Sander Berge Haters

[Nagima]

In a nutshell.

Weak as piss off the ball, rarely tracks back, rarely tackles, rarely wins a 50/50 for a free ball.....

On the ball strong as an ox, one of our few players that can actually go past a player, has scored a few goals when he's played and got a few assists. More than Norwood for example who's played about 10x more.

What I hate though and it's in the British DNA is that we want hard work and graft. Nick Montgomery over David Ginola, Matty Done over Laurent Robert.

I see a quote above 'i'd love to see his stats on ground covered' as though this is the benchmark for deciding a quality player or not lol

Its not a dichotomy. Its not he is brilliant or he is shite for most fans. Its somewhere in the middle with potential to be a lot better.

It doesn't mean that if we don't agree that he is brilliant that we want a grafter with no skill instead. Berge has skills that the team needs and has potential

He is showing signs of finding some form and would be more effective for the team if he cut inside through the middle more often. He has some weaknesses in his game too that he needs to work on. The way some fans crow about him you would think he is the messiah.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Clear as day that pass was meant for Ndiaye

View attachment 129655

It was a decent ball to Ndiaye if it would have got there, but the the 'past it' striker who only scores penalties had the nous to steal in behind the carthorse who was marking him and slot it away with his left foot

 

[Houston_Blade]

I love the superiority of the Berge apologists who think that because people 'can't see his quality' that they'd rather have 11 Monty's running around the pitch.

He's been pretty rubbish in the main and hasn't really looked that interested in digging in and improving our performances. Now I understand that by saying "digging in" it must mean that I know fuck all about football and just want people who run around a lot and tackle. A CL appearance against Liverpool and some youtube highlights from Belgian football aren't going to win me over.

If he plays to his potential then he'll be a good player, he just needs to do it consistently. I'm fully aware of all the Berge excuses and listed a number of them recently, they are excuses though and he needs to show improvement to win over a lot of fans.

Worst case he's an expensive mistake, there are a lot of other scenarios in between, the best being that he cements himself as a first team player for us by playing well and then does the same in the PL.

 

[Greenblades]

The reason we signed him against other teams is we offered him the chance to come in and play, it’s not rocket science. Other clubs if they had signed him and not started him straight away wouldn’t have meant he was shite or not good enough, he still would have had a good enough level of ability, he just might needed more time, again that’s not rocket science

It’s likely he signed with us to get that experience and see if he could adapt to playing in this league

As for suggested work rate and earning the right to play, ok erm, the lad has played international football, not just because he was the only one they had, he has also played champions league and Europa, he has done that because the English way of work hard and be tough isn’t thankfully a requirement anywhere else

So we didn’t offer the others a chance to come and play then ? No not rocket science at all. Laughable.

If the most talented don’t have to do a job let’s tell a MGW and Ndiaye to also not battle , not try and win a ball back and not move off the ball.

It’s not about hating anyone. I would love him to perform for 90 mins but the fact is we haven’t seen it or do you think we have ?

Flashes yes, drives forward with the ball occasionally yes….

Nothing to do with Blackwell or Warnick and why that’s a default argument for you I don’t know.

There is a famous quote in sport.

“Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard”

Spookily it’s not from Warnock either.

Final question from me…/ Did you go to Birmingham away and watch his first half performance with a full pitch view or did you watch it at home?

 

[Alan Birchenall's hair]

Working hard, running, tackling, getting a foot in, jumping for headers, tracking back. These are the easy bits of football. Superb fitness training, superior footwear, pitches like manicured lawns mean that all players can do that these days. If they want to that is. They just need the player to be willing. Having extra skills, that's the difficult bit. If Berge has these skills, then just apply the hard work bit, and Hey Presto! You have a top player. So far, he's not shown any sign of marrying both attributes together. Over to you Sander..........

 

[Brownieblade]

So we didn’t offer the others a chance to come and play then ? No not rocket science at all. Laughable.

If the most talented don’t have to do a job let’s tell a MGW and Ndiaye to also not battle , not try and win a ball back and not move off the ball.

It’s not about hating anyone. I would love him to perform for 90 mins but the fact is we haven’t seen it or do you think we have ?

