SUFC Women - worth a watch?

[CrookesBlade]

so Sheffield united women are looking for a new manager

Wonder what’s happened here. Seems quite a terse statement.

 

[BushBlade]

Wonder what’s happened here. Seems quite a terse statement.

This is part of the full statement

Sheffield United Women's head coach, Neil Redfearn, has tended his resignation with immediate effect.

He had been in charge for over two years and his final game was the Barclay's Women's Championship fixture against London City Lionesses in front of record league crowd at Bramall Lane last Sunday.

United's chairman, Yusuf Giansiracusa, commented: "On behalf of the board, I'd like to thank Neil for his hard work in his time as a Blade. The efforts and progress of the women's team in the last two years hasn't gone unnoticed. Neil has played a major role in developing the women's team and is a respected coach and figure within football. We wish Neil best wishes for his future endeavours."

Zoe Johnson, head of women's football at United, added: "We were hoping for an upturn in form and confidence as we kick off our Continental Cup this weekend and are disappointed that Neil has decided to step down. He has been a fantastic leader at both Bramall Lane and Shirecliffe, the club has made progress in his time as head coach and it has been a pleasure to work alongside him."

Redfearn commented: "I would like to thank everyone connected with Sheffield United for their support during my time as manager of the women's team. I am proud of the players and staff, who have performed exceptionally well in an increasingly full-time league with a win percentage of 44% across all competitions, and I wish them all the very best in their future careers. It has been a real pleasure to witness and support the development of everyone we have worked with over the past couple of years and I am proud of those who continue to make progress as players and as individuals.

Click on this for the rest of it

Club statement: Neil Redfearn

Sheffield United Women's head coach, Neil Redfearn, has tended his resignation with immediate effect.

www.sufc.co.uk

 

[sheff_blade90]

my guess would be that its performance related. as im looking at teams record. it is poor they had a good start 2 wins from 1st 3. but since they dropped to 10th, just 7pts from 8 games & last win was Coventry 2 months ago & that was v bottom of the league whove played 9 & lost all 9

 

[Ned the Donkey]

• The Premier League teams should share their wealth with the lower league teams.
• The men's teams should not share their wealth with the women's teams.

I'm going to have to think about this for a while...

Irregardless of that, I hope the women's game does take off - it'd be great to see a decent standard of women's football played by a Blades team at BDTBL.

 

[Sheffsteel]

The womens game is the next big investment in the beautiful game if a sky deal was to amount to the same as the mens game then you have potentially 2 clubs getting 2 x £100+ million for being in the Premier Leagues.

That can’t happen unless there’s a massive commercial value in the womens game. Sky aren’t a charity and will only invest if there’s money to be made. The BBC (the tax payer) might invest as they are more political and don’t apply the same commercial values.

I’m watching the woman's game as a social experiment. Can massive promotion/ advertising of a sport create a new commercial market that wasn’t there before and how long will it take to acquire genuine mainstream support with people willing to part with their money?

England have just won the European Championship and womens football has never been so popular in this country.
Here is a list of the current average attendances in the womens top flight compared to the current average in the mens league

23,799 Arsenal 60,135
12,492 Chelsea 39,901
8,912 Liverpool 53,271
5,729 Man Utd 74,133
3,685 Aston Villa 41,681
3,585 Brighton 31,425
3,428 Man City 53,152
3,295 Leicester 31,630
2,152 Reading 13,060
1,997 Tottenham 61,644
1,381 Everton 39,208
1,286 West Ham 62,499

Also bear in mind that there are far less home games (11) in the womens games compared to 19 in the mens PL. Prices are also far cheaper.
For example Arsenal charge £8 adult and £4 for kids whereas Spurs charge £7 for adults and £3.50 for kids
but both clubs charge over 5 times more averaging £45 for the mens team.

These figures highlight the economical differences with a 20 or 30 fold increase in match day turnover for the mens game.
People can make decisions based on fairness, inclusivity and diversity but at the end of the day economics (making a profit) tend to win out.

