Chris Wilder's position as Sheffield United boss

[itsinyerblood]

Apologies to one and all if this has already been mentioned.

I think the key to much of Wilder's obvious disenchantment is the wage structure that leaves United at a serious disadvantage when it comes to who we want to sign. There have been a few names mentioned that went to other clubs presumably because we won't offer wages that are comparable to other Prem clubs. If that doesn't put us behind other clubs then I don't know what does? I do appreciate that raising the ceiling where wages are concerned could also be the cause of future problems for the club, but even with that in mind, did anyone genuinely think that we'd be able to compete for a better standard of player paying Championship wages? It screams of the club, at least those who make these decisions, not giving enough consideration to the direction they want this club to go in and what it will take to sustain a place in the Premiership.

 

[Geordie Blade]

Be fascinating to see where we go as a club over the next few years from a strategy point of view. We got lucky with the appointment of Wilder, it wasn't part of a grand plan. How do we now ensure that we build on that luck by having a plan that means changing manager doesn't mean a complete change of direction? Basically how do we do a Barnsley and not a weds?

Completely agree, this is going to be key, and it's why I'd rather stick with the very competent coach rather than risk it to pursue a riskier recruitment-based model. The pigs are a horrible (yet, oh so enjoyable) warning as to how things can go from bouncy marginal play-off second placers to a putrid shambles of a dead wasps nest in the space of 24 months.

 

[robbiez666]

Anything the Daily Fail prints about SUFC has an element of exaggeration, Fat Boy Samuels and the McCabe PR machine post court judgement spring to mind.

From the Athletics considered article yesterday that a DOF recruitment type model was being proposed we have moved to a Director of Football having total control over CW. I doubt the latter is the case in fact the Prince himself has said recruitment needs to be looked at not the whole of the Managers role.

Its obvious there have been problems since the turn of the year. CW's own demeanour is there for all to see as his language has become ever more defensive. From a position of strength last season CW's hand is now weakened with how the season has gone. Unfortunately he seems to have gone on the offensive off the pitch when IMO it would have been better to have done this on it. A good run to the end of the season all guns blazing will give the Board pause for thought.

This has been a unique season that can not be compared to others and it is wrong to measure performance as you would in normal circumstances. That includes both CW and the Prince. Even without a pandemic we would have struggled as a Club to maintain our EPL status without significant investment and an overhaul of how we operate off the pitch.

Whilst revenue has been seriously affected the Prince needs to keep his side of the bargain and ensure the work at the Academy starts before the season ends and commits to keeping players unless silly offers come in for them. That statement alone may take some of the heat out of the situation. He also has to find investment for the benefit of SUFC alone in the short term. Whilst United World may be a long term project his SUFC asset will depreciate considerably the longer we remain in the Championship. Sustainability is as much about investment and increased revenue streams as is living within your own means. It is understandable that the Board may be unhappy that this is being played out in the public domain but they are dealing with an individual who wears his heart on his sleeve and does care passionately about the Club.

CW for his part has to accept that incremental change he's previously referred to season on season should include an overhaul of the recruitment process. If that means the model involves some of his decision making being taken on by someone else then if it benefits the Club and provides an opportunity for his star to rise again then he should embrace this.

As the quote says owners and managers are passing custodians no-one is bigger than the Club.

I think a lot of fans underestimate the financial impact that COVID has had on football finances and personal finances. The Prince is worth less than most and yet our spending in the last 2 windows has been competitive. It's ok having a long-term pre-COVID plan but that obviously changes if revenues drop by £20-40 million per year and then by £100 million with relegation.

Our recruitment policy will not work at this level. The only other club with a similar system is Burnley and they seat of the pants most years now (and are fortunate how bad the bottom 3 have been this season).

I think CW needs to be realistic about this. We can't just sign from the English leagues. Every PL team wants English players and will pay over the odds for them. We can't compete for the top talent. At the same time, our youth teams are miles behind most PL teams. Much of this is a consequence of rapid success. We're competing against teams who have been at the top level for much of their recent history. We need to look further afield and it's simply not possible for a manager to be heavily involved in that (not that CW has expressed a willingness to sign from abroad).