Flashes yes, drives forward with the ball occasionally yes….

Nothing to do with Blackwell or Warnick and why that’s a default argument for you I don’t know.

There is a famous quote in sport.

“Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard”

Spookily it’s not from Warnock either.

Final question from me…/ Did you go to Birmingham away and watch his first half performance with a full pitch view or did you watch it at home?

I’m guessing given what we had to spend and who we were at the time meant that we wouldn’t have been an attractive proposition for many at the time, it was clearly a marriage of convenience for both sides, the fact you don’t understand that is well

Of course the most talented all have a job to do, the point is if experts like yourself are sat there watching him and you don’t think his style is putting the effort in then all that is is your opinion and nothing more to be frank, with regards to this conversation

I have seen him playing 90 mins for both us and Norway, if your asking me have I seen him getting stuck in and being hard/hoof it forward quickly then no, but even with my limited knowledge compared to the armchair fergies or Warnocks etc I know enough that football isn’t just about that

Driving forward with the ball?? I addressed that before elsewhere, why are you assuming, and let’s cut out the BS excuses , that’s what you are doing, why are you assuming driving forward with the ball is A: something that comes naturally to him ?? And B : that not doing that is somehow technically good enough?? Is it the price tag that makes you assume he should do it more often?? If we paid 10 million for Besic would you be assuming he would be creating 20 chances per game or scoring 20 a season

Final answer from me, where you sat at Birmingham or where someone sat at home has nothing to do with why neither of us are managing high level or likely any levels of football, there is a reason why others are given jobs to recognise talent and we aren’t

 

[Greenblades]

I’m guessing given what we had to spend and who we were at the time meant that we wouldn’t have been an attractive proposition for many at the time, it was clearly a marriage of convenience for both sides, the fact you don’t understand that is well

Of course the most talented all have a job to do, the point is if experts like yourself are sat there watching him and you don’t think his style is putting the effort in then all that is is your opinion and nothing more to be frank, with regards to this conversation

I have seen him playing 90 mins for both us and Norway, if your asking me have I seen him getting stuck in and being hard/hoof it forward quickly then no, but even with my limited knowledge compared to the armchair fergies or Warnocks etc I know enough that football isn’t just about that

Driving forward with the ball?? I addressed that before elsewhere, why are you assuming, and let’s cut out the BS excuses , that’s what you are doing, why are you assuming driving forward with the ball is A: something that comes naturally to him ?? And B : that not doing that is somehow technically good enough?? Is it the price tag that makes you assume he should do it more often?? If we paid 10 million for Besic would you be assuming he would be creating 20 chances per game or scoring 20 a season

Final answer from me, where you sat at Birmingham or where someone sat at home has nothing to do with why neither of us are managing high level or likely any levels of football, there is a reason why others are given jobs to recognise talent and we aren’t

We are not going to agree and that’s ok !

I don’t claim to be an expert but I can say I have watched us home and away for 40 plus years and seen hundreds of players. So I think I have a view of a decent player and a view on a poor one.

This lad has ability but he does not show it enough.

You think differently and that’s your opinion.

I have never asked him to clog someone, hoof it etc so why do you suggest I have?

All I said is his first half at Birmingham was disgraceful. I stand by that.

I also say he has not done enough to deserve a starting position in our team consistently.

His stats for Genk in 4 years were…..

Played 73 , 4 goals and 3 assists.

Champions League…. 6 games no goals and no assists.

For us…. 41 games, 3 goals and 3 assists.

I want more from him … you don’t seem to think he needs to do more.

 

[Brownieblade]

We are not going to agree and that’s ok !

I don’t claim to be an expert but I can say I have watched us home and away for 40 plus years and seen hundreds of players. So I think I have a view of a decent player and a view on a poor one.

This lad has ability but he does not show it enough.

You think differently and that’s your opinion.

I have never asked him to clog someone, hoof it etc so why do you suggest I have?

All I said is his first half at Birmingham was disgraceful. I stand by that.

I also say he has not done enough to deserve a starting position in our team consistently.

His stats for Genk in 4 years were…..

Played 73 , 4 goals and 3 assists.

Champions League…. 6 games no goals and no assists.

