Chris Wilder's position as Sheffield United boss

[guancheblade]

Wouldn’t it be great if EVERY signing came off , I’m sure he bought him with the intention of playing him

But the ratio isn't good at all and there's enough there for the board to question the recruitment strategy.

 

[FriethBlade]

But managed to sign Berge though? It's not just about 'paying premier league wages', which is undoubtedly a factor. It's about recruiting from outside of the English league, which our manager doesn't want to do.

I'd rather my club was stable than just throwing money at it. Both Fulham and West Brom have bigger wage bills than us because they've both been premier league regulars. We can't compete because we've come up quickly from league 1. It's ridiculous to just expect us to match their wage structures straight away. There's a long list of clubs who just paid high wages straight away and it hasn't exactly ended well.

Robbie totally agree...look at Leeds signing of Raphina...he cost less than Brewster and Ramsdale and has made a massive impact. Look at Brentfords record of signing overseas players. In the meantime we sign good old British players who cost more and demand bigger wages

 

[blade_ben]

I think CW has an agenda here.
Despite the Prince's assurance about his future, he may be using the potential loss of "full" control as an excuse to walk into another job in the Prem in the next couple of months. He has had a taste of life at the top and wants to stay there....
CW's name will be high up the list of any Prem vacancy.
UTB

Thing is he won’t get a job in the top 2 divisions that don’t have a DoF/Sporting Director type so

 

[Striker]

I'm not aware of any football team where a DOF has been successful. A manager needs to have control of the players he recruits if only so that he is accountable for the results. Yes some mistakes have been made in recruitment but CW has nearly always recovered any errors by recovering his investment costs.
None of us yet know if the players bought for the premiership will come good later on but clearly due to many different reasons they have not looked value as yet.
I totally agree with CW in asking the Prince to honour the agreed plans, however if he does CW must deliver or a parting of the ways is inevitable before Christmas next season.
A DOF is not the annswer, let the manager manage within agreed parameters.

 

[Big Hitter]

It's the daily mail ffs.
GET TO FUCK.

Well balanced appraisal

 

[Stantheman]

I'm not aware of any football team where a DOF has been successful. A manager needs to have control of the players he recruits if only so that he is accountable for the results. Yes some mistakes have been made in recruitment but CW has nearly always recovered any errors by recovering his investment costs.
None of us yet know if the players bought for the premiership will come good later on but clearly due to many different reasons they have not looked value as yet.
I totally agree with CW in asking the Prince to honour the agreed plans, however if he does CW must deliver or a parting of the ways is inevitable before Christmas next season.
A DOF is not the annswer, let the manager manage within agreed parameters.

Although I think Chris has made mistakes (severe), in terms of transfers and budgets, I think you are bang on. A manager has to manage.

 

[sitwell]

Director of football decides an Armenian version of Adam Reach is what we need. There you go Chris get us into Europe

 

[Chingo]

But the ratio isn't good at all and there's enough there for the board to question the recruitment strategy.

Really , how did we end up in the premier league then ?

 

[guancheblade]

Dane I actually think Wilder may be trying to force the board to sack him as if there no money to build a team to come back up he can see the writing is on the wall and he doesn't want his reputation ruining. Hes got decent reasons for this season's debacle but a poor season next year and he won't have.

However the board don't appear to want to go down this route probably because they know they will massively alienate the fan base and it will cost a lot of money.

Wilder wont walk as not only will he be leaving a lot of.money on the table but it's the livelihood of some of his staff at stake too.

Hence the impasse, I for one hope its sorted and we can push on next season but its starting look like a lot of bridges have been burned. Who will blink first and if nobody does what does that mean for the summer 'rebuild... or should I say dismantling' ?

Possibly but I think Wilder loves the club too much, and he'll still be better equipped at mounting a promotion challenge than the season we actually achieved it!

What doesn't sit right with me is that when we were winless and on course to be the worst PL team in history, the Prince went out of his way to privately and publicly give Wilder his full backing, and say he would definitely be our manager next season in the Championship. That's not the dreaded vote of confidence that 99% of managers would have received in Chris' position (any other manager and they are sacked before Christmas). And Wilder responds by airing his cryptic frustrations publicly which only raises more questions.

