Outgoing? John Lunsdtram

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BrisBlade said:
I understand what you're saying, but given the situation (Lunny wants more game time / money than we are prepared to offer), who doesn't it suit to put him on the transfer list?

PS - Thanks for addressing me as New Member. It's nice to feel welcome.
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The longer you've been a member, the more you know...

Only joking, that was one of the wankerest things I've ever seen on here.
 

ucandomagic said:
Dear New Member

It doesn’t make sense for both parties - we offered him a fucking good new contract and he has repeatedly turned it down. Wilder wanted him - the guys who made him wanted him - and he wanted to milk us dry or walk away.

I think he was just what we need, hard, athletic, 90-minute guy like Bash - and with 2 good feet. But the guy he looks at when he shaves only sees one person, not the people who have put him there.
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What an absolute bell end thing to do just because you don't agree with them.
 
ucandomagic said:
He has been offered another fucking contract and thrown it back in the faces of the people like me who work hard and paid for him to have this chance.

Some of us remember where we come from.
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We are not living in the 70/80/90s..times change..players evolve..we have evolved as a club ....it’s it Warnock the wanker offering contracts with a cut for him ...er no..we have done great out of Lundstram..if he wants to move on...so what ..who cares...we win on Lunny..all ways up...how can people not see that
 
LondonBlade89 said:
Wasn’t it confirmed recently via court papers that McBurnie is on £20k a week as his base salary? There will be bonuses but we’re not big payers in the slightest at Premier League level.

Lundstram is still on his original contract he signed when joining (I think). So even with the promotion bonus I can’t imagine he’s on much more than £10k a week. I think he’s probably looking at doubling that. He absolutely would do elsewhere in the Premier League.
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I've probably mentioned this on other threads but a top footballer's basic wage via PAYE isn't the only part of their salary and is why HRMC are looking so closely at the matter.

The vast majority of players will also have image rights payments included which are paid to a LTD company. These can be as much as 2/3/4 times their basic salary and are paid this way as they then get taxed at the corporation tax rate of 19% instead of the 45% they would under PAYE.

Anyone thinking our highest earner as a Premier League team is on £20k a week is being a tad naive, even as the lowest payers.
 
Upton_Blade said:
I've probably mentioned this on other threads but a top footballer's basic wage via PAYE isn't the only part of their salary and is why HRMC are looking so closely at the matter.

The vast majority of players will also have image rights payments included which are paid to a LTD company. These can be as much as 2/3/4 times their basic salary and are paid this way as they then get taxed at the corporation tax rate of 19% instead of the 45% they would under PAYE.

Anyone thinking our highest earner as a Premier League team is on £20k a week is being a tad naive, even as the lowest payers.
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Cheers for the info. Not so much for calling me naive, but thanks anyway 😂. Will make sure any future salary discussions on here account for both PAYE salary plus image rights and anything else.
 
LondonBlade89 said:
Cheers for the info. Not so much for calling me naive, but thanks anyway 😂. Will make sure any future salary discussions on here account for both PAYE salary plus image rights and anything else.
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I wasn't aiming it at you mate as there's been tons of posts over the last few weeks mentioning that our highest earner is on £20k.

And I said a tad naive 😉
 
CaptainMorgans said:
On the John Lundstram thing, he hasn't been "underpaid for several years" as one poster claimed. He couldn't even get in our team in the Championship for a couple of seasons, second fiddle to Lee Evans. When he did come in, we lost (almost) every game.
Wilder publicly stood by him on this issue & has never had a good relationship with the Radio Sheffield interviewer who questioned whether it was a coincidence ever since.

He had a purple patch at the beginning of this season only, which rightly brought us to the table with the offer of a new deal.
I find it difficult to believe the offer was wholly disproportionate to his value, as so many other players signed up to their offers.

His attitude with coming on and pointedly not celebrating goals and generally seeming a bit arsey speaks to a possible (perhaps probable) mardiness behind the scenes also.
I wouldnt be shocked to hear that he's been moping around at the training ground & generally making noise to other players about what he /they could / should be earning etc... Of course, this last bit is speculation but within reasonable bounds.

From the outside, I think the club has done right by him. Firstly by even giving him a shot at Prem football when most thought he'd be released & possibly end up back in League 1.

If he'd continued his early season form and kept Berge out of the team, then we'd probably have moved closer to his demands... but he didn't / couldn't continue that form.

So what you're left with, is a benchman who has been good for 3/4 months of a 3 year spell at the club, demanding wages clearly in excess of our valuation...
We've subsequently told him, good luck. If you can find that deal then do what's right for you and yours. No hard feelings.
If you can't, we might talk again, but the leverage will be with the club and not the agent.
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i do disagree with elements of this but rate how balanced it is. I would put forward that pretty much all our players are underpaid comaprared to there competitors and those at the lower end would feel more pissed considering there involvement (lunny ws an example). We shouldnt be held to randsom agreed but we do need to be competitive if we want to attract and retain the right players.
In a game where careers can only last 10-15 years, loyalty is aligned more with salary than anything else. It would be ridiculous to think otherwise, especially with Heavy agents involvements these days.
 
Kozzy_is_my_Dad said:
This is an important point. I listened to a feature on Talksport last year, it was genuinely the only useful feature I've ever heard on that station. I forgot the guest's name, but he was economist and he presented a model of proportionate wealth.

He argued you only need a certain amount of income to a certain level to bring discernible improvements to your quality of life. Beyond that, and it's just surplus wealth. He was proposing it to the FA as model of financial, ethcial and economical responsibility and sustainability.

Beyond the initial threshold any extra wealth (an extra £1m here and there) per player doesn't bring about meaningful improvements to your life. He's imploring football clubs to come together to be collectively responsible and that extra money which they throw at players could instead be used to benefit their local communities. Interesting idea, would need complete unanimous consent though.

