email from club - NO MORE TICKETS ON SALE IN KOP - standing & wrong seat usage

[noire]

Manchester United cut capacity for Burnley match because of ambulance strike

Manchester United reduce Old Trafford capacity by 12,000 for next Wednesday's Carabao Cup match with Burnley because of ambulance strike on the same day.

www.bbc.co.uk

Could be worse….

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

Well it's pretty evident to anyone on the KOP the only people who make a near constant noise are those stood at the back mainly on the John Street end. I haven't seen anyone offer any solutions other than "do as we're told and the club might give us some safe standing in 5 years" which to me indicates nobody sees a major problem with everyone just sitting in their seats & business as worse than usual

Aye.
But your conclusion is bollocks as if everyone is “just sitting in their seats” “business” won’t be “worse than usual” as there will then be the ‘additional’ (currently embargoed) seats to flog.

Or are you really suggesting that significant numbers of folk won’t attend because they can’t stand & congregate with their mates in gangways (or someone else’s seat?)

Ultimately, it’s not a binary choice, you could consider: "do as we're told and the club might give us some safe standing in 5 years"AND sing.

What is clear is that choosing not to “do as we’re told”will result in:
No safe standing, which in itself is unlikely for other (financial) reasons
Continuing worsened business - restricted (-1300) ticket sales + you & yours attending chapel
Further / additional sanction - KOP closure ?; financial penalties ?

What’s your solution? Carry on with the (pre Huddersfield) ‘status quo’ ie let you do as you please & fuck the consequences ?

 

[FB98]

Aye.
But your conclusion is bollocks as if everyone is “just sitting in their seats” “business” won’t be “worse than usual” as there will then be the ‘additional’ (currently embargoed) seats to flog.

Or are you really suggesting that significant numbers of folk won’t attend because they can’t stand & congregate with their mates in gangways (or someone else’s seat?)

Ultimately, it’s not a binary choice, you could consider: "do as we're told and the club might give us some safe standing in 5 years"AND sing.

What is clear is that choosing not to “do as we’re told”will result in:
No safe standing, which in itself is unlikely for other (financial) reasons
Continuing worsened business - restricted (-1300) ticket sales + you & yours attending chapel
Further / additional sanction - KOP closure ?; financial penalties ?

What’s your solution? Carry on with the (pre Huddersfield) ‘status quo’ ie let you do as you please & fuck the consequences ?

"Business as worse than usual" ment worst than before the restrictions.

My solution as stated many times would be to stop allowing people to renew their tickets in their current seat & telling people if they don't want to make any noise stop buying seats near the back. Would allow everyone to buy tickets with mates in an area that suits them meaning more space for people to stand up in the seat they bought & improve the atmosphere enormously.
Thats the only solution I've seen other than "just sit in your seat"

 

[Sean Thornton]

"Business as worse than usual" ment worst than before the restrictions.

My solution as stated many times would be to stop allowing people to renew their tickets in their current seat & telling people if they don't want to make any noise stop buying seats near the back. Would allow everyone to buy tickets with mates in an area that suits them meaning more space for people to stand up in the seat they bought & improve the atmosphere enormously.
Thats the only solution I've seen other than "just sit in your seat"

So TELL some fans what to do but not others, sorry but that’s no solution.

And no, l don’t have the answer but l’m not kidding by myself l do.

 

[FB98]

So TELL some fans what to do but not others, sorry but that’s no solution.

And no, l don’t have the answer but l’m not kidding by myself l do.

Why is it telling some & not others? I'd completely stop everyone having their current seat on the KOP & tell people to apply some common sense when picking a new spot.

 

[ShockingBadBuy]

My solution as stated many times would be to stop allowing people to renew their tickets in their current seat & telling people if they don't want to make any noise stop buying seats near the back. Would allow everyone to buy tickets with mates in an area that suits them meaning more space for people to stand up in the seat they bought & improve the atmosphere enormously.

So, a ‘singing section’?

To be achieved by cleansing anyone who fails your arbitrary decibel check (or something), no matter how long they or their mates/family have sat there?

 

[FB98]

So, a ‘singing section’?

To be achieved by cleansing anyone who fails your arbitrary decibel check (or something), no matter how long they or their mates/family have sat there?

"Arbitrary decibel check" is a strange way of quoting "use your common sense to buy as close to the back as suits you". But yes anything like that would improve the atmosphere enormously and anyone pretending otherwise is stupid.

