email from club - NO MORE TICKETS ON SALE IN KOP - standing & wrong seat usage

[alcoblade]

The last half hour against Norwich was as noisy and lively as it ever was 50 years ago.

Aye, throw in terrible refereeing contraversy, annoying opposition, a two goal comeback, decent away following, a top of the table clash etc. - it can still be good.

But nobody can seriously deny that for the vast majority of the time, it's really not what it once was.

There's life in the old dog yet, hence some people still caring about administering CPR. But many appear to be happy to let the patient die.

 

[Stand United]

Very interesting particularly the point about specific types of rail seating not impacting on capacity. The big miss from your article is what are the potential costs of installation for say a section of 8 rows at the back of the Kop. How long will it take to install? Perhaps providing examples of costs at other grounds would be useful to support your campaign and if you are in consultation with rail providers are they willing to provide a guesstimate relevant to SUFC?

We have a rough idea of what the per-seat cost would be based on dialogue with manufacturers, and what’s in the public domain, but the overall costs to install aren’t just to pay for the rail seating alone – the SGSA’s licensing requirements require CCTV pinned to the standing area for example, which has meant clubs have had to upgrade what they have. On a seats alone basis, the type of rail seat appropriate for the Kop would need to be the Shrewsbury/Celtic/QPR type. For Celtic it was around £500k for just under 3k rail seats. Shrewsbury crowdfunded £65,000 for their 550 seats a year later, which is lower per seat. Those are the publicly available amounts – we don’t yet know the cost of the QPR installation. The cheap route of sticking an independent barrier next to the existing seating (as the majority have done) isn’t an option because of the limitations on space. For the QPR installation, they had to get their order in around 5 months ahead of installation – and supply issues meant it couldn’t be completed until the season had started.

As mentioned before, we’ve had some initial conversations with the club on this. This situation isn’t something that would be completely fixed overnight with safe standing though, because as the club statement said persistent standing isn’t the only issue that has led to the authorities getting more involved.

 

[Harry's Game]

Where will they house the s/t holders who will be forced to move? It won't be easy to move 2-300 'standers', many of whom have seats next to their mates.

I suspect that’s the real reason they have stopped selling tickets on the Kop. They will be looking to offer them seats there or around the stadium that are not currently held by season ticket holders. If they dont want this alternative area then the club will have to offer refunds

 

[Harry's Game]

Ricky's singing section could finally become a reality then!

 

[Sean Thornton]

View attachment 146638

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

You can't attack globalism anymore as it apparently means you are anti-Semitic. I fucking despise the left with every fibre of my being!!

I like you.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

...........A less passionate fan base.

You've drawn the conclusion that that makes them second class supporters. For me, it makes them different, but not second class.

But of course if your aim is to create a noisy atmosphere that actually helps the team as you suggested above, on that measure alone there's no other conclusion than it is just not as good

There's zero doubt that the support is less passionate than it once was. That's throughout football, more at some clubs than others.

I don’t quite get the distinction between ‘different, but not second class’ and ‘just not as good’ (assuming that you want a noisy atmosphere)

 

[alcoblade]

I don’t quite get the distinction between ‘different, but not second class’ and ‘just not as good’ (assuming that you want a noisy atmosphere)

Only you can answer that. You defined second class, not me.

If you want me to explain how someone who doesn't want to sing at the match isn't as good at creating an atmosphere as someone who does, I really can't help you.

 

[Digs blade]

We have a rough idea of what the per-seat cost would be based on dialogue with manufacturers, and what’s in the public domain, but the overall costs to install aren’t just to pay for the rail seating alone – the SGSA’s licensing requirements require CCTV pinned to the standing area for example, which has meant clubs have had to upgrade what they have. On a seats alone basis, the type of rail seat appropriate for the Kop would need to be the Shrewsbury/Celtic/QPR type. For Celtic it was around £500k for just under 3k rail seats. Shrewsbury crowdfunded £65,000 for their 550 seats a year later, which is lower per seat. Those are the publicly available amounts – we don’t yet know the cost of the QPR installation. The cheap route of sticking an independent barrier next to the existing seating (as the majority have done) isn’t an option because of the limitations on space. For the QPR installation, they had to get their order in around 5 months ahead of installation – and supply issues meant it couldn’t be completed until the season had started.

As mentioned before, we’ve had some initial conversations with the club on this. This situation isn’t something that would be completely fixed overnight with safe standing though, because as the club statement said persistent standing isn’t the only issue that has led to the authorities getting more involved.

When did our beautiful game get so complicated

 

[FB98]

This works both ways. I am all for a loud and even intimidating atmosphere, and do believe it can make a difference. But I don’t see why those that do not wish to make noise should be dismissed as second-rate, not least because in many cases they may be be newcomers to the Lane or newcomers to football, and end up being regulars. And some people enjoy watching and analysing the football, believe it or not. It is not in the terms and conditions that you can’t sing; nor that you must sing. We should all be able to respect that.

