Incoming? Alexander Blessin

[Booker4]

How 'Sheffield United' is this whole escapade?

Weve not had a foreign manager in our 131 year history and the UK was in the EU for 48 years. Now within 4 months of leaving the EU we are trying to appoint a European manager and probably cant because of the new rules.

Only at Bramall Lane !!!

Maybe he could manage us via Zoom video calls?!

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

And. Your nightly reminder. I'm not saying all these barriers can't be overcome. I'm saying these are the barriers that we will have to overcome.

 

[Silent Blade]

How 'Sheffield United' is this whole escapade?

Weve not had a foreign manager in our 131 year history and the UK was in the EU for 48 years. Now within 4 months of leaving the EU we are trying to appoint a European manager and probably cant because of the new rules.

Only at Bramall Lane !!!

Danny Bergara was our manager for 2 games in January 1988

 

[Booker4]

And. Your nightly reminder. I'm not saying all these barriers can't be overcome. I'm saying these are the barriers that we will have to overcome.

That's fair enough Phil. I just can't imagine that we'd go the length of approaching the manager and club (if we do) agree everything and then got to the F.A knowing he doesn' qualify. Surely the club will know already whether they can achieve an exception or at least have a decent chance or we'll look total mugs.

 

[FriethBlade]

Danny Bergara was our manager for 2 games in January 1988

Dont let facts ruin my story !

 

[Bladeloyal]

That's fair enough Phil. I just can't imagine that we'd go the length of approaching the manager and club (if we do) agree everything and then got to the F.A knowing he doesn' qualify. Surely the club will know already whether they can achieve an exception or at least have a decent chance or we'll look total mugs.

And the one thing the prince isn't is a mug .

 

[Bladeloyal]

Anyway lads and lasses ,I've phoned my owd mate turry robinson ,he's on more fa committees than you can shake a stick at ,it's cushty ,sorted

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

That's fair enough Phil. I just can't imagine that we'd go the length of approaching the manager and club (if we do) agree everything and then got to the F.A knowing he doesn' qualify. Surely the club will know already whether they can achieve an exception or at least have a decent chance or we'll look total mugs.

In the 2000s, when I was assessing evidence for what we would now call Exception Panels (for overseas PLAYERS), the judgement of the panel was, of course, not prejudged. Of course the clubs would not know what the outcome of the panel was before they submitted evidence. That's the nature of panels. They don't convene a panel to check whether the yet to be convened panel will rule in favour of the actual panel. But, you know that.
Some of the evidence I looked at was comical. It usually amounted to - yeah, but, reasons, and some shit about him being from Germany, not Kazakhstan - one minute tops to review - send it back to them mentioning paragraph 26d and I guarantee we'll never hear from them again - job done - next.
The Regs then were much more rooted in the FIFA Rankings of the country the player was from. Loads of Exception Panel evidence simply amounted to - he's good, the FIFA Rankings are wrong.
FFS, why were they paying me - response - thank you for your detailed evidence, please take that up with FIFA, the deadline to resubmit closes in two weeks - everyone into The Moorfoot Tavern

 

[sheepbridge]

See post 404 in first instance

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[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

That's fair enough Phil. I just can't imagine that we'd go the length of approaching the manager and club (if we do) agree everything and then got to the F.A knowing he doesn' qualify. Surely the club will know already whether they can achieve an exception or at least have a decent chance or we'll look total mugs.

Sorry Booker4 but there's another thing. There is NO precedent, NO case law, no previous examples to use to help our lawyers assess the likelihood of success. Because these rules are completely new from 1 January 2021. Maybe loads of clubs have put Exceptions in the last three months. But there's only been one foreign Manager appointment (at Chelsea) in that time. This is a completely new post Brexit process & is therefore much more volatile than a honed and tried & trusted process that's been running for decades. We would be guinea pigs.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Sorry, post not found

Automated Response: Unfortunately the poster you are replying to has Blocked you & won't see your post.

 

[KiwiBlade]

Sorry Booker4 but there's another thing. There is NO precedent, NO case law, no previous examples to use to help our lawyers assess the likelihood of success. Because these rules are completely new from 1 January 2021. Maybe loads of clubs have put Exceptions in the last three months. But there's only been one foreign Manager appointment (at Chelsea) in that time. This is a completely new post Brexit process & is therefore much more volatile than a honed and tried & trusted process that's been running for decades. We would be guinea pigs.

The only other one i can think of is Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink at Burton, who was appointed on 1st Jan. However, I think he's a long term resident in the UK so I don't think would have been subject to the GBE rules.