I know throwing toys out the pram has worked for Wilder very successfully in the past, but I wonder if it might come back to bite him this time.

 

[Big Hitter]

He’s 28 and has a sports and accountancy background. True he’s not experienced in running a club as big as United but he’s not some wet behind the ears kid given a job by his Dad with no business experience.


In 2010, Musa’ad established a leading football academy focusing on the development of youth players. It was also used as a training facility for other football teams in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.[citation needed]

In 2015, Musa’ad was a member of the consultant team, Prince Abdullah Bin Musa’ad Bin Abdulaziz Al Saud had during his time as the President of the General Sports Authority in Saudi Arabia.[citation needed]

In 2016, Musa’ad joined Ernst & Young. He held three positions during his time there: Consultant, Senior Consultant in Strategy & Customer, and EY's Sport & Entertainment Sector Manager at EY MENA Advisory Services.[citation needed]

Musa’ad is the chairman of Sheffield United F.C.[2] and director of K Beerschot VA.

When I was in business there used to be an old saying about people getting promoted to their level of incompetence.......................

 

[guancheblade]

Really , how did we end up in the premier league then ?

Like I said in a previous reply, this roll the dice approach is far less risky in the leagues below. But it's a different ball game in the Prem. There isn't the budget to sign 10 players and see which 5 turn out well cos you're paying 10x more on fees and wages. You sign 5 and the pressure is on to make sure all 5 turn out to be successful.

 

[Andy67]

His only left centre back target went to Liverpool! You think we could offer anywhere near those wages?

And the argument NOT to sign Lingard was probably as compelling as the one to sign him. Ultimately West Ham got involved and even if we were prepared to match wages/fees he was always going to choose them over us which is why I think it's a very petty reason for Wilder to cross swords with the owner. There has to be more to it than that, other wise it makes Wilder look like a mardy git.

Yes he wanted him in close season to which both club and player were amenable, the board wouldn’t stump up the fee. In between start of season and jan the ship had sailed (fact) and he was not happy.

 

[guancheblade]

Yes he wanted him in close season to which both club and player were amenable, the board wouldn’t stump up the fee. In between start of season and jan the ship had sailed (fact) and he was not happy.

Was a fee agreed with Preston in the summer? I don't believe so.

It was a similar situation to Swift. The parent club digging their heels in hoping they'd have a better chance of promotion by keeping their prized asset. Come January Preston had descended to mid table obscurity.

 

[The Crab]

I'd heard that Davies simply didn't fancy coming to us?

 

[BushBlade]

I'm not aware of any football team where a DOF has been successful. A manager needs to have control of the players he recruits if only so that he is accountable for the results. Yes some mistakes have been made in recruitment but CW has nearly always recovered any errors by recovering his investment costs.
None of us yet know if the players bought for the premiership will come good later on but clearly due to many different reasons they have not looked value as yet.
I totally agree with CW in asking the Prince to honour the agreed plans, however if he does CW must deliver or a parting of the ways is inevitable before Christmas next season.
A DOF is not the annswer, let the manager manage within agreed parameters.

Liverpool - Michael Edwards

Man City - Txiri Bigiristain.

 

[Rudders]

I'm not aware of any football team where a DOF has been successful. A manager needs to have control of the players he recruits if only so that he is accountable for the results. Yes some mistakes have been made in recruitment but CW has nearly always recovered any errors by recovering his investment costs.
None of us yet know if the players bought for the premiership will come good later on but clearly due to many different reasons they have not looked value as yet.
I totally agree with CW in asking the Prince to honour the agreed plans, however if he does CW must deliver or a parting of the ways is inevitable before Christmas next season.
A DOF is not the annswer, let the manager manage within agreed parameters.

Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and most of the big clubs that have won trophies in the last few years would be the key counter point to your argument. Football is a huge business now - you may have missed the last 50 years or so, and the idea of one man - a manager controlling everything on the football side has long since been cast by the wayside.

