Time to move on?

[Antonb]

Do you all sing the Shoreham boys song? Yep thought so.

 

[bypassblade]

Personally I feel racism and homophobia is increasing, in regards to Wet Spam it's old news but, sadly the miners strike will never be forgotten it ripped families and communities to bits.

 

[FMBlade1]

And although it's not football, people have to be very careful in jumping to conclusions as this case showed:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c7znvkmxw0kt/jussie-smollett&link_location=live-reporting-story

A Presidential front-runner Kamala Harris made a big mistake by joining onto the initial bandwagon, and everyone should be wary of doing the same in any story until the facts have been established.

 

[Student Blade]

There lies the problem, it's no good telling the police if you can't back it up with clear evidence and help from others who saw it heard it.

But if you tell them you dont know who else has said anything and possible got evidence via a photo or video.

Staying quiet will definitely achieve nothing. Reporting it gives a chance something will be done.

Those that do nothing, say nothing, are just as bad as those that commit the offence.
I suppose they'd still do nothing if it was aimed at them.

By the way, I doff my cap.... to you and anyone who isn't afraid to stand up and report such behaviour.

Sorry but being a little scared/worried of speaking up against someone who is acting agressively and "thuggish" is certainly NOT the same as being a racist cunt.

 

[FMBlade1]

But if you tell them you dont know who else has said anything and possible got evidence via a photo or video.

Staying quiet will definitely achieve nothing. Reporting it gives a chance something will be done.




Sorry but being a little scared/worried of speaking up against someone who is acting agressively and "thuggish" is certainly NOT the same as being a racist cunt.

There's a way of doing it. If someone makes a racist remark once they are likely to do it again (sadly). So if you don't have witnesses/proof ask the steward to keep an eye on someone for that reason and they will surely be caught the second time.

 

[Student Blade]

There's a way of doing it. If someone makes a racist remark once they are likely to do it again (sadly). So if you don't have witnesses/proof ask the steward to keep an eye on someone for that reason and they will surely be caught the second time.

Yeah i get that. After I confronted him he did a runner very quickly probably cos he was shitting it. I was gonna try and get a quick picture of him before he realised what i was doing but I was too late!

 

[Cheets]

While a cursory glance online shows that racism and islamaphobia still exists, I couldn't imagine the widespread monkey chants aimed at black players that we used to get right up until the late 80s taking place today.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Do you all sing the Shoreham boys song? Yep thought so.

Hardly anyone sings the line you’re refering to which is why it tends to die on its arse and then start again.

 

[Linz]

To interject... you can also report abuse anonymously through the Kick it Out forum and app. Useful if you think the stewards might not act and you’d get your head kicked in for trying.

Other Reporting Methods

In addition to the Online Reporting Form, Kick It Out have a number of methods by which you can report incidents of discrimination in football.

www.kickitout.org

 

[Geordie Blade]

In times where racism and homophobia is thankfully showing signs of lessening it would be great to think we could enjoy the football without bringing up old grudges.

Sorry. That's so wrong......

Statistics gathered by anti-discrimination charity Kick It Out showed reports of racism in English football rose by 43% - from 192 to 274 - last season. This season there has already been four alleged incidents of racist abuse on the opening weekend of the EFL campaign.

It's increasing and it will increase again this season.

Not what I’m saying, I’m saying people are reporting it more where previously they would have ignored it. Racism can be decreasing whilst reports increase.

To be fair, whether or not actual racism is on the up/down, I think Lazarus was disputing the 'showing signs of lessening' comment. BladeInIreland's theory that 'reports of racism' is not a good proxy for 'racism' is a fair argument (although there are good counter arguments too). The point is, the signs do not show that racism is decreasing, unless you have another reliable metric?

 

[TCsLoveChild]

While a cursory glance online shows that racism and islamaphobia still exists, I couldn't imagine the widespread monkey chants aimed at black players that we used to get right up until the late 80s taking place today.

Racism, Homophobia, sexism etc is but nothing today compared to the attitudes of the 70's and eighties and if anyone thinks otherwise I can only imagine they weren't around then. That is not to condone it today but please trust me, it was waaaaaay worse back then regardless of what these statistics might tell you.

Yours in peace and harmony. UTB

 

[DifferentClass]

Are you seriously comparing us taking the mick out of West Ham and calling Forest "scabs" to racism and homophobia?!

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

I don't have a dislike of any of the other teams in the EPL, as opposed to EFL where two in particular stand out as being one's I always want us to beat.
However, I do want us to beat Newcastle so at least I can have bragging rights. That said even some Barcodes will want to lose just to put pressure on Bruce and Ashley!

