It could be argued Ramsdale fell apart because of the shocking defence in front of him.

Most only hate Ramsdale because of what he said about us in a lads piece....

Eventually that season we didn't attack. However at the start of the season he was dire, he didn't make any saves you would not expect him to. He did let lots of shots in that should not have gone in. This affected the team as a whole and the defence even more. Missing JOC was huge too and I think it was a combination of missing 2 key players (Deano and JOC) that meant the rest of the team needed to always be on absolute top form and we couldnt do it.
By the time Ramsdale came good it didn't matter, we were gone and the pressure was off. Ramsdale couldn't cope with the pressure when it mattered in that season.
Subsequent to that henehaved like an absolute cock to the club he purported to support when he signed for us. Everything I have seen from him since he left us has confirmed that he is an absolute bell end. Yes he has improved as a keeper, but as a human I have no time whatsoever for him. I am being very polite here .

 

[CPB]

I have to disagree on Ramsdale. I still believe he was instrumental in us getting relegated. The 1st 2/3 of the season he was awful and the defence fell apart because of him. I'm not going on a witch hunt against him but until well after Christmas he was dreadful.
We may we'll have been relegated with Deano here, but I still honestly believe we would have taken it to the last few games at least.
All that said, staying up will be very tough next year.

I don't think Ramsdale was the reason we dropped as many points. But I do agree Ramsdale seemed to have a little error in him 1st half of season and usually he got punished.

Truth be told I think biggest loss was still JOC. He really firmed us up defensively but also meant our overlapping CBs really had two sides of outlets.
We also saw players drop in form post covid, in particular Fleck, Lundstram and a larger than life Moussett.

I also reckon that in that 2nd season the 1st win just came too late. Like we had a few matches earlyish where we could easily had the ball dropped been on the winning side of things. In particular Leeds and Fulham at home, Villa away with the Egan red and missed pen. And West Brom away where we dominated but couldn't score.
Win one of those and whole mood lifts, we didn't get a win till Jan! By which point the squad is more or less defeated.

 

[Torrix1889]

Could it be that Wes leaves?

His contract is up and Davies has another year....if we low-ball Wes, (which lets face it if he's going to be No2 we will have) he may be one of the ones looking elsewhere with a relatively low offer of a 1 or 2 year deal on the table....?

I would be reasonably happy with a new and better No1 and Davies as back-up, he did more than OK when he came in after Wes was sent off v Burnley.

 

[Gimli]

I don't think Ramsdale was the reason we dropped as many points. But I do agree Ramsdale seemed to have a little error in him 1st half of season and usually he got punished.

Truth be told I think biggest loss was still JOC. He really firmed us up defensively but also meant our overlapping CBs really had two sides of outlets.
We also saw players drop in form post covid, in particular Fleck, Lundstram and a larger than life Moussett.

I also reckon that in that 2nd season the 1st win just came too late. Like we had a few matches earlyish where we could easily had the ball dropped been on the winning side of things. In particular Leeds and Fulham at home, Villa away with the Egan red and missed pen. And West Brom away where we dominated but couldn't score.
Win one of those and whole mood lifts, we didn't get a win till Jan! By which point the squad is more or less defeated.

I think we all like to remember that season as the worst ever, and it was pretty bad…

But we actually mustered 7 wins - which is more than saints had this season. I agree if we’d had that first win earlier we might had survived…

 

[Tarqs]

Eventually that season we didn't attack. However at the start of the season he was dire, he didn't make any saves you would not expect him to. He did let lots of shots in that should not have gone in. This affected the team as a whole and the defence even more. Missing JOC was huge too and I think it was a combination of missing 2 key players (Deano and JOC) that meant the rest of the team needed to always be on absolute top form and we couldnt do it.
By the time Ramsdale came good it didn't matter, we were gone and the pressure was off. Ramsdale couldn't cope with the pressure when it mattered in that season.
Subsequent to that henehaved like an absolute cock to the club he purported to support when he signed for us. Everything I have seen from him since he left us has confirmed that he is an absolute bell end. Yes he has improved as a keeper, but as a human I have no time whatsoever for him. I am being very polite here .