For us…. 41 games, 3 goals and 3 assists.

I want more from him … you don’t seem to think he needs to do more.

Not at all mate, the difference is I see him and saw him as a CDM coming here and for me it’s clear as day, or should be based on what we have seen from him, that he likes to sit there and move the ball on and then move up on occasions depending on other players, ie if Norwood wasn’t in the team I think he would naturally think to himself to sit there whilst Fleck and another get forward

I think there is personally a big difference between saying the lad has ability and should use it more and then bypassing how the lad naturally plays. I used the example before of Makelele, We all know he has ability but that doesn’t mean if you sign him and stick him in the Duffy role that he would be happy playing that role

If you want to argue he doesn’t fit into the United way or even he doesn’t play like what you expect from a championship midfielder and based on that you wouldn’t start him then fair enough, it’s a particular way that has success but wouldn’t In many other leagues possibly

Final points, it’s not that I don’t want more, it’s I don’t think we play him where he naturally would be better and I don’t think in this league what he does best would be recognised

 

[alcoblade]

Not at all mate, the difference is I see him and saw him as a CDM coming here and for me it’s clear as day, or should be based on what we have seen from him, that he likes to sit there and move the ball on and then move up on occasions depending on other players, ie if Norwood wasn’t in the team I think he would naturally think to himself to sit there whilst Fleck and another get forward

I think there is personally a big difference between saying the lad has ability and should use it more and then bypassing how the lad naturally plays. I used the example before of Makelele, We all know he has ability but that doesn’t mean if you sign him and stick him in the Duffy role that he would be happy playing that role

If you want to argue he doesn’t fit into the United way or even he doesn’t play like what you expect from a championship midfielder and based on that you wouldn’t start him then fair enough, it’s a particular way that has success but wouldn’t In many other leagues possibly

Final points, it’s not that I don’t want more, it’s I don’t think we play him where he naturally would be better and I don’t think in this league what he does best would be recognised

For clarity, do you think tackling is a strength or a weakness in Berge’s game?

 

[Brownieblade]

For clarity, do you think tackling is a strength or a weakness in Berge’s game?

Do I think it’s a necessity to play his possible preferred position, I think there are different levels of both tackling and playing the position

Can he improve, well all players can improve can’t they

Is he better suited to a more technical/slower paced league then it’s probably yes

 

[alcoblade]

Do I think it’s a necessity to play his possible preferred position, I think there are different levels of both tackling and playing the position

Can he improve, well all players can improve can’t they

Is he better suited to a more technical/slower paced league then it’s probably yes

But you've argued that we're expecting too much because he hasn't played in his most suited position. Now you're arguing for a defensive role, when at the same time I think you'd accept defensive work (tackling and covering ground) is not one of his strengths (and it's really a weakness).

It seems to me you're coming around to the acceptance that it appears he's just not suited to the English game. We could have all agreed on that some time ago, and saved you from telling everyone they know nothing about football.

 

[SouthportBlade]

Endless discussion can be simplified as follows...

Nearly everyone agrees that Berge has been underwhelming/disappointing so far, but has shown glimpses of ability.

It follows that either:

A) He's overhyped and not good enough
B) He's actually talented and will come good

Fin.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

First it was Brewster and now it's Berge. Why do we have to slag our own off? It wasn't either of their faults that they both cost big fees nor that they were both signed without a clear plan to integrate them into the team. The injuries have just made it all even worse but again it's not the players fault.

At the time they were both extremely highly rated and it was a bit of a coup they joined us.

Brewster started to come good, Berge is only slightly older, can't we just get behind the lad instead of slating him every time. His potential is obvious, the team appear to be pulling together, why don't we as fans do the same and get behind all of them

Seems so easy and logical doesn’t it? But no, the circa 2008 Blackwell Guide to Sheffield United is clear. Kick hard, run fast, scream a lot and slap/kiss badge. I don’t care if you’re Messi scoring a hat trick, you’re worthless unless the aforementioned behaviour is demonstrated.

