PL clubs taking furlough payment option

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ZoneManWilf said:
90% of the outrage seems to be people thinking the employees are being screwed, when it's the opposite, their jobs are being safeguarded and their income guaranteed whist they are locked down at home.
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I don't think that's the case at all. I think people are outraged that a premier league football club is using a government bail out, at the tax payers expense.
 

Davalon said:
The disappointment is that the money being claimed from the Gvt for these staff is such a small percentage of our weekly/monthly wage bill that could surely be covered by the club for a few months, when there are huge amounts of businesses who are truly fucked currently.

PR own goal imho.
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I do see this point, but where does the line get drawn?

The players haven't agreed anything with regards a pay cut as yet. So that large income we get is still needed to fund those players wages alongside no gate receipts, no season ticket sales and no match TV money whilst we're in lockdown. It's not a bottomless pit. All businesses need to manage their cash.

The government has placed no restrictions on this scheme with regards company turnover, they are trying to protect jobs where workers may have otherwise been let go or not paid if they are zero hours contracted. It's essentially a nationwide subsidy.

I get there is a morality question when you look at the values in football but the morality of this should be directed to the existing values of TV money, player wages and the like, this scheme should not be the target.
 
Rodley said:
Hate to tell you everyone but I’m pretty sure this is the real Carole Baskin. I’ve seen her drinking in Barry’s pre-match and I’m sure she used to have chips & pineapple fritters at A Salt & Battered. You’d recognise her from her tiger skin gilet.
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I've never seen her in Barry's and I prop that place up pre-match.
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
I don't think that's the case at all. I think people are outraged that a premier league football club is using a government bail out, at the tax payers expense.
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Well according to Twitter we are considering it
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
I don't think that's the case at all. I think people are outraged that a premier league football club is using a government bail out, at the tax payers expense.
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It just seems arbitrary to me to target football clubs. The government hasn't restricted the furlough scheme to small companies. I guarantee all our big multi nationals will be using this scheme and some of their revenue will dwarf PL clubs. The government realised this is affecting all companies and is wanting to protect jobs.

Our TV money and other income has all been assigned and planned for in spending, now there is much less income coming in to support it. Cash pressure will be coming there is no doubt.

I'd expect the outcry to be bigger regarding the fact the player wages haven't been cut yet like they have in some parts of the continent, but it seems more convenient to have a pop at the clubs.
 
TomJonesBlade said:
Admirable, yes. But contextually that's 3% of what she earned in a single year.

She's worth £12billion. If we're talking morals, it's morally questionable whether an individual should possess such wealth.
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Every billionaire is a cunt. I’ve already said this in this exact thread.

That said. Its 10 mil more than She/Peter had to donate, is it not?

Fed up of people spouting bollocks about celebrities/wealthy people ‘only’ donating such and such amount, they don’t HAVE to donate anything. Same with Zuckerberg donating 25m$.
 
ZoneManWilf said:
It just seems arbitrary to me to target football clubs. The government hasn't restricted the furlough scheme to small companies. I guarantee all our big multi nationals will be using this scheme and some of their revenue will dwarf PL clubs. The government realised this is affecting all companies and is wanting to protect jobs.

Our TV money and other income has all been assigned and planned for in spending, now there is much less income coming in to support it. Cash pressure will be coming there is no doubt.

I'd expect the outcry to be bigger regarding the fact the player wages haven't been cut yet like they have in some parts of the continent, but it seems more convenient to have a pop at the clubs.
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All those companies won't have a stupid % of their turnover going on wages to a small select group of staff though.
 
Akinbiyi said:
The owner of a gambling site is rich, fucking hell, strike me dead.

But yeah, that's from December last year, hardly relevant with what's going on here and now in any way - is it? And what Stoke have done regards to donating to the NHS to the tune of 10mil and paying their staff 100% of their wages can only be described as admirable and the proper thing to do.
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Stoke haven't given £10m. Thats the Denise Coates foundation.
 
Tarqs said:
I've never seen her in Barry's and I prop that place up pre-match.
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Couldn’t miss her - chain drinking Guinness punch from 12 bells follow by a crafty toke around the bottom of the flats at the back. Then a pre-match ride past The Sheldon and CCC on her bike.


56CA436B-D3EE-40B2-89EF-96972BF4175A.jpeg
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
I don't think that's the case at all. I think people are outraged that a premier league football club is using a government bail out, at the tax payers expense.
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I bet Sander Berge has paid more in tax after 2 months, than United will claim from this furlough scheme.

We're not talking about businesses that dodge paying tax in this country, football clubs contribute a huge amount of money to HMRC, I think it's a bit unfair to target football clubs for taking a little bit back after contributing billions over the years.
 
ZoneManWilf said:
Isn't that the main problem then?
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err...yes :)
You're right that similar large companies will be looking a furlough - but the thing that sticks in the craw is that football clubs are spending an insane amount of money on wages for a very small amount of their staff then looking to the taxpayer to bail them out paying normal staff on low wages.
Football clubs aren't like "proper" businesses; they operate in their own world, we accept as businesses they are essentially basket cases but when they are asking the taxpayer to pay for their profligacy, at a time when the general people and communities are generally looking out for each other possibly more than they have ever done since the war, then they can rightly get fucked.
 
