Retained List

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skinje

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Any idea when the retained list will be circulated? Assume it'll be pretty soon to give any of the released players fair warning to their agents before they go away on their holidays! We've got to recalibrate to putting a squad together capable of finishing 17th now.
 

The more I hear Hecky, and the more I think of the players out of contract, the more I worry he might offer them ALL an extention.

*with the exception of JOC.
 
Hecky was wanting to speak to Bettis this morning and then do the rounds of the out of contract players today supposedly. There's a lot of them so I can't see the list coming out today.
 
Yeah I'd assume that once he's spoken with Bettis, he'll then need to negotiate contracts too, so potentially we might not hear anything for a while yet
 
From the pig end said:
The more I hear Hecky, and the more I think of the players out of contract, the more I worry he might offer them ALL an extention.

*with the exception of JOC.
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Yep, I'm all for continuity but there is a line. FWIW I'd offer deals to:

McBurnie
Norwood
Robinson
Foderingham

All on the proviso they are squad/ backup to first XI.

I'd retain Coulibaly and loan him to L1/ Champ.

No offer to:

Stevens
Fleck
Osborn
JOC
Sharp (heavy heart)

However, it sounds like the offered list will be longer than the above 5 and I think a recent interview intimated Sharp had been made an offer, for example.
 
Lord Eddard Muir said:
Hecky was wanting to speak to Bettis this morning and then do the rounds of the out of contract players today supposedly. There's a lot of them so I can't see the list coming out today.
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From Hecky's post match interview I take it? I'd have to watch it again, but I seem to remember he said he'd be speaking to Bettis today to confirm the club's stance, then he'd speak to the players this week (presumably to offer them a contract or tell them they're not required).
 
Y
skinje said:
Yep, I'm all for continuity but there is a line. FWIW I'd offer deals to:

McBurnie
Norwood
Robinson
Foderingham

All on the proviso they are squad/ backup to first XI.

I'd retain Coulibaly and loan him to L1/ Champ.

No offer to:

Stevens
Fleck
Osborn
JOC
Sharp (heavy heart)

However, it sounds like the offered list will be longer than the above 5 and I think a recent interview intimated Sharp had been made an offer, for example.
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Yep, I'd agree with all that.
I understand that the more we lose, the more we have to replace, the further our transfer kitty has to stretch. I just don't see the point in Fleck, Os and Stevens being in a Premier League squad any more.
 
From the pig end said:
Y
Yep, I'd agree with all that.
I understand that the more we lose, the more we have to replace, the further our transfer kitty has to stretch. I just don't see the point in Fleck, Os and Stevens being in a Premier League squad any more.
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I think yesterday was Fleck's last chance to impress - and he certainly didn't! The ease with which Birmingham's midfielders breezed past him was embarassing. Always out of position, not big enough, not fast enough. He would get destroyed next year.
I thought Stevens offered more than Lowe in the last two games, in terms of being braver on the ball - but is that any reason to offer him another contract? Probably not given what he's offered over the last couple of years.
Os full of energy and running, under-rated with his dead balls - but again, not big enough or fast enough.
 
Given we are going to spend 60% or more of most matches out of possession we need a squad of predominantly fit and fast players who can run for 90 mins and press the hell out of sides. Just one person not doing that and the whole system falls apart as premier league sides pass their way through you and around you and run right past you.

That's why it's pretty easy to see which players shouldn't be retained. It's also a potential reason for retaining Ozzy.
 
The only two I’d be pissed off to see retained are JOC and Stevens - simply because you’re so unlikely to get any football out of them (love them both but injuries have destroyed them).

The others I can see have a role to play - ideally not starting 11, but we need bodies, particularly if we’re going to loan out some of the younger players who desperately need regular football (Blaster, Coulibaly… Jebbo and/or Osula etc). Bodies already in the club are going to cost a lot less than new signings (even if they’re free transfer/loans).
 
Sounds from Hecky's interview that he wants to keep them all, but the board have other ideas (rightly so, IMO).
 

jt64 said:
And if the bodies already in the club are known to have zero utility in the PL, you're setting money on fire
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I think “zero utility” is unfair on several of the players in question. Certainly questionable utility at that level in several cases.

But the big picture is, if you sack off everyone out of contract how on earth do we afford a total squad rebuild (if rumours of very limited budget are true) - we need a 25 man squad, filling it out with youth risks not developing said youth for the future… and we’re likely to need them the following season if/when relegated.

Not saying I’m right and you’re wrong… just saying it’s going to be a tricky window to navigate.
 
Teddy said:
I think “zero utility” is unfair on several of the players in question. Certainly questionable utility at that level in several cases.

But the big picture is, if you sack off everyone out of contract how on earth do we afford a total squad rebuild (if rumours of very limited budget are true) - we need a 25 man squad, filling it out with youth risks not developing said youth for the future… and we’re likely to need them the following season if/when relegated.

