Under 23s

[broomhillblade]

Not doing very well this season. Should we be concerned?

 

[Treeton Blade]

Been really poor all season, one home win, and as bad as it gets last Monday, 0-3 to Hull at half time.

Andrew Hughes and Jack Lester have not improved matters, be interesting if any players parents could give an insight into anything behind the scenes.
It might be all positivity in training, but on the pitch woeful.

 

[Akinbiyi]

Do they play the same system as the first team?

 

[BladeTillIDie]

Not an excuse but i know alot of the better players are out on loan..

Dewhurst
RND
Graham (inj)
Greaves
York
Mallon
Slater
Smith
Parkhouse

 

[Treeton Blade]

Do they play the same system as the first team?

Yes.

 

[Akinbiyi]

Yes.

I think that's probably why they're not getting the results then.
We know from watching the Kean Bryan cup XI that it just doesn't suit some players. And if a few are missing or off it, the whole team suffers.

 

[Deadbat]

Yes they are losing and losing to inferior based clubs most weeks without being snobbish.

We seem to have signed 3 or 4 from Man Utd, Leeds etc who were not deemed good enough for them but they are not exactly standing out for us.

The other lads Broadbent, York, Greaves, Boyes have not really pushed on and our rise has maybe not helped them. All of these have been around u23 level games for a few seasons now but non are really close at all. Not a surprise really but you would expect maybe on to push on but has not happened.

The approach and recruitment is not really working. It's not about results but producing the odd gem that may compete at first team level. We have tried to take players from other clubs a la Brooks but non of those signed look good enough but bits I have seen. I may be harsh/wrong.

The most concerning thing is there is not one player even close to competing for the first team squad even in cup games.

You see lots of Prem teams sending talented youngsters out on loan and many doing well even at Champ level. We have no one except maybe Norrington Davies who is doing ok on loan but Eastwood, Parkhouse, Slater, Smith will prob move on as none were/ are even close to regulars in lower league football. Surprised Parkhouse and Smith were given new deals.

So many great things at the club but the youth set up has gone backwards the last few years from my perspective. Maybe being Cat 2 does not help and maybe our facilities are inferior to most (ironic that Shirecliffe 15vears ago was billed as this state of the art set up but is now almost not fit for purpose and inferior to most Prem League academies/training grounds)

Suppose Lester, Hughes need time but for me a big clear out at u23 level of personnel is needed this summer. We have about 20 young pros or academy 2nd yrs at u23 level and many are not even playing games as new u18s have now come on and started to usurp them. The u18s have been doing much better than the u23s but no idea how many will be retained.

 

[Treeton Blade]

I think that's probably why they're not getting the results then.
We know from watching the Kean Bryan cup XI that it just doesn't suit some players. And if a few are missing or off it, the whole team suffers.

Monday was more desire and attitude, we were miles off it first half, then came roaring back second half.
Hit the bar twice, and did everything but score.

Possibly our best half of the season.

For me, the results are due to the constant changes to the line up, players on loan elsewhere, and a lack of belief amongst them.

 

[Akinbiyi]

Monday was more desire and attitude, we were miles off it first half, then came roaring back second half.
Hit the bar twice, and did everything but score.

Possibly our best half of the season.

For me, the results are due to the constant changes to the line up, players on loan elsewhere, and a lack of belief amongst them.

Yeah, a lot of the 'better' U23's are out on loan also

 

[LarryLargeSwede]

In my opinion, the decision to remove Binnion from his position was a huge mistake. He was a fantastic young coach (one of the youngest in world football with the top level badge) and was turning into an excellent academy manager.
He wanted to develop the young players as individuals as well as footballers, and he agreed with the clubs new principles regarding the style of football we play.
He also had the club at heart, as a fan and former player.
I don't know the reasons why he was removed, but he was well liked at the club by the young players and staff alike. My son went through the system at the Blades while Binnion was in both coaching and management roles and couldn't speak highly enough of him.
He was appointed by McCabe though, and was removed in the summer. Could it have something to do with the new ownership?
Our loss is definately Man Utd's gain.

 

[Mouth of the South]

Those closer to the club and who watch the U23s more may well disagree but I feel a big strategic decision is required wrt the overall purpose of the U23s and the Academy as a whole is required - is it to produce players for the first team, raise revenue for the club by nurturing and then selling or is it something far more wholesome and serve the community and local area and feed local, non league clubs?

Currently, it's doing none of these. The Cat 2 status hampers its ability to recruit top talent who understandably choose Cat 1 clubs instead. As such and also due to the incredible progress of the first team results in the output being a long way off the standard required to regularly feed it nor is it of value sufficient to sell and cover the costs of running the Academy. Unless there's a significant investment and Cat 1 status achieved, I can't see how the gap could be bridged.

The other option would be perhaps to move away from the academy model and instead invest in top young talent in lower leagues / national league, loan them to other clubs to aid their development and see whether they'll grow into the required standard.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

As Deadbat says the main concern is the lack of any young players coming through the ranks, which has been the case for several years now.
Don't know the reasons but it is a failing for a club of our size in a major population centre not to have any talent coming through to the first team.

