Kop needs urgent redevelopment

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It’d mean no away fans though.

Don't think you're allowed to ban away, as it would be classed as an unfair advantage to the home team.

The normal PL rule is you need to give away fans 3K tickets or 10% of the capacity, which ever is lower.
However the PL WILL allow a slackening of these rules in special cases and if there is no alternatives.

For example Fulham have a reduced capacity of over 22K this season in the PL, so the PL rules say they must give away clubs 2,200 tickets.
However they are currently giving away fans a reduced allocation of 1.9K tickets.

Basically during building works United would need to allocate a section of the ground to away fans
and then with the Safety Committee insisting on netting to separate home and away areas, we would lose further seats.
Might be better to just let away clubs have the 2,950 seats in the BL lower tier as segregation inside and control outside the ground is much easier.
 

Don't think you're allowed to ban away, as it would be classed as an unfair advantage to the home team.

The normal PL rule is you need to give away fans 3K tickets or 10% of the capacity, which ever is lower.
However the PL WILL allow a slackening of these rules in special cases and if there is no alternatives.

For example Fulham have a reduced capacity of over 22K this season in the PL, so the PL rules say they must give away clubs 2,200 tickets.
However they are currently giving away fans a reduced allocation of 1.9K tickets.

Basically during building works United would need to allocate a section of the ground to away fans
and then with the Safety Committee insisting on netting to separate home and away areas, we would lose further seats.
Might be better to just let away clubs have the 2,950 seats in the BL lower tier as segregation inside and control outside the ground is much easier.
Yeah that’s exactly my point, we’d still be at least 2k short, even if we could split the lower tier.
 
Is it just me that doesn't agree with the comments that 'the kop needs urgent development'?

I take issue with two bits of it

1. Needs. Surely people mean they want it to be redeveloped. They'd like nicer seating, more seating, less restricted views, better toilets, few steps etc? But does it really 'need' redeveloping? Need means there are significant consequences if we don't redevelop it and those consequences outweigh not redeveloping?

2. Urgent. Why? Why does the redevelopment need doing urgently?

More than happy to be slated and fully expect the comments of 'we wouldn't have these standing issues if x was done' and 'how can you say it doesn't need doing when we have tickets off sale because of issues' etc, but then I ask you.....so what? Once people start standing/sitting where their ticket is, we go back to normal....all tickets on sale.

I've been in old/middle-aged/new stadiums, and the kop isn't great, but to be honest I love the old shithole. But that's not my point. I just wonder why it 'needs doing urgently'
Sorting the kop now, would be like paying for a full Louie vuitton make over of a cess pit. The idiots that cause the problems want ousting first.
 
Hopefully we go up, the new owner or the Prince will address the Kop asap, but realistically will be done only if we stay up in the first season. We had a golden chance under Covid but then we were obviously going down!

We managed to do a rebuild in the pre-season last time out, probably that was due to the simplistic nature of the existing Kop, whereas the next one will undoubtedly be more complex partly due to the nature of no pillars which obviously will be more complex but it's not rocket science either. Maybe the best option would be to commence part way through the first season if it looks like we have a chance of staying up, hopefully like the first season last time out but that seems a long shot. I'd be in favour of demolishing the existing and having an entire new stand with a steeper rake and an extra 20 rows or so. A bit like what my favourite German team have: Kaiserslautern.

View attachment 149839
Is the stand really small or is that fella fucking massive?
 
Because it is not up to modern safety standards for a start if it came to it could it be evacuated in a few minutes? I don't think so sit in the middle behind the goal like I do and it can take 10mins to get out whether I go up and over or down and to the sides.
I'll admit now I know fuck all about this topic so apologies if this is an area of expertise for you. This being the interent I'll give my reasons why I think this is wrong anyway :) .

I suspect if it wasn't up to modern safety standard it would have been shut already, like a significant chunk at S6.
The time it takes to empty would shink masively if people could flood onto the pitch instead of shuffling out through the smaller exits.

The kop is a shithole though. However it's a popular shithole at the moment, a bit like a crap pub with cheap but decent beer. The problems it has a poor reach, shit leg room, the pillars affect the view, the food and drink concessions are inadequate and open to the elements and the toilets are poor.

These are mostly comfort factors, but they probably also affect matchday revenue. My guess is that there is no business case to be made until either, people stop buying tickets or the safety rules tighten further and they need to cut capacity.

It's going to be a right fucker of a job to do it properly though. What we need is a billionaire owner who just wants to spend like mad for a laugh.
 
To answer the question, the stand needs replacing urgently due to the current situation the club finds itself in with a reduced capacity that will, in all likelihood, become permanent.