Also I’m not convinced that there is a genuine desire to increase the profile of the womens game or if it’s just paying lip service.
The people with the power making decisions about the womens game are the men, so these men will surely ensure the womens game
remains a niche sport and never grows to become a serious competitor to the mens game.

 

[Newbury Blade]

Why should the men subsidise the women's team they should stand on their own two feet they always want equality.

The FA didn’t even allow them to play for 50 years FFS.

 

[Newbury Blade]

Some of the remarks from men in this thread are an embarrassment. It’s 2022 FFS. The arguments are akin to those which didn’t allow women to run marathons, or become jockeys. This is not Iran or Saudi Arabia.

 

[Uncle mick]

The FA didn’t even allow them to play for 50 years FFS.

I have no problem women playing football it's not for me but each to there own.
What I'm against is subsidising a non profit arm of a buisness

 

[Swinton Blade]

• The Premier League teams should share their wealth with the lower league teams.
• The men's teams should not share their wealth with the women's teams.

I'm going to have to think about this for a while...

Irregardless of that, I hope the women's game does take off - it'd be great to see a decent standard of women's football played by a Blades team at BDTBL.

The lower league games are far more entertaining and competitive than the womans football.

 

[CrookesBlade]

I have no problem women playing football it's not for me but each to there own.
What I'm against is subsidising a non profit arm of a buisness

By that logic the whole club should fold.

 

[Uncle mick]

By that logic the whole club should fold.

Please explain your thinking remember assets such as sander illi make the men's team viable

 

[Snowflake]

I have no problem women playing football it's not for me but each to there own.
What I'm against is subsidising a non profit arm of a buisness

Most of men’s professional football is non-profit, but it continues to be massively subsidised.

 

[CrookesBlade]

Some of the remarks from men in this thread are an embarrassment. It’s 2022 FFS. The arguments are akin to those which didn’t allow women to run marathons, or become jockeys. This is not Iran or Saudi Arabia.

Gets very tedious reading the same old stuff every time the women’s team/women’s game comes up as a topic.

“When do tickets go on sale for the next game?”

“I find women’s football boring and have no interest in it, it’s wokeness gone mad ”

 

[CrookesBlade]

Please explain your thinking remember assets such as sander illi make the men's team viable

The club was loss making for years outside the Premier League and will be again if we don’t get promoted in the next couple of years (Berge and Ndiaye money will get burned through pretty quickly) unless fans are happy with the League One/Two football whilst balancing the books (just look across the city).

If we do get promoted we can turn a profit but to compete eventually you need a benefactor richer than god willing to plough money in for no financial return.

Women’s football is getting a leg up at the moment in terms of investment but surely that’s how things get better?

 

[robbiez666]

There needs to be more promotion and relegation. 2-up, 2- down.

The only way teams will progress without a rich owner taking it seriously is to get to the WSL. The fact it's just one club means whoever comes down is going to have a good chance of going back up.

I'm happy to subsidise the women's team. Look how much the game has moved on in such a short space of time. Look how many girls play football at school. We have a big support base. We need to take it seriously though. We need to be able to attract the best part-time players while building a team which can get promoted. If we carry on as we are, we'll end up getting relegated eventually. There are a number of bigger clubs with teams in the leagues below. They'll eventually, you'd assume, take them seriously and push upwards.

I know a fair few people who aren't Blades who have season tickets for the women's team. We have two universities here. It's a fast growing sport. We need to encourage it. Promote it. It will benefit both teams in the long run.

Whether we keep playing at the Lane though is another question. If we took building a new training pitch somewhere seriously maybe we could double that up into a mini stadium? 2k capacity. Play the odd game at the Lane but it's not great having empty stadiums.

 

[Overthehills]

This will be an interesting period for the women’s team. Not only are they losing Redfearn, but Zoe Johnson who is in temporary charge for todays game….she has just accepted the head of women and girls football role at BHA.