I think the solution to the current problem is compromise. PA finds the money to improve the training and youth facilities. CW agrees to look further afield in his recruitment and employs people to do that. It doesn't necessarily need to be a DOF, but surely manager and board can find someone who they both can work with?

 

[robbiez666]

Was it Lampard who signed them, or Petr Cech?

That a good point, and I guess we'll never know to what degree Lampard had a yes/no on any of them. I suspect Chillwell would be his, but the foreign lads, maybe not.

 

[bromtom]

But these discussions and the wage budget are surely pre agreed?

If we hadn't bought say Brewster, we could pay our entire 25 man squad about 10 grand a week more for three years, and I don't think it'd be the entire group getting a wage bump. There's room to work something out surely? I think wage disparity is the issue really rather than finances. We've come up with players on Championship contracts, if we sign Jeff Hendrick for nowt but he wants £90k a week, then Norwood on £30k is going to get mardy etc

 

[LondonBlade89]

To reiterate what bromtom said, I don't know why there's not a middle ground somewhere. Clearly, our recruitment needs to be much, much better. Our target pool seems to pretty much extend to UK-based players only, and with our budget, we can't afford the best Championship players. This doesn't make for a squad that is building to be at the top level for the long-term. Why does a need to improve that mean bringing in a Director of Football?

I don't think it's the picking the players that's the problem, it's the group that we're choosing from that is.

 

[originaltrueblade]

That will depend on the reason for walking . The Prince has backed him to lead us next season

Like he promised in December that he would sanction two loan signings in January mmmmm

 

[originaltrueblade]

Surely the only person to blame if he resigns is Wilder?

That’s not always the case that’s why employment tribunals are full with constructive dismissal cases

 

[bartman]

Like he promised in December that he would sanction two loan signings in January mmmmm

Maybe he did . Maybe the players Wilder wanted ended up being too expensive and/or unobtainable ( Lingard plus one other) so the board decided not to pursue other targets.

The Prince has publicly said he wants Wilder to be our manager next season

 

[Blade1959]

That a good point, and I guess we'll never know to what degree Lampard had a yes/no on any of them. I suspect Chillwell would be his, but the foreign lads, maybe not.

Probably signed with the new latest manager in mind.

 

[BlairBlade]

Wasn't Berge signed via this sort of route? A player most agree is good but doesn't fit the system. Personally I think wilder has still done well with transfers. Up till the premier league it was brilliant and whilst the recent signings have not hit the ground running they were signed for their long term prospects and certainly shouldn't be written off as bad transfers.

I think his record in the transfer market over the last 2 seasons has been incredibly poor.
He may well have bought most players with a view to the future and they may well, all, come good.
Unfortunately that was not the correct thing to do, was it?
We are not a club who has the luxury of spending £120+ million on prospects.
We needed players who could produce the goods, do the job and make us better.
That has not happened.
I do not know what CW is playing at.

Like he promised in December that he would sanction two loan signings in January mmmmm

You can’t blame the Prince for not allowing 2 more signings in January.
Well I certainly don’t.
Let’s face it which players CW wanted would have come to the Lane and which, if any, would have made any difference?

 

[Pedro Verde]

Ive seen a few comments with regard to our wage structure

Wilder has said on many occasions that he wont put the future of the football club at risk by paying stupid wages and he values the players that got us to the PL (who have been rewarded rightly in most cases by new improved contracts) It is my impression from what he has said he doesnt want a couple of star, stand out players being paid lots more than the rest of the squad. With that in mind is that limiting our recruitment of a player such as Wilson who is said to be on £100k per week, he would most certainly not fit our current wage structure
Could we sign a player like Wilson if Wilder relaxed his wages mantra or is it we just couldnt afford to go out on a limb for a quality experienced PL player

Is it Wilder that is limiting us The Prince with the budget or a bit of both

 

[Stuart Davis]

I know it must be difficult for CW when questions start being asked after flying for five years with essential carte blanche. Psychologically it’s hard. I griped when SUFC changed their website. Change is difficult, but you don’t threaten to walk just because there’s a discussion of bringing in a DOF, which is pretty common. I love that CW is “old school” in so many respects, but that attitude in this case may be to his detriment.

