PL clubs taking furlough payment option

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ZoneManWilf said:
Just to be clear, the staff in this case won't be affected, they will be getting 100% of their wages from the club, but can't work. The government is allowing a grant of 80% against those wages up to £2,500 per month to help pay the wages and protect those jobs. Same for any company in the country.

The issue people are getting angry about seems to be a moral one, should PL clubs be claiming this grant from the government when we have players on £20k a week and more and we now have a much bigger income stream from TV money.

The player wages is an issue, but it is a separate point than the furloughing of 'normal' staff. The furlough scheme is intended to have staff like our ticket office for example who have nothing to do whilst the lock down is on have their jobs protected.

I do think player wage reductions should be part of this whole approach (furlough won' t affect player contracts). I'm disappointed nothing has come out on this on a wider level from the premier league player base.

Every business has a massive reliance on cash flow, most businesses are run tight no matter what the annual revenues they might be getting, so I can understand why this is being considered by clubs. It's easy to look at headline sky cash and player wages etc, but in practice this isn't how month to month cash will be managed.

What I don't see is anyone in the government applying this morality to the scheme. If the furlough scheme had mentioned that companies receiving 100m plus in TV money are excluded, then fair enough, but they haven't. They are leaving this open to all as they are wanting to help prop up jobs in the short term, although it's a fact that we'll be sorting out the mess for many years.

Probably get battered for this, but I personally don't see why this is such a massive issue. The government is making funds available to protect jobs, and all companies will be considering their options including football clubs. Very shortly cash flow projections for 92 league clubs are going to be hammered because they can't sell season tickets in their normal window. It affects all, including PL clubs, if the lockdown continues and the season doesn't start for say another year, then many clubs are going to the wall, and this might include PL clubs.

These arguments can be applied to any large plc with a multi mullion turnover and cash in the bank, but financial management usually means you run cash tightly, it's inefficient to have large cash reserves, and it's only when an unprecedented crisis like this happens that the system gets broken.

I understand the general points looking at the astronomical player wages and how much money sloshes around from TV, but those were moral issues long before this.
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Brilliant post, this is what I've been trying to say but you've put it in a far better way than I've been able to.
 

Addison said:
Sean Thornton is right to question the authenticity of the poster bearing in mind the sleeper cells the pigs are famous for and others who wish to besmirch the name of SUFC. How is it that a random American Businesswoman suddenly turns up out of the blue on a football forum little known outside of the UK football fraternity. Maybe she should explain how S24su came to her attention before seeking to lecture us on business ethics.

Most new members have the courtesy to introduce themselves and give an explanation of their background and the reasons why they are posting.
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I'm sorry, I didn't believe a formal introduction was custom. Here you are:

I'm Carole Baskin and I own Big Cat Rescue, I'm also an animal rights activist.

Further details about my business, and my life can be found online.

The reason I'm here, well it's a hobby of mine to expand my influence in places outside my comfort zone.
 
Addison said:
Sean Thornton is right to question the authenticity of the poster bearing in mind the sleeper cells the pigs are famous for and others who wish to besmirch the name of SUFC. How is it that a random American Businesswoman suddenly turns up out of the blue on a football forum little known outside of the UK football fraternity. Maybe she should explain how S24su came to her attention before seeking to lecture us on business ethics.

Most new members have the courtesy to introduce themselves and give an explanation of their background and the reasons why they are posting.
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It's a banned ex poster
 
Bert said:
It's a banned ex poster
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Yeah had my suspicions but FF was suggesting we were giving a bad impression if the poster was genuine. The latest post in reply to me confirms it.
 
I am in two minds about this, a PL club probably could and should fund staff wages for at least a short period of time. Although like others have pointed out a club like ours is expecting the remaining TV revenue, final finish league money and season ticket money which makes up a big part of our funding.

Bigger clubs in this league have global revenue streams and I assume should be able to afford to fund their staff much easier than we can. This could just be a move by us to cover the wages of just casual staff on zero hour contracts only as suggested in the Dem Blades article.

If football is postponed much longer we will be looking around to see which football clubs have not gone bust.
 
