VAR killing the game

[Sheffsteel]

I like the concept of a pancea but our version is like Boris's Brexit paln. Flawed. It's a waste of space so either use it properely or scrap it.

To be fair if “no deal” is taken off the table then every single Brexit plan is flawed. The EU don’t want us to leave, so there’s no reason for them to seriously negotiate, in order to prevent us leaving they only need to offer an appealing/ unacceptable deal.

Regards VAR I knew this would happen. Virtually every fan, player and manager is biased.
Even when VAR proves a player is offside by 3 inches, many managers still complain that it’s such a small amount, so should have been allowed.
I don’t see VAR as this idea of perfection and still expect controversial decisions regards opinion based stuff.
However the facts show that VAR gets more decisions correct then pre VAR, so surely that’s a positive.
The main down side is the retrospective and delayed disallowing of a goal.

One big advantage though of VAR is the improvement in dissent, intimidating. crowding the ref.

 

[Bladesway]

That’s what VAR will do; every goal is checked and it will automatically disallow a goal scored if it comes off an attacker’s hand during the build up. It will not automatically give a penalty or penalise a defence if the defender handballs it.
Maybe the pundits know more than you?

Apparently this is the law. Which if the case is ridiculous. But you cannot blame VAR for upholding a shit law.

 

[gordoncharles]

AS TV coverage became more sophisticated, slow motion replays from multiple camera positions crept in and with the increased use of "expert"analysis by pundits, refereeing decisions were regularly shown to be incorrect.

Even that's another false reason for using it.

How many times do you hear the studio pontificators say "if you look at it from that angle it doesn't look like a foul, but from the other angle it does.." A lot.

So which angle are you going to use? Refereeing errors, though more than frustrating to us all, are a lot fewer than is given the impression.

Just like everyone thinks free kicks just outside the box are more dangerous than they really are, so it is with bad refeereing decisions.

 

[Bladesway]

It’s absolutely awful. ‘The game’s gone’ is such an overused phrase but with VAR I genuinely think it will be. In 10 years we’ll look back on football and say ‘remember when it was good?’

A ‘goal’ will eventually be celebrated more like a penalty being given and scored. A muted ‘yessss’ when it goes in and it’s almost a formulaic ‘yess’ when the man in the shed behind the net confirming it. A goal going in without the euphoria of an actual goal, if you will. You aren’t going to get players knee sliding and throwing their shirt into the crowd once the ‘VAR CHECKING DECISION’ screen goes green.

There are (the vast majority of decisions) that are completely subject to interpretation. The answer isn’t ‘go to another referee with another interpretation’.

The refs do a usually fantastic job and always have. The people who can’t take 5 or 6 wrong decisions going against them a season have thrown their toys out the pram and have taken the game with it.

Don’t mistake this as ‘for the greater good for the fans’, this isn’t for the fans. This is for SkySportsTV. Reality football TV. No regard for the season ticket holders in the ground, it’s for more drama on tv and the people that have only followed the game on tv are lapping it up looking at 40,000 replays in HD while the fans in the ground are trying to get 4G to see what’s happening. There’s a reason that it’s not in the championship or league one or two, because the tv demand isn’t there for those games. They matter less.

Did anyone see Neves’s goal against Man Utd this season? Absolute screamer. The roof came off the stadium. Then everything stopped because VAR was looking for any excuse to disallow the goal. The wolves gaffer even said after the game ‘I’m seriously afraid we aren’t going to be able to celebrate goals any more. It’s a huge shame’. Ronaldo even didn’t celebrate his goal recently for Juve and told the fans to ‘calm down’ while running away in protest at VAR. that’s probably the most decorated player ever to put boots on against it. And juve have had their fair share of gifts from VAR in the last 2 years.

Another thing is that the referee or VAR official uses their own discretion to determine how far back to go in the build up to a goal to see what’s relevant to the build up. If the left back swears under his breath at the ref in the build up to a goal 90 seconds before a goal has been scored, if the ball hasn’t gone out of play, that’s dissent and a foul. Basically, it’s still down to interpretation. If a ref wants to disallow a goal, he can for that. ‘We want more correct decisions’ well that would be a correct decision. I know that’s an extreme example but where do you draw the line?

We are also limited by technology. A video is only still images at a very high rate per second put together to form a video. The cameras aren’t THAT fast that they can keep up with everything. Things will be missed. Remember the handball for City’s goal against Spurs? If that had hit his hand 0.001 seconds before or after, it wouldn’t have been picked up. Is that not a foul then? There are so many grey areas.

