COVID Season Ticket

[Freethinker]

My parents are 77 and have both been part of the Oxford Vaccine trials ,as have quite a few friends who mainly work in the medical profession ,which is my I get so pissed off at people who say they wont have it because its not tested. Only my opinion but they I think they are incredibly selfish ,usually the same people who are moaning about lockdowns, tier systems ,masks ,in fact everything.

If only everyone was like you

 

[Ted Danson]

My parents are 77 and have both been part of the Oxford Vaccine trials ,as have quite a few friends who mainly work in the medical profession ,which is my I get so pissed off at people who say they wont have it because its not tested. Only my opinion but they I think they are incredibly selfish ,usually the same people who are moaning about lockdowns, tier systems ,masks ,in fact everything.

How have they tested what long term (over 6 months) side effects may arise in 2 months? Did anyone have this vaccine over 6 months ago?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Getting back to the point about a Covid Season Ticket or a Covid Pass or a Covid Certificate confirming that a person has had the Vaccine. Posters who feel it's "against their right to choose to not have the vaccine". The businesses who might require a "Pass" have the right to choose as well. They have a right to choose what's best for their business, profit, shareholders, etc. They have the right to choose to (for eg QANTAS) only fly passengers who have a Covid Pass. That's the dilemma. It's not just "one side" who get to say - it's my choice.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

How have they tested what long term (over 6 months) side effects may arise in 2 months? Did anyone have this vaccine over 6 months ago?

Can I put words into your mouth? You're scared of having the Vaccine because you don't think it's been tested enough yet. Am I close? Correct me if need be.
No worries. Sit tight in your (metaphorical) bunker. That's OK. I'll have the Vaccine. I suspect many others will have it. Wait it out. Learn from our experiences. Let us be on the front foot. And get our rounds in first. If/when you're ready have it, or don't. I can't believe you're against other people having the Vaccine. You'll support people making that choice. Surely.
I doubt there'll be Government imposed mandatory vaccination. If that's what's worrying you. And if businesses choose to require a Vaccination to access their goods & services, that's their choice & you'll maybe just have to suck that one up.
I don't believe "we're all that far apart" are we?

 

[Ted Danson]

Getting back to the point about a Covid Season Ticket or a Covid Pass or a Covid Certificate confirming that a person has had the Vaccine. Posters who feel it's "against their right to choose to not have the vaccine". The businesses who might require a "Pass" have the right to choose as well. They have a right to choose what's best for their business, profit, shareholders, etc. They have the right to choose to (for eg QANTAS) only fly passengers who have a Covid Pass. That's the dilemma. It's not just "one side" who get to say - it's my choice.

They do have the right to implement daft ideas that will damage their business yes but lets say 20% of people refuse to get vaccinated. Do you think the owners of loads of businesses and their shareholders are going to vote for a 20% loss of revenue on top of being fucked after the world shutdown? I cant see it myself

I think currently these business are just saying they're going to ban vaccinated people as a form of marketing and virtue signalling. I think many will not actually implement it when they start assessing the size of the job to train their staff on how to check the certs are valid, how to deal with all the angry customers, how to use the governments (most likely faulty) software system that confirms they are vaccinated, how to spot fake certs / software, plus the loss of revenue from non vaccinated customers. Maybe huge companies will implement it but I cant see your everyday shop doing it. I really cant see SUFC having stewards checking every fan when we're back to full capacity and having to scan some sort of card, double check against their ID and a government database, FFS most of the match day staff cant pull a pint or count change. What then happens when the internet goes down and they cant let people in, would they delay a game for that?

Basically its just going to be far too complicated for most business to adhere to properly and most likely not worth their time.

 

[sitwell]

How have they tested what long term (over 6 months) side effects may arise in 2 months? Did anyone have this vaccine over 6 months ago?

Think it was July they started and it runs to next November ,constant monitoring. My Mum obviously hasnt had it as she tested positive last month but my stepdad was negative. Same as my daughter in law and neighbour both nurses.

 

[sitwell]

They do have the right to implement daft ideas that will damage their business yes but lets say 20% of people refuse to get vaccinated. Do you think the owners of loads of businesses and their shareholders are going to vote for a 20% loss of revenue on top of being fucked after the world shutdown? I cant see it myself

I think currently these business are just saying they're going to ban vaccinated people as a form of marketing and virtue signalling. I think many will not actually implement it when they start assessing the size of the job to train their staff on how to check the certs are valid, how to deal with all the angry customers, how to use the governments (most likely faulty) software system that confirms they are vaccinated, how to spot fake certs / software, plus the loss of revenue from non vaccinated customers. Maybe huge companies will implement it but I cant see your everyday shop doing it. I really cant see SUFC having stewards checking every fan when we're back to full capacity and having to scan some sort of card, double check against their ID and a government database, FFS most of the match day staff cant pull a pint or count change. What then happens when the internet goes down and they cant let people in, would they delay a game for that?