 

[Panini]

Without going through the whole thread and apologies in advance for this but why are we being singled out for this treatment? Sorry if it’s already been mentioned.

We're not being singled out.

Other clubs have been arguably more proactive and prevented their situation from reaching the point where they are ordered to restrict sales. But they still have problems that keep evolving and they keep working on solutions.

Other clubs have been as reactive as us, or less so, and have also been sanctioned. Burnley for example. Southampton too, although their circumstances are more related to disorder. I've tried to find Stand United 's post busting some assumptions but couldn't, sorry. I'm sure the specific details are out there.

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

"Arbitrary decibel check" is a strange way of quoting "use your common sense to buy as close to the back as suits you". But yes anything like that would improve the atmosphere enormously and anyone pretending otherwise is

Why is it telling some & not others? I'd completely stop everyone having their current seat on the KOP & tell people to apply some common sense when picking a new spot.

Aye
cos it’s not stupid to piss off a majority (as you yourself recognise) to accommodate those folk without the wherewithal to sit AND sing simultaneously
Is that the “common sense” that will dictate that the displaced entirety of the KOP all want to sit (stand) in the best (their preferred) seat & be ‘disappointed’ when THEY can’t sit in their desired seat - how many folk will be seeking seats in the ‘wings (hint have a squint at the ‘demographic geography’ on Saturday)

 

[FB98]

Aye
cos it’s not stupid to piss off a majority (as you yourself recognise) to accommodate those folk without the wherewithal to sit AND sing simultaneously
Is that the “common sense” that will dictate that the displaced entirety of the KOP all want to sit (stand) in the best (their preferred) seat & be ‘disappointed’ when THEY can’t sit in their desired seat - how many folk will be seeking seats in the ‘wings (hint have a squint at the ‘demographic geography’ on Saturday)

Improving the atmosphere is the number 1 priority IMO & my solution would unquestionably do that. We are one of the only big clubs without a big standing atmospheric section.

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

Improving the atmosphere is the number 1 priority IMO & my solution would unquestionably do that. We are one of the only big clubs without a big standing atmospheric section.

Aye
Soooo
If yous ‘behave’ yourselves for a couple more matches &the embargo is lifted you’ll (all) be able to congregate & sing together down the front aside the South Stand

Win : win : win
Closer to the action - more decibels projected at pitch / players
Reduced safety risk - only tippling a few yards , not from top to bottom
Easier to monitor / police
Maximised revenue
Non- singing ‘seaters’ comfortable & happy ( in their preferred location)
Yous might even got on TV @ corners (& goal celebrations)
What’s not to like ?

 

[FB98]

Aye
Soooo
If yous ‘behave’ yourselves for a couple more matches &the embargo is lifted you’ll (all) be able to congregate & sing together down the front aside the South Stand

Win : win : win
Closer to the action - more decibels projected at pitch / players
Reduced safety risk - only tippling a few yards , not from top to bottom
Easier to monitor / police
Maximised revenue
Non- singing ‘seaters’ comfortable & happy ( in their preferred location)
Yous might even got on TV @ corners (& goal celebrations)
What’s not to like ?

No point engaging. The idea a shit gangway to the side miles away would get things going like a clearout in the back middle of main stand & the multiplier effect that would have is seriously ridiculous but you already know that.

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

No point engaging. The idea a shit gangway to the side miles away would get things going like a clearout in the back middle of main stand & the multiplier effect that would have is seriously ridiculous but you already know that.

No point at all. New ideas are generally scoffed at, especially singing sections. Look at the aggro Ricky got for it. Displacing some people would probably cause a fuss, I agree. But sometimes we have to adapt.

 

[Champagneblade]

What rule/ because you said so if no one has bought seats because sales are not allowed
.common sense says it must be season ticket holder,
I am a season ticket holder. you implied I am one of the people in the gangway. The same people stand in the aisles/gangway every game.
You could be one of them.

I’m not implying you did anything. The object of my post was that if your only confession is that you stand up and it’s at your own seat, then this isn’t the primary issue being targeted at all.

But you are right to say it could be season ticket holders who are congregating where they shouldn’t or not sitting in their seat. In fact given the percentage of seats on the Kop belonging to season ticket holders, it is more than likely.

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

No point engaging. The idea a shit gangway to the side miles away would get things going like a clearout in the back middle of main stand & the multiplier effect that would have is seriously ridiculous but you already know that.