Before anyone says I am bias due to United being stitched up today, I would genuinely take relegation for united if it meant VAR was scrapped forever. We can rebuild. Football can’t. Everyone reading this has, I assume, loved football all their lives. Why the fuck are we changing football so drastically for no tangible benefit? I’ve heard people say ‘I’m pro VAR, if it means the RIGHT decision then I don’t care, make as many changes as you like’ but count me out of that. I’d rather have twice as many mistakes and keep the euphoria of Bashams goal against Leeds or brownys volley against the pigs ANY DAY. Plus, VAR has already admitted they have made 4 mistakes on disallowed goals so far this season. And that’s just what they’ve admitted to, and they’re very bias towards VAR. Basically, more cameras won’t solve interpretation decisions.

Please, please, please, stop this fucking shit. Not to sit on the fence or anything: I’m not a fan.

How many VAR goals have we had overturned in our first 5 games?

 

[1889]

What’s killing football as a spectacle and what causes VAR reviewers to get obvious decisions hopelessly wrong is the rule makers.
Sadly the rules as they stand are far too reliant on ‘interpretation’ and bear no similarity to the original rules.
This gives referees licence to pretty much do as they like and justify it to their critics.
I’m my opinion the rules as I remember them, would stop all the ambiguity.
If the ball hits your hand accidentally and consequently the ball bounces to your teams advantage, it’s handball.
If there are not two opponents between you and the goal when the ball is played forward by a teammate it’s offside.
If you shield the ball but it is not within reach of your feet, it’s obstruction.

I’m sure they’re many others but that would do for starters

 

[JohnDenver]

I genuinely barely celebrated McBurnie scoring because I knew it would be tight on VAR. When the fella next to me turned to me mid-celebration, I just just “VAR” and his faced dropped.

It’s wank. Indefensibly wank.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

One big advantage though of VAR is the improvement in dissent, intimidating. crowding the ref.

You obviously missed the entire Southampton team chasing the ref when we scored?

OK the goalie was picking the ball out of the back of the net but you get my drift.

 

[Bladesman]

I wanted to big up VAR and give it a chance but the worry in the back of my head all along was refs covering the arse of other refs.

What I am seeing in certain matches is that VAR is just covering up the mistakes of the refs. Yesterday was a great example of that.

Vestergaard should have got a yellow for a high foot on Baldock in the first half and then a second yellow for taking him out in second half.

Billy's red is a stonewall yellow all day long. If that is a red then Vestergaard should have already been sent off.

Debatable penalty on Basham.

Blatent penalty not given for handball.

The only thing VAR did get right yesterday was our goal being disallowed.

 

[Yellarbellyblade]

I think like others the big issue is that on points of opinion VAR is not overturning the onfield officials. To a degree that’s fine apart from the fact I get the impression that the officials are not making 50/50 decisions like penalties etc in the possibly mistaken view that VAR will overturn it and put it right. Offsides are easier hence why you see them overturned but you look at some of the other clear mistakes that have been made, the Silva penalty at Bournemouth, the Thielemans red card and others and it seems pretty clear to me that Stockley Park is predominately being used to take some of the heat off the match officials by providing something else to blame.
I was and am a great supporter of goaline technology having seen some horrendous errors in the past and was willing to see how an extension to other incidents worked. To say that I am currently underwhelmed by it is a huge understatement.

 

[Niceguyeddie]

Makes me laugh how in typical premier League style we have decided to use var differently from everyone else and just use it as a way of confirming the referees decisions
Mason clearly didn't see the hand ball but Mike Dean and his cronies will have and they just go along with the ref

Might as well get rid of it it's not working

 

[Punk Blade]

Without it at all, we drew through McBurnie’s finish.

I think without VAR there’s a very good chance the flag would have gone up.

I’d say the difference without VAR is that we lose 1-0 saying we could/should have had a penalty. Sometimes refs don’t see them or they just don’t give them and that’s fairly standard. The problem with VAR is we know it’s been looked at and someone at Stockley Park has made a conscious decision not to apply the rules.

 

[grafikhaus]

Egan was offside and in the past the linesman would have flagged for that 99 times out of a 100. As it is, we think we've scored, cue false celebrations.

It's merely replacing one level of (over-exaggerated) incompetence with another. I hate it. Plus, whoever said that offsides are "binary". No, they are not.

It was said somewhere (could have been MoTD) that 'Egan got a touch'. And if he hadn't?

And it's not even Sky Sports fault either as someone else claimed. FIFA had this first and other leagues introduced it before the PL. Sky Sports are only to blame in the sense that it's them who've got the cameras.

Yes, FIFA - under the enlightened leadership of the corrupt Infantino - have insisted that VAR is used. Who are we to argue?