Ramsdale is from Stoke - he's never supported the Blades.

But, yeah, I suppose that first goal he conceded vs Wolves (and Wolves weren't even great in that first game), was pretty poor.

 

[KiwiBlabe]

When he came back, he did say that this was his club and he is a Blade. Must have been as he was returning.

 

[coolasanidiot]

Could it be that Wes leaves?

His contract is up and Davies has another year....if we low-ball Wes, (which lets face it if he's going to be No2 we will have) he may be one of the ones looking elsewhere with a relatively low offer of a 1 or 2 year deal on the table....?

I would be reasonably happy with a new and better No1 and Davies as back-up, he did more than OK when he came in after Wes was sent off v Burnley.

Totally disagree here - Wes is comfortably way better than Davies. Davies is a shocking keeper. Wes by contrast has proved himself without doubt a class act-

I'm totally happy with Wes No 1 next year- he brings a cool head time & time again- he deserves a contract he deserves to be No 1 - he deserves a better back up than Davies.

 

[Balham]

Whilst I think this is a decent piece, you can't put Burke as a first choice striker in our Prem seasons.

I just went on starts. There's probably an argument that McBurnie was first choice but was injured most of the time but even so I'd say that this year's version of McBurnie was better than 20/21's in the same way that Baldock has improved since that season.

20/21 striker stats:
David McGoldrick 28+7 apps, 8 goals
Oli The Burke 14+11 apps, 1 goal
Rhian Brewster 12+15 apps, 0 goals
Oli McBurnie 12+11 apps, 1 goal
Billy Sharp 7+9 apps, 3 goals (2 penalties)
Daniel Jebbison 3+1 apps, 1 goal
Lys Mousset 2+9 apps, 0 goals
Iliman Ndiaye 0+1 apps, 0 goals
Antwoine Hackford 0+1 apps, 0 goals

 

[JohnDenver]

Ramsdale is from Stoke - he's never supported the Blades.

But, yeah, I suppose that first goal he conceded vs Wolves (and Wolves weren't even great in that first game), was pretty poor.

In order:

Wolves >>> Ramsdale >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lundstram

 

[Torrix1889]

Totally disagree here - Wes is comfortably way better than Davies. Davies is a shocking keeper. Wes by contrast has proved himself without doubt a class act-

I'm totally happy with Wes No 1 next year- he brings a cool head time & time again- he deserves a contract he deserves to be No 1 - he deserves a better back up than Davies.

I haven't said Davies is as good as Wes, but I am saying, (IMO) that Wes isn't good enough for the Prem. I think he got away with things in the Championship that he would be punished for severely at the top level.....he certainly won us points but how many heart-in-mouth moments does he give.......at least a couple of times a game.

Perfect solution would be a new No1 with Wes as No2 but I don't think he will be happy with that....Wes leaving could be the surprise of the Retained List, when it comes out.

 

[brownblade]

I just went on starts. There's probably an argument that McBurnie was first choice but was injured most of the time but even so I'd say that this year's version of McBurnie was better than 20/21's in the same way that Baldock has improved since that season.

20/21 striker stats:
David McGoldrick 28+7 apps, 8 goals
Oli The Burke 14+11 apps, 1 goal
Rhian Brewster 12+15 apps, 0 goals
Oli McBurnie 12+11 apps, 1 goal
Billy Sharp 7+9 apps, 3 goals (2 penalties)
Daniel Jebbison 3+1 apps, 1 goal
Lys Mousset 2+9 apps, 0 goals
Iliman Ndiaye 0+1 apps, 0 goals
Antwoine Hackford 0+1 apps, 0 goals

Wow. Stark reading. No wonder we were no threat that dark dark season.

 

[Teddy]

Back to RND - I think a lot depends on how he’s looking recovery-wise and, if he’s looking good, where Hecky sees him playing.