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Rodders said:
err...yes :)
You're right that similar large companies will be looking a furlough - but the thing that sticks in the craw is that football clubs are spending an insane amount of money on wages for a very small amount of their staff then looking to the taxpayer to bail them out paying normal staff on low wages.
Football clubs aren't like "proper" businesses; they operate in their own world, we accept as businesses they are essentially basket cases but when they are asking the taxpayer to pay for their profligacy, at a time when the general people and communities are generally looking out for each other possibly more than they have every done since the war, then they can rightly get fucked.
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Average monthly staff 18/19

Football 119
Non football 79
 
Rodders said:
err...yes :)
You're right that similar large companies will be looking a furlough - but the thing that sticks in the craw is that football clubs are spending an insane amount of money on wages for a very small amount of their staff then looking to the taxpayer to bail them out paying normal staff on low wages.
Football clubs aren't like "proper" businesses; they operate in their own world, we accept as businesses they are essentially basket cases but when they are asking the taxpayer to pay for their profligacy, at a time when the general people and communities are generally looking out for each other possibly more than they have every done since the war, then they can rightly get fucked.
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I do get the point, but I wonder why the question about why John Fleck hasn't taken a 30% pay cut over this period is not a higher profile issue than the club maybe using a specifically prescribed government scheme to fund the wages of its office staff who are all locked down at home and not working.

The market drives PL wages. Until we get a better balance to how football cash is funded down through the leagues to grass roots, then we'll always have that situation you describe.

This current lockdown situation just brings it more into focus.

I acknowledge I am separating the furlough and player wages for the convenience of my argument, I get it, but I am worried about some of the scenarios described like 12 months before another live game and the economic impact to football this would mean at all levels.
 
ZoneManWilf said:
I do get the point, but I wonder why the question about why John Fleck hasn't taken a 30% pay cut over this period is not a higher profile issue than the club maybe using a specifically prescribed government scheme to fund the wages of its office staff who are all locked down at home and not working.

The market drives PL wages. Until we get a better balance to how football cash is funded down through the leagues to grass roots, then we'll always have that situation you describe.

This current lockdown situation just brings it more into focus.

I acknowledge I am separating the furlough and player wages for the convenience of my argument, I get it, but I am worried about some of the scenarios described like 12 months before another live game and the economic impact to football this would mean at all levels.
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I have an element of sympathy for the players in this; it doesn't take much for there to be national outrage at footballer's wages and, actually, I genuinely think a sizeable majority of them would easily be willing to donate their money. They've just been thrown right under the bus by their clubs announcing they'll be using the furlough scheme without any consultation with the players first of all. Maybe this probably shows the moral fortitude of the Clubs themselves that they don't even consider this to be an issue but it's resulted in some really bad PR for footballers not of their own making (Jack Grealish aside).
 
Rodders said:
Not sure of your point; we don't have 119 people on min. £20k a week?
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I'm struggling to see where l said we did. Just gave the numbers so those who need to can have less inaccurate guesses.
 
ZoneManWilf said:
It just seems arbitrary to me to target football clubs. The government hasn't restricted the furlough scheme to small companies. I guarantee all our big multi nationals will be using this scheme and some of their revenue will dwarf PL clubs. The government realised this is affecting all companies and is wanting to protect jobs.

Our TV money and other income has all been assigned and planned for in spending, now there is much less income coming in to support it. Cash pressure will be coming there is no doubt.

I'd expect the outcry to be bigger regarding the fact the player wages haven't been cut yet like they have in some parts of the continent, but it seems more convenient to have a pop at the clubs.
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I'm targeting my football club and I care about how it operates. I want it to be a community club, and rather than that just being a buzzword I want it to mean something tangible. I believe our fans and club have never been as close as they are currently and that's one of the main things I think many of us are enjoying at the moment. I feel like it's really and genuinely my club. That's clearly due to many things, success certainly helps, but the club has to operate ethically and fairly in the minds of the fans and decisions like this do have a cost,.
I'm 100% certain lots of companies are using furlough as free money, a lot of which they'll not have to repay because the tax increases that will be brought in to settle this account probably won't touch them. But we do not need to do this and look to the taxpayer to bail out our multi-million pound business.
In short, I expect more for us, and we should be better than this.
 
ZoneManWilf said:
It just seems arbitrary to me to target football clubs. The government hasn't restricted the furlough scheme to small companies. I guarantee all our big multi nationals will be using this scheme and some of their revenue will dwarf PL clubs. The government realised this is affecting all companies and is wanting to protect jobs.

Our TV money and other income has all been assigned and planned for in spending, now there is much less income coming in to support it. Cash pressure will be coming there is no doubt.

I'd expect the outcry to be bigger regarding the fact the player wages haven't been cut yet like they have in some parts of the continent, but it seems more convenient to have a pop at the clubs.
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The several billion dollar one I now work for is considering it for people who have nowt to do for whatever reason.
 
YES Blade said:
I bet Sander Berge has paid more in tax after 2 months, than United will claim from this furlough scheme.

We're not talking about businesses that dodge paying tax in this country, football clubs contribute a huge amount of money to HMRC, I think it's a bit unfair to target football clubs for taking a little bit back after contributing billions over the years.
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I don't see this as a valid point at all. Our players pay a lot of tax on their earnings because they earn a lot and it's the players who contribute to HMRC through taxes not the club. Tax isn't about taking out less than you've put in and paying more in doesn't make you more entitled to take out.
It's quite simple our football club doesn't need to take a little bit back, and yet it's going cap in hand. It's playing the system to it's benefit and that's distasteful.
 
What's concerning is our skipper was in meeting with 20 other captains and couldn't speak etc
 
Flatulent_Bob said:
I don't see this as a valid point at all. Our players pay a lot of tax on their earnings because they earn a lot and it's the players who contribute to HMRC through taxes not the club. Tax isn't about taking out less than you've put in and paying more in doesn't make you more entitled to take out.
It's quite simple our football club doesn't need to take a little bit back, and yet it's going cap in hand. It's playing the system to it's benefit and that's distasteful.
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The club paid almost £3m in social security costs last year. Employers NI etc.
 
We have a romantic view of our own clubs, we want them to be paragons of virtue,

The hard cold facts of day are they are businesses who will do what they have to do to survive.
 

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