Requirements for staying up

[Guesty]

I honestly can't think of much good he's done away from scoring. Like I say, he hasn't laid many on, and he doesn't commit defenders and make space for others. He's always on his heels rather than his toes which makes him slow out of the blocks, and unable to close the long ball down.

As for ward, he flatters to deceive because he is fast and aggressive. He doesn't contribute nearly as much as some seem to think and his ball control when I've seen him this season has been woeful. That said, we've seen him cause a great deal of damage to some defences, something I've never really seen of Evans.

 

[lenners]

Do you think Wardy's 'delivered' this season so far ? Do you think 10 goals in close to 2 seasons is a fair return from him ?

No, I don't think he has but in terms of worrying the opposition, providing a threat and pace he is miles ahead of Evans.
It's funny but we have the big club, big fee syndrome with Evans. People think there has to be something more than what they see with their own eyes week after week because he came from Man City and cost £3m.
It's the inverse philosophy with Walker or Naughton who simply cannot be that good because they came through our ranks.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

It's the inverse philosophy with Walker or Naughton who simply cannot be that good because they came through our ranks.

Which no one on here has ever said.

 

[sheffielder]

I am confused. What has Ward done to not get any gripe here. His control was awful and there was many times he could not beat the full back one on one.
The Evans scuff chance was hardly even a chance. Angle and defender in the way. There was no chance it was going in.
I just wish he would stop moving out of position. He needs to stay central and stop looking for the ball then maybe he will get into better positions.

 

[Guesty]

I am confused. What has Ward done to not get any gripe here. His control was awful and there was many times he could not beat the full back one on one.
The Evans scuff chance was hardly even a chance. Angle and defender in the way. There was no chance it was going in.
I just wish he would stop moving out of position. He needs to stay central and stop looking for the ball then maybe he will get into better positions.

I honestly can't think of much good he's done away from scoring. Like I say, he hasn't laid many on, and he doesn't commit defenders and make space for others. He's always on his heels rather than his toes which makes him slow out of the blocks, and unable to close the long ball down.

As for ward, he flatters to deceive because he is fast and aggressive. He doesn't contribute nearly as much as some seem to think and his ball control when I've seen him this season has been woeful. That said, we've seen him cause a great deal of damage to some defences, something I've never really seen of Evans.

Erm...

There was no chance that chance was going in, because it fell to Evans. To not get a proper shot away was unforgivable, but unfortunately, to be expected.

 

[chipsncake]

I honestly can't think of much good he's done away from scoring. Like I say, he hasn't laid many on, and he doesn't commit defenders and make space for others. He's always on his heels rather than his toes which makes him slow out of the blocks, and unable to close the long ball down.

As for ward, he flatters to deceive because he is fast and aggressive. He doesn't contribute nearly as much as some seem to think and his ball control when I've seen him this season has been woeful. That said, we've seen him cause a great deal of damage to some defences, something I've never really seen of Evans.

The reason you can't think of much good Evans has done is because he hasn't done any. Simples. He isn't even working hard and that is unforgivable.

 

[sheffielder]

Erm...

There was no chance that chance was going in, because it fell to Evans. To not get a proper shot away was unforgivable, but unfortunately, to be expected.

why have you highlighted the things we mentioned about Ward's control yet spoke about Evans?

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

People think there has to be something more than what they see with their own eyes week after week because he came from Man City and cost £3m.

I agree to a certain extent but the flip side is that some people have expected him to be a 30 goal a season player for the same reasons and have been quick to criticise from day one.

To me, the fee is irelevant as it was decided between the clubs. He has scored goals at international level and in this division previously so there's obviously something there. Speed said last week something along the lines that he has the best shot he's ever seen and looks fantastic in training so you have to accept that better judges than me and you can see something in him. Time will tell whether he ever produces it for us and no doubt he's only shown brief glimpses so far but he still has a hell of a lot to learn and I for one think he's worth persevering with.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

Is he a centre-forward Fleety?

You tell me. Whether we're going to pigeon-hole him as a centre forward, winger, right midfielder or whatever, has he delivered on a regular, consistent basis to make him exempt of criticism ?