TomJonesBlade said:
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"I’m unsure as to who is being furloughed. The casual staff are, which for a lot of us is good as we hold zero hour contracts, so otherwise we’d earn nothing. They could have easily done that but chose not to. As far as we are aware, there will be 100 per cent salary."

That’s probably true, but doesn’t really get away from the fact that the club could have opted to pay 100% of the salary (amounting to a relatively small amount of cash) and has instead passed these people on to a government scheme designed to ensure hard-up businesses don’t sack their staff.
 
Carole Baskin said:
I'm sorry, I didn't believe a formal introduction was custom. Here you are:

I'm Carole Baskin and I own Big Cat Rescue, I'm also an animal rights activist.

Further details about my business, and my life can be found online.

The reason I'm here, well it's a hobby of mine to expand my influence in places outside my comfort zone.
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You come across as a complete and utter weirdo. Is that intentional?
 
Carole Baskin said:
I'm sorry, I didn't believe a formal introduction was custom. Here you are:

I'm Carole Baskin and I own Big Cat Rescue, I'm also an animal rights activist.

Further details about my business, and my life can be found online.

The reason I'm here, well it's a hobby of mine to expand my influence in places outside my comfort zone.
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Not really worked out on here though.

Bye.
 
LoughboroBlade said:
"I’m unsure as to who is being furloughed. The casual staff are, which for a lot of us is good as we hold zero hour contracts, so otherwise we’d earn nothing. They could have easily done that but chose not to. As far as we are aware, there will be 100 per cent salary."

That’s probably true, but doesn’t really get away from the fact that the club could have opted to pay 100% of the salary (amounting to a relatively small amount of cash) and has instead passed these people on to a government scheme designed to ensure hard-up businesses don’t sack their staff.
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Its the financial burden of 80% that has been passed to the Treasury, not the employees.
 
LoughboroBlade said:
"I’m unsure as to who is being furloughed. The casual staff are, which for a lot of us is good as we hold zero hour contracts, so otherwise we’d earn nothing. They could have easily done that but chose not to. As far as we are aware, there will be 100 per cent salary."

That’s probably true, but doesn’t really get away from the fact that the club could have opted to pay 100% of the salary (amounting to a relatively small amount of cash) and has instead passed these people on to a government scheme designed to ensure hard-up businesses don’t sack their staff.
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Yeah but for how long? Maybe a month or two but could the club fund them for much longer than that?
 
LoughboroBlade said:
"I’m unsure as to who is being furloughed. The casual staff are, which for a lot of us is good as we hold zero hour contracts, so otherwise we’d earn nothing. They could have easily done that but chose not to. As far as we are aware, there will be 100 per cent salary."

That’s probably true, but doesn’t really get away from the fact that the club could have opted to pay 100% of the salary (amounting to a relatively small amount of cash) and has instead passed these people on to a government scheme designed to ensure hard-up businesses don’t sack their staff.
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Exactly what Sheffield United Football Club will be in a matter of months.
 
Bert said:
If we are going to furlough staff it should be all of them not just the cheap disposable people.
The players can take out payday loans.
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But would that constitute breach of contract? And if it did, would that mean the players could leave the club for nothing?
 

Carole Baskin said:
I'm sorry, I didn't believe a formal introduction was custom. Here you are:

I'm Carole Baskin and I own Big Cat Rescue, I'm also an animal rights activist.

Further details about my business, and my life can be found online.

The reason I'm here, well it's a hobby of mine to expand my influence in places outside my comfort zone.
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1586259987562.png
 
YES Blade said:
Seen as you care so much about morals.........

www.theguardian.com

Bet365 boss Denise Coates hits jackpot with £323m payday

Sum is highest amount paid to British company CEO and 2,000 times Boris Johnson’s salary
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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The owner of a gambling site is rich, fucking hell, strike me dead.

But yeah, that's from December last year, hardly relevant with what's going on here and now in any way - is it? And what Stoke have done regards to donating to the NHS to the tune of 10mil and paying their staff 100% of their wages can only be described as admirable and the proper thing to do.
 
Carole Baskin said:
It's a disgrace, any business taking up this scheme should be ashamed. All staff deserve full pay!
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Think you are way off the mark there with "any business" there are 1,000's of SM sized businesses that will be kept afloat
 
Akinbiyi said:
The owner of a gambling site is rich, fucking hell, strike me dead.