So, it’s nowt to do with improving the atmosphere it’s about you doing what you want where you want, including shifting others to a “shit gangway”
As Marx said:-

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

 

[FB98]

So, it’s nowt to do with improving the atmosphere it’s about you doing what you want where you want, including shifting others to a “shit gangway”
As Marx said:-

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.

No, the back middle of the KOP is clearly the best place to start an atmosphere rather than Gangway A. We're currently pushed out in G due to no seat availability in the middle "standing sections". This is obvious to literally everyone but improving the atmosphere clearly isn't high on your priority list so you don't care.

 

[Champagneblade]

"Business as worse than usual" ment worst than before the restrictions.

My solution as stated many times would be to stop allowing people to renew their tickets in their current seat & telling people if they don't want to make any noise stop buying seats near the back. Would allow everyone to buy tickets with mates in an area that suits them meaning more space for people to stand up in the seat they bought & improve the atmosphere enormously.
Thats the only solution I've seen other than "just sit in your seat"

Not sure how you’d even do this? I know I’m poking fun, so no offence meant here but can you just imagine the conversation?

“Ticket Office here, Sir. For the coming season, are you planning on singing? or enjoying the view from up high and not singing? If the latter, Sir, I’m afraid we’ll have to move you from the seat you’ve sat in for 10 years. We need to give it to some youth who wouldn’t sit in his allocated seat and helped contribute to parts of the ground being shut. But he’s a singer you see, Sir, and that’s what we need.”

Then I’d assume six months into the season to another ticket holder:

“Hello Sir, this is the Ticket Office. We’re calling about your seat and more specifically what you’ve been doing in it. We see you’ve attended all home games and spent money at half time and this is appreciated. However Sir, and it’s unfortunate there is a ‘But’, but you simply haven’t been singing enough. Yes, we’ve seen you clap occasionally, shout the occasional words of encouragement and cheer when we score but no contribution to “No Pig fans in Town” or even just the “Sheffield United, Sheffield United” one. You are important to us, Sir and we appreciate you’ve been a season ticket holder for 40 years but the young lad three rows further forward, whom we see as a potential singer, well just can’t muster the confidence up when he’s sat a few rows from his mates. Please see it from his side, Sir. We’ve got some excellent restricted view seats however, or we can move you the other side of the ground where we hope it doesn’t trigger your vertigo. Up the Blades, Sir!”

 

[FB98]

Not sure how you’d even do this? I know I’m poking fun, so no offence meant here but can you just imagine the conversation?

“Ticket Office here, Sir. For the coming season, are you planning on singing? or enjoying the view from up high and not singing? If the latter, Sir, I’m afraid we’ll have to move you from the seat you’ve sat in for 10 years. We need to give it to some youth who wouldn’t sit in his allocated seat and helped contribute to parts of the ground being shut. But he’s a singer you see, Sir, and that’s what we need.”

Then I’d assume six months into the season to another ticket holder:

“Hello Sir, this is the Ticket Office. We’re calling about your seat and more specifically what you’ve been doing in it. We see you’ve attended all home games and spent money at half time and this is appreciated. However Sir, and it’s unfortunate there is a ‘But’, but you simply haven’t been singing enough. Yes, we’ve seen you clap occasionally, shout the occasional words of encouragement and cheer when we score but no contribution to “No Pig fans in Town” or even just the “Sheffield United, Sheffield United” one. You are important to us, Sir and we appreciate you’ve been a season ticket holder for 40 years but the young lad three rows further forward, whom we see as a potential singer, well just can’t muster the confidence up when he’s sat a few rows from his mates. Please see it from his side, Sir. We’ve got some excellent restricted view seats however, or we can move you the other side of the ground where we hope it doesn’t trigger your vertigo. Up the Blades, Sir!”

You make it clear to people to at start of the year they should buy their tickets in a place suited to them. I doubt anyone would choose 15 rows from the back if they were 72 years old wanting to sit down in the knowledge that area will now be full of young standers. It would end up policing itself & again you pretty much know this but would rather come up with ridiculous far fetched examples

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

Take Huddersfield in our play off final. They literally designated the area behind the net as a singing section. It was loud, colourful and clearly a lot of fun and most importantly, everyone was on the same page. Get a ticket in that block and its for one reason. I think they won that day as well so I'm going to put it down to that.