 

[A Storm of Blades]

Working hard, running, tackling, getting a foot in, jumping for headers, tracking back. These are the easy bits of football. Superb fitness training, superior footwear, pitches like manicured lawns mean that all players can do that these days. If they want to that is. They just need the player to be willing. Having extra skills, that's the difficult bit. If Berge has these skills, then just apply the hard work bit, and Hey Presto! You have a top player. So far, he's not shown any sign of marrying both attributes together. Over to you Sander..........

I could give you a dozen all-time greats that certainly didn’t do all of that. And whilst I agree with the principle of this being expected, I dispute that these should sit at the top of the pyramid. Fitness and dodgy knees notwithstanding I and most others on here would do ourselves an injury running about for the club we love. That doesn’t mean we wouldn’t be utter dogshit in professional terms.

Ginola was quizzed on his effort once and said the team need him to reserve energy to burst passed a man, latch onto a through-ball, make a killer shot or pass. Not depleting energy to make a yard 50 sprint back, last ditch tackle. Berbatov said something similar. Bergkamp was constantly accused of being lazy too.

I’ve honestly seen people dismiss Berge’s excellent pass assist because he didn’t… (insert something to do with work rate here). Setup a goal a game and have a tea party in the centre circle for the rest of the game for all I care. So long as we win.

 

[alcoblade]

Seems so easy and logical doesn’t it? But no, the circa 2008 Blackwell Guide to Sheffield United is clear. Kick hard, run fast, scream a lot and slap/kiss badge. I don’t care if you’re Messi scoring a hat trick, you’re worthless unless the aforementioned behaviour is demonstrated.

Straw man alert - unless of course you can find a post on this thread that backs that up?

By your logic, we’d still have Moose, and be complaining that Ndiaye works too hard and looks like Monty.

You can only influence games by being involved. Infiencuong fanes is a combination of quality and involvement.

He scores 8/10 for offensive quality, 3/10 for defensive quality and and 1/10 for involvement. The likes of Messi and Ronaldo (forget Monty) don’t dine out on one quality moment every 5 matches.

 

[Grecian2000]

Is it not indicative of Berge's overall performance for us that a decent half and an assist merits a thread of it's own?

If this forum was around in TC's heyday Foxy would have to rent space on NASA's mainframe to cope with his threads alone.

 

[ancientblade]

What’s laughable is the notion that he has been performing and has obvious class, if only you were educated enough to see it.

We all hope there’s a player in there. When he performs, I’ll happily say so.

Paul Couuts was shite for 2 years. He ended up being a fantastic footballer for us. It might still be the case with Berge. It will not alter his lack of performance thus far.

oh im not educated am i only been watching the game for 65 years and i dont think theres any need to insult a fellow blade with comments like that if you cant see theres a good player in there you know nothing about football maybe your a wendy ?

 

[Alan Birchenall's hair]

Is it not indicative of Berge's overall performance for us that a decent half and an assist merits a thread of it's own?

If this forum was around in TC's heyday Foxy would have to rent space on NASA's mainframe to cope with his threads alone.

If we included threads for Brown and Duffy, even NASA couldn't cope. So let's stick to Sander's pass through to Billy for now.....

 

[alcoblade]

oh im not educated am i only been watching the game for 65 years and i dont think theres any need to insult a fellow blade with comments like that if you cant see theres a good player in there you know nothing about football maybe your a wendy ?

I think you've read my post wrong - it says "what's laughable is the notion that" pointing the finger at those who are questioning others football knowledge.

Read it again.

 

[ancientblade]

I think you've read my post wrong - it says "what's laughable is the notion that" pointing the finger at those who are questioning others football knowledge.

Read it again.

your quote was that i wasnt educated enough to see it

 

[Mojo]

Berge reminds me of Coutts pre wilder days. You could tell there was a decent player there but he got absolute pelters on here.

 

[Houston_Blade]

your quote was that i wasnt educated enough to see it

I’ll mediate here.

What he said was that there are a lot of people when it comes to Berge who think that anyone who isn’t gushing with praise, is thick for not seeing he’s a good player.

I can only speak for myself but based on his output since he signed he is a huge disappointment, this doesn’t mean that he’s a bad player or I can’t see he’s got the attributes to be a good player. Simply that he’s not been good on anything near a consistent basis in a Blades shirt.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Berge reminds me of Coutts pre wilder days. You could tell there was a decent player there but he got absolute pelters on here.