But yeah, that's from December last year, hardly relevant with what's going on here and now in any way - is it? And what Stoke have done regards to donating to the NHS to the tune of 10mil and paying their staff 100% of their wages can only be described as admirable and the proper thing to do.
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Admirable, yes. But contextually that's 3% of what she earned in a single year.

She's worth £12billion. If we're talking morals, it's morally questionable whether an individual should possess such wealth.
 
LoughboroBlade said:
That’s probably true, but doesn’t really get away from the fact that the club could have opted to pay 100% of the salary (amounting to a relatively small amount of cash) and has instead passed these people on to a government scheme designed to ensure hard-up businesses don’t sack their staff.
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That isn't how the furlough scheme works. The employees are not passed on to anything and they don't claim anything.

The employer pays their wages as usual (in this case it seems that 100% is being maintained). Then the company claims the furloughed amount back in the form of a grant.

If this is as it appears, United are paying these particular staff 100% of their wages whilst they do no work (in fact the scheme says specifically that furloughed staff are not allowed to work). Then United apply for the government furlough grants for 80% of that value up to £2500 a month for each employee.

The employees will see no difference other than the fact they can't go to work.

90% of the outrage seems to be people thinking the employees are being screwed, when it's the opposite, their jobs are being safeguarded and their income guaranteed whist they are locked down at home.
 
Carole Baskin said:
I'm a businesswoman and I know how to run an ethical company.
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Ethical in the quote "I'm ok Jack" style then ? - you cannot with your ethics just unethically judge every other business in the same way, it's not ethical
 
Carole Baskin said:
I have a wide array of interests and I strongly object against unethical treatment!
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But you are being unethical in judging every business who uses this leverage as wrong because you do not know those businesses
 
ZoneManWilf said:
That isn't how the furlough scheme works. The employees are not passed on to anything and they don't claim anything.

The employer pays their wages as usual (in this case it seems that 100% is being maintained). Then the company claims the furloughed amount back in the form of a grant.

If this is as it appears, United are paying these particular staff 100% of their wages whilst they do no work (in fact the scheme says specifically that furloughed staff are not allowed to work). Then United apply for the government furlough grants for 80% of that value up to £2500 a month for each employee.

The employees will see no difference other than the fact they can't go to work.

90% of the outrage seems to be people thinking the employees are being screwed, when it's the opposite, their jobs are being safeguarded and their income guaranteed whist they are locked down at home.
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The disappointment is that the money being claimed from the Gvt for these staff is such a small percentage of our weekly/monthly wage bill that could surely be covered by the club for a few months, when there are huge amounts of businesses who are truly fucked currently.

PR own goal imho.
 
Carole Baskin said:
I'm sorry, I didn't believe a formal introduction was custom. Here you are:

I'm Carole Baskin and I own Big Cat Rescue, I'm also an animal rights activist.

Further details about my business, and my life can be found online.

The reason I'm here, well it's a hobby of mine to expand my influence in places outside my comfort zone.
Click to expand...
 

Well anyone who saves cats is ok with me so good on you -but this Farlough programme is not like the American model -
 
TomJonesBlade said:
One wonders which storyline would generate more clicks for The Star's website. Not that I'm suggesting there's any form of ulterior motive whatsoever.
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There's no way Shield went to print with that without the club giving him a sly nod and a wink. Regardless of what people think of The Star, James' job is intrinsically linked to the club. He's not just going to make something up which will cause negative perception on the club, which in turn jeopardises his job. If he's printed this, it's because someone has fed it to him, for whatever reason.
 
ZoneManWilf said:
90% of the outrage seems to be people thinking the employees are being screwed, when it's the opposite, their jobs are being safeguarded and their income guaranteed whist they are locked down at home.
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My anger at this isn’t related to that at all, more that we’re using a scheme that on a very basic level wasn’t really designed with multi-million pound earning Premier League clubs in mind. The more businesses that can afford not to use it but use it anyway, the greater the pressures on not only this scheme but on any decisions taken to extend it.
 

My Dad sent me this....

IMG-20200407-WA0003.jpg

And I had to remind him, that to be fair Nurses are shit at football.
(Quote stolen from Simon Brodkin aka Jason Bent)
 
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