If people don't want to contribute to the atmosphere that's absolutely fine. I just wish they'd stop sitting at the back of the KOP demanding others sit down without joining in. These people generally enjoy someone else creating an atmosphere but have no intention of helping & actually contribute to ruining it. It's those people I can't respect.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Only you can answer that. You defined second class, not me.

If you want me to explain how someone who doesn't want to sing at the match isn't as good at creating an atmosphere as someone who does, I really can't help you.

I am pleased that you regard all fans as equally important, as some appear to have been suggesting that those sitting in their seats and not singing should move away from where their season-ticket seats are.
Singing is only one part of creating an atmosphere. In the 50s and 60s, great noise was provide by rattles, cheering, chanting, booing, but singing was virtually non-existent, except for Cup matches, when Ilkla Moor was the anthem of choice (bizarrely, as it has nothing to do with South Yorkshire). And it was at its very best when away supporters (as we were then called) were scattered around the ground; the early 60s victories at Everton and Newcastle were to the accompaniment of groups of Unitedites in all parts of the stadiums, and I can still feel the hairs on the back of my neck standing up with excitement at the sound of it. But they were impressive because they were so different to league games.

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

Notwithstanding this whole sit down/stand up argument, is there anyone here over 6 foot tall who can sit in the kop seats COMFORTABLY for 90 minutes without the squidgy part of their kneecaps not being fucked at full time? It's why I don't sit down. If someone view is partially blocked for 90 minutes it's small price to pay for me hobbling about for life.

 

[Digs blade]

Notwithstanding this whole sit down/stand up argument, is there anyone here over 6 foot tall who can sit in the kop seats COMFORTABLY for 90 minutes without the squidgy part of their kneecaps not being fucked at full time? It's why I don't sit down. If someone view is partially blocked for 90 minutes it's small price to pay for me hobbling about for life.

No I find it impossible

 

[Addison]

We have a rough idea of what the per-seat cost would be based on dialogue with manufacturers, and what’s in the public domain, but the overall costs to install aren’t just to pay for the rail seating alone – the SGSA’s licensing requirements require CCTV pinned to the standing area for example, which has meant clubs have had to upgrade what they have. On a seats alone basis, the type of rail seat appropriate for the Kop would need to be the Shrewsbury/Celtic/QPR type. For Celtic it was around £500k for just under 3k rail seats. Shrewsbury crowdfunded £65,000 for their 550 seats a year later, which is lower per seat. Those are the publicly available amounts – we don’t yet know the cost of the QPR installation. The cheap route of sticking an independent barrier next to the existing seating (as the majority have done) isn’t an option because of the limitations on space. For the QPR installation, they had to get their order in around 5 months ahead of installation – and supply issues meant it couldn’t be completed until the season had started.

As mentioned before, we’ve had some initial conversations with the club on this. This situation isn’t something that would be completely fixed overnight with safe standing though, because as the club statement said persistent standing isn’t the only issue that has led to the authorities getting more involved.

Thanks for the information. So in essence an estimated cost of £500k to install for the back of the Kop with potentially another cost on top for CCTV, say £600K in total as a first guesstimate. Money we don't have at the moment. Yet if the Kop is closed to match day tickets for the next 10 games then a similar figure will accrue for lost revenue if you assume we lose 2,000 tickets per game.

The other issues you refer to, overcrowding and not standing in designated seats, can be solved by better policing imo. If the Club were to state they were considering safe standing options that may go some way to diffusing the tensions that currently exist amongst the pro standing lobby. Obviously there needs to be a willingness at the Club to pursue this.

If you are correct in your observation that SAG are taking a more aggressive stance on persistent standing because of the green light given by the authorities to allow rail seats then it would be foolish of SUFC not to actively look into it. The alternative is, as others have said, a section of the Kop closed for an indefinite period with a considerable loss of revenue. Not withstanding the impact on those supporters who currently sit there and the fall out in the relationship between Club and the fan base.

I don't buy into the carrot and stick approach that you can't have rail seats because you're currently breaching the safety regulations. Using a sledgehammer to crack a nut never worked. There is a growing problem that is unlikely to go away. Its impact on Club revenue could eventually cost SUFC more financially in the long term than the cost of installation it would seem if it is not addressed. That assumes your assertion that there would be no impact on capacity is valid.

Setting up a working party that includes the likes of yourselves would be a green light to those safety organisations agitating against the Club that innovative long term solutions are being considered as an alternative to short term penal fixes.

Good luck in your endeavours.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Notwithstanding this whole sit down/stand up argument, is there anyone here over 6 foot tall who can sit in the kop seats COMFORTABLY for 90 minutes without the squidgy part of their kneecaps not being fucked at full time? It's why I don't sit down. If someone view is partially blocked for 90 minutes it's small price to pay for me hobbling about for life.

I am 6 foot tall, and don’t have a problem. Perhaps you need to consider moving elsewhere

 

[LJBlade]

Just received same email

No other council would even threaten to take it this far

This is completely pathetic

As if any serious overcrowding or safety issues have ever arisen from this. The scared pathetic bastards want to pretend another Hillsborough is possible. Anything to make them feel relevant

Give it a few years and everyone on the kop will sit down

Maybe time for another attempt at a singing section Ricky?