 

[Akinbiyi]

Those closer to the club and who watch the U23s more may well disagree but I feel a big strategic decision is required wrt the overall purpose of the U23s and the Academy as a whole is required - is it to produce players for the first team, raise revenue for the club by nurturing and then selling or is it something far more wholesome and serve the community and local area and feed local, non league clubs?

Currently, it's doing none of these. The Cat 2 status hampers its ability to recruit top talent who understandably choose Cat 1 clubs instead. As such and also due to the incredible progress of the first team results in the output being a long way off the standard required to regularly feed it nor is it of value sufficient to sell and cover the costs of running the Academy. Unless there's a significant investment and Cat 1 status achieved, I can't see how the gap could be bridged.

The other option would be perhaps to move away from the academy model and instead invest in top young talent in lower leagues / national league, loan them to other clubs to aid their development and see whether they'll grow into the required standard.

What do the categories even mean? Like, what does a cat 1 academy do that a cat 2 can't?

 

[Mouth of the South]

Not an excuse but i know alot of the better players are out on loan..

Dewhurst
RND
Graham (inj)
Greaves
York
Mallon
Slater
Smith
Parkhouse

Good point BTID but will any of these come ever even close to the first team squad? With the possible exception of RND, I can't see any playing any higher than L1 and in most cases, L2, National League or below.

 

[Beans]

As Deadbat says the main concern is the lack of any young players coming through the ranks, which has been the case for several years now.
Don't know the reasons but it is a failing for a club of our size in a major population centre not to have any talent coming through to the first team.

I'd suggest that Brooks, Calvert-Lewin and Ramsdale would all be in our first team if finances hadn't dictated that we sell them.

 

[BladeTillIDie]

Good point BTID but will any of these come ever even close to the first team squad? With the possible exception of RND, I can't see any playing any higher than L1 and in most cases, L2, National League or below.

True, but i don't remember many rating Calvert-Lewin much and he didn't really score many goals for the u23s and loans out.

RND will be Enda Stevens's next replacement possibly..

 

[Mouth of the South]

What do the categories even mean? Like, what does a cat 1 academy do that a cat 2 can't?

Probably easier for you to pick the key points out of this doc rather than me try to explain in my ineloquent style.

https://www.efl.com/contentassets/bb22b19c764b4c9b9b164e8d3fdb1ec7/efl-youth-development-charter-for-players-and-parents-guide-2019-20-e-book.pdf

 

[Deadbat]

Sheffield United FC

The place to get all your Sheffield United news on the first team, academy and Sheffield United Women. Download the app via the App Store and Google Play Store

www.sufc.co.uk

40 players here...some are u18s of course but 40!!!

Some of these have been have been around the u23s for a few seasons...Sheppeard,York, Amissah, Ferguson, Graham, Gordon, Boyes, Broadbent, Greaves etc

Likes of Mallon been here forever

 

[Pobby1012]

I wouldn't mind going to watch a few actually. They still play at Chesterfield ?

 

[Pedro's Winger]

I'd suggest that Brooks, Calvert-Lewin and Ramsdale would all be in our first team if finances hadn't dictated that we sell them.

Brooks wasn't local and DCL and Ramsdale were sold three or four years ago now.
I think it's the reality that we haven't had anyone sniffing around the first team squad for a while that's the issue and a city the size of Sheffield should be doing better.
No real reason why we should be behind the likes of Liverpool, Leeds, Newcastle, Manchester etc

 

[Harrisblade]

Not doing very well this season. Should we be concerned?

In general, how old are our U-23's compared to other clubs?

 

[Beans]

Brooks wasn't local and DCL and Ramsdale were sold three or four years ago now.

Are there Sheffield-born footballers that have come through other academies in the last few years that you feel we've missed out on?

To be honest the fact that we've produced a range of Premier League-quality players in the last 10 years (including the two most expensive defenders in the world at the time) is remarkable. As of the end of 2018/19, United were 6th for Premier League minutes played by academy products - more than Liverpool:


Yes, it's "only" 6 players - but again, that's the same as Liverpool. I'd guess it'll be similar this season, with Calvert-Lewin and Ramsdale's increased importance to their teams replacing the minutes Brooks has lost due to injury. (You can also add Sharp's minutes to that, but that's not really the purpose of this discussion)

It might be a lean run at the minute in terms of youth players who are ready for Championship-level football and above, but given how fast the club has progressed, is anyone really surprised? If we were still midtable in League One then Norrington-Davies and probably a couple of others (Smith? Eastwood?) are in and around the first team. It's a safe assumption that none are going to be as good as Calvert-Lewin or Brooks have turned out to be but then... not many are.

Edit: Final thing. We were a league one team for six years, and actually getting progressively worse season by season. We were not an attractive destination for any young footballer during this time. We now are, with things as good as they've been for a long time, on and off the pitch. If we're still having this conversation in a couple of years, I'd be more concerned - but it's going to take time.

 

[BushBlade]

Not doing very well this season. Should we be concerned?

