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adiosmiamigo said:
No,in my opinion,he could be o.k.in the premiership and most of the defence,too.The problems are midfield and upfront,Ndiaye can't do it on his own.
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Just OK? He’s more than capable of making the step up to become one of the Premier Leagues most exciting players.
 

Nicolaus_Copernicus said:
But worse than the one we came down with in ‘21.
Click to expand...

Then // Now

Goalkeepers
First choice: Ramsdale // Foderingham - as good as Ramsdale has been for Arsenal he was bad for us. At worst this is level
Backup: Foderingham // Davies - Davies is a downgrade
Third: Verrips // Amissah/Dewhurst - hopeless vs untested. Can't make a judgment

Defence
RWB: Baldock // Baldock - same player but he's matured
RCB: Basham // Ahmedhodzic - much though I love Basham, Ahmedhodzic is an upgrade
CB: Egan // Egan - same player, no signs of slowing down
LCB: Ampadu // Robinson - Robinson is an upgrade but question marks over his ability at PL level. Ampadu was weak.
LWB: Stevens // Lowe - no doubt that Stevens two years ago was still a capable wing back

Backups:
CBs Jagielka, Robinson & Bryan // ? - Jags' experience was vital, the less said about Kean Bryan the better. We don't really have any backups at the moment though, it'd be into the U21s.
WBs Bogle // Bogle - the injuries seem to have slowed him slightly. Hopefully the rest will do him good.


Midfield
RCM: Lundstram // Berge - starting with 10 would be an upgrade on the embarrassing performances John Lundstram put in. Berge is a big plus
CM: Norwood // Norwood - Norwood is starting to slow down so the 20/21 version takes this one. Priority position for recruitment
LCM: Fleck // ? - Fleck is out of contract and has regressed so even if he stays he will be worse than the 20/21 version. Another priority position.

Backups: Osborn // ? - Osborn also out of contract and has proven that he is not good enough to be retained

Forwards
SS: McGoldrick // Ndiaye - everyone loves Didzy but Ndiaye is, at our level, generational.
ST: Burke // McBurnie - like him or not, McBurnie is a vast upgrade on Oli The Burke
Backups: McBurnie, Sharp, Mousset & Brewster // Jebbison, Brewster & Osula - McBurnie seems to be sorting himself out and is far more reliable while 20/21 Mousset was a waste of space. Sharp will be missed for his influence if he's released but his race is run as a top flight player. The potential of Jebbison and Osula should offer more than Mousset and Sharp over the course of next season

I make that 20/21 having the better midfield but 22/23 the better defence and forwards. Keeper is a tossup. Squad depth much better in 20/21 but mainly filled with inadequate players - are they better than having noone like we do now?

At a squad level there's some seriously shallow bits (midfield!) but the first team is stronger now than the one which came down. If we get the recruitment right (and that's a big if) then we'll do better than we did in 20/21...although that is not a high bar.
 
Balham Blade said:
Then // Now

Goalkeepers
First choice: Ramsdale // Foderingham - as good as Ramsdale has been for Arsenal he was bad for us. At worst this is level
Backup: Foderingham // Davies - Davies is a downgrade
Third: Verrips // Amissah/Dewhurst - hopeless vs untested. Can't make a judgment

Defence
RWB: Baldock // Baldock - same player but he's matured
RCB: Basham // Ahmedhodzic - much though I love Basham, Ahmedhodzic is an upgrade
CB: Egan // Egan - same player, no signs of slowing down
LCB: Ampadu // Robinson - Robinson is an upgrade but question marks over his ability at PL level. Ampadu was weak.
LWB: Stevens // Lowe - no doubt that Stevens two years ago was still a capable wing back

Backups:
CBs Jagielka, Robinson & Bryan // ? - Jags' experience was vital, the less said about Kean Bryan the better. We don't really have any backups at the moment though, it'd be into the U21s.
WBs Bogle // Bogle - the injuries seem to have slowed him slightly. Hopefully the rest will do him good.


Midfield
RCM: Lundstram // Berge - starting with 10 would be an upgrade on the embarrassing performances John Lundstram put in. Berge is a big plus
CM: Norwood // Norwood - Norwood is starting to slow down so the 20/21 version takes this one. Priority position for recruitment
LCM: Fleck // ? - Fleck is out of contract and has regressed so even if he stays he will be worse than the 20/21 version. Another priority position.