 

[AdamSufc1997]

Wider wants TOTAL charge of football at BDTBL. Not prepared to compromise. He's old school. Takes time / resources to develop foreign recruitment, understandably Wilder defaulted to Championship (as we didn't have a structure in place). What's more, foreign players don't always have the right attitude (ie Moose), attitude /personality is important part to Wilders approach. So, he shops locally in a market he knows and trusts. But, even in this market, we can't afford the very best Championship players. Fulham & Villa can. They have billionaire owners prepared to fund £50k p/w x 4 year deals. We are NOT in this market. So, Wilder has been restricted on who he can buy (lack of structure for recruiting overseas & lack of finance to fund £50k pw players). Not convinced this would change with a Director of Football; and the downside of losing Wilder is FAR greater than any upside of hiring a Director of Football. Don't be silly Prince.

Pointless point there tbh as english players can have not the right attitude either. You're right we can't afford the wages for the quality players so why should we still continue to search in the english leagues rather than abroad? just doesn't make sense. Having a DoF would be a positive imo

 

[guancheblade]

If we hadn't bought say Brewster, we could pay our entire 25 man squad about 10 grand a week more for three years, and I don't think it'd be the entire group getting a wage bump. There's room to work something out surely? I think wage disparity is the issue really rather than finances. We've come up with players on Championship contracts, if we sign Jeff Hendrick for nowt but he wants £90k a week, then Norwood on £30k is going to get mardy etc

So next year in the champ we should be able to afford better players and pay more than what we did when we were signing players in the champ last time around.

Then, when back in the Prem (hopefully) we push the boat out even more on wages (significantly more than now) but not so much so that the players already here will kick off about wage disparity. It's the long term benefit of being a yo yo club for a few years.

 

[Freethinker]

Going to massively struggle to care as much. I know there's arguments on recruitment being poor etc but I'll never forgive them for forcing him out. We sat and watched warnock win promotion after promotion while we fell apart after stupidly letting him leave. We'll do the same again here and be back to complete obscurity through our own stupidity.

Not necessarily it could be the start of something bigger and better, sometimes change is for better , not many managers stay at club's for a long time, not saying it's right or what I want but it might be the right time for Cris for a new challenge

 

[McGrath]

Not necessarily it could be the start of something bigger and better, sometimes change is for better , not many managers stay at club's for a long time, not saying it's right or what I want but it might be the right time for Cris for a new challenge

Realistically, it will be amazing if we find anyone as good as Wilder and things go on to be even better.

How many managers did we go through from Basset to Warnock and Warnock to Wilder.

 

[BanderSerge]

IMHO the biggest mistake we made was spending the whole budget on up and coming players unproven in the premier league. Unfortunately not one of McBurnie, Berge, Brewster, Ramsdale or Moose has proved worth it and that's nearly 100m of fees.

Now whether that's all down to the boards policy regarding resale value or CW not wanting to break the wage structure and upset the players that brought us up or not I don't know. But it seems there was an assumption somewhere that we were an established side after finishing 9th and we could afford to take this approach.

Its clearly backfired spectacularly and CW is blaming the board for not backing him and the board are sat there thinking we spent big. We gave you the money for Berge who wasnt in last years budget then we gave you the money for Brewster who wasnt in this years budget, you say you need a back up for JOC but why did you sign Robinson and so on.

As it is CWs standing in the game is still very high and rightly so. I suspect hes very worried that without the backing in the summer we will be mid table next season and his chance of a top job will have diminished massively whereas if he walks this summer hes still an attractive proposition.

Let's hope this is sorted out and we can go again with CW at the helm for a promotion push.

We spent bobbins (by PL standards) on young players who will give us 4/5 seasons with a profitable sell on value. The other route was Wilson, 2 ACL injuries, £100,000 a week, pushing 30. Same with King. Or anyone else with PL experience. We got there on a net spend of £6.4m and an ageing squad from the lower leagues. CWAK have effectively been penalised by the board for being too good at their job.

 

[Freethinker]

Realistically, it will be amazing if we find anyone as good as Wilder and things go on to be even better.

How many managers did we go through from Basset to Warnock and Warnock to Wilder.