Basically its just going to be far too complicated for most business to adhere to properly and most likely not worth their time.

We are clear you arent going to have it ,which although I think you are wrong is your choice ,but why are you so vociferous in trying to persuade others to do the same ,and what would be your way out of this ?

 

[Ted Danson]

Can I put words into your mouth? You're scared of having the Vaccine because you don't think it's been tested enough yet. Am I close? Correct me if need be.
No worries. Sit tight in your (metaphorical) bunker. That's OK. I'll have the Vaccine. I suspect many others will have it. Wait it out. Learn from our experiences. Let us be on the front foot. And get our rounds in first. If/when you're ready have it, or don't. I can't believe you're against other people having the Vaccine. You'll support people making that choice. Surely.
I doubt there'll be Government imposed mandatory vaccination. If that's what's worrying you. And if businesses choose to require a Vaccination to access their goods & services, that's their choice & you'll maybe just have to suck that one up.
I don't believe "we're all that far apart" are we?

Yes, I dont think its been tested enough and to release it to millions of people before it is is dangerous IMO.

No Im not against others having it if they want, Im a complete libertarian. I think people should have the option to put whatever they like it their bodies.

They might not impose a mandatory vaccine but as you point out if all business and such require one then it basically is mandatory. however I think capitalism will soon stop business from only allowing vaccinated people in, money talks and to just blanket ban a sizable percentage of your customers is insane

 

[Ted Danson]

We are clear you arent going to have it ,which although I think you are wrong is your choice ,but why are you so vociferous in trying to persuade others to do the same ,and what would be your way out of this ?

Im not trying to persuade others not to have it. Im strongly against forcibly making people have it or discriminating against those that dont

 

[Ted Danson]

Think it was July they started and it runs to next November ,constant monitoring. My Mum obviously hasnt had it as she tested positive last month but my stepdad was negative. Same as my daughter in law and neighbour both nurses.

My point is all other vaccines have been out in the wild for years and we now know of any dangerous side effects that may arise a year or so after the vaccination. When they make vaccines they study the volunteers for several years after as theres a possibility problems could arise. How do we know that these RNA vaccines dont cause lukemia or some other immune system issue in 25% of people after 18 months?

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

They do have the right to implement daft ideas that will damage their business yes but lets say 20% of people refuse to get vaccinated. Do you think the owners of loads of businesses and their shareholders are going to vote for a 20% loss of revenue on top of being fucked after the world shutdown? I cant see it myself

I think currently these business are just saying they're going to ban vaccinated people as a form of marketing and virtue signalling. I think many will not actually implement it when they start assessing the size of the job to train their staff on how to check the certs are valid, how to deal with all the angry customers, how to use the governments (most likely faulty) software system that confirms they are vaccinated, how to spot fake certs / software, plus the loss of revenue from non vaccinated customers. Maybe huge companies will implement it but I cant see your everyday shop doing it. I really cant see SUFC having stewards checking every fan when we're back to full capacity and having to scan some sort of card, double check against their ID and a government database, FFS most of the match day staff cant pull a pint or count change. What then happens when the internet goes down and they cant let people in, would they delay a game for that?

Basically its just going to be far too complicated for most business to adhere to properly and most likely not worth their time.

I agree. Although Airlines are a good example of where it will be much easier to require a Covid Pass. Much of the infrastructure to check loads of paperwork is already in place in that industry. For myself, when Pubs reopened, one near me had quite strict & severe "rules". And I felt much safer in there than in the "anything goes" gaffs. I actively sought out places where the rules were clearly in place & being enforced. If you like, I chose to give my business to pubs which were very conservative viz Covid. I stopped going to a lot of places which I'd previously enjoyed, but were taking the piss. I can only be honest. I didn't & don't miss them. Similarly, I'll be banging the fucking door down of any pubs which require vaccination in the future. Out of choice. Non Vax punters will not want the hassle of the paperwork, so they won't be bothered. There's room for all.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Yes, I dont think its been tested enough and to release it to millions of people before it is is dangerous IMO.

No Im not against others having it if they want, Im a complete libertarian. I think people should have the option to put whatever they like it their bodies.

