Is Norwood a little bit toxic to the team?

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GreasyChipBeattie said:
The figures for his successful pass rate and chances created speak for themselves, but does he really fit the CW criteria that his close-knit 'us' type team player needs to show?
More to the point, do the PLAYERS feel he does?
His so-called 'Hollywood passes' look great when they come off, but how much are they to do with 'look-at-me' than the best option?
Often they don't come off, sometimes there is a casual, almost cockiness about his style which, as we have seen can cause problems. Overhit free kicks and wild shots aren't unusual either.
I just wonder how much all that affects the team spirit?
CW has often said something like, "There are no star names, no big-time Charlies here"
I'm concerned there might just be a small time one though.
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Norwood plays a high risk high gain game at times looking for passes no one else can play or would have the confidence to attempt,
We are guilty sometimes of not profiting from his vision by slowing things down and sometimes it goes wrong but I can live with it.
He’s also a joy to watch.
 

GreasyChipBeattie said:
The figures for his successful pass rate and chances created speak for themselves, but does he really fit the CW criteria that his close-knit 'us' type team player needs to show?
More to the point, do the PLAYERS feel he does?
His so-called 'Hollywood passes' look great when they come off, but how much are they to do with 'look-at-me' than the best option?
Often they don't come off, sometimes there is a casual, almost cockiness about his style which, as we have seen can cause problems. Overhit free kicks and wild shots aren't unusual either.
I just wonder how much all that affects the team spirit?
CW has often said something like, "There are no star names, no big-time Charlies here"
I'm concerned there might just be a small time one though.
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I understand where you are coming from with this, but the answer has to be No.

To get out of this division, we need better quality of players - just like Norwood and Egan who came in at start of the season.

All depends if you and others want to stay in this division? If we could put 4 players into this team in key positions, IMHO we can finish top 2, even now. We aren't far off - depends whether we can bring those in. CW wants 3, that's fine as long as they are intended to go straight into the team. If we do sign 3, then this forum will go bonkers as "some" favourites will be left out - but we surely MUST give ourselves the opportunity to get out.

Norwood doesn't play Hollywood passes - he plays good quality balls, quite often first time passes to players in space. TC could do it - so can Norwood.

Take the pass last week v Reading that put McD in on goal - absolute perfection that should have led to a goal with a better finish. Norwood opens the game up for us with his vision. Personally I think he's wasted playing where he does. Fulham played him further up last season, with McDonald playing the deep role - I'd like him to do that for us. Would love to see a FIT Coutts playing behind Norwood and Fleck. I say a fit Coutts, as he looked far from it v West Brom as though he is playing below the form he could do - perhaps it's a confidence issue.

UTB
 
Interesting Fulwood Blade RE: Norwood at Fulham, as I didn’t really know how he fit into their midfield.

I think Fleck is looking poor because Norwood is dominating the ball and he doesn’t (to me anyway) seem to know what he’s supposed to do and I’m not sure if this is down to instructions. You barely notice Fleck anymore.

Ive said in the January window we need an attacking midfielder. One who can replace Duffy (of course) but who could also play alongside Norwood with Duffy on the pitch. Essentially a box to box midfielder. Find the space, quick ball from Norwood and drive forward to then utilise Duffy and the forwards to break through the middle. Which I then thought - Fleck can do that !

Then I’m thinking it must be instructions, maybe, I don’t know, as we are obsessed with getting it out wide. So if we’ve got JOC, Stevens and Duffy playing triangles at the byline, is Fleck instructed to stay back ? Not something I’ve looked out for really but I have noticed his innocuous performances of late without really knowing why.

But Norwood toxic !? Erm no. Just not sure we’ve worked out what to do with Fleck in my opinion
 
Rob86 said:
Interesting Fulwood Blade RE: Norwood at Fulham, as I didn’t really know how he fit into their midfield.

I think Fleck is looking poor because Norwood is dominating the ball and he doesn’t (to me anyway) seem to know what he’s supposed to do and I’m not sure if this is down to instructions. You barely notice Fleck anymore.

Ive said in the January window we need an attacking midfielder. One who can replace Duffy (of course) but who could also play alongside Norwood with Duffy on the pitch. Essentially a box to box midfielder. Find the space, quick ball from Norwood and drive forward to then utilise Duffy and the forwards to break through the middle. Which I then thought - Fleck can do that !