Backups: Osborn // ? - Osborn also out of contract and has proven that he is not good enough to be retained

Forwards
SS: McGoldrick // Ndiaye - everyone loves Didzy but Ndiaye is, at our level, generational.
ST: Burke // McBurnie - like him or not, McBurnie is a vast upgrade on Oli The Burke
Backups: McBurnie, Sharp, Mousset & Brewster // Jebbison, Brewster & Osula - McBurnie seems to be sorting himself out and is far more reliable while 20/21 Mousset was a waste of space. Sharp will be missed for his influence if he's released but his race is run as a top flight player. The potential of Jebbison and Osula should offer more than Mousset and Sharp over the course of next season

I make that 20/21 having the better midfield but 22/23 the better defence and forwards. Keeper is a tossup. Squad depth much better in 20/21 but mainly filled with inadequate players - are they better than having noone like we do now?

At a squad level there's some seriously shallow bits (midfield!) but the first team is stronger now than the one which came down. If we get the recruitment right (and that's a big if) then we'll do better than we did in 20/21...although that is not a high bar.
Click to expand...
Thoughtful comments.

It would be interesting to bookmark and then revise your thoughts when the window closes.
 
I see Coventry have done theirs by the looks of some articles, so have Boro and also Sunderland. So 3/4 teams finishing their season later.

I think that leaves Luton, Cardiff, Watford and us and those middle two said goodbye to managers at the end of the season.

Hopefully we'll get some news soon so we can all kick on with our idle speculation!
 
It's not a big deal really and it's more important that we make the right decisions with who stays and who goes. However, I understand that the details have already been formally lodged so I have to say I dont really understand the merits in not coming out by now with the details to the supporters so that ideal speculation is put aside. We do seem to more often than not, be on the last lap of keeping fans updated with things. As mentioned above, we are among 4 clubs and 2 of the others have had managerial change and the other got promoted via the play offs.
 
Not a new opinion but I think that the rumour Hecky wants to keep alot more than expected is likely true.
But I reckon there is a wage structure discussion going on. Might be hard but I wouldn't be surprised that if Billy Sharp stays on that he's actually taking a pay cut because we likely won't use him for many minutes. Similar with a few others under consideration for renewals?
And therefore leaving more room in wages for higher calibre and younger players to come in.
 
Keen Blade said:
Have we had special dispensation to delay the retained list until we can sign some replacements ?
Click to expand...

The EFL won't give any favours. The list will have been submitted on time, the delay is down to us possibly negotiating with some of the players that were on that initial list....who are officially free agents so will also be talking, (possibly) to other clubs.

There is a rule to submit the list by a certain deadline but no rule to say when that list should be made public.
 
Weasel said:
It's not a big deal really and it's more important that we make the right decisions with who stays and who goes. However, I understand that the details have already been formally lodged so I have to say I dont really understand the merits in not coming out by now with the details to the supporters so that ideal speculation is put aside. We do seem to more often than not, be on the last lap of keeping fans updated with things. As mentioned above, we are among 4 clubs and 2 of the others have had managerial change and the other got promoted via the play offs.
Click to expand...
Haven't offered renewals to everyone.

Probably offered cheap contracts to one or two and they're undecided.

Importantly Billy, Enda, and Fleck deserve to say goodbye on their own terms, not just be name on a "retained list".
 
CPB said:
Not a new opinion but I think that the rumour Hecky wants to keep alot more than expected is likely true.
But I reckon there is a wage structure discussion going on. Might be hard but I wouldn't be surprised that if Billy Sharp stays on that he's actually taking a pay cut because we likely won't use him for many minutes. Similar with a few others under consideration for renewals?
And therefore leaving more room in wages for higher calibre and younger players to come in.
Click to expand...

Lot of truth in that I would imagine. Guess the conversations went something like this;

Conversation 1

Hecky - "Hi, (insert player name) your contract is up and the Board don't want to offer you a new one. Thanks for your efforts and ta-ta".
Player - "fuck the Board, see-ya".