 

[Bladeloyal]

It's all getting a bit tedious,dummy out ,dummy in ,end of the day never piss off the owner of the business you are a paid employee of .doesn't end well . And to be honest being Mardy isn't a great trait .

 

[Rudders]

TBF - I do think Chris Wilder does understand the need to strengthen the club throughout, hence his position and statements he has made about developing the training ground etc. The same goes for the football side. We need to significantly strengthen the football direction, transfers and scouting side of things I would say.
There is no point employing a DOF who would not work well with CW, but if we appointed someone who could work well with him as a team the club would benefit. The number of man hours required to bring in a major transfer is immense (hundreds if not thousands). I have some knoweldge of the Man City set up and they track players for years at almost microscopic levels of detail. They have a committee that ensures they vet all the players in so many different ways. They have all the player liaison staff/interpreters/drivers etc set up. Its a massive, slick machine. We have a trbant in comparison. And Chris Wilder cant do this all, and control every element and I think this is why we end up with players who can tend to go off the rails as we simply havent invested in this. But we need to if we are going to estbalish in the prem...

 

[gordoncharles]

Right, so you just want him to find players that nobody else thinks are valuable, yet are guaranteed to be better than the expensive players.

Yes, nobody thinks that's easy but if or when we're in the Premier League again then it will have to be.

Although a big club, Sevilla has recruited undervalued players for years and years very successfully which is why one of the underlings from there ended up as DoF at Leeds.

Recruitment and coaching is the only way we will able to compete.

 

[Geordie Blade]

Yes, nobody thinks that's easy but if or when we're in the Premier League again then it will have to be.

Although a big club, Sevilla has recruited undervalued players for years and years very successfully which is why one of the underlings from there ended up as DoF at Leeds.

Recruitment and coaching is the only way we will able to compete.

Agreed. As far as I'm concerned, CW is as good as we'll ever get for the 'coaching' part of that. Recruitment is harder, and has to be linked with coaching. If (and I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, nor should it be) CW's coaching methods rely on having tough, gritty players who are willing to graft, then it's no good having a separate DoF who bring in a bunch of fancy-Dan types. The DoF and coach have to be absolutely compatible in their fundamentals and ethos. That's easier said than done of course, and some clubs have had nightmares on that front.

We also know (or at least, I suspect) that CW is very stubborn, and he could be resistant to this approach, threatening to leave if that was the case. If it was a choice between 'good coach + average recruitment' and 'average coach + good recruitment', I think I'd prefer the former. I imagine that other people might disagree though.

 

[Putney Blade]

I don’t see anything wrong with the Princes’ approach. Chris is a great coach and man manager but I’m afraid his dealings in the transfer market are appalling...I don’t buy the transfer ‘target’ scenario, you cut your cloth accordingly and maybe some help in the minefield that is the transfer market is just what he needs...

Source Dailymail lol

"It is understood that the owners are keen for a director of football to take control of recruitment.

They believe his record in that department since they bought he club has not been good enough. "

Ok if this is true then i don't see what the problem is. Maybe the Prince wants to look for foreign players as they're cheaper over the english ones

Wider wants TOTAL charge of football at BDTBL. Not prepared to compromise. He's old school. Takes time / resources to develop foreign recruitment, understandably Wilder defaulted to Championship (as we didn't have a structure in place). What's more, foreign players don't always have the right attitude (ie Moose), attitude /personality is important part to Wilders approach. So, he shops locally in a market he knows and trusts. But, even in this market, we can't afford the very best Championship players. Fulham & Villa can. They have billionaire owners prepared to fund £50k p/w x 4 year deals. We are NOT in this market. So, Wilder has been restricted on who he can buy (lack of structure for recruiting overseas & lack of finance to fund £50k pw players). Not convinced this would change with a Director of Football; and the downside of losing Wilder is FAR greater than any upside of hiring a Director of Football. Don't be silly Prince.