Not saying I’m right and you’re wrong… just saying it’s going to be a tricky window to navigate.
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You do not need to do a total squad rebuild, nor do you need to fill out an entire 25 man squad. That's just the maximum, it's not a requirement. Keeping around aging players who I wouldn't have retained in the Championship just to write names on a piece of paper is just silly
 
jt64 said:
You do not need to do a total squad rebuild, nor do you need to fill out an entire 25 man squad. That's just the maximum, it's not a requirement. Keeping around aging players who I wouldn't have retained in the Championship just to write names on a piece of paper is just silly
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I’m not advocating keeping players just to write them on the list (of course that would be silly)…I think getting around the lack of bodies and budget by just naming fewer than 25 players in the squad would be a very risky business, especially considering our recent injury issues.

I think we just fundamentally disagree about the utility of some of these players. If you’re suggesting you wouldn’t even retain Oliver Norwood in the Championship then we’ll just need to agree to disagree. If you’re talking about JOC or Enda then fair play… but I agreed to them going in my original post.
 
Teddy said:
I’m not advocating keeping players just to write them on the list (of course that would be silly)…I think getting around the lack of bodies and budget by just naming fewer than 25 players in the squad would be a very risky business, especially considering our recent injury issues.

I think we just fundamentally disagree about the utility of some of these players. If you’re suggesting you wouldn’t even retain Oliver Norwood in the Championship then we’ll just need to agree to disagree. If you’re talking about JOC or Enda then fair play… but I agreed to them going in my original post.
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I'd keep Norwood for sure, as an off the bench/rotation option he's fine. I wouldn't retain any of Stevens, JOC, Fleck or Sharp, they're either completely done at the top two levels, have been surpassed in talent by multiple younger players at the same position, or both
 
jt64 said:
I'd keep Norwood for sure, as an off the bench/rotation option he's fine. I wouldn't retain any of Stevens, JOC, Fleck or Sharp, they're either completely done at the top two levels, have been surpassed in talent by multiple younger players at the same position, or both
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Don’t think we are that far apart then, in reality. I’d much prefer to replace players like Fleck and Osborn if we can - but given the budget it seems more likely that we’ll use what little money we have to strengthen the starting 11 - with players like Fleck, Norwood etc becoming the second choices. Otherwise we need to recruit new starters and new backups in several positions - just don’t see us having the resource to do that.
 
skinje said:
Yep, I'm all for continuity but there is a line. FWIW I'd offer deals to:

McBurnie
Norwood
Robinson
Foderingham

All on the proviso they are squad/ backup to first XI.

I'd retain Coulibaly and loan him to L1/ Champ.

No offer to:

Stevens
Fleck
Osborn
JOC
Sharp (heavy heart)

However, it sounds like the offered list will be longer than the above 5 and I think a recent interview intimated Sharp had been made an offer, for example.
Click to expand...
Interesting to see if Hecky thinks Wes can handle the Prem and use his budget elsewhere, or does he prioritise a GK with big game experience, not forgetting Wes played over 100 games for Rangers, inc Europe and Old Firm.

I can see Robbo been useful against some teams, and Norwood & McB are ok from the bench

Agree with the no offer list, except we should find a role for Billy - I hope he can go on one day to be an important part of our 1st team set up, but its on standard wages, no £20k a week contract out of sentimentality, if its £50k a year at u18s so be it, or he goes to Donny or something.
 
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Teddy said:
Don’t think we are that far apart then, in reality. I’d much prefer to replace players like Fleck and Osborn if we can - but given the budget it seems more likely that we’ll use what little money we have to strengthen the starting 11 - with players like Fleck, Norwood etc becoming the second choices. Otherwise we need to recruit new starters and new backups in several positions - just don’t see us having the resource to do that.
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Osborn at least offers workrate and versatility to cover multiple positions, we're going to need someone like that - not someone you would want to rely on, but in an emergency or as last player off the bench, will at least not fuck it up. Fleck offers neither at this stage in his career and I'd rather start any of Coulibaly, Arblaster, Brooks etc ahead of him.
 
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When a player is out of contract is there a rule about what wages you can offer them for a new contract. Ie are you allowed to offer less than their last contract because I think I heard a few years ago you can't. If that's true we will be paying a lot of money out to squad players if Fleck, Stevens, Sharp et al are kept
 
FriethBlade said:
When a player is out of contract is there a rule about what wages you can offer them for a new contract. Ie are you allowed to offer less than their last contract because I think I heard a few years ago you can't. If that's true we will be paying a lot of money out to squad players if Fleck, Stevens, Sharp et al are kept
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That is likely going to depend hugely upon whether a player is out of contract, or whether the contract is merely expiring. At this stage, you might be right. Two months down the line when the player is released, all contractual ties will have finished and that surely cannot be the case
 
stevens fleck and osborn will definetly not be offered new deals imo sharp and norwood are 50/50 i think
 

jt64 said:
Osborn at least workrate and versatility to cover multiple positions, we're going to need someone like that - not someone you would want to rely on, but in an emergency or as last player off the bench, will at least not fuck it up. Fleck offers neither at this stage in his career and I'd rather start any of Coulibaly, Arblaster, Brooks etc ahead of him.
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I don't understand some of the stick ozzy gets. He's not the best player in the squad by far, but when heads drop, he's still running around trying to make something happen.
 
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