 

[BladeInIreland]

To be fair, whether or not actual racism is on the up/down, I think Lazarus was disputing the 'showing signs of lessening' comment. BladeInIreland's theory that 'reports of racism' is not a good proxy for 'racism' is a fair argument (although there are good counter arguments too). The point is, the signs do not show that racism is decreasing, unless you have another reliable metric?

There is no figures for actual racism, you can only really gauge it in your area through your experiences. A lot of people think there is considerably less racism in football/society. I could accept an argument that it’s still thee just less vocal , but it certainly is less vocal and public. Other than that you can’t police peoples minds.

 

[HolmesfieldBlade]

Nah fuck em.

We want pointless tribalism and we want it now!

 

[Nick Jansky]

There is no figures for actual racism, you can only really gauge it in your area through your experiences. A lot of people think there is considerably less racism in football/society. I could accept an argument that it’s still thee just less vocal , but it certainly is less vocal and public. Other than that you can’t police peoples minds.

I think its become more vocal in public since the Brexit vote. The chemist in Oughtibridge, a very nice lady, was racially abused outside her shop by someone yesterday, and I’m hearing far more casual racism, islamophobia & xenophobia these days.

 

[Boxer Blade]

100 pager on the way to replace the defunct Maupay and Mcburnie threads.

 

[Davalon]

Really looking forward to the start of this season and i'd love to think it would be a great time to move on from some of the bitterness some people seem to hold towards some other fans.

The West Ham debacle was 15 years ago, the miners strike nearly 30. Portsmouth and Southampton still bring up a dock strike break from over 100 years ago.

In times where racism and homophobia is thankfully showing signs of lessening it would be great to think we could enjoy the football without bringing up old grudges.

I know some will agree, I also suspect many won't but i'm not going to let anything like this get in the way of me enjoying Saturdays.

Some football fans lose a sense of perspective.

Constructively criticise Wilder or McCabe for instance and you'll get some vitriol.

Scream scab at a 25 year old Forest fan and most will pat you on the back.

 

[FMBlade1]

I think its become more vocal in public since the Brexit vote.

Again it's more nuanced than claimed.

'What of the idea that the referendum somehow unleashed xenophobia? The notion that the Leave vote had been “all about immigration” was endlessly repeated in Remain circles and on the BBC. In fact, every opinion poll showed that sovereignty had been the main motivator. Lord Ashcroft, for example, carried out a massive survey on the day, interviewing more than 12,000 people, and found that democratic control was by miles the biggest issue for Leavers (49 per cent of them named it as their main reason for backing Brexit), with immigration a distant second (which was cited by 33 per cent). But opinion polls, for many Remainers, were no match for anecdotes: “Well, one Leaver I spoke to said…”
I tweeted that, if someone told you that the referendum was “all about immigration”, you were almost certainly talking to a Remainer. More than 200 Remainers duly proved my point by responding, in effect: “Of course it was all about immigration, you racist liar!”
The idea of surge in bigotry soon acquired a hashtag: #PostRefRacism. Three events were held up as examples of our newly intolerant mood: an attack on a tapas bar; an anti-immigration demonstration in Newcastle; and some graffiti at a Polish community centre. In fact, it turned out that the tapas bar had been burgled; that the idiots in Newcastle had been waving their placards every weekend for over a year; and that – as I can exclusively reveal, having just spoken to its chairman – the “anti-Polish graffiti”, which read “f*** you OMP”, was aimed at a Eurosceptic Polish think-tank, the Ośrodek Myśli Politycznej (Centre for Political Thought), which had just held a meeting at that building.
Similarly, the idea that there had been “a 57 per cent rise in hate crimes” bedded down almost immediately. A moment’s thought should tell us that such a figure is idiotic, bearing no relation to the country we see around us. In fact, the claim came from a police press release which emphasised that it “should not be read as a national increase in hate crime”. What had happened was that, in the immediate aftermath of the vote, a small number of people went on to a website to report hate incidents. Many of them seem to have been letting off steam: some of the complaints, for example, were about Nigel Farage. In total, there were 85 complaints, up from 54 the previous month, when the website had not been so widely advertised. (You can read Mark Wallace’s ConHome take on the figures on this site here.)
In other words, the preposterous statistic, which took on almost canonical force, was based, not on any increase in the number of cases referred for prosecution, but on 31 extra complaints in 96 hours.
Not that anyone cared. In the febrile atmosphere that followed the vote, simply to question the numbers was to be a racist yourself. Or, worse, a cynical enabler of racism. Hand-wringing pundits like Matthew Parris and Nick Cohen raged at me for having supposedly gone along with a bigotry that I didn’t personally share.'

https://www.conservativehome.com/th...about-the-campaign-that-must-be-debunked.html

Of course Hannan would say that, but he's not necessarily wrong as result. And I'm speaking as someone who voted remain and bitterly regrets our decision to leave (that's another story)

Brexit emboldened the racists who were already doing despicable racist things anyway, this time it was more reported. In a perverse way it's probably a good thing for Brexit to uncover who they are, although of course deepest sympathies to the victims.