It seems we are at somewhat at a crossroads at the minute. We need to source experience from elsewhere if we are to continue to the women’s team, otherwise there is a huge risk of going backwards and undoing all of the hard work of the last few years. This being both a new manager and new technical directors.

 

[BushBlade]

There needs to be more promotion and relegation. 2-up, 2- down.

The only way teams will progress without a rich owner taking it seriously is to get to the WSL. The fact it's just one club means whoever comes down is going to have a good chance of going back up.

I'm happy to subsidise the women's team. Look how much the game has moved on in such a short space of time. Look how many girls play football at school. We have a big support base. We need to take it seriously though. We need to be able to attract the best part-time players while building a team which can get promoted. If we carry on as we are, we'll end up getting relegated eventually. There are a number of bigger clubs with teams in the leagues below. They'll eventually, you'd assume, take them seriously and push upwards.

I know a fair few people who aren't Blades who have season tickets for the women's team. We have two universities here. It's a fast growing sport. We need to encourage it. Promote it. It will benefit both teams in the long run.

Whether we keep playing at the Lane though is another question. If we took building a new training pitch somewhere seriously maybe we could double that up into a mini stadium? 2k capacity. Play the odd game at the Lane but it's not great having empty stadiums.

Whilst I accept football doesn’t exist in a vacuum, there’s an argument that historically we’ve failed to recognise threats and opportunities.

The introduction of Div 3 north and south. We didn’t seem to appreciate that these clubs would grow and develop and become competitors in the top divisions, pushing us down the pecking order.

The abolition of the maximum wage. We didn’t seem to understand how that would lead to more cheque book clubs and how we needed to raise our income. It took years before we turned BL into a proper football ground and we seemed to think winning trophies was optional. Other clubs saw that winning increased their attendances, their fledgling marketing attempts (souvenirs etc) and thus their income, which they spent on better players to sustain their success and increase their income further.

The advent of televised football and the growth of the armchair supporter, that lead to the clubs that were successful at that time, Liverpool, Man U etc to extend their fan base to become nationally supported, by fans who rarely saw them live but watched them on TV and bought the scarfs, rosettes, etc and encouraged TV companies to pay more for the TV rights.

And, of course, the introduction of the PL, where our failure to maintain a place in it for more than two seasons at a time has cost us more than £1bn.

As you say, there is a lot of potential for women’s football to increase the fan base of the clubs who are successfully involved in it. Let’s not miss out on another opportunity because some people don’t understand the point of long term investment and just see it as a cost, a loss.

 

[robbiez666]

Whilst I accept football doesn’t exist in a vacuum, there’s an argument that historically we’ve failed to recognise threats and opportunities.

The introduction of Div 3 north and south. We didn’t seem to appreciate that these clubs would grow and develop and become competitors in the top divisions, pushing us down the pecking order.

The abolition of the maximum wage. We didn’t seem to understand how that would lead to more cheque book clubs and how we needed to raise our income. It took years before we turned BL into a proper football ground and we seemed to think winning trophies was optional. Other clubs saw that winning increased their attendances, their fledgling marketing attempts (souvenirs etc) and thus their income, which they spent on better players to sustain their success and increase their income further.

The advent of televised football and the growth of the armchair supporter, that lead to the clubs that were successful at that time, Liverpool, Man U etc to extend their fan base to become nationally supported, by fans who rarely saw them live but watched them on TV and bought the scarfs, rosettes, etc and encouraged TV companies to pay more for the TV rights.

And, of course, the introduction of the PL, where our failure to maintain a place in it for more than two seasons at a time has cost us more than £1bn.

As you say, there is a lot of potential for women’s football to increase the fan base of the clubs who are successfully involved in it. Let’s not miss out on another opportunity because some people don’t understand the point of long term investment and just see it as a cost, a loss.