They might not impose a mandatory vaccine but as you point out if all business and such require one then it basically is mandatory. however I think capitalism will soon stop business from only allowing vaccinated people in, money talks and to just blanket ban a sizable percentage of your customers is insane

Yeah roughly same page. My choice. Your choice. The market chooses. Thing is. There's no chance of a business saying - only if you've NOT been vaxxed. So, I'm not worried about the market. You see that point right?

 

[Ted Danson]

I agree. Although Airlines are a good example of where it will be much easier to require a Covid Pass. Much of the infrastructure to check loads of paperwork is already in place in that industry. For myself, when Pubs reopened, one near me had quite strict & severe "rules". And I felt much safer in there than in the "anything goes" gaffs. I actively sought out places where the rules were clearly in place & being enforced. If you like, I chose to give my business to pubs which were very conservative viz Covid. I stopped going to a lot of places which I'd previously enjoyed, but were taking the piss. I can only be honest. I didn't & don't miss them. Similarly, I'll be banging the fucking door down of any pubs which require vaccination in the future. Out of choice. Non Vax punters will not want the hassle of the paperwork, so they won't be bothered. There's room for all.

Yes, the airlines will be the test case basically. I've got a feeling Ryanair will never make it mandatory though, either that or you'll have to pay an extra £25 for not having one. Unless the vaccine rule is an airport rule rather than a carrier rule

The first thing they need though is a database of anyone whos been vaccinated and link it all up with all the various places you could get vaccinated. Havent the government already pissed away billions over the years on failed NHS databases? Even if they did make a successful one it would take them years at the rate they do things and then probably still be flawed.

Pubs is an interesting one, from what I hear they operate on tiny margins these days, while a few might seek out certain pubs for their vaccine rules I think the reality would be customer numbers down across the board and loads of pubs going bust. Also I think they would just stop checking after a couple of months. Ive been in pubs just before the lockdown and theyd stopped taking people details already

 

[Ted Danson]

Yeah roughly same page. My choice. Your choice. The market chooses. Thing is. There's no chance of a business saying - only if you've NOT been vaxxed. So, I'm not worried about the market. You see that point right?

Yeah I see your point and we're not far away

I think we both think it should be a choice but then we have differing opinions on where these choices will take us

my view is a pub which says no to vaccinated people will lose more business than those that dont, same with all businesses really.

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Yes, the airlines will be the test case basically. I've got a feeling Ryanair will never make it mandatory though, either that or you'll have to pay an extra £25 for not having one. Unless the vaccine rule is an airport rule rather than a carrier rule

The first thing they need though is a database of anyone whos been vaccinated and link it all up with all the various places you could get vaccinated. Havent the government already pissed away billions over the years on failed NHS databases? Even if they did make a successful one it would take them years at the rate they do things and then probably still be flawed.

Pubs is an interesting one, from what I hear they operate on tiny margins these days, while a few might seek out certain pubs for their vaccine rules I think the reality would be customer numbers down across the board and loads of pubs going bust. Also I think they would just stop checking after a couple of months. Ive been in pubs just before the lockdown and theyd stopped taking people details already

I want the Vaccine
I want as many others as possible to have it
I will think very bad of those who actively & consistently agitate for others not to have it (the true anti Vaxxers)
I will think oh FFS of those who quietly & privately choose not to have it
I would prefer to support businesses that make me feel safer, maybe that require the Vaccine
But, that's a business choice they'll have to make
And if it doesn't map out that way, I'm comfortable with that - I'll shop with them

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

What misinformation? Information not going with the flow you mean

I am referring to deliberate misinformation, as opposed to different opinions, making honest mistakes, etc. The Internet has made it easy to spread misinformation in minutes, and once circulated, it is difficult to dislodge. There can be widely different motives, from pranks to money to political power. The clearest example is Trump, who says contradictory things within days, and then claims anything negative about him is fake news. Or if you run an unsuccessful small restaurant, you put in a review of your neighbouring rival saying you don’t necessarily believe the rumour that they have rats in the kitchen... And if you believe God is against vaccines, you can just claim that they are going to microchip us all with the jab - job done. Very different from - quite reasonably - questioning authorities.