Anyway, mouthpiece of the referees' union - Chris Foy - has spoken on yesterday's incidents:

FORMER PREMIER LEAGUE REFEREE CHRIS FOY

It’s not a penalty against James Ward-Prowse because while the ball did hit his arm the contact was not deliberate.
The midfielder was too close to another player and not looking at the ball so it couldn’t have been a penalty.
Billy Sharp’s challenge on Stuart Armstrong endangered an opponent and warranted a red card. It was checked by VAR — as all red cards are — and it was clear that referee Lee Mason had not made an error.

So that's all right, then...

 

[Bladesman]

I think like others the big issue is that on points of opinion VAR is not overturning the onfield officials. To a degree that’s fine apart from the fact I get the impression that the officials are not making 50/50 decisions like penalties etc in the possibly mistaken view that VAR will overturn it and put it right. Offsides are easier hence why you see them overturned but you look at some of the other clear mistakes that have been made, the Silva penalty at Bournemouth, the Thielemans red card and others and it seems pretty clear to me that Stockley Park is predominately being used to take some of the heat off the match officials by providing something else to blame.
I was and am a great supporter of goaline technology having seen some horrendous errors in the past and was willing to see how an extension to other incidents worked. To say that I am currently underwhelmed by it is a huge understatement.

Goal line tech has been great.

It seems like VAR won't touch the 50/50 decisions but its the blatent ones they are not giving that has a wiff of bullshit about it. I mean that nasty leg breaker tackle on Norwood at Bournemouth was the start of me really questioning VAR.

It says with red cards VAR will on intervine if they believe the ref has missed a clear offence. Well the ref missed that foul on Norwood during the bournemouth match.

 

[DeanLearner'sCat]

It's worse in this country than anywhere else I've seen it used. Clearly the VAR refs don't want to overrule their mates and our on-pitch refs don't get a second look at incidents. There have been numerous penalties ignored. It's essentially pointless.

 

[Bladesman]

It's worse in this country than anywhere else I've seen it used. Clearly the VAR refs don't want to overrule their mates and our on-pitch refs don't get a second look at incidents. There have been numerous penalties ignored. It's essentially pointless.

It worked better during the world cup than it does in the premier league.

It shows that its PL refs covering the arse of PL refs.

 

[gordoncharles]

It was said somewhere (could have been MoTD) that 'Egan got a touch'. And if he hadn't

I didn't think he did touch it, but he tried to and it was obviously offputting to the goalkeeper.

But I can't say for sure because I don't know what interpreration of the laws these wankers are working to these days.

 

[Champagneblade]

It was said somewhere (could have been MoTD) that 'Egan got a touch'. And if he hadn't?



Yes, FIFA - under the enlightened leadership of the corrupt Infantino - have insisted that VAR is used. Who are we to argue?

Anyway, mouthpiece of the referees' union - Chris Foy - has spoken on yesterday's incidents:

FORMER PREMIER LEAGUE REFEREE CHRIS FOY

It’s not a penalty against James Ward-Prowse because while the ball did hit his arm the contact was not deliberate.
The midfielder was too close to another player and not looking at the ball so it couldn’t have been a penalty.
Billy Sharp’s challenge on Stuart Armstrong endangered an opponent and warranted a red card. It was checked by VAR — as all red cards are — and it was clear that referee Lee Mason had not made an error.

So that's all right, then...

"the ball did hit his arm, the contact was not deliberate"

So every penalty given for handball, the offender was intentionally intending to give away a penalty against his own team was he? What absolute bullshit. Foy was a crap ref anyway.

 

[Tickhillblade]

It was said somewhere (could have been MoTD) that 'Egan got a touch'. And if he hadn't?



Yes, FIFA - under the enlightened leadership of the corrupt Infantino - have insisted that VAR is used. Who are we to argue?

Anyway, mouthpiece of the referees' union - Chris Foy - has spoken on yesterday's incidents:

FORMER PREMIER LEAGUE REFEREE CHRIS FOY

It’s not a penalty against James Ward-Prowse because while the ball did hit his arm the contact was not deliberate.
The midfielder was too close to another player and not looking at the ball so it couldn’t have been a penalty.
Billy Sharp’s challenge on Stuart Armstrong endangered an opponent and warranted a red card. It was checked by VAR — as all red cards are — and it was clear that referee Lee Mason had not made an error.

So that's all right, then...

It's either handball or it isn't - the rules must be a applied evenly - whether that be in attack or defence

 

[Sabella's Socks]

The people who can’t take 5 or 6 wrong decisions going against them a season have thrown their toys out the pram and have taken the game with it.

This. A million times. And it's not just football

The world's being run for squealing and squabbling toddlers.