Then I’m thinking it must be instructions, maybe, I don’t know, as we are obsessed with getting it out wide. So if we’ve got JOC, Stevens and Duffy playing triangles at the byline, is Fleck instructed to stay back ? Not something I’ve looked out for really but I have noticed his innocuous performances of late without really knowing why.

But Norwood toxic !? Erm no. Just not sure we’ve worked out what to do with Fleck in my opinion
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Great observations and something I noticed Fleck doing against West Brom on Friday night, he sat in at LB (twice that I noticed anyway) when we attacked and they countered. This isn’t Flecks game, we must have Fleck biting into tackles and bursting forwards, with or without the ball.
 
Had we got points v Leeds and WBA i don't think this post would have cropped up. He is playing well as are the rest of the lads. Acouple of additions will keep us challenging,
 
As the current set up in midfield is clearly not working, certainly against the better teams, I'd like to see Coutts and Fleck back in tandem for the next few games to see if we can rediscover the form of early last season, when those two were instrumental in our rise to the top of the division. If that means dropping Norwood so be it.
 
The only way Coutts will get back to his best is by starting competitive games. He's not got forever, he's 30 now. I suggest Ipswich on Saturday is a good one to bring him in for. Wouldn't mind seeing him and Norwood sitting deep with Fleck ahead of them. We should be able to control the game with whatever midfield we put out.
 
BLADES1988 said:
Strangest thread yet
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I've just come to it.

The question could have been 'Is Norwood out of form / a problem / not connecting' etc, but the by use of a completely over the top word like 'toxic', this moves a perfectly reasonable view point, into wanker post territory.

Are some of our posters 'toxic'?

Quite evidently, yes......
 
Coutts isn't close to full fitness seeing his latest cameo. Of the two, Norwood takes more risks with his passing which will inevitably lead to more mistakes.

The team will evolve, as will the tactics. Norwood has been a part of that and one or two may be struggling with a slightly altered system, Fleck being the obvious one. The January incomings may address the issues that playing Norwood are causing.
 
I can genuinely say that Norwood is the one player who gives me the most enjoyment whilst watching the Blades at the moment. It is blindingly clear that he is a class above most, if not all of the players around him.

I can't imagine many of the players are complaining about receiving accurate, well placed, paced and judged passes that put us on the front foot and help generate space and chances. Inevitably some of his passes won't work out just like they don't work out 100% for any of the other players in the team.

He is our best passer of the ball. End of story.
 
wizadry said:
Great observations and something I noticed Fleck doing against West Brom on Friday night, he sat in at LB (twice that I noticed anyway) when we attacked and they countered. This isn’t Flecks game, we must have Fleck biting into tackles and bursting forwards, with or without the ball.
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WBA won the game as in the second half they bullied us on and off the ball. They were more physical and slowed the game to their pace then hit us on the quick break. We ended up with Coutts,Norwood and McGoldrick all of whom arent the greatest at winning a physical contest. Up front we are also not physical enough. Leeds did the same to is as did Birmingham and the Pigs.Playing Duffy and McGoldrick against teams like this when playing at home doesn't work as it often leaves Sharp on his own up front as DM gets deeper and to get the ball. But the other teams are better at the physical side of the game and therefore we tire quickly

In my opinion CW needs to decide how to approach these type of games and that will effect who he gets in during January. Basham could be an option with Lundstrum as back up and play Stearman in a back 3 if he hasn't got much money to play with.You could also look at playing Fleck in the Duffy role in some games but i don't think Norwwod and Couts starting would give us enough energy or toughness to suceed at this level.For me, we need a strong target man ( Gary Madine type ) and a striker with pace to play off him. Also a need a physical presence in midfield ( similar to Gareth Barry). We need to start bullying teams should the game require it
 
bartman said:
WBA won the game as in the second half they bullied us on and off the ball. They were more physical and slowed the game to their pace then hit us on the quick break. We ended up with Coutts,Norwood and McGoldrick all of whom arent the greatest at winning a physical contest. Up front we are also not physical enough. Leeds did the same to is as did Birmingham and the Pigs.Playing Duffy and McGoldrick against teams like this when playing at home doesn't work as it often leaves Sharp on his own up front as DM gets deeper and to get the ball. But the other teams are better at the physical side of the game and therefore we tire quickly