 

[Tom Bott]

Notwithstanding this whole sit down/stand up argument, is there anyone here over 6 foot tall who can sit in the kop seats COMFORTABLY for 90 minutes without the squidgy part of their kneecaps not being fucked at full time? It's why I don't sit down. If someone view is partially blocked for 90 minutes it's small price to pay for me hobbling about for life.

I'm 6'2" and it only works for me by taking the knee, well one of them, into the gangway.

The old Wembley was worse.

 

[Klaatu Barada Nikto]

I'm 6'2" and it only works for me by taking the knee, well one of them, into the gangway.

The old Wembley was worse.

You took the knee on the Kop? Surprised you're still alive

 

[Sheffsteel]

is there anyone here over 6 foot tall who can af someone view is partially blocked for 90 minutes it's small price to pay for me hobbling about for life.

I'm just over 6 foot and I can just about cope sitting near the front of the Kop just behind the goal.

You need to lodge your knees in the far left and far right hand side of the seat in front.
However there's only room for 1 knee, so you're hoping there's 2 short arses sat on either side of you.n
It reminds me of sitting in the middle seat of a Ryanair flight, you're just dreading having some 20 stone brutes sat either side of you.

At the match you're hoping for regular corners or goal mouth chances, so it gives you a chance to stand up and stretch your legs every 5 to 10 minute.
That's why it's important we kick towards the Kop 2nd half, more chances to stand up (for some relief) when your legs are more likely to be uncomfortable.

 

[Bladesman]

 

[Working Class Hero]

I'm just over 6 foot and I can just about cope sitting near the front of the Kop just behind the goal.

You need to lodge your knees in the far left and far right hand side of the seat in front.
However there's only room for 1 knee, so you're hoping there's 2 short arses sat on either side of you.n
It reminds me of sitting in the middle seat of a Ryanair flight, you're just dreading having some 20 stone brutes sat either side of you.

At the match you're hoping for regular corners or goal mouth chances, so it gives you a chance to stand up and stretch your legs every 5 to 10 minute.
That's why it's important we kick towards the Kop 2nd half, more chances to stand up (for some relief) when your legs are more likely to be uncomfortable.

You could always just go and stand at the back with me, mate.

 

[cahill]

But without the licence granted by the Council, we can't hold football matches.

Would be interesting to test that

 

[FriethBlade]

Democratic society....Next council elections you know what to do

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Notwithstanding this whole sit down/stand up argument, is there anyone here over 6 foot tall who can sit in the kop seats COMFORTABLY for 90 minutes without the squidgy part of their kneecaps not being fucked at full time? It's why I don't sit down. If someone view is partially blocked for 90 minutes it's small price to pay for me hobbling about for life.

or if the person in front leans back in their seat and their head is vertually between your thighs and you could gently go thru their hair with a nit comb if you had one.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

Democratic society....Next council elections you know what to do

 

[Bladesman]

View attachment 146759

Lets not go mad.

 

[jt64]

Democratic society....Next council elections you know what to do

And most here will vote Labour because their dad did

 

[WhiteHawk]

And as i have said, many times, these lads only do this because there isn't enough spaces for them to buy tickets in standing areas.
The cause of this is people buying tickets 8 rows from the back and asking those infront to sit down.
The 7 rows behind will be congested until this expands.
I agree with you on what the issue is. We disagree on the cause of the problem. IMO the problem exists because disabled people choose to sit 8 rows from the back of our loudest area.

There are no standing areas.

If "these lads" can't get a ticket at the back of the Kop then they can't sit/stand there. It really is that simple. I've managed to sit/stand in my allocated seat, home & away, for over 20 years.

I have no problem at all with people standing at the back of the Kop, and I don't really care that people stand there when their ticket is elsewhere as it doesn't affect me, but it's against the ground regulations, and continuing to do it is going to get a portion of the Kop closed, if not all of it.

It's ridiculous that we've been pulled up on this but we now have no option but to do something about it.

 

[Eza Blade]

And most here will vote Labour because their dad did

This probably applies to why people stand at the back of the kop.

 

[sjl]

A lot of this thread has been about the club and the fans.

I'd also like to see some transparency now from the authorities side.

Why have Sheffield United been pinpointed?

Are we saying that none of what has been highlighted has been going on at Wednesday or Rotherham, Barnsley, Donny or Chesterfield?

Quite frankly I don't believe we would be so significantly different to all of them that we should be the ones sanctioned whilst they receive no rebuke too.

What is our expected path to effective? Is there a measure which will remove these sanctions or are we being held to impeccably high standards that no other club is being asked to adhere to?

They've made the charges. It's time for the local journos to also step up. Why United and not the others? Are they sending someone to observe the other local teams to impartially observe? And not by tipping them off in advance to ensure compliance, but by going there unannounced to observe their natural behavior. No issue if we are sanctioned if we are guilty of something but I expect the same to be adhered to by others too.

It’s because we are always been picked on. Whether it’s other fans showing off whilst SYP let them do it, or VAR decisions that got us relegated. Everyone treats us differently…it’s not fair.