VAR question: PL project

[Geordie Blade]

But the laws state that there has to be contact for a penalty to be awarded.

Impeding the progress of an opponent without contact is an indirect free kick.

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct

IFAB Laws of the Game

www.thefa.com

Not sure I agree there. I think the ‘impeding’ bit refers to accidental impeding. Under the same section, it has a direct free kick (/penalty) for “trips or attempts to trip”. A direct free kick is also awarded for being “careless”. I don’t think VAR would have changed the outcome, as Morgan’s tackle certainly looked careless, whether he intended to trip Gerrard or not.

In fairness, we had it in our favour against Forest last season when their defender was red carded for a missed tackle on McGoldrick.

 

[ThatJa]

Shame VAR doesn't check against a players ineligibility....

So on that note I'm not interested.

 

[Cassius Kray]

The Gerard incident gets a lot of attention on here, but the Shelton and Tevez incidents were clearer imo.

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

I think they’ll run into technical difficulties with VAR involving Manure and the Scouse bastards.

Me too, there's a good chance that by the second half they'll have no TV screens left to watch it on!!

 

[Linz]

Not sure I agree there. I think the ‘impeding’ bit refers to accidental impeding. Under the same section, it has a direct free kick (/penalty) for “trips or attempts to trip”. A direct free kick is also awarded for being “careless”. I don’t think VAR would have changed the outcome, as Morgan’s tackle certainly looked careless, whether he intended to trip Gerrard or not.

But it does specifically differentiate between contact and non-contact.

After the bits you quote, it says "If an offence involves contact it is penalised by a direct free kick or penalty kick."

You can "attempt to trip" and it make contact on another part of the player as part of that attempt.

Under indirect free kick it states:

An indirect free kick is awarded if a player:

• plays in a dangerous manner
• impedes the progress of an opponent without any contact being made
  
  Rob Styles's justification was that he thought there was contact. In which case, for the denial of a clear goalscoring opportunity, Morgs should have been sent off. Even another yellow at that stage would have seen Morgan walk (but the introduction of only a yellow for a clear attempt to play the ball is a fairly recent one).
  
  Rob Styles basically made the laws up that day.

 

[Sabella's Socks]

I realise there’s an ongoing thread that touches on this but an outside agency has asked for our help with a project before the season and thought it would be worth collating your answers in the one thread.



Chris Morgan’s “intent” and Luton Shelton’s penalty at Old Trafford spring immediately to mind.

We’ll take the most popular two responses at 9pm tonight and submit them.

Ok. I'm going to take this literally/scientifically.

No-one knows, or can know, whether any decision changed the outcome of a game.

Say the Morgan/Gerrard/Styles penalty had gone to VAR

1. it could have stood and they score it
2. it could have stood and they miss it
3. it could have stood and they miss it, but...because even though Morgan didn't actually encroach he intended to encroach it's retaken, and they score
4. it could have been overturned but they score five minutes later and the game ends in a draw
5. it could have been overturned but they score two anyway and win the game
6. it could have stood and they score it, but then we go and get a winner (I like this one)
7. it could have stood and they miss it but score five minutes later
8. etc etc etc etc

There are millions, billions, trillions, gazillions of possible outcomes of VAR intervening - and if you like your Many Worlds interpretation of Quantum Mechanics, they're all happening in parallel universes.

 

[Linz]

Thanks for your responses - I've sent all the examples in and they can pick the ones they like.

For the record, it's Sky Premier League who got in touch. The "moments" will be going to a survey and the top three will be analysed by Carragher and Neville.

 

[RammyBlade]

Actually was this Geary, not Kozluk?

(sorry for replying to my own post)

Yes definitely Geary - if that had been allowed as it should we would have drawn and stayed up

 

[diode_blade]

VAR is being introduced in Jousting....yes the medieval sport of Jousting......as heard on radio this morning

"we go to a VAR review, Jug ears what was your take on that..."
"well Alan for me he was too high with the Lance, the eye surgeon will have a hell of job with that one...."

 

[Linz]

Well, we made the top twenty!