It isn’t really a matter that can be ignored any longer. There are only two options. Redevelopment or moving. I do think the latter is a more likely scenario than many people would believe. Particularly if we get new owners.

As much as it is a heretical statement to make here (and I would only say this here under the cloak of anonymity such is the scale of what I’m about to suggest) but I don’t think moving is such a bad idea long term.

I don’t want us to ever leave the Lane. But it might just make sense.
 
To answer the question, the stand needs replacing urgently due to the current situation the club finds itself in with a reduced capacity that will, in all likelihood, become permanent.

It isn’t really a matter that can be ignored any longer. There are only two options. Redevelopment or moving. I do think the latter is a more likely scenario than many people would believe. Particularly if we get new owners.

As much as it is a heretical statement to make here (and I would only say this here under the cloak of anonymity such is the scale of what I’m about to suggest) but I don’t think moving is such a bad idea long term.

I don’t want us to ever leave the Lane. But it might just make sense.
My initial reaction to your post was................NO.

However, on reflection after giving some thought, it is now
NO.
 
So long as the old duffers on SS can't get on the kop, complaining about youngsters and the price of stamps .
As an old duffer in SS (who for many years stood on the Kop) I have no problem with youngsters except that they never walk quickly enough anywhere !!
Stamps are very expensive though, but only if you need to buy them !
 
As an old duffer in SS (who for many years stood on the Kop) I have no problem with youngsters except that they never walk quickly enough anywhere !!
Stamps are very expensive though, but only if you need to buy them !
Are you one of these notorious pensioner post office robbers?

Edit: I think we need to clarify we are talking about South Stand, not the German outfit.
 
I'll admit now I know fuck all about this topic so apologies if this is an area of expertise for you. This being the interent I'll give my reasons why I think this is wrong anyway :) .

I suspect if it wasn't up to modern safety standard it would have been shut already, like a significant chunk at S6.
The time it takes to empty would shink masively if people could flood onto the pitch instead of shuffling out through the smaller exits.

The kop is a shithole though. However it's a popular shithole at the moment, a bit like a crap pub with cheap but decent beer. The problems it has a poor reach, shit leg room, the pillars affect the view, the food and drink concessions are inadequate and open to the elements and the toilets are poor.

These are mostly comfort factors, but they probably also affect matchday revenue. My guess is that there is no business case to be made until either, people stop buying tickets or the safety rules tighten further and they need to cut capacity.

It's going to be a right fucker of a job to do it properly though. What we need is a billionaire owner who just wants to spend like mad for a laugh.
....and he may be on the way: is that the sound of reindeer bells ?
 
There are only two options. Redevelopment or moving. I do think the latter is a more likely scenario than many people would believe. Particularly if we get new owners. don’t want us to ever leave the Lane. But it might just make sense.

Don't agree.
Every move to a new stadium tends to have a sound business case.
Often the cost to build a new stadium represents much better value for money than renovating the old stadium.

Reasons to stay at Bramall Lane
1: Location
The location of Bramall Lane is currently an asset, easy for large crowds to arrive and dissipate.
Unlike at Hillsboro we have loads of road access so no massive bottlenecks where traffic is stuck in queues for over 1 hour.

2: Access around the stadium
Accept that there's no access for anything at Bramall Lane or John Street
however there's plenty of land behind the Kop and next to the South stand.
This means we can leave both stands open and operational whilst prep work and building work is being done.
Where as at Hillsboro they are hemmed in by houses, so don't have much of a footprint to expand on therir site.

Disadvantages of the current stadium
Many away fans often comment about BL being the best stadium in the Championship, the history and heritage makes it stand out.
However there are 2 areas of concern regards our current stadium.
1: The Kop: Looks OK from inside the stadium but if I was bringing a visitor on a rainy day I'd feel slightly embarrassed that there's a makeshift concourse with no protection against the wind and rain. It was only meant as a temporary solution and for fans is the most important stand for renovating.
2: The South stand: I'm not talking from a fans point of view, its perfectly adequate and much better than Sheff Weds North stand that is antiquated in comparison.
However the media centre, boardroom, changing rooms, executive areas are THE FACE of a club.
The fashion these days is for a club to make these areas top notch in order to impress VIP visitors.

Really believe it's important for an owner to be able to invite his guest to Bramall Lane and feel extra proud of the stadium.
The idea would be the guest would drive down the slope into the underground car park, then catch the lift which leads them directly into the palatial boardroom.