He went as far as to suggest that each division should have a standard annual salary for players. So your Agueros get paid the same as your Lundstrams. Then everything else beyond that is incentive based: appearances, goals, assists, the position your team finishes, cup wins etc. So the truly successful receive the recognition that they deserve and those who are intent on being big earners have to work for it, and the bigger clubs can still tout for those sought after players i.e. "come to us, you're more likely to win, so you'll earn more".
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The US has recognized what a big business top sports are. Not just from a salary point of view, but in terms of advertising, sponsorship, image rights and endorsements. There are any number of revenue streams for clubs and players.
The American business has recognized that the only thing they can exercise control over, is players wages. Hence the salary cap.
Given the high weekly sums thrown around the top european leagues and tax avoidance schemes in different locations, a salary cap is the only answer.
While clubs are legally required to publish accounts annually, there is some potential in FFP rulings, provided the investigation of breaches is done by professional forensic accountants. (Are you listening FIFA/UEFA?)
A realistic salary cap must eventually be applied, otherwise, the big clubs will eventually sweep all before them, and lesser clubs will fail and have no voice in how the game is run.
Easier said than done, but the alternative is the death of association football as we know and love it.
Would we really prefer a relatively small number of very highly paid footballers dragging the game down, or the opportunity for some of the wealth generated by football, to deliver beneficial funding for local community football club projects?
 
There is something seriously wrong with the game, when a player gets paid 600k a week for two years, and he doesn’t even play the game!
Under current terms and conditions of his contract, he is fully entitled to do that, and I don’t blame him for it. GLTTL.
It does make a mockery of our sport though.
 
I don't think this is as black and white as it seems. Think about it, Lunny was always likely to earn less than Norwood and Fleck as he never featured in the promotion winning team like they did. Since then he has (arguably) matched both with his performances, goals etc. this season in the big Mesters league. He's since seen both Norwood & Fleck sign better deals and as regular first teamers for 2 seasons I would think their deals are way in front of what Lunny is being offered. We then bring in Sander who is also commanding a much bigger wage so I don't blame him if this is the case, he should be earning pretty much the same as the others based on performances in the EPL. I doubt it very much that Lunny is asking for more than anyone else, maybe even not parity but something in between.
 
I could only see us offering him similar terms to players with similar play time in our squad and if that isn't good enough for him he can bugger off and go somewhere willing to pay over the odds for him.
 

John Lundstrum will only be a squad player which ever premiership club he joins,he is not good enough to be nailed on first choice.His best option is to move for the cash while his stock is high,he is easily replaceable.
 
'Doc' Pace my hero said:
John Lundstrum will only be a squad player which ever premiership club he joins,he is not good enough to be nailed on first choice.His best option is to move for the cash while his stock is high,he is easily replaceable.
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He was good enough to start 25 games for us last season and we finished top 10
 
It doesn't really matter if we think he will be a Premier League regular or not. It's been obvious since Christmas that he's no longer a regular for us.

I don't blame him for leaving and I don't blame the club for not offering him a deal that matches our first team players. Lundstram might only be a squad player elsewhere but he will likely get more money than being a squad player here.
 
Roygbiv said:
It doesn't really matter if we think he will be a Premier League regular or not. It's been obvious since Christmas that he's no longer a regular for us.

I don't blame him for leaving and I don't blame the club for not offering him a deal that matches our first team players. Lundstram might only be a squad player elsewhere but he will likely get more money than being a squad player here.
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Absolutely,spot on.
 
Weneverscorefromcorners said:
He had a purple patch, it happens. He is very limited and wherever he ends up that will quickly become apparent to there staff and fans.
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I can't agree with this. He is a very solid defensive unit. Rarely caught out of position yet gets forward often and has a hard accurate shot in both feet. Has the vision and ability for long passes that turn defences. I believe we will greatly miss Lunny's contributions if he does go.
 
vas borbokis said:
I can't agree with this. He is a very solid defensive unit. Rarely caught out of position yet gets forward often and has a hard accurate shot in both feet. Has the vision and ability for long passes that turn defences. I believe we will greatly miss Lunny's contributions if he does go.
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Agreed. He’s only 26 so has a few years left in him before the so called peak of a footballer. I think he will go on to become a solid player in the Prem.
 
What’s the fee then? Is his plan to “Do a Bale” and just see out his last year? If he has no interest in signing I’m not sure CW is the type of manager that will play him regardless.
 
'Doc' Pace my hero said:
Until Sander Berge arrived !!
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And then everyone was saying why’s sander berge playing In lundstram position when that’s not his position.

If your lunny and you’ve started the seaon on fire then we sign someone and play him in your position in. Square peg round hole just go accommodate him.

Then you got offered less than what you’d expect he has every right to want find another club who’ll pay him the going rate IMO
 
vas borbokis said:
I can't agree with this. He is a very solid defensive unit. Rarely caught out of position yet gets forward often and has a hard accurate shot in both feet. Has the vision and ability for long passes that turn defences. I believe we will greatly miss Lunny's contributions if he does go.
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We won't miss his contribution after lockdown he was terrible just didn't look bothered.
He looked Ok Pre lockdown chipped in with a few goals, but he is basically a squad player could never really see him as a starter.
We have made him an offer he doesn't want to accept it for whatever reason so we sell him.
I wish him well and Good luck but I will not be losing any sleep over him going.
 

Sean Thornton said:
Offer on the table from West Ham, doubling Uniteds offer.
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Apparently the offer includes:
– 2.5x his current wages
– better bonus structure
– full 24/7 access to the Olympic Park facilities
– the offer to petition the government to get him a life peerage, making Lord Lundstram a permanent title

We very understandably aren’t willing to match those terms.
 
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