Why couldn't we as a club for away games perhaps, do similar? Maybe get 100 tickets or 150 tickets in a block and advertise them as 'singing section' just like Huddersfield did? Test it on away days first. We don't always sell out so there wouldn't be complaints. Nobody has sat there for years so no complaints. And for anyone citing safety reasons or names for people in those seats etc, attach that ticket to the customer number for that reason.

Its just an idea. It could be discussed. Just something that could look like a halfway point between the likes of the poster above and those who disagree.

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

No, the back middle of the KOP is clearly the best place to start an atmosphere rather than Gangway A. We're currently pushed out in G due to no seat availability in the middle "standing sections". This is obvious to literally everyone but improving the atmosphere clearly isn't high on your priority list so you don't care.

Why does the location make any difference ?
Surely if the priority is to sing / enhance atmosphere all the singers will congregate in the same (designated but “shit” area ?) some akin to what they (choose to) do now in none- shit areas but which cause difficulties for other supporters & the club
Or are the acoustics better at the back middle ?
Or are singers more motivated by having the best view
Or are they demoralised by “shit gangways”
Plenty of clubs most vocal & vociferous supporters were / are not located in a traditional’ KOP behind the goal let alone in the (shit) wings

It appears I “care” as much as yourself with your Ill do what I want, where I want approach & fuck everyone else (except fellow singers) approaches & attitudes

 

[FB98]

Why does the location make any difference ?
Surely if the priority is to sing / enhance atmosphere all the singers will congregate in the same (designated but “shit” area ?) some akin to what they (choose to) do now in none- shit areas but which cause difficulties for other supporters & the club
Or are the acoustics better at the back middle ?
Or are singers more motivated by having the best view
Or are they demoralised by “shit gangways”
Plenty of clubs most vocal & vociferous supporters were / are not located in a traditional’ KOP behind the goal let alone in the (shit) wings

It appears I “care” as much as yourself with your Ill do what I want, where I want approach & fuck everyone else (except fellow singers) approaches & attitudes

Because the middle keeps things in sync & gets more people to join in. I regularly read that two sides of the KOP often "cancel each other out". I already am in one of the "shit gangways" due to nowhere else to stand as I've said but this isn't optimal for spreading atmosphere.
If the ambition is to improve atmosphere I don't think anyone can seriously argue my idea wouldn't improve things.
The only arguments against are other things like "pissing off people who've been there for years"

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

Because the middle keeps things in sync & gets more people to join in. I regularly read that two sides of the KOP often "cancel each other out". I already am in one of the "shit gangways" due to nowhere else to stand as I've said but this isn't optimal for spreading atmosphere.
If the ambition is to improve atmosphere I don't think anyone can seriously argue my idea wouldn't improve things.
The only arguments against are other things like "pissing off people who've been there for years"

Aye
you’re right
The pursuit of sonic perfection, albeit coincidentally standing in the ‘best’ viewing location, far outweighs “pissing off [other] people…..” whether that’s because :
they can’t see / sit down
they’re compelled to move away from their chosen location (whether they’ve been there “for years”, months, weeks or days)
they can’t attend (even in ‘’shit’ areas) because of restricted sales
the entire KOP is displaced / can’t attend (including yourself) following closure
the team deteriorates due to reduced funding (lower gate receipts / financial penalties)

But, as it happens, I’ll be alright sat singing in the South Stand so what do I care

 

[FB98]

Aye
you’re right
The pursuit of sonic perfection, albeit coincidentally standing in the ‘best’ viewing location, far outweighs “pissing off [other] people…..” whether that’s because :
they can’t see / sit down
they’re compelled to move away from their chosen location (whether they’ve been there “for years”, months, weeks or days)
they can’t attend (even in ‘’shit’ areas) because of restricted sales
the entire KOP is displaced / can’t attend (including yourself) following closure
the team deteriorates due to reduced funding (lower gate receipts / financial penalties)

But, as it happens, I’ll be alright sat singing in the South Stand so what do I care

Better than any solution to improving the atmosphere I've heard from you or anyone else & if you're on the South you clearly aren't making that much noise lets not kid ourselves

 

[Sean Thornton]

U

Better than any solution to improving the atmosphere I've heard from you or anyone else & if you're on the South you clearly aren't making that much noise lets not kid ourselves

It’s hardly a solution if it causes a different problem. But then again the people it would affect aren’t considered by you. Don’t they matter?