In my opinion CW needs to decide how to approach these type of games and that will effect who he gets in during January. Basham could be an option with Lundstrum as back up and play Stearman in a back 3 if he hasn't got much money to play with.You could also look at playing Fleck in the Duffy role in some games but i don't think Norwwod and Couts starting would give us enough energy or toughness to suceed at this level.For me, we need a strong target man ( Gary Madine type ) and a striker with pace to play off him. Also a need a physical presence in midfield ( similar to Gareth Barry). We need to start bullying teams should the game require it
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I see where you’re coming from but I don’t want any fucker like Gary Madine. :mad::)
 
hello said:
The title of the original post is so fucking irritating.
Not much more to say really.
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I should coco said:
I've just come to it.

The question could have been 'Is Norwood out of form / a problem / not connecting' etc, but the by use of a completely over the top word like 'toxic', this moves a perfectly reasonable view point, into wanker post territory.

Are some of our posters 'toxic'?

Quite evidently, yes......
Click to expand...

Sorry if I upset you two, I honestly didn't mean to.
I didn't use 'out of form' ISC because I don't think he is. I think he's a talented player doing well for us.
I take your point about the word toxic, which may well have made my thread come across as a personal dig at ON rather than a point to consider, just the wrong choice of word in that case.
This wasn't a direct response to Friday night by the way, just a thought that (and let's face it, it does happen) one player may be having a negative effect on one or more of the others. As Rob86 said, Fleck might be looking poor because Norwood is dominating the ball. Of course, Fleck's form may be nothing at all to do with ON, but if it was, that would be an example of the point I was trying to make.
 

GreasyChipBeattie said:
Sorry if I upset you two, I honestly didn't mean to.
I didn't use 'out of form' ISC because I don't think he is. I think he's a talented player doing well for us.
I take your point about the word toxic, which may well have made my thread come across as a personal dig at ON rather than a point to consider, just the wrong choice of word in that case.
This wasn't a direct response to Friday night by the way, just a thought that (and let's face it, it does happen) one player may be having a negative effect on one or more of the others. As Rob86 said, Fleck might be looking poor because Norwood is dominating the ball. Of course, Fleck's form may be nothing at all to do with ON, but if it was, that would be an example of the point I was trying to make.
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Yeah I think you’ve used the wrong word to describe his influence ! Haha slightly OTT, but never mind. But on the wider point I’m not sure what midfielder would compliment him in our system.

From what I recall, and as I did say I haven’t watched it closely enough, he does give Fleck the ball who then passes it to Stevens or JOC charging down the wing to get into our standard 3v2 at the byline. It then often comes back to him and he passes it to Norwood and we go to the other side.

Thing with Ollie is that his passing style, when it hits, is just incredible and he always wants the ball.

Perhaps the overlapping centre half tactic should be reduced to give Fleck more freedom. The problem is our wing backs can’t take a man on one on one and cross it, so they need the extra support to be able to get to a crossing opportunity.

I don’t know basically !!!
 
GreasyChipBeattie said:
Sorry if I upset you two, I honestly didn't mean to.
I didn't use 'out of form' ISC because I don't think he is. I think he's a talented player doing well for us.
I take your point about the word toxic, which may well have made my thread come across as a personal dig at ON rather than a point to consider, just the wrong choice of word in that case.
This wasn't a direct response to Friday night by the way, just a thought that (and let's face it, it does happen) one player may be having a negative effect on one or more of the others. As Rob86 said, Fleck might be looking poor because Norwood is dominating the ball. Of course, Fleck's form may be nothing at all to do with ON, but if it was, that would be an example of the point I was trying to make.
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Not a problem.
Thanks.
Difference of opinion really.
 
Bladesway said:
For the know nowts....
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Where were the key passes against WBA, Reading, Leeds and Rotherham?

Genuinely struggling to remember anything he did at all, never mind key passes.

He has the same amount of assists this season as Leon Clarke. That's the same Leon Clarke who doesn't even get a game.
 