Vincent Kompany tackle on Mo Salah tops list of moments fans most want to see reviewed by VAR

Sky Sports survey finds top 20 decisions which Premier League fans would most like VAR to review

www.skysports.com

Top 20 decisions Premier League fans would most like VAR to review

1. Liverpool - Vincent Kompany is shown a yellow card after a lunge on Mo Salah. Manchester City win the game 2-1 and eventually the Premier League title. (January 3 2019)

2. Arsenal - Wayne Rooney wins a penalty for Manchester United and Arsenal are denied a 50th game unbeaten in a 2-0 defeat, but did Rooney dive? (October 24 2004)

3. Liverpool - Raheem Sterling's goal is ruled offside against Manchester City as Liverpool lose 2-1, but the then-Liverpool winger looked onside. City went on to narrowly win the title. (December 26 2013)

4. Manchester United - Didier Drogba scores the winner for Chelsea in a 2-1 win over United, but the Ivorian looked to be in an offside position as Chelsea went on to win the league. (April 3 2010)

5. Manchester United - Johnny Evans is sent off against Manchester City and United go on to lose 6-1, before losing the title on goal difference. Should Evans have been sent off? (October 23 2011)

6. Tottenham - Tottenham were winning 2-0 when Manchester United's Cristiano Ronaldo won a penalty. United went on to win the game 5-2, but did this turn the game and was there contact? (25 April 2009)

7. Manchester City - Ashley Young brings down Sergio Aguero in the Manchester derby but no penalty is given. Manchester Utd win the game 3-2 and City must wait to win the title. (April 7 2018)

8. Tottenham - Chelsea beat Tottenham 2-1 with a last-minute goal from Salomon Kalou, but replays suggest it was offside. (April 30 2011)

9. Aston Villa - Ryan Fredricks stamps on Jack Grealish but the referee takes no action. Villa go on to lose the game 1-0 in the 2018 Play-off final. (May 26 2018)

10. Bournemouth - Eric Bailly's high boot on Charlie Daniels in the penalty area is unpunished in Manchester United's 4-1 victory. (December 2018)

11. Manchester City - Willy Boly scores a goal with his hand for Wolves in their 1-1 draw with City last season, but it goes unnoticed. (August 25 2018)

12. West Ham - Sadio Mane's goal meant that Liverpool escaped the London Stadium with a 1-1 draw. But was James Milner offside in the build-up? (February 4 2019)

13. Aston Villa - Nemanja Vidic concedes a fifth-minute penalty in the League Cup final, which Villa score, but Manchester United defender Vidic is not sent off. United go on to win 2-1. (February 28 2010)

14. Sheffield United - Liverpool are awarded a penalty which Robbie Fowler scores to give them a 1-1 draw on the opening day of the season at Bramall Lane. Replays show there may not have been any contact on Steven Gerrard. (August 19 2006)

15. Bournemouth - Tyrone Mings is sent off for an alleged stamp on Manchester United's Zlatan Ibrahimovic. He then received a five-match ban, despite pleading that it was an accident. (March 4 2017)

16. Burnley - Arsenal are awarded a 98th-minute penalty, which Alexis Sanchez scores to win the game 2-1. But was there an offside in the build-up? (January 22 2017)

17. Norwich - Andy Johnson wins and scores a penalty for Crystal Palace in a 3-3 draw with Norwich. Both sides are eventually relegated, but was it a dive? (April 16 2005)

18. Norwich - Cameron Jerome's spectacular overhead kick against Crystal Palace was ruled out for a high foot, but should it have stood? (August 8 2015)

19. Sheffield United - Luton Shelton latched on to a through-ball and Manchester United's Gabriel Heinze's only course of action was to scythe him down. Replays suggest that he got nothing on the ball as United win 2-0. (April 17 2007) [Sky in guilty-of-using-United-incorrectly shocker]

20. Burnley - David Dunn scores a stoppage-time winner for Blackburn against their bitter rivals. But was it offside and should it have been given? (March 28 2010)

 

[Ainsley Harriott]

The disallowed one at Upton Park (was it) where we had one disallowed for a foul on the keeper when it was their own man.
Shelton was a disgusting decision. As was 'intent'

 

[Gimli]

Disgusting use of United - surely in a game between two United’s you can’t use that abbreviation - Piss off Sky!!

 

[8lade]

I know people never want to believe this, but “intent” is a foul, as described in the rules. So VAR wouldn’t have made any difference.

Our goal at Watford though, and the blatant foul on Luton Shelton at Old Trafford would have been easily solved by VAR.

Is this still a rule? I suspect we may see it's invocation (via VAR) to save the day for a few of the 'bigger' clubs.

 

[stringer]

The minute mark for Morgan’s “intent”:



1:35 for Shelton:

In fairness Shelton had stood on the ball and was already on his way down

 

[JOEYDEE]

But the laws state that there has to be contact for a penalty to be awarded.

Impeding the progress of an opponent without contact is an indirect free kick.

Law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct

IFAB Laws of the Game

www.thefa.com

Can't see a mention specifically of shirt pulling,or does this come under general rule of no holding?

 

[Punk Blade]

I know I’m late to the party here, and I know what the response of certain posters will be, but my two would be Jagielka being pushed in both boxes and the result being a Wigan penalty.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

15 August 1992

Simon Tracey murders Ryan Giggs.

Most blatant penalty that was never given at Bramall Lane.