Hopefully at some point enough people will come to their senses that we can all behave like grown-ups again.

 

[Sabella's Socks]

It’s absolutely awful. ‘The game’s gone’ is such an overused phrase but with VAR I genuinely think it will be. In 10 years we’ll look back on football and say ‘remember when it was good?’

A ‘goal’ will eventually be celebrated more like a penalty being given and scored. A muted ‘yessss’ when it goes in and it’s almost a formulaic ‘yess’ when the man in the shed behind the net confirming it. A goal going in without the euphoria of an actual goal, if you will. You aren’t going to get players knee sliding and throwing their shirt into the crowd once the ‘VAR CHECKING DECISION’ screen goes green.

There are (the vast majority of decisions) that are completely subject to interpretation. The answer isn’t ‘go to another referee with another interpretation’.

The refs do a usually fantastic job and always have. The people who can’t take 5 or 6 wrong decisions going against them a season have thrown their toys out the pram and have taken the game with it.

Don’t mistake this as ‘for the greater good for the fans’, this isn’t for the fans. This is for SkySportsTV. Reality football TV. No regard for the season ticket holders in the ground, it’s for more drama on tv and the people that have only followed the game on tv are lapping it up looking at 40,000 replays in HD while the fans in the ground are trying to get 4G to see what’s happening. There’s a reason that it’s not in the championship or league one or two, because the tv demand isn’t there for those games. They matter less.

Did anyone see Neves’s goal against Man Utd this season? Absolute screamer. The roof came off the stadium. Then everything stopped because VAR was looking for any excuse to disallow the goal. The wolves gaffer even said after the game ‘I’m seriously afraid we aren’t going to be able to celebrate goals any more. It’s a huge shame’. Ronaldo even didn’t celebrate his goal recently for Juve and told the fans to ‘calm down’ while running away in protest at VAR. that’s probably the most decorated player ever to put boots on against it. And juve have had their fair share of gifts from VAR in the last 2 years.

Another thing is that the referee or VAR official uses their own discretion to determine how far back to go in the build up to a goal to see what’s relevant to the build up. If the left back swears under his breath at the ref in the build up to a goal 90 seconds before a goal has been scored, if the ball hasn’t gone out of play, that’s dissent and a foul. Basically, it’s still down to interpretation. If a ref wants to disallow a goal, he can for that. ‘We want more correct decisions’ well that would be a correct decision. I know that’s an extreme example but where do you draw the line?

We are also limited by technology. A video is only still images at a very high rate per second put together to form a video. The cameras aren’t THAT fast that they can keep up with everything. Things will be missed. Remember the handball for City’s goal against Spurs? If that had hit his hand 0.001 seconds before or after, it wouldn’t have been picked up. Is that not a foul then? There are so many grey areas.

Before anyone says I am bias due to United being stitched up today, I would genuinely take relegation for united if it meant VAR was scrapped forever. We can rebuild. Football can’t. Everyone reading this has, I assume, loved football all their lives. Why the fuck are we changing football so drastically for no tangible benefit? I’ve heard people say ‘I’m pro VAR, if it means the RIGHT decision then I don’t care, make as many changes as you like’ but count me out of that. I’d rather have twice as many mistakes and keep the euphoria of Bashams goal against Leeds or brownys volley against the pigs ANY DAY. Plus, VAR has already admitted they have made 4 mistakes on disallowed goals so far this season. And that’s just what they’ve admitted to, and they’re very bias towards VAR. Basically, more cameras won’t solve interpretation decisions.

Please, please, please, stop this fucking shit. Not to sit on the fence or anything: I’m not a fan.

Is there a Hall of Fame for posts on here. Because this one gets my vote.

 

[Punk Blade]

It was said somewhere (could have been MoTD) that 'Egan got a touch'. And if he hadn't?



Yes, FIFA - under the enlightened leadership of the corrupt Infantino - have insisted that VAR is used. Who are we to argue?

Anyway, mouthpiece of the referees' union - Chris Foy - has spoken on yesterday's incidents:

FORMER PREMIER LEAGUE REFEREE CHRIS FOY

It’s not a penalty against James Ward-Prowse because while the ball did hit his arm the contact was not deliberate.
The midfielder was too close to another player and not looking at the ball so it couldn’t have been a penalty.
Billy Sharp’s challenge on Stuart Armstrong endangered an opponent and warranted a red card. It was checked by VAR — as all red cards are — and it was clear that referee Lee Mason had not made an error.

So that's all right, then...

So if James Ward-Prowse was too busy doing I’m A Little Teapot to be looking at the ball, exactly why is he on the pitch?