Conversation 2

Hecky - "Hi, (insert player name) your contract is up and the Board don't want to offer you a new one on the same wage"
Player - "OK, well what will they offer?"
Hecky - "One year at half your current wage"
Player - "fuck the board, I'm off to speak to other clubs......erm, but don't tell them no just yet Gaffer"
 

Balham Blade said:
Then // Now

Goalkeepers
First choice: Ramsdale // Foderingham - as good as Ramsdale has been for Arsenal he was bad for us. At worst this is level
Backup: Foderingham // Davies - Davies is a downgrade
Third: Verrips // Amissah/Dewhurst - hopeless vs untested. Can't make a judgment

Defence
RWB: Baldock // Baldock - same player but he's matured
RCB: Basham // Ahmedhodzic - much though I love Basham, Ahmedhodzic is an upgrade
CB: Egan // Egan - same player, no signs of slowing down
LCB: Ampadu // Robinson - Robinson is an upgrade but question marks over his ability at PL level. Ampadu was weak.
LWB: Stevens // Lowe - no doubt that Stevens two years ago was still a capable wing back

Backups:
CBs Jagielka, Robinson & Bryan // ? - Jags' experience was vital, the less said about Kean Bryan the better. We don't really have any backups at the moment though, it'd be into the U21s.
WBs Bogle // Bogle - the injuries seem to have slowed him slightly. Hopefully the rest will do him good.


Midfield
RCM: Lundstram // Berge - starting with 10 would be an upgrade on the embarrassing performances John Lundstram put in. Berge is a big plus
CM: Norwood // Norwood - Norwood is starting to slow down so the 20/21 version takes this one. Priority position for recruitment
LCM: Fleck // ? - Fleck is out of contract and has regressed so even if he stays he will be worse than the 20/21 version. Another priority position.

Backups: Osborn // ? - Osborn also out of contract and has proven that he is not good enough to be retained

Forwards
SS: McGoldrick // Ndiaye - everyone loves Didzy but Ndiaye is, at our level, generational.
ST: Burke // McBurnie - like him or not, McBurnie is a vast upgrade on Oli The Burke
Backups: McBurnie, Sharp, Mousset & Brewster // Jebbison, Brewster & Osula - McBurnie seems to be sorting himself out and is far more reliable while 20/21 Mousset was a waste of space. Sharp will be missed for his influence if he's released but his race is run as a top flight player. The potential of Jebbison and Osula should offer more than Mousset and Sharp over the course of next season

I make that 20/21 having the better midfield but 22/23 the better defence and forwards. Keeper is a tossup. Squad depth much better in 20/21 but mainly filled with inadequate players - are they better than having noone like we do now?

At a squad level there's some seriously shallow bits (midfield!) but the first team is stronger now than the one which came down. If we get the recruitment right (and that's a big if) then we'll do better than we did in 20/21...although that is not a high bar.
Click to expand...

Nitpicking here and doesn't change your overall point, but Enda has sadly been a shell of himself for a lot longer than two years. I'd say that's at worst a toss-up between him then and Lowe now (and I'm not exactly sold on Lowe).
 
Beans said:
Nitpicking here and doesn't change your overall point, but Enda has sadly been a shell of himself for a lot longer than two years. I'd say that's at worst a toss-up between him then and Lowe now (and I'm not exactly sold on Lowe).
Click to expand...
I did think that as I wrote it. Enda hasn't been the same since lockdown.
 
Wards said:
RND will be first choice left wing back if fit anyway. And a good one at that. A massive step up on Lowe and the Stevens of the last 2 years.
Click to expand...
I have high hopes for RND if he comes back at the same level he was performing before his injury. There were rumours then of Premier League interest from Leicester and Palace I believe, the latter having an especially good record of identifying good young talent players in the Championship.

Given we're most likely to approach the Premier League pragmatically, I'd be very happy with the defensive solidity and athleticism in the team by having Baldock & RND as our wingbacks.
 
Wards said:
RND will be first choice left wing back if fit anyway. And a good one at that. A massive step up on Lowe and the Stevens of the last 2 years.
Click to expand...
Agreed - but I don't think he'll be fit for the new season, and there's always a worry about how they come back from serious injury.
 
Wards said:
RND will be first choice left wing back if fit anyway. And a good one at that. A massive step up on Lowe and the Stevens of the last 2 years.
Click to expand...
I really like RND but I don't think his first touch or crossing is good enough for Prem effectiveness. We won't get too many chances up front compared to last season.

We know that's the case for Baldock as well, but it makes me inclined to try RND at LCB.