 

[Freethinker]

I want the Vaccine
I want as many others as possible to have it
I will think very bad of those who actively & consistently agitate for others not to have it (the true anti Vaxxers)
I will think oh FFS of those who quietly & privately choose not to have it
I would prefer to support businesses that make me feel safer, maybe that require the Vaccine
But, that's a business choice they'll have to make
And if it doesn't map out that way, I'm comfortable with that - I'll shop with them

Fair enough and I am totally not with you on any of the quotes

 

[Freethinker]

I am referring to deliberate misinformation, as opposed to different opinions, making honest mistakes, etc. The Internet has made it easy to spread misinformation in minutes, and once circulated, it is difficult to dislodge. There can be widely different motives, from pranks to money to political power. The clearest example is Trump, who says contradictory things within days, and then claims anything negative about him is fake news. Or if you run an unsuccessful small restaurant, you put in a review of your neighbouring rival saying you don’t necessarily believe the rumour that they have rats in the kitchen... And if you believe God is against vaccines, you can just claim that they are going to microchip us all with the jab - job done. Very different from - quite reasonably - questioning authorities.

The government spreads deliberate misinformation on a daily basis

 

[cmbillm]

my view is a pub which says no to vaccinated people will lose more business than those that dont, same with all businesses really.

Restaurants and Pubs and even Airlines that allow all in, rather than only allowing those with a vaccination certificate in, will lose far more custom because a good proportions of the 80% who have had a vaccine will probably bypass those businesses...by exercising their free choice.

 

[Freethinker]

Restaurants and Pubs and even Airlines that allow all in, rather than only allowing those with a vaccination certificate in, will lose far more custom because a good proportions of the 80% who have had a vaccine will probably bypass those businesses...

Why would they won't they feel safe!

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Yes, I dont think its been tested enough and to release it to millions of people before it is is dangerous IMO.

No Im not against others having it if they want, Im a complete libertarian. I think people should have the option to put whatever they like it their bodies.

They might not impose a mandatory vaccine but as you point out if all business and such require one then it basically is mandatory. however I think capitalism will soon stop business from only allowing vaccinated people in, money talks and to just blanket ban a sizable percentage of your customers is insane

Seems like you don’t need to worry, then. In any case, I think enough will have the vaccine for the virus to cease to be a major issue.
As a matter of interest, and it is an unfair question, how would you have reacted as a parent in the 1950s during the polio outbreak? Would you have wanted your kids vaccinated?

 

[sitwell]

If only everyone was like you

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

The government spreads deliberate misinformation on a daily basis

That is a huge statement. There have been huge lies (the 350 million a day comes to mind as Boris’ biggest whopper, though he wasn’t PM at the time); there have been grotesque manipulations of words (e.g. the legality of Cummings’ visit to Barnard Castle); and plenty of attempts to cover up mistakes, etc., etc. They have got things very wrong on a daily basis, in my opinion. But I would need some persuading that they have spread misinformation on a daily basis.

 

[Freethinker]

That is a huge statement. There have been huge lies (the 350 million a day comes to mind as Boris’ biggest whopper, though he wasn’t PM at the time); there have been grotesque manipulations of words (e.g. the legality of Cummings’ visit to Barnard Castle); and plenty of attempts to cover up mistakes, etc., etc. They have got things very wrong on a daily basis, in my opinion. But I would need some persuading that they have spread misinformation on a daily basis.

Facts and figures projected numbers just a few to mention

 

[cmbillm]

Why would they won't they feel safe!

Yes, safe, but to it would a signal of a business that doesn’t care too much for it’s customers... dodgy kitchens, stale beer, unairworthy planes.... I choose Qantas for example because as well as it’s Covid policy it has an unrivalled safety record...

 

[Freethinker]

Yes, safe, but to it would a signal of a business that doesn’t care too much for it’s customers... dodgy kitchens, stale beer, unairworthy planes.... I choose Qantas for example because as well as it’s Covid policy it has an unrivalled safety record...

Anti vaxxers the new leper's eh

 

[SB_90]

Just one thing I will not be a guinea pig for a new vaccine.

can i have your ticket then

 

[Maidenhead]

Who are these people how many are there are they not able to be protected compared to millions who are perfectly safe

My son is one.

That's all I need to know.

Facts and figures projected numbers just a few to mention

Projected numbers are never right, barring the odd fluke.

The clue is in the word projected, what we need is a government with crystal balls.

 

[Freethinker]

My son is one.

That's all I need to know.

Projected numbers are never right, barring the odd fluke.

The clue is in the word projected, what we need is a government with crystal balls.

Hopefully he'll keep protected and sounds like the vaccine would be good for him I don't dispute people having it if they feel like they need it

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

Anti vaxxers the new leper's eh

I think this thread clearly demonstrates that Anti Vaxxers (as you call them) are not the new lepers, they are the new choosers. And, as other people & businesses make their own choices, those who choose to not have the Vaccine will just have to find a route through. Aren't you looking to blame others for the choice you make? Good S24SU username btw.