 

[Trafford]

It doesn't matter whether we're talking about Evans, Ward, Cresswell or Sharp, the reality is that we need a regular goalscorer. Henderson could potentially fit the bill when he returns, if he's on form, but we desperately need someone that can relieve the pressure on the defence - the current odds are that if they don't keep a clean sheet, we'll lose.

 

[mattbianco1]

A new striker is an absolute must.
Offloading Evans would be a godsend and for his own sake he needs to go somewhere else to start again.
Getting someone else to pick up some of his wages would hopefully free up enough but either way we are going to have to get more mobility and goal threat.
In midfield we're going to have to look at getting someone in to play football with Britton. Monty and Ertl is one stopper too many.
The one rider is that those three may work better away from home.
Someone like Tonge who can pass with Britton would help.
At the back Morgs will come back in and you could toss a coin for which of Nozza and Bartley to drop.
Calve looks lightweight but might just squeeze by. Jordan looks steady enough.
A general point about Scunny. That is a genuinely well run football club which puts the likes of us to shame.
And why is it they can take punt on a lower league striker time and time again and we end up with the likes of Chedwyn at a total cost of £4m to £5m?

The title of your thread makes me laugh.

 

[raul]

You tell me. Whether we're going to pigeon-hole him as a centre forward, winger, right midfielder or whatever, has he delivered on a regular, consistent basis to make him exempt of criticism ?

You want people to start climbing into Wardy too now???:thumbdown:

 

[sheffielder]

You want people to start climbing into Wardy too now???:thumbdown:

I think Jim is saying it is unfair for people to put it all on Evans.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

You want people to start climbing into Wardy too now???:thumbdown:

You people??

I don't think it is about slamming our players just wondering why some are held in high esteem and can do no wrong and others are slated.
I don't have a problem with Wardy, even though I don't think he has had a good home game since his return from injury last season. But if you compare the support he gets compared with other players who are slated I think it is a fair question to ask.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

You want people to start climbing into Wardy too now???:thumbdown:

Of course if he deserves it. Not having a go particularly, just pointing out that one gets criticism the other doesn't.

 

[Blade58]

Lenners my good man,

May I take this opportunity to say I agree with every post you've made in this thread re Chedward and Wardy!

Now there's a first

 

[lenners]

Which no one on here has ever said.

Sadly you're a classic example of the syndrome.
Persisting in seeing something in Evans despite the evidence and persistently seeing the opposite with Walker, who I seem to recall you thought should be dropped last season.
In some ways, it's a Sheffield, inferiority complex thing.

 

[lenners]

I agree to a certain extent but the flip side is that some people have expected him to be a 30 goal a season player for the same reasons and have been quick to criticise from day one.

To me, the fee is irelevant as it was decided between the clubs. He has scored goals at international level and in this division previously so there's obviously something there. Speed said last week something along the lines that he has the best shot he's ever seen and looks fantastic in training so you have to accept that better judges than me and you can see something in him. Time will tell whether he ever produces it for us and no doubt he's only shown brief glimpses so far but he still has a hell of a lot to learn and I for one think he's worth persevering with.

A fee of £3m and some of the highest wages in the division is irrelevant?
Maybe in a parallel universe but not to a club £50m in debt.

 

[Guesty]

why have you highlighted the things we mentioned about Ward's control yet spoke about Evans?

Sorry, what?

I think they've both been poor, hence my criticism of the two of them in here. You said 'What has Ward done to not get any gripe here. His control was awful', so I pointed out that I had already had a pop at Ward for his poor control.

 

[lenners]

The title of your thread makes me laugh.

Presumably that's because a team that's scored three goals in seven games and lost two of its three home games 3-0 and 4-0 is far too good to go down.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Presumably that's because a team that's scored three goals in seven games and lost two of its three home games 3-0 and 4-0 is far too good to go down.

You were probably one of the people that was saying we were going to get relegated last season when we had that really bad run around October/November.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Sadly you're a classic example of the syndrome.
Persisting in seeing something in Evans despite the evidence and persistently seeing the opposite with Walker, who I seem to recall you thought should be dropped last season.
In some ways, it's a Sheffield, inferiority complex thing.