There's a counter argument that since Brexit people are more tolerant of immigrants/immigration

Brits feel more positive about immigration since the Brexit vote

"There is little sign here that the EU referendum campaign served to make Britain less tolerant towards migrants," according to a new survey of public opinion.

qz.com

 

[snootyfenooty]

I think its become more vocal in public since the Brexit vote. The chemist in Oughtibridge, a very nice lady, was racially abused outside her shop by someone yesterday, and I’m hearing far more casual racism, islamophobia & xenophobia these days.

Brexit seems to be a catch-all for society's ills these days when its really nothing of the sort. When you've got anti-semitism, for example, being practiced right at the top of UK politics then anything goes now in this country unfortunately. The cure starts from the top as well, you're all falling into the trap of deflecting societal issues towards football which is exactly what the establishment likes to see as it gets them off the hook.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Racism and homophobia aren't on the same planet as calling Forest fans scabs and holding a grudge against West Ham.

 

[Davalon]

REPORTS rose by 43% last season. I would guess there was only a handful of reports during any given year in the 1980's. Does that mean football is more racist now than it was then?

I'm not downplaying the issue, and we will have to see whether the incident occurred. Innocent until proven guilty. It could be another Croft, Holgate or Ramires situation. We shall see. Of course if it did happen no punishment can be too great.

It's a positive development that people are reporting these incidents more.

I largely agree.

You can't compare stats today with yesteryear.

I regularly heard individual racist comments at games in the 80s and 90s and no-one batted an eyelid. Hence I'd guess far fewer reports.

The last time I heard an openly racist comment shouted at the Lane a number of years ago the bloke was instantly challenged.

I'm sure it still happens but considering how many United games I've gone to in the last 30-40 years it must have reduced markedly as I dont hear anything like I used to.

Equally the FA and Football League have a different approach these days. The worst mass racism I've witnessed first hand at games in this country was Barnsley in 1990 and Burnley in 1993. The authorities did fuck all about it at the time.

So much so Littlejohn was charged (or at least investigated) for inciting the Burnley fans when after being subjected to monkey chants, he waved to them after scoring and some surged forward causing an injury.

 

[Davalon]

Again it's more nuanced than claimed.

'What of the idea that the referendum somehow unleashed xenophobia? The notion that the Leave vote had been “all about immigration” was endlessly repeated in Remain circles and on the BBC. In fact, every opinion poll showed that sovereignty had been the main motivator. Lord Ashcroft, for example, carried out a massive survey on the day, interviewing more than 12,000 people, and found that democratic control was by miles the biggest issue for Leavers (49 per cent of them named it as their main reason for backing Brexit), with immigration a distant second (which was cited by 33 per cent). But opinion polls, for many Remainers, were no match for anecdotes: “Well, one Leaver I spoke to said…”
I tweeted that, if someone told you that the referendum was “all about immigration”, you were almost certainly talking to a Remainer. More than 200 Remainers duly proved my point by responding, in effect: “Of course it was all about immigration, you racist liar!”
The idea of surge in bigotry soon acquired a hashtag: #PostRefRacism. Three events were held up as examples of our newly intolerant mood: an attack on a tapas bar; an anti-immigration demonstration in Newcastle; and some graffiti at a Polish community centre. In fact, it turned out that the tapas bar had been burgled; that the idiots in Newcastle had been waving their placards every weekend for over a year; and that – as I can exclusively reveal, having just spoken to its chairman – the “anti-Polish graffiti”, which read “f*** you OMP”, was aimed at a Eurosceptic Polish think-tank, the Ośrodek Myśli Politycznej (Centre for Political Thought), which had just held a meeting at that building.
Similarly, the idea that there had been “a 57 per cent rise in hate crimes” bedded down almost immediately. A moment’s thought should tell us that such a figure is idiotic, bearing no relation to the country we see around us. In fact, the claim came from a police press release which emphasised that it “should not be read as a national increase in hate crime”. What had happened was that, in the immediate aftermath of the vote, a small number of people went on to a website to report hate incidents. Many of them seem to have been letting off steam: some of the complaints, for example, were about Nigel Farage. In total, there were 85 complaints, up from 54 the previous month, when the website had not been so widely advertised. (You can read Mark Wallace’s ConHome take on the figures on this site here.)
In other words, the preposterous statistic, which took on almost canonical force, was based, not on any increase in the number of cases referred for prosecution, but on 31 extra complaints in 96 hours.
Not that anyone cared. In the febrile atmosphere that followed the vote, simply to question the numbers was to be a racist yourself. Or, worse, a cynical enabler of racism. Hand-wringing pundits like Matthew Parris and Nick Cohen raged at me for having supposedly gone along with a bigotry that I didn’t personally share.'