Would definitely understand if Hecky wants RNDs reliability at LWB though.

If fit... 🤞
 
brownblade said:
I really like RND but I don't think his first touch or crossing is good enough for Prem effectiveness. We won't get too many chances up front compared to last season.

We know that's the case for Baldock as well, but it makes me inclined to try RND at LCB.

Would definitely understand if Hecky wants RNDs reliability at LWB though.

If fit... 🤞
Click to expand...

Think the problem with RND this last season was covering for the LCB in either bomb-scare Clarke or JLT, although JLT improved considerably second half of the season, which was a good job as he had to cover for Max Lowe a lot of the time......

Contrast that with the right side where you had the ever-reliable Anel who gave George/Bogle the freedom to attack.

Get a good LCB in and you will see the best of RND
 
Balham Blade said:
Then // Now

Goalkeepers
First choice: Ramsdale // Foderingham - as good as Ramsdale has been for Arsenal he was bad for us. At worst this is level
Backup: Foderingham // Davies - Davies is a downgrade
Third: Verrips // Amissah/Dewhurst - hopeless vs untested. Can't make a judgment

Defence
RWB: Baldock // Baldock - same player but he's matured
RCB: Basham // Ahmedhodzic - much though I love Basham, Ahmedhodzic is an upgrade
CB: Egan // Egan - same player, no signs of slowing down
LCB: Ampadu // Robinson - Robinson is an upgrade but question marks over his ability at PL level. Ampadu was weak.
LWB: Stevens // Lowe - no doubt that Stevens two years ago was still a capable wing back

Backups:
CBs Jagielka, Robinson & Bryan // ? - Jags' experience was vital, the less said about Kean Bryan the better. We don't really have any backups at the moment though, it'd be into the U21s.
WBs Bogle // Bogle - the injuries seem to have slowed him slightly. Hopefully the rest will do him good.


Midfield
RCM: Lundstram // Berge - starting with 10 would be an upgrade on the embarrassing performances John Lundstram put in. Berge is a big plus
CM: Norwood // Norwood - Norwood is starting to slow down so the 20/21 version takes this one. Priority position for recruitment
LCM: Fleck // ? - Fleck is out of contract and has regressed so even if he stays he will be worse than the 20/21 version. Another priority position.

Backups: Osborn // ? - Osborn also out of contract and has proven that he is not good enough to be retained

Forwards
SS: McGoldrick // Ndiaye - everyone loves Didzy but Ndiaye is, at our level, generational.
ST: Burke // McBurnie - like him or not, McBurnie is a vast upgrade on Oli The Burke
Backups: McBurnie, Sharp, Mousset & Brewster // Jebbison, Brewster & Osula - McBurnie seems to be sorting himself out and is far more reliable while 20/21 Mousset was a waste of space. Sharp will be missed for his influence if he's released but his race is run as a top flight player. The potential of Jebbison and Osula should offer more than Mousset and Sharp over the course of next season

I make that 20/21 having the better midfield but 22/23 the better defence and forwards. Keeper is a tossup. Squad depth much better in 20/21 but mainly filled with inadequate players - are they better than having noone like we do now?

At a squad level there's some seriously shallow bits (midfield!) but the first team is stronger now than the one which came down. If we get the recruitment right (and that's a big if) then we'll do better than we did in 20/21...although that is not a high bar.
Click to expand...
Generally agree with those points but Ramsdale was better than Wes (had a poor first half of the season but a good second half) and I don't remember a time when Burke was first choice. Surely it was McBurnie? He got injured a couple of times, but he was first choice.
 
Stevens and Fleck must be hanging on for us to offer them more than they'll get anywhere else, to never play. So more than they can justify. Otherwise I don't know why they wouldn't have just announced their own departures
 
robbiez666 said:
Generally agree with those points but Ramsdale was better than Wes (had a poor first half of the season but a good second half) and I don't remember a time when Burke was first choice. Surely it was McBurnie? He got injured a couple of times, but he was first choice.
Click to expand...
Burke, amazingly, started more games than McBurnie. I know a lot of that was down to McBurnie's injuries but I had to draw the line somewhere.

I also completely forgot about Norrington-Davies. My apologies. He probably goes in as first choice LWB next season as we'll prioritise solidity over creativity and he's better than Stevens was in 20/21.
 

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