Ha you know that isn't true about not seeing something in Walker, and again you obviously can't find anywhere where I've said he isn't a decent prospect.
I suggested he should of been dropped for a game last season because he was making costly errors. I actually said on a few occasions Ched should be dropped last season.

You are just making it up now Lenners unless you can post a link (which you can't). Your pants will catch fire if you don't stop it.

Again I will repeat the statement, no one on here has ever said Walker and Naughton weren't good, you are making it up.

 

[Pollingtonblade]

Agree with Lens point about little teams like Scunny getting decent strikers and playing decent football.

 

[alcoblade]

One moment in the second half summed it up. Someone got clear down the right, near the byline, and pulled it back towards Ched who allowed the centre half to get in first to clear when a sharp, intelligent striker would have been anticipating, on the move and been determined to get there first.

We picked up on exactly this (lack of) move at the time. Added to the list of things he can't do is anticipate the basics. Why people are still excusing his lack of any contribution is beyond me.

 

[alcoblade]

I don't think it is about slamming our players just wondering why some are held in high esteem and can do no wrong and others are slated. .

I'm not sure how you've made the leap from asserting that Evans is evidently rubbish to putting others on pedestals. I can list a bunch of pro's and cons for all of our players. I can list one pro for Evans - he has a hard shot - as those in rows X,Y and Z can testify. And that's where his demonstrated talent ends - and all for a huge resource sapping wage.

UTB

 

[Blade58]

I'm not sure how you've made the leap from asserting that Evans is evidently rubbish to putting others on pedestals. I can list a bunch of pro's and cons for all of our players. I can list one pro for Evans - he has a hard shot - as those in rows X,Y and Z can testify. And that's where his demonstrated talent ends - and all for a huge resource sapping wage.

UTB

He has a distinct lack of movement. An inability to anticipate or gamble. No positional sense. He's average in the air. His first touch often leaves something to be desired. Average pace and he's lazy! Apart from that, as alcoblade says, he does have a good shot on him. Shame there's no direction tho.

A free transfer from Rochdale blinded him last night.

 

[lenners]

Ha you know that isn't true about not seeing something in Walker, and again you obviously can't find anywhere where I've said he isn't a decent prospect.
I suggested he should of been dropped for a game last season because he was making costly errors. I actually said on a few occasions Ched should be dropped last season.

You are just making it up now Lenners unless you can post a link (which you can't). Your pants will catch fire if you don't stop it.

Again I will repeat the statement, no one on here has ever said Walker and Naughton weren't good, you are making it up.

No need to make anything up Bob.
Your attitude and approach to Evans and Walker are completely opposite and I do think it's down to the old smalltime Sheffield thinking.
A strange inferiority complex that one of our own can't be an outstanding prospect who was already the best player we had but that a player who cost £3m from big-time Man City has to be good even though the evidence says the complete opposite.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

A fee of £3m and some of the highest wages in the division is irrelevant?
Maybe in a parallel universe but not to a club £50m in debt.

It's irrelevant in terms of the player's ability and form which is what we were discussing. The pros and cons of the finance is a different matter, not something which should be used to beat the player with.

 

[alcoblade]

It's irrelevant in terms of the player's ability and form which is what we were discussing. The pros and cons of the finance is a different matter, not something which should be used to beat the player with.

Agreed. 5 goals in 42 appearances and displacement of any alternative are the real wounds. His exorbitant fee and wages are just the salt being rubbed in.

UTB

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

No need to make anything up Bob.
Your attitude and approach to Evans and Walker are completely opposite and I do think it's down to the old smalltime Sheffield thinking.
A strange inferiority complex that one of our own can't be an outstanding prospect who was already the best player we had but that a player who cost £3m from big-time Man City has to be good even though the evidence says the complete opposite.

None of the above has come out of my mouth Len and I've never made a comment that Walker wasn't a decent player so it's can't be opposite.
If I said Ched was an outstanding prospect the opposite would be that Walker was shit or something similar to what you said about our young loanee centre half.
You won't find me making such stupid comments writing off players under 23 who aren't going to be close to the final product. I will make constructive comments based on what I see if I think parts of their game needs work. As I have done with both Ched and Walker.