https://www.conservativehome.com/th...about-the-campaign-that-must-be-debunked.html

Of course Hannan would say that, but he's not necessarily wrong as result. And I'm speaking as someone who voted remain and bitterly regrets our decision to leave (that's another story)

Brexit emboldened the racists who were already doing despicable racist things anyway, this time it was more reported. In a perverse way it's probably a good thing for Brexit to uncover who they are, although of course deepest sympathies to the victims.

There's a counter argument that since Brexit people are more tolerant of immigrants/immigration

Brits feel more positive about immigration since the Brexit vote

"There is little sign here that the EU referendum campaign served to make Britain less tolerant towards migrants," according to a new survey of public opinion.

qz.com

After the referendum result old racist Ron in the Red Lion who had been wittering on about darkies for years and either been ignored or told to shut up, suddenly became a stat for the remainers.

 

[RavBlade]

Hardly anyone sings the line you’re refering to which is why it tends to die on its arse and then start again.

Wanna bet? I and those around me sing it with gusto!

 

[RavBlade]

I think its become more vocal in public since the Brexit vote. The chemist in Oughtibridge, a very nice lady, was racially abused outside her shop by someone yesterday, and I’m hearing far more casual racism, islamophobia & xenophobia these days.

What a load of left wing clap trap. Project fear mk3!!!!

 

[Freethinker]

Those that do nothing, say nothing, are just as bad as those that commit the offence.
I suppose they'd still do nothing if it was aimed at them.

By the way, I doff my cap.... to you and anyone who isn't afraid to stand up and report such behaviour.

Some people go to watch football have a few drinks go home and not get involved with other people's rants what's wrong with that if you took up all the stuff what goes on and intervened there wouldn't be much time left to enjoy your day out

 

[FMBlade1]

Technology also plays a huge role. Those Chelsea fans on the tube may well have got away with it had someone not filmed them. In stadiums there are microphones and cameras everywhere, and professional lip-readers also play a more prominent role than before.

Of course social media has enabled/given racists a platform to spout their abhorrent views more than they may have otherwise would.

On a different issue I had to submit a complaint about an established company that has existed for 50 years. Nothing major. It took me 30 seconds to submit the online form. In the old days you would have to write a strongly worded letter. I bet that this company receives many more complaints now than it did 50 years ago.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

Wanna bet? I and those around me sing it with gusto!

...and strangely proud of it too.
I’m happy with my statement that hardly anyone sings it, out of 25,000 you and your buddies aren’t enough to alter that and it isn’t loud enough to be audible to anyone not sat right next to you.

What a load of left wing clap trap. Project fear mk3!!!!

The people in this country have had enough of experts

 

[RavBlade]

...and strangely proud of it too.
I’m happy with my statement that hardly anyone sings it, out of 25,000 you and your buddies aren’t enough to alter that and it isn’t loud enough to be audible to anyone not sat right next to you.

They aren't my "buddies" but are in the respect that they are fellow Blades, and yes I am proud of it. Oh and I,m happy with my statement too.
Please feel free to call me something ending in phobic, because I really don't give a flying fuck !

 

[HydeParkBlade]

I reported someone via the Kick It Out app during our last season in League One. It was away at Peterborough and someone a couple of rows back from me said some disgusting words about one of their players.

I confronted him and gave him a right earful and (in the heat of the moment) threatened him with being banned from watching football - which i hope United would do if he was caught. It got passed onto Peterborough Police and I spoke with a police officer a few times on the phone regarding the incident mainly about the procedure, attending ID parades and what not and how far i was prepared to take it. Unfortunately due to the lack of decent CCTV "at the smaller clubs", as the Officer put it, there wasn't anything to go off and the incident was dropped.

Interestingly no one else around me said anything/backed me up (not that i wanted it) and my point is that others WILL have heard it and weren't bothered to do or say anything which is quite a shame really.....

Respect to you for doing something about it even if nothing else happened