A key pass doesn’t have to be a 40 yd screamer. Just accurate and incisive. Ollie Norwood or Holly(Nor)Wood, is as good an exponent of an accurate and incisive pass as you will see in the Championship and probably most of the Prem. He is part of the glue that keeps United......United.
 
PeterNdlovu081 said:
Where were the key passes against WBA, Reading, Leeds and Rotherham?

Genuinely struggling to remember anything he did at all, never mind key passes.

He has the same amount of assists this season as Leon Clarke. That's the same Leon Clarke who doesn't even get a game.
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without having to think too much i'll give you 2.

Against Reading, a ball was played out on the right to Washington, he turned quickly and reversed the ball with the outside of his foot directly into the stride of Norwood, who played a first time ball over the top of McG and a defender just past the centre circle - McG ran onto it, without breaking stride, outpaced the defender to the edge of the box and tried to chip the keeper who was well off his line. McG fluffed it.

Against W Brom in the first half he played a first time ball - nearer to JSS than the middle of the park, and he wasn't even facing that way to Stevens. Stevens was in absolutely oceans of space down SS side, no one else within 20 yards - probably the most open i've seen a player all season. The pass was all about Norwoods vision.

Leeds and Rotherham? You make a good point. Both teams gave us little space to play and closed down Norwood as both managers knew he was our playmaker, so well done to them.

UTB
 
PeterNdlovu081 said:
Where were the key passes against WBA, Reading, Leeds and Rotherham?

Genuinely struggling to remember anything he did at all, never mind key passes.

He has the same amount of assists this season as Leon Clarke. That's the same Leon Clarke who doesn't even get a game.
Click to expand...
Off the top of my head,I can think of that great Currie -esque crossfield diagonal to Stephens in space on the left,which resulted in Duffy having a shot on goal...Then he robbed the ball off a WBA player to give McG a shot that was blocked,and he was also involved with the goal by receiving the ball from Bash and giving it to Duffy.
He's far from toxic,infact the opposite...keeps the ball moving,always looking to play forward,often plays the ball first time and takes opposition players out of the game,and he even wins back possession a it of times like in the early blocked shot by McG.
Yeah he did make a bad mistake for the leveller but he see's so much of the ball,he's going to make the odd mistake,and he wasn't as effective 2nd half,but finished the last 20 minutes on the left of a 3,with Coutts in the middle and Bash on the right in a 4312 type formation.
 
Rob86 said:
Interesting Fulwood Blade RE: Norwood at Fulham, as I didn’t really know how he fit into their midfield.

I think Fleck is looking poor because Norwood is dominating the ball and he doesn’t (to me anyway) seem to know what he’s supposed to do and I’m not sure if this is down to instructions. You barely notice Fleck anymore.

Ive said in the January window we need an attacking midfielder. One who can replace Duffy (of course) but who could also play alongside Norwood with Duffy on the pitch. Essentially a box to box midfielder. Find the space, quick ball from Norwood and drive forward to then utilise Duffy and the forwards to break through the middle. Which I then thought - Fleck can do that !

Then I’m thinking it must be instructions, maybe, I don’t know, as we are obsessed with getting it out wide. So if we’ve got JOC, Stevens and Duffy playing triangles at the byline, is Fleck instructed to stay back ? Not something I’ve looked out for really but I have noticed his innocuous performances of late without really knowing why.

But Norwood toxic !? Erm no. Just not sure we’ve worked out what to do with Fleck in my opinion
Click to expand...

I think Romaine Sawyers would fit that role perfectly.
 
PeterNdlovu081 said:
Where were the key passes against WBA, Reading, Leeds and Rotherham?

Genuinely struggling to remember anything he did at all, never mind key passes.

He has the same amount of assists this season as Leon Clarke. That's the same Leon Clarke who doesn't even get a game.
Click to expand...

Didn’t he put McGoldrick through with a worldie that he stuffed into the keepers hands at Reading? Just off the top of my bonce. Also as taker of what I think are the best corners we have had in years he clearly can cross a ball.
 
Before he arrived we had a stale midfield with a lack of creativity. We had Lee Evans constantly passing sideways or backwards, and Lundstram trying his best bless him.

He arrived and our performances improved dramatically.

He's good at football and he gets us playing. He's not fucking amazing, but he's miles better at that job than any other fucker who's tried to play it since last November.
 

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