 

[originaltrueblade]

VAR checks three things....Goal....mistaken identity AND any Penalty claim.

Get your fu****g act together with VAR or get rid of it. I thought VAR would be a good idea BUT
It’s an absolute disaster run by bloody idiots. Now that shouldn’t surprise anyone in this country....just look at our parliament

 

[JohnDenver]

FORMER PREMIER LEAGUE REFEREE CHRIS FOY

It’s not a penalty against James Ward-Prowse because while the ball did hit his arm the contact was not deliberate.
The midfielder was too close to another player and not looking at the ball so it couldn’t have been a penalty.
Billy Sharp’s challenge on Stuart Armstrong endangered an opponent and warranted a red card. It was checked by VAR — as all red cards are — and it was clear that referee Lee Mason had not made an error.

So that's all right, then...

He also said Phil Jagielka should have had a red. It’s traditional.

 

[super_pig]

VAR is now being used to vindicate referees

 

[Snake]

Before yesterday I was in favour of VAR. I'm not anymore. Yes, ok, more decisions will be correct. But I failed to grasp the emotional side of it. When we score a goal I sort of jump up, and in an instant, look at the ref, then look at the linesman, then look back at the ref. If no infringement has been given, that's it.... I'm going mental.

Yesterday when VAR ruled it out I felt completely flat..... as did the team by the way we played immediately after it. Ok, it was the correct decision, but somehow it just didn't feel right. I felt gutted. It also gave Southampton a big lift.

Now that can't be right can it. Something so positive turns out to actually be counter-productive and negative. At least when you see a linesman raise his flag you cut your celebrations there and then.... call him a cnut, then get back to cheering on the lads. Yesterday it just felt very strange post that VAR decision.

 

[Silent Blade]

It was said somewhere (could have been MoTD) that 'Egan got a touch'. And if he hadn't?



Yes, FIFA - under the enlightened leadership of the corrupt Infantino - have insisted that VAR is used. Who are we to argue?

Anyway, mouthpiece of the referees' union - Chris Foy - has spoken on yesterday's incidents:

FORMER PREMIER LEAGUE REFEREE CHRIS FOY

It’s not a penalty against James Ward-Prowse because while the ball did hit his arm the contact was not deliberate.
The midfielder was too close to another player and not looking at the ball so it couldn’t have been a penalty.
Billy Sharp’s challenge on Stuart Armstrong endangered an opponent and warranted a red card. It was checked by VAR — as all red cards are — and it was clear that referee Lee Mason had not made an error.

So that's all right, then...

It is obvious Foy wasnt aware of the new handball ruling "a penalty is awarded a player's hand or arm has made their body "unnaturally bigger" whether it was accidental or not"

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

VAR is irrelevant if Mason is utter toss to begin with.

 

[metalblade]

I thought VAR might even the game up for teams not in the top six but clearly it isn't working for anyone. We had three penalty claims in the second half yesterday as far as I'm aware only the nailed on claim was checked because Lee Mason held up the taking of the corner kick. In giving us a corner Mason conceeds the ball came off the defender what I want to know is when does a hand or an upraised arm not become handball?
It is a load of bollocks everyone on the kop could see the defender raise his arm to the ball that was as blatant as the Egan save v Millwall last season. What we are left with now is some faceless official in a room somewhere watching a TV doing all they can to take the heat off the ref on the pitch and or possibly looking to favour the established Premier League clubs.
If the game has become too fast for the usually older referees to keep up with play then stick a ref in each half let the refs do what they used to do in the past confer with the linesman afterall we do call them referees assistants nowadays.

 

[metalblade]

Before yesterday I was in favour of VAR. I'm not anymore. Yes, ok, more decisions will be correct. But I failed to grasp the emotional side of it. When we score a goal I sort of jump up, and in an instant, look at the ref, then look at the linesman, then look back at the ref. If no infringement has been given, that's it.... I'm going mental.

Yesterday when VAR ruled it out I felt completely flat..... as did the team by the way we played immediately after it. Ok, it was the correct decision, but somehow it just didn't feel right. I felt gutted. It also gave Southampton a big lift.

Now that can't be right can it. Something so positive turns out to actually be counter-productive and negative. At least when you see a linesman raise his flag you cut your celebrations there and then.... call him a cnut, then get back to cheering on the lads. Yesterday it just felt very strange post that VAR decision.

Spot on we went to shit after the VAR ruling while Southampton got a boost it's the waiting about that kills you if the linesman had flagged we would have had a moan and got on with it.

 

[HillmortonBlade]

If a manager, including ours, can say they had the luck with VAR... doesn’t that actually demonstrate its failing in its purpose?