I think the real danger is that EPL teams with women teams in the Championship or Division 1 (Southampton, Palace, Wolves, Forest) and the Championship teams like WBA with more money than us will decide to spend money on it. We've gone backwards since the Championship began (2,4, 7 and currently 10th). If we don't get to the WSL sooner rather than later I fear we will find ourselves miles away. We currently rely on two players. When they go, we can only hope that Coventry are still terrible or we'll be looking at a relegation scrap.

 

[JohnDenver]

I think the real danger is that EPL teams with women teams in the Championship or Division 1 (Southampton, Palace, Wolves, Forest) and the Championship teams like WBA with more money than us will decide to spend money on it. We've gone backwards since the Championship began (2,4, 7 and currently 10th). If we don't get to the WSL sooner rather than later I fear we will find ourselves miles away. We currently rely on two players. When they go, we can only hope that Coventry are still terrible or we'll be looking at a relegation scrap.

We’ve only gone backwards in the sense that others have progressed faster with greater finance. We’ve had Man U and Liverpool to compete with in recent seasons, which is just about impossible.

In the parallel universe in which the men’s team hadn’t been relegated I think we’d be in the WSL now with a full time team.
I don’t have the slightest idea what it costs to go full time, but I’d be staggered if it happens before the men get promotion or a benefactor arrives.

 

[robbiez666]

We’ve only gone backwards in the sense that others have progressed faster with greater finance. We’ve had Man U and Liverpool to compete with in recent seasons, which is just about impossible.

In the parallel universe in which the men’s team hadn’t been relegated I think we’d be in the WSL now with a full time team.
I don’t have the slightest idea what it costs to go full time, but I’d be staggered if it happens before the men get promotion or a benefactor arrives.

I would assume you'd be looking at least a million commitment every season, but you'd have the pick of the players in the leagues below the WSL. Transfer fees are low or rare so it's about wages for squad and coaches.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Wasn't sure whether to add this report to this thread or start a separate one.
It's womens international football related but indirectly could effect the mens and womens game as a whole.

Scottish international women's team are set to take legal action against the Scottish FA based on sexual discrimination.
Ideally this is a no brainer there should never be discrimination, however, if mens football brings in 100 times more revenue that the womens game
then normally there's a logic that mens pay reward should be 100 times higher than women's pay.

The link below is an interesting case regards the large gap in men and womens pay.

The Scottish international women are calling for the same appearance money as men.
Apparently this is the situation in the US who recently won their court case against the US Soccer federation
and I also believe that recently England have applied the same arrangement, its now the same appearance money for men and women.

However the Scottish FA are sticking to their economical decision making, instead of woke idealistic decision making.

They argue that they don't pay an appearance fee to men or women.
It's more of a goodwill payment to cover players time and expenses and is based on a % of their wage.
So the Scottish FA say they DO treat the men and women international players equally and give them the same % payment.
They also say they offer both the men and women massive incentive bonuses for qualifying for a tournament, again based on a % of income that tournament brings in.
So the mens incentives are naturally much higher than the women's incentives, but the % is the same.

The issue is the the men are paid much higher in their day jobs at their clubs, so obviously receive much higher payments.
Also the mens Euro and WC tournaments bring in 100 times more revenue than the womens tournaments, so incentive payments are higher for the men.

The worrying aspect of the report is that the Scottish players have spread the argument to the whole game
and infer that all money coming into football should be shared out evenly between the mens and women's game.
They also says this is more about respect than money. Can understand that when you're in a minority sport that you want to grow.

My view is, I do have sympathy with the Scottish women.
Wouldn't surprise me if some are paid a really low wage at their football clubs, so the fee they receive at international level must be a pittance.
However the counter argument would be that playing for your country was more about the honour and not about the payment received.

Also as predicted by some on this thread, sooner are later there will be a clash between idealistic woke politics and cold economics.

My concern is that maybe 1 day we'll see the Sheff Utd women's team taking legal action against SUFC
based on sex discrimination due to what they perceive as a lack of funding and lack of respect.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64004005

 

[Champagneblade]

I don't think what you get for your club should be relevant.

The appearance fee should be fixed.