 

[VonBrysonsExpress]

I work in the immigration environment and whilst unable to disclose any specifics I think it's fair to suggest that a lot of immigration legislation was introduced to an incredibly fast timescale to deliver in time for our formal exit from the transitional arrangements. All legislation is subject to review and change and the fact that the panel was not scheduled to convene after January 2021 suggests further changes to the rules. This may work in our favour, it may not. The primary concern of the current government is to prevent low skilled workers entry, anyone on a high salary, for a recognised company/brand will seek exception to this. It would also be nice to think the top club's and reps aren't lobbying like billy-o to ensure much of the status quo for top signings including managers...

 

[bladesadviser]

It does seem like Jokanovic wants to have his cake and eat it. He wants to get the top dollar you'd associate with managing in a shit league run by wealthy Royals yet also ply his trade in a reputable league of the Championship which doesn't historically pay anywhere near 4m a year.

It will really be typical if we mess around, fail to get Blessin, Allardyce leaves WBA and then they appoint Jokanovic!

We then don't have 1st or 2nd choice and have to start again having wasted a lot of time.

Jason Tindall - always been the club's first choice, stated the Prince

This was always my fear with Tindall that the previously used phrase for players "the replacement's already at the club" would come into play for the next manager

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

I work in the immigration environment and whilst unable to disclose any specifics I think it's fair to suggest that a lot of immigration legislation was introduced to an incredibly fast timescale to deliver in time for our formal exit from the transitional arrangements. All legislation is subject to review and change and the fact that the panel was not scheduled to convene after January 2021 suggests further changes to the rules. This may work in our favour, it may not. The primary concern of the current government is to prevent low skilled workers entry, anyone on a high salary, for a recognised company/brand will seek exception to this. It would also be nice to think the top club's and reps aren't lobbying like billy-o to ensure much of the status quo for top signings including managers...

Great contribution. Do many other sectors of the economy require an INDUSTRY Endorsement (ie FA) as well as an EMPLOYER Sponsorship? I'm wondering whether football has this extra hurdle

 

[TJB.]

If we are pursuing 'lexy Blessin, someone at The Lane will have to take care of business.

Get yer CV sent in, old bean. Your club needs you!

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Get yer CV sent in, old bean. Your club needs you!

Phil not here. Gone Law School

 

[VonBrysonsExpress]

Great contribution. Do many other sectors of the economy require an INDUSTRY Endorsement (ie FA) as well as an EMPLOYER Sponsorship? I'm wondering whether football has this extra hurdle

There is a requirement to prove qualifications and where necessary endorsements should the profession require it. Sports and entertainment have always been problematic to 'evidence' as it's often subjective hence the old panels you attended. I remember Bassett amongst others sitting on those to steer whether a player was sufficiently good enough to warrant a work permit. Lots of noise recently about Europe being a closed shop to up and coming British bands touring so industries are being vocal about perceived failings of the legislation brought in. I'd hope if Blessin is our number 1 target a persuasive argument could be presented as in other industries/commercial interests but that's really just a hunch!

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

There is a requirement to prove qualifications and where necessary endorsements should the profession require it. Sports and entertainment have always been problematic to 'evidence' as it's often subjective hence the old panels you attended. I remember Bassett amongst others sitting on those to steer whether a player was sufficiently good enough to warrant a work permit. Lots of noise recently about Europe being a closed shop to up and coming British bands touring so industries are being vocal about perceived failings of the legislation brought in. I'd hope if Blessin is our number 1 target a persuasive argument could be presented as in other industries/commercial interests but that's really just a hunch!

Thanks. Great insight. (Correction - I never sat on panels, if the admin people running the panels felt they needed my specific eye on the submitted evidence, then I'd review it well ahead of the panel sitting, indeed they mostly hoped my view would blow the evidence & the sitting panel wouldn't be necessary)

 

[Rudders]

Great contribution. Do many other sectors of the economy require an INDUSTRY Endorsement (ie FA) as well as an EMPLOYER Sponsorship? I'm wondering whether football has this extra hurdle

Hi Phil, yes but its usually stuff like are you a Chartered Engineer/accountant, do you have a masters degree, how many years experience do you have, as well as the sponsorship. There is usually a points equivalence system lurking in the background which this GBE seems to be aping. I think this is because there is no international professional recognition system for footy managers.

 

[Harrisblade]

Great contribution. Do many other sectors of the economy require an INDUSTRY Endorsement (ie FA) as well as an EMPLOYER Sponsorship? I'm wondering whether football has this extra hurdle

Possibly a bit of protectionism for up and coming UK managers?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Hi Phil, yes but its usually stuff like are you a Chartered Engineer/accountant, do you have a masters degree, how many years experience do you have, as well as the sponsorship. There is usually a points equivalence system lurking in the background which this GBE seems to be aping. I think this is because there is no international professional recognition system for footy managers.