Probably, just on the basis that the first team is doing great so we haven’t got much to whittle about.

 

[BushBlade]

Are there Sheffield-born footballers that have come through other academies in the last few years that you feel we've missed out on?

To be honest the fact that we've produced a range of Premier League-quality players in the last 10 years (including the two most expensive defenders in the world at the time) is remarkable. As of the end of 2018/19, United were 6th for Premier League minutes played by academy products - more than Liverpool:

View attachment 72002
Yes, it's "only" 6 players - but again, that's the same as Liverpool. I'd guess it'll be similar this season, with Calvert-Lewin and Ramsdale's increased importance to their teams replacing the minutes Brooks has lost due to injury. (You can also add Sharp's minutes to that, but that's not really the purpose of this discussion)

It might be a lean run at the minute in terms of youth players who are ready for Championship-level football and above, but given how fast the club has progressed, is anyone really surprised? If we were still midtable in League One then Norrington-Davies and probably a couple of others (Smith? Eastwood?) are in and around the first team. It's a safe assumption that none are going to be as good as Calvert-Lewin or Brooks have turned out to be but then... not many are.

I agree with that but would point out RND is only 20 and is a L1 regular already. It’s taken DCL ages to develop into the player he is now, I’m not writing off RND just yet.
Things can change very quickly and it looks like our current crop at u18 level are pretty good. It’s only 18 months since we sold Brooks and already people are saying the academy is failing.

 

[Hilly]

Brooks wasn't local and DCL and Ramsdale were sold three or four years ago now.
I think it's the reality that we haven't had anyone sniffing around the first team squad for a while that's the issue and a city the size of Sheffield should be doing better.
No real reason why we should be behind the likes of Liverpool, Leeds, Newcastle, Manchester etc

And that is why TB and his 2 lead coaches were moved on.
Rightly or wrongly.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

Are there Sheffield-born footballers that have come through other academies in the last few years that you feel we've missed out on?

To be honest the fact that we've produced a range of Premier League-quality players in the last 10 years (including the two most expensive defenders in the world at the time) is remarkable. As of the end of 2018/19, United were 6th for Premier League minutes played by academy products - more than Liverpool:

View attachment 72002
Yes, it's "only" 6 players - but again, that's the same as Liverpool. I'd guess it'll be similar this season, with Calvert-Lewin and Ramsdale's increased importance to their teams replacing the minutes Brooks has lost due to injury. (You can also add Sharp's minutes to that, but that's not really the purpose of this discussion)

It might be a lean run at the minute in terms of youth players who are ready for Championship-level football and above, but given how fast the club has progressed, is anyone really surprised? If we were still midtable in League One then Norrington-Davies and probably a couple of others (Smith? Eastwood?) are in and around the first team. It's a safe assumption that none are going to be as good as Calvert-Lewin or Brooks have turned out to be but then... not many are.

Edit: Final thing. We were a league one team for six years, and actually getting progressively worse season by season. We were not an attractive destination for any young footballer during this time. We now are, with things as good as they've been for a long time, on and off the pitch. If we're still having this conversation in a couple of years, I'd be more concerned - but it's going to take time.

I'm surprised a city the size of Sheffield isn't producing talent every year to be honest. It's been even worse with the porkers.
Not sure the league has anything to do with it as DCL and Ramsdale both came through while we were in the 3rd division.

 

[Bergen Blade]

I wouldn't mind going to watch a few actually. They still play at Chesterfield ?

A couple of remaining games will be at Bramall Lane:



I'm considering going to the game vs the pigs, played the night before we play Norwich.

 

[Wards]

I'm not sure you can really judge Lester in the short term - this is a part of the club that has to have more long-term targets than any other part of it. You can't just go out and sign 5 or 6 new players at the drop of a hat.

I think it's been touched upon previously but we seem to have a lot of triallists through the doors and often just pitch them straight into the u23s which is neither particularly good for them but more importantly it must create little continuity for our own lads.

Be interesting to see how we fare in a few years given we'll be attracting the regions better talent.

 

[BushBlade]

I'm surprised a city the size of Sheffield isn't producing talent every year to be honest. It's been even worse with the porkers.
Not sure the league has anything to do with it as DCL and Ramsdale both came through while we were in the 3rd division.

But they joined us when we were in a higher league. How many young kids from the Sheffield area have chosen one of the Manchester academies over ours in the last few years? And what percentage of the academy players at the Manchester clubs are actually from Manchester?

I agree in principle though, there shouldn’t be any reason why we can’t develop young players, or attract them to the club, once we upgrade the academy.

 

[Pedro's Winger]

But they joined us when we were in a higher league. How many young kids from the Sheffield area have chosen one of the Manchester academies over ours in the last few years? And what percentage of the academy players at the Manchester clubs are actually from Manchester?

I agree in principle though, there shouldn’t be any reason why we can’t develop young players, or attract them to the club, once we upgrade the academy.

DCL and Ramsdale signed up when we were in the 3rd division.
Don't know about Man City but Man Utd have a pretty good record at bringing young local players through. Isn't Williams the latest local success story for them?