 

[bartman]

Yes he wanted him in close season to which both club and player were amenable, the board wouldn’t stump up the fee. In between start of season and jan the ship had sailed (fact) and he was not happy.

I know someone who is ITK at PNE ( knows what is happening at board level)and I can confirm that your post isn't fact.

 

[Blade1959]

Like I said in a previous reply, this roll the dice approach is far less risky in the leagues below. But it's a different ball game in the Prem. There isn't the budget to sign 10 players and see which 5 turn out well cos you're paying 10x more on fees and wages. You sign 5 and the pressure is on to make sure all 5 turn out to be successful.

True. There lies the problem.We haven’t the budget to sign 10 and see which 5 work out, but we are having to compete with the majority of the premier league clubs who can afford that approach.

 

[Andy67]

Was a fee agreed with Preston in the summer? I don't believe so.

It was a similar situation to Swift. The parent club digging their heels in hoping they'd have a better chance of promotion by keeping their prized asset. Come January Preston had descended to mid table obscurity.

When I meant agreeable I meant to selling him for what amounted to an amount the board were unwilling to pay. The fee was high in terms of his contract expiring but in terms of our signings and Wilder’s knowledge of what was wrong with O’Connell no wonder he wasn’t happy about it to say the least.

 

[Andy67]

When I meant agreeable I meant to selling him for what amounted to an amount the board were unwilling to pay. The fee was high in terms of his contract expiring but in terms of our signings and Wilder’s knowledge of what was wrong with O’Connell no wonder he wasn’t happy about it to say the least.

I don’t know about the swift signing but I know how the Davies one was received!

 

[JackSUFC]

Posted this in the other thread. Doesn’t sound good at all.

 

[gordoncharles]

Agreed. As far as I'm concerned, CW is as good as we'll ever get for the 'coaching' part of that. Recruitment is harder, and has to be linked with coaching. If (and I'm not saying this is necessarily the case, nor should it be) CW's coaching methods rely on having tough, gritty players who are willing to graft, then it's no good having a separate DoF who bring in a bunch of fancy-Dan types. The DoF and coach have to be absolutely compatible in their fundamentals and ethos. That's easier said than done of course, and some clubs have had nightmares on that front.

We also know (or at least, I suspect) that CW is very stubborn, and he could be resistant to this approach, threatening to leave if that was the case. If it was a choice between 'good coach + average recruitment' and 'average coach + good recruitment', I think I'd prefer the former. I imagine that other people might disagree though.

There's no reason why a DoF can't get along with a coach/manager. In normal circumstances that coach would be their own appointee. They should always work in tandem.

As you say, the problem could well be that the current manager will not want to relinquish any of his power.

However, the club needs more expertise in recruitment. There is a change now, though, as it won't be possible to bring in so many EU players and all clubs in the Championship will feel the effects of that.

 

[bypassblade]

I think the Prince is right to think recruitment not been great but they sanction the deals and tip up the lolly, Chris is old school like a lot of us. On saying that even I accept football has moved on and not a fan of DoF but if it frees CW to concentrate on the team, who knows surely he'll still have some input.

I remember a DoF was talked about when I think Warnock was here but never got off the ground, it has to be a 2 way agreement and has to be in the total best interests of the club.

 

[bypassblade]

Posted this in the other thread. Doesn’t sound good at all.

The question is can the relationship be mended, if not then a parting of the ways is inevitable.

 

[Carlton Blade]

I'm not aware of any football team where a DOF has been successful. A manager needs to have control of the players he recruits if only so that he is accountable for the results. Yes some mistakes have been made in recruitment but CW has nearly always recovered any errors by recovering his investment costs.
None of us yet know if the players bought for the premiership will come good later on but clearly due to many different reasons they have not looked value as yet.
I totally agree with CW in asking the Prince to honour the agreed plans, however if he does CW must deliver or a parting of the ways is inevitable before Christmas next season.
A DOF is not the annswer, let the manager manage within agreed parameters.

Every single team in the top 8 of the PL has one. Same for every successful club in Europe