It's like when someone asks you at job interview what your last salary was. I also like to know this as interviewer. But it's so that you are clear the offer you make will be fair. Ideally the question should be what is the value to this company of the job I will perform - pay that.

In this case (Scottish FA) it's used as a support to pay them a low amount because they get paid a low amount for their club.

On the overall debate, it is true the men's game earns far more. But if your aim is to grow the women's game in this country then there has to be an incentive.

The appearance fee is £2,000 per game.

Someone like Sterling gets paid 300,000 per week.

Unsurprisingly, the men just pool this together and give it to charity.

For the women who earn far less, they probably would welcome the money. In which case, given the amount we are talking about, it would be better to pay the women the £2,000 too. It would do more good in contrast to saving a few hundred quid.

 

[robbiez666]

I see we have a whole 8 points and only not getting relegated because Coventry have 3. Has the club given up on its women?

 

[More Bladier than thou]

I see we have a whole 8 points and only not getting relegated because Coventry have 3. Has the club given up on its women?

Hopefully. The quality is dreadful, theres no atmosphere whatsoever, they bring hardly any money and factor in the wear to the pitch, sorry girls.

 

[robbiez666]

Hopefully. The quality is dreadful, theres no atmosphere whatsoever, they bring hardly any money and factor in the wear to the pitch, sorry girls.

I genuinely think playing games in a huge stadium with hardly any fans is detrimental. Surely playing at Hallam or Chesterfield is much better?

 

[Berkshire Blade]

I genuinely think playing games in a huge stadium with hardly any fans is detrimental. Surely playing at Hallam or Chesterfield is much better?

Maybe if the Prince goes they could use that Stadium McCabe owns? Much smaller and in Sheffield rather than chesterfield or too big

 

[robbiez666]

Another opportunity squandered by the club. I know a few non-Blades who got season tickets after the world cup and I suspect none of them will next season after the team has been left to rot.

 

[Weasel]

Things may change for the better once we get a new owner in. Prince has seemingly never been bothered about the SUFC women's team and looked at it as a commercial venture only rather than any community aspect / benefits that it presented. Hopefully if we go up to the PL and we get funds in from a new owner, the club will recognise the opportunity it represents and help the women's team. A move to a smaller sized stadium would help them. There was talk once of a purpose built small stadium bring built for the ladies in don valley but that seems to have disappeared following Prince winning the court case and relegation from the PL.

Unfortunately for the ladies they are behind the men in the food chain for SUFC and if the mens side are struggling to pay the bills then it means there is bugger all left in resources for the women's team. Hopefully that will change next season and budgets increase and bills are paid on time. Let's start by getting embargos shifted though I see that's still in place... The Prince needs to go as he's lost interest in the club.

 

[JohnDenver]

Random question, reflecting my lack of knowledge… How do players change clubs at our level? I genuinely have no clue about the contractual situation of part time players, or how transfers are carried out, or how compensation might come into it.

Minded to ask because from what I’ve seen in recent games, we must have a genuinely sought after talent in Mia Enderby.

 

[Nesh Blade]

Random question, reflecting my lack of knowledge… How do players change clubs at our level? I genuinely have no clue about the contractual situation of part time players, or how transfers are carried out, or how compensation might come into it.

Minded to ask because from what I’ve seen in recent games, we must have a genuinely sought after talent in Mia Enderby.

Few bits and bobs in this piece: https://shekicks.net/she-kicks-investigates-how-are-player-contracts-in-womens-football-changing/

Generally reporting on the women’s championship is pretty shit, so hard to know what kind of contracts our players are on. Chelsea signed one of our brightest prospects Lucy Watson, who had been called up for England age groups, last summer and then put her out on loan. From the article above, suggestion seems to be that money doesn’t change hands unless the player is in contract. Even for players under contract, the sums are absolutely tiny

Last game of last season we ended up sat in front of the Crystal Palace subs who were all chatting about how they were going to be unemployed once the match ended because of the way their contracts worked.