If they’re keen to make him an LCB then maybe you go with Robinson and RND to scrap for that shirt… with new blood in at LWB and Lowe moves to backup.

Alternatively, if they want him to be an LWB then maybe he starts there with Lowe as backup… the LCB slot then becomes new signing for the starting 11 with Robinson as backup.

Either way I think we are stronger. The risk is RND’s injury looks so bad that we can’t rely on him at all… then we’d need new signings in both LCB and LWB, expensive and lack of familiarity on the left could cause us teething issues.

Here endeth the (tediously long) lesson.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

I haven't said Davies is as good as Wes, but I am saying, (IMO) that Wes isn't good enough for the Prem. I think he got away with things in the Championship that he would be punished for severely at the top level.....he certainly won us points but how many heart-in-mouth moments does he give.......at least a couple of times a game.

Perfect solution would be a new No1 with Wes as No2 but I don't think he will be happy with that....Wes leaving could be the surprise of the Retained List, when it comes out.

In an ideal world I agree - having Wes a solid number 2 would be great. Much better option than Simon Moore was for example

But it’s a question of resource allocation.

If Wes is the 15-18 best keeper in the league and is broadly league average. Which I think he probably is…. I think that’s probably fine.

Say it’s a choice between signing an upgrade at keeper or signing an upgrade on Lowe (who would unfortunately I think would be the worst left back in the PL ) for me it’s a no brainier. Keep Wes and use the resources on areas of greater need.

 

[COME BACK CHED]

We never attacked, we were on a hiding to nothing every game. It could be argued Ramsdale fell apart because of the shocking defence in front of him.

Most only hate Ramsdale because of what he said about us in a lads piece....

No Ramsdale refused to play for us , he had his selfish reasons and boasted about them after on a podcast , but that is why some dis-like him , however you can still support a team even if fans hate you , it`s not the school playground, Martin Woolford is another story

 

[Tarqs]

No Ramsdale refused to play for us , he had his selfish reasons and boasted about them after on a podcast , but that is why some dis-like him , however you can still support a team even if fans hate you , it`s not the school playground, Martin Woolford is another story

He did, because the club went back on their promise to sell him should a certain valuation be met.

 

[robbiez666]

He did, because the club went back on their promise to sell him should a certain valuation be met.

Yep, people castigate him for wanting to move but also forget he didn't want to leave in the first place first time round and we basically forced him out for the money.

 

[COME BACK CHED]

He did, because the club went back on their promise to sell him should a certain valuation be met.

Agents lie , footballers lie, clubs lie , guess we will never know the truth . But i know what greed is

 

[Mouth of the South]

In an ideal world I agree - having Wes a solid number 2 would be great. Much better option than Simon Moore was for example

But it’s a question of resource allocation.

If Wes is the 15-18 best keeper in the league and is broadly league average. Which I think he probably is…. I think that’s probably fine.

Say it’s a choice between signing an upgrade at keeper or signing an upgrade on Lowe (who would unfortunately I think would be the worst left back in the PL ) for me it’s a no brainier. Keep Wes and use the resources on areas of greater need.

You're right in terms prioritising budget to requirements but I'd struggle to name 5 worse keepers than Wes in the Prem.

Lowe I totally agree on - I think he struggled for large parts last season. He'll be a (very) weak link next season, especially if Robinson is not replaced.

 

[Tarqs]

Agents lie , footballers lie, clubs lie , guess we will never know the truth . But i know what greed is

Or ambition...

 

[Bladeinleeds]

You're right in terms prioritising budget to requirements but I'd struggle to name 5 worse keepers than Wes in the Prem.

Lowe I totally agree on - I think he struggled for large parts last season. He'll be a (very) weak link next season, especially if Robinson is not replaced.

Yeah Maybe not. I think the point is if he’s broadly average / slightly below average we’d be able to get by. I don’t think he’d be performing like the worst starting keeper - Burnley’s looked terrible in the BL game this year for example

He’s been reliable over his time here and there’s no reason it couldn’t continue. So I could see the logic in looking elsewhere with the budget or limited loan options first and foremost.