The same idea can be attached to having a posh top class media centre, posh impressive board room, posh/ impressive executive areas, huge impressive changing rooms for the players all inside the revamped expanded South stand. The idea is that these influential people all leave Bramall Lane thinking even by PL standard "that's a really impressive stadium". Sheffielders frown on anything "posh" but in the real world it's pretty important to impress.

So we don't need to move to achieve our aims. Modernising the Kop and South stand would achieve everything we wanted taking the capacity to 41K
and would be much cheaper than building a stadium from scratch. The only downside is organising building work whilst trying to prevent a reduction in capacity.
 
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What's the crack with spending money on stadiums and infrastructure if a club gets a new mega-wealthy owner? Does it impact FFP rules? i.e. can you splash the cash on a new stand and still be allowed to spend money on players? Would seem a bit harsh if things needed upgrading but FFP dictated that you couldn't do it.
 
What's the crack with spending money on stadiums and infrastructure if a club gets a new mega-wealthy owner? Does it impact FFP rules? i.e. can you splash the cash on a new stand and still be allowed to spend money on players? Would seem a bit harsh if things needed upgrading but FFP dictated that you couldn't do it.

Apparently infrastructure expenditure (stadium and training ground) is outside FFP (or Profit and Sustainabilty as it's now called) rules.

Even if we acquire a mega wealthy billionaire it's very unlikely he's going to use us as a vanity project and ignore business practices deliberately wasting money.
He's still going to prefer "good value" and will also take into account the "return on investment".
 
The longer we leave it to update and increase capacity the more likely it is we will move from Bramall Lane all together. There is not a lot you can do with the present site John st and the lane can't be expanded and you wouldn't be able to make the kop much higher due to planning regs. A move away might be inevitable at some point.
 
The longer we leave it to update and increase capacity the more likely it is we will move from Bramall Lane all together. There is not a lot you can do with the present site John st and the lane can't be expanded and you wouldn't be able to make the kop much higher due to planning regs. A move away might be inevitable at some point.
I personally can’t see it happening but then I really didn’t think Everton would ever move from Goodison. I suppose it all depends on the owner a club gets in and what they’re long term plans are.
 
It could happen if we completely turned the ground around and put the KP- where the south stand is but obviously further back, it could be awesome, would take millions , and we would need to move to another ground for about 5 years.
 
If we got a wealthy owner and we needed to do something about the ground then the logical thing to do is sell it and build a new one. Prime land in the centre of a major city. With history that puts the price up. Cost of sorting the Kop properly would be huge. The whole ground is restrictive given the location.

A new stadium means it's all new and purpose built. Redeveloping one or two stands means the rest needs to be done at some stage as well. Then it's out of sync. You can build a much more efficient stadium. Better profits. Lower overheads. Lower policing bills etc.

Those hoping for Man City type owners should be careful what they wish for. If you want to be like Man City then you lose Maine Road
 
It could happen if we completely turned the ground around and put the KP- where the south stand is but obviously further back, it could be awesome, would take millions , and we would need to move to another ground for about 5 years.
Ground share with whome? Don't say it, please don't say it....
 
Ground share with whome? Don't say it, please don't say it....
And there's a problem. The obvious answer is likely the only answer.....Given we don't play at home on the same days, it's the only logical choice.
 
A new stadium is all well and good but, where? There’s nowhere I can think of that’s large enough and centrally located.

The club were apparently struggling to find a site for a new training ground (albeit it would need to be larger).
 
Talk of moving to a new ground is total bollocks and a massive over-reaction to a problem centered around one stand.
 
It could happen if we completely turned the ground around and put the KP- where the south stand is but obviously further back, it could be awesome, would take millions , and we would need to move to another ground for about 5 years.
Millions? Hundreds of Millions would be closer to the mark. Makes absolutely zero economic sense and is totally unnecessary.
Aside from all that…
 
If we got a wealthy owner and we needed to do something about the ground then the logical thing to do is sell it and build a new one. Prime land in the centre of a major city. With history that puts the price up. Cost of sorting the Kop properly would be huge. The whole ground is restrictive given the location.

A new stadium means it's all new and purpose built. Redeveloping one or two stands means the rest needs to be done at some stage as well. Then it's out of sync. You can build a much more efficient stadium. Better profits. Lower overheads. Lower policing bills etc.

Those hoping for Man City type owners should be careful what they wish for. If you want to be like Man City then you lose Maine Road
Man City left Maine Rd long before before the City Group had taken them over
 
In some kind of order, what's important?
Safe
Good view
Good atmosphere
Access to bogs
Access to refreshments.

Do we want or need to spend tens of millions and shut for a season to get those things?
I'd say No.
 

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