Agree but now with prince in charge looks like a lot different blueprint for running the football club could work in our favour who knows

 

[BanderSerge]

I read it and there is nothing particularly new in it.
It is simply shoddy, recycled garbage with a bit of spurious shit-stirring thrown in.
I thought you only bought the mail if you were incontinent.

No it isn’t. As I said earlier, an editor wouldn’t go out on a limb with speculation.

 

[BlairBlade]

I don't buy into this 'recruitment is poor' there is a list of targets delivered to the board for whatever position CW wants, ollie Watkins would have been number 1 for strikers I assume, Brewster might have been 2nd 3rd 4th who knows, but if you can't match wages etc you have to work your way down the list and as you go down the list, in theory the quality diminishes. I do believe the foreign markets is something we should be making better use of and CW needs

No it isn’t. As I said earlier, an editor wouldn’t go out on a limb with speculation.

In the mail?
Give over!

 

[Robboblade1889]

Think we should get something straight here. Wilder isn't being forced out, he's simply not interested in having someone to give him advice. Can you honestly blame the board for wanting a DOF after the abysmal signings?

If you think the board are looking to just bring someone in to just give advice then you are deluded. There is far more to this than just that. The owners have to be very very careful here he won’t take much for the fan base to turn on them.

 

[BanderSerge]

Due to be finished for the 21/22 season. Dodgy? Don't agree with you there. They seem the board that have just seen 130m of investment literally spaffed up the wall. Quite rightly a bit unsure of offering the guy who's wasted money on shit more.

£100m over the next 3 seasons.

 

[McGrath]

Agree but now with prince in charge looks like a lot different blueprint for running the football club could work in our favour who knows

I'm a bit more sceptical about the Prince and his plans than you. I hope I am proved wrong

 

[BlairBlade]

We spent bobbins (by PL standards) on young players who will give us 4/5 seasons with a profitable sell on value. The other route was Wilson, 2 ACL injuries, £100,000 a week, pushing 30. Same with King. Or anyone else with PL experience. We got there on a net spend of £6.4m and an ageing squad from the lower leagues. CWAK have effectively been penalised by the board for being too good at their job.

Don’t think too many would support the idea that, in view of this season results and performances, that they are too good at their jobs.
Maybe they were good.
Maybe they will be good again but this season is not good however you look at it.

 

[Freethinker]

I'm a bit more sceptical about the Prince and his plans than you. I hope I am proved wrong

After going through everything with the blades since 68 mate nothing surprises me I will remember the great times Cris has given us but still support whatever the future holds

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

 

[LondonBlade89]

Well, I mean, that's seemingly a good thing. But I doubt the Mail's editor took a complete flyer on the story. It read like it had been briefed by someone on Wilder's side.

So what's the truth.....

 

[Upton_Blade]

Seems a good number fail to understand that maybe with a DoF (or similar role) it could help us get more value out of the little dosh we have if they had extensive knowledge of some foreign leagues. We cant just remain playing the British market forever as it is easily on average the least value for money especially regarding fees for decent talent. Wilder whether managing us or someone else in the future needs to learn/come to the fact that he cannot do absolutely everything by himself and with his own staff.

This is spot on for me. Buying domestic players has always been at a massive premium but it seems to have got worse in recent years.

In the last few years we have seen the following from The Championship:

McBurnie = £18m
Watkins = £33m
Maupey = £22m
Cash = £16m
Wood = £18m

Those are just the one's off the top of my head. I'm sure there's plenty more.

The point I'm trying to make is that I know they don't have to acclimatise to a different country but can anyone seriously see the same sort of fees being charged for equivalent players from the 2nd tier of the leagues in Germany, France, Italy, Spain etc?

 

[Upton_Blade]

I'm not aware of any football team where a DOF has been successful. A manager needs to have control of the players he recruits if only so that he is accountable for the results. Yes some mistakes have been made in recruitment but CW has nearly always recovered any errors by recovering his investment costs.
None of us yet know if the players bought for the premiership will come good later on but clearly due to many different reasons they have not looked value as yet.
I totally agree with CW in asking the Prince to honour the agreed plans, however if he does CW must deliver or a parting of the ways is inevitable before Christmas next season.
A DOF is not the annswer, let the manager manage within agreed parameters.

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