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

Aye
Nobody on the KOP will certainly improve the atmosphere
Perhaps you could come & join me in H block & teach us how to sing - there’ll be no standing mind, the cracking of arthritic knees & hips would drown out any/ all crowd noise

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

Because the middle keeps things in sync & gets more people to join in. I regularly read that two sides of the KOP often "cancel each other out". I already am in one of the "shit gangways" due to nowhere else to stand as I've said but this isn't optimal for spreading atmosphere.
If the ambition is to improve atmosphere I don't think anyone can seriously argue my idea wouldn't improve things.
The only arguments against are other things like "pissing off people who've been there for years"

It's similar to when a pub gets a refurb and Owd Ernest gets kite on because his booth is getting rotated a bit. "I've sat here 75 years man and boy and they're destroying it"

You won't win this argument I'm afraid. You'll be mocked and ridiculed until the cows come home. Any notion towards changing something for the better is slapped down straight away. Like I said, take Ricky as the example. He had an idea, put it forward, had good intentions, made his point, wasn't going to force anyone to move at all as he'd picked out an empty area - ridiculed for it. Too many just happy to carry on regardless. "Yeah the atmosphere has dropped off but what can we do?"
'Heres an idea....'
"oh you want people to move?" etc etc

Like I say, too many are set in their ways. Afraid of change. Afraid of things being a bit different. I'm sure other clubs such as Palace will have had to have people move seats to accommodate their Ultras idea.

 

[FB98]

U


It’s hardly a solution if it causes a different problem. But then again the people it would affect aren’t considered by you. Don’t they matter?

They don't matter as much as improving the truly horrendous atmosphere, no. As Ainsley says plenty of clubs have made these changes

 

[Moan? Nope-I saw Longhorn]

It's similar to when a pub gets a refurb and Owd Ernest gets kite on because his booth is getting rotated a bit. "I've sat here 75 years man and boy and they're destroying it"

You won't win this argument I'm afraid. You'll be mocked and ridiculed until the cows come home. Any notion towards changing something for the better is slapped down straight away. Like I said, take Ricky as the example. He had an idea, put it forward, had good intentions, made his point, wasn't going to force anyone to move at all as he'd picked out an empty area - ridiculed for it. Too many just happy to carry on regardless. "Yeah the atmosphere has dropped off but what can we do?"
'Heres an idea....'
"oh you want people to move?" etc etc

Like I say, too many are set in their ways. Afraid of change. Afraid of things being a bit different. I'm sure other clubs such as Palace will have had to have people move seats to accommodate their Ultras idea.

Aye
So he suggested summat that didn’t inconvenience anyone & folk didn’t follow it up - perhaps because they’re happy / comfortable in their ways & seat
Maybe the failing was not compelling ‘singers’ to follow his idea.

 

[Sean Thornton]

They don't matter as much as improving the truly horrendous atmosphere, no. As Ainsley says plenty of clubs have made these changes

Nice attitude to possibly long term fans who, sitting where they do, have more than likely been involved in creating a far better atmosphere than you ever have. Because it’s nowhere near as good as when the Kop first became all seater.

He actually says he’s “sure” not that anyone has. Do you have the details of which clubs have taken your proposed plan of action?

 

[FB98]

Nice attitude to possibly long term fans who, sitting where they do, have more than likely been involved in creating a far better atmosphere than you ever have. Because it’s nowhere near as good as when the Kop first became all seater.

He actually says he’s “sure” not that anyone has. Do you have the details of which clubs have taken your proposed plan of action?

Maybe they were... they definitely haven't contributed for the last 10 years though. You don't seem to see that as a problem.

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

One example here. Rangers Union Bears claimed a new section 15 years ago (they had a huge tifo celebrating it last week). Hull constantly change their standing section as the away end moves every few years.

I don't think most clubs officially do anything like I've suggested but what I do know is somehow almost every other club manages to find a huge standing section for their home fans, usually in an area that makes sense. Boro, Derby, Liverpool, Wolves, Cardiff, Hull, Spurs, Norwich, Ipswich, Leeds (both ends), Man United (both ends), Blackpool Some examples that quickly spring to mind. These areas didn't always stand up and I'm sure when that change happened it pissed alot of people off. Improved the atmosphere though.

What I find amazing is some peoples don't seem to see a serious problem that needs addressing with our atmosphere as it is.