I actually disagreed with part of the system I was updating 20 years ago. (Based on how many appearances at what FIFA Ranking level). The principle was sound enough. As you say, you don't have formal qualifications for players. But, years before my time, someone had done a little tweak to reduce volatility in who was & wasn't eligible. That occasionally produced perverse results. The fact I disagreed was, of course, irrelevant. Those were the rules & they were applied.

 

[VonBrysonsExpress]

Hi Phil, yes but its usually stuff like are you a Chartered Engineer/accountant, do you have a masters degree, how many years experience do you have, as well as the sponsorship. There is usually a points equivalence system lurking in the background which this GBE seems to be aping. I think this is because there is no international professional recognition system for footy managers.

Spot on, route specific requirements aren't my area at the moment but yes, as we're now in a points based system then qualifications, experience, salary etc...all contribute as to whether you qualify. I think the problem is, and as Phil has patiently explained, the criteria for football managers is very specific and doesn't work in a points based way, i.e. Blessin has been employed in various roles across some significant European teams which should count more than being an unsuccessful manager for 20 years and qualifying through time employed! But as Phil has pointed out, current legislation doesn't have this flex, my prediction is that changes will be made in the future but good or bad for this scenario is open to question!

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Possibly a bit of protectionism for up and coming UK managers?

Well. Protecting jobs for UK workers (including Managers) is what all "Work Permit" regs are about. Pre Brexit as well. Nearly every country on Earth (and single markets) understandably runs protectionism policies. The more Blessin's the fewer Wilders.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Spot on, route specific requirements aren't my area at the moment but yes, as we're now in a points based system then qualifications, experience, salary etc...all contribute as to whether you qualify. I think the problem is, and as Phil has patiently explained, the criteria for football managers is very specific and doesn't work in a points based way, i.e. Blessin has been employed in various roles across some significant European teams which should count more than being an unsuccessful manager for 20 years and qualifying through time employed! But as Phil has pointed out, current legislation doesn't have this flex, my prediction is that changes will be made in the future but good or bad for this scenario is open to question!

James Shield reporting for The Star actually got some of it wrong in my opinion. He said there was a points based element for Managers. But there isn't. (And before anyone starts, I thought James did a great job in difficult circumstances - posing the issue as a question, rather than sounding cut & dried, which it clearly isn't)

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Can't see the FA blocking a Premier League club from appointing a foreign manager.
Given the global reach of the game in England it would be unlikely and given the political fallout if they did, just can't see it.
If the club does want him, probably an idea to appoint him while we're still in the PL and all the global gubbins that goes with it.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

There is a requirement to prove qualifications and where necessary endorsements should the profession require it. Sports and entertainment have always been problematic to 'evidence' as it's often subjective hence the old panels you attended. I remember Bassett amongst others sitting on those to steer whether a player was sufficiently good enough to warrant a work permit. Lots of noise recently about Europe being a closed shop to up and coming British bands touring so industries are being vocal about perceived failings of the legislation brought in. I'd hope if Blessin is our number 1 target a persuasive argument could be presented as in other industries/commercial interests but that's really just a hunch!

I seem to remember Jimmy Armfield was a regular on the panels. I used to enjoy spotting the odd footy bloke being escorted in the lifts in Moorfoot.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Given the global reach of the game in England it would be unlikely and given the political fallout if they did, just can't see it.
If the club does want him, probably an idea to appoint him while we're still in the PL and all the global gubbins that goes with it.

Highly unlikely that a Premier league club would look to appoint a manager with less than 2 years experience.
Let’s be honest if it wasn’t our club, the criteria seems more than fair, maybe it just needs an appeal process for rare cases, or not if they want it cut and dried.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Can't see the FA blocking a Premier League club from appointing a foreign manager.
Given the global reach of the game in England it would be unlikely and given the political fallout if they did, just can't see it.
If the club does want him, probably an idea to appoint him while we're still in the PL and all the global gubbins that goes with it.

The country narrowly voted and on that basis there is much more scrutiny on work permits. With a whole host of new rule based systems in place in a short period of time. As a Unitedite I would be appalled if Derby County (say) or any rival club appointed a manager when the laws of the land don't allow it just because of reasons....
The published regulations, which everyone can see, make no distinction between managers for the PL & those for the EFL. The FA look after the English game, not the Premier League.

 

[Rodley]

Well. Protecting jobs for UK workers (including Managers) is what all "Work Permit" regs are about. Pre Brexit as well. Nearly every country on Earth (and single markets) understandably runs protectionism policies. The more Blessin's the fewer Wilders.

So the new regs are a bit of a mixed blessin?