Bizarre that, a player who isn’t playing very well getting pelters from his teams followers. That’s never happened before and will never happen again!

Hopefully Sander turns some Coutts-esque displays in and a few people might change their minds.

 

[Brownieblade]

But you've argued that we're expecting too much because he hasn't played in his most suited position. Now you're arguing for a defensive role, when at the same time I think you'd accept defensive work (tackling and covering ground) is not one of his strengths (and it's really a weakness).

It seems to me you're coming around to the acceptance that it appears he's just not suited to the English game. We could have all agreed on that some time ago, and saved you from telling everyone they know nothing about football.

I’m not the one spouting how educated I am, unlike yourself lol

I’m not arguing for a defensive role, I’m pointing out that’s most likely his preferred role and how he wants to play

What I’m saying is CDM isn’t all about flying tackles and running around like a Monty, I’m not saying he can’t improve just stating the obvious that there are also other ways to play the position

Coming around to the idea he can’t play the lower league way doesn’t mean he couldn’t and can’t succeed in this country which is a large bit your missing out on

I’m hoping your football education you spouted on about the other day wasnt paid for, you might need to ask for a refund

 

[alcoblade]

your quote was that i wasnt educated enough to see it

You’re really are reading it wrong, but I can’t be arsed to persuade you now you dropped to the level of pig jibes.

 

[Espania blade]

Not bothering to read ALL the posts but for what it's worth.

The lad has just come back from a long and serious injury.
Therefore he needs time (more than a few matches) to get his match fitness back, and then his skills back in harness, all that takes time.
The only reservation I had when we signed him (I ha a little debate on Twitter about this!) was that at 6'4" he is going to be injury prone.
Having said that he has a talent, we have seen it in action, the game against Birmingham was undoubtable his best since he started getting "minutes"
I think he will go on to get better & better, we just have to be patient, I'm sure the back room team know what they are doing with him.
Comparing him with Moussett who has talent but can't be arsed to harness it, Berge has talent and wants to use it, be patient it will come.

I'm off for a Torres 10 Brandy, it's a dull & slow day on the costa!

 

[alcoblade]

I’m not the one spouting how educated I am, unlike yourself lol

I’m not arguing for a defensive role, I’m pointing out that’s most likely his preferred role and how he wants to play

What I’m saying is CDM isn’t all about flying tackles and running around like a Monty, I’m not saying he can’t improve just stating the obvious that there are also other ways to play the position

Coming around to the idea he can’t play the lower league way doesn’t mean he couldn’t and can’t succeed in this country which is a large bit your missing out on

I’m hoping your football education you spouted on about the other day wasnt paid for, you might need to ask for a refund

There’s a few of you clearly struggling with basic English, that’s for certain.

Anyway, where were we? The suggestion that the strongest position is a defensive, midfield role for someone who’s hopeless at defending…..wibble!

 

[Mojo]

Bizarre that, a player who isn’t playing very well getting pelters from his teams followers. That’s never happened before and will never happen again!

Hopefully Sander turns some Coutts-esque displays in and a few people might change their minds.

Hopefully. It's wonders what a run in a side playing well can do for anyone really. There are quite a few fickle people on here

 

[ancientblade]

You’re really are reading it wrong, but I can’t be arsed to persuade you now you dropped to the level of pig jibes.

fair enough alcho if you think im reading it wrong wont argue with you anymore but going back to berge yes he has been dissapointing for us but i still think theres a player there and think hecky and mcall might just get him going as for position definetly not a dm more like a cam like duffy think berge and mgw in the same side and both firing could get us in to the top 6 just a pity about brewster he was just hitting form

 

[alcoblade]

fair enough alcho if you think im reading it wrong wont argue with you anymore but going back to berge yes he has been dissapointing for us but i still think theres a player there and think hecky and mcall might just get him going as for position definetly not a dm more like a cam like duffy think berge and mgw in the same side and both firing could get us in to the top 6 just a pity about brewster he was just hitting form

I’d also like to see him much more advanced, where his main option would be marauding forward. That’s where he has undoubted quality, and he would also struggle to hide / be hidden there.