Outgoing? Jack O'Connell

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nopigfansintown said:
Again same questions as posed in post 265.
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It’s not my job to know the answers to those questions.

As I say, JOC himself didn’t cost that much, which suggests it’s possible to sign someone of his talent for less than that amount. Just because they aren’t obvious names it doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
 

Eric Cartman said:
Name one.

There are no other JOC’s around, as good as him with his set of skills available for 8mil - if there were Brighton would want them instead
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Name someone who was sold for less than £8m who is better than O’Connell? All 3 of England’s centre halves at this year’s World Cup were once bought for less than £8m.
 
The market has moved on and JOC has improved.
Left footed English central defenders with his abilities are in very short supply
Wilder rates him

These are some of the reasons why he is not only worth more than £8 million but cannot be replaced for £8 million.

Agree that England’s defenders at the World Cup were once ( as in past tense) sold for less than £8 million but this is the here and now.
I would like to buy the £1 million house for £500k as it was once valued at that but cannot as have to pay the market value, or buy an inferior product for less money and invest time and money into doing it up
 
Eric Cartman said:
People talk about the complete defender. This boy is that.

Bit of pace, aggressive, strong, good in the air, strong in the tackle. Never gets beat one on one. Good feet, great passing range, great at bringing it out from the back.

His ONLY weakness is in the oppositions box. He should get 3/4 a season with the amount he wins in the other box.

He’s the complete defender and selling him for anything other than crazy money would be, well, crazy.
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Exactly. He has everything and is already a top top defender.
Certainly isn’t anything close to crazy money in the current market for a player as good as JOC, and still just 24.
 
A) don't sell.

B) we might be able to get a replacement for £8million, but it'd probably be at the top end of that, and if it was then they wouldn't take JOCs wages because they'd be a Billy Big Bollocks £8 million defender.

I think this is a load of old tut anyway to be honest, especially after the managers special yesterday and whatever was said there.

It'll be that 'generic man seen at training ground by suspiciously loquacious groundsman' starting all the Twitter Mystic Megs off.
 
LJBlade said:
It’s not my job to know the answers to those questions.

As I say, JOC himself didn’t cost that much, which suggests it’s possible to sign someone of his talent for less than that amount. Just because they aren’t obvious names it doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
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Which in summation is: take a punt on someone unproven like we did with JOC.I see very few proven players with those characteristics in the games we play which, seemingly, you agree with or you'd have told me the names. The lad at Man City might be the unproven punt we're after.I've never heard of him. Could be another JOC, could be another Heneghan.Even if he's another JOC will he beready to step up and have the same or better impact than O'Connell next season...
 
LJBlade said:
Name someone who was sold for less than £8m who is better than O’Connell? All 3 of England’s centre halves at this year’s World Cup were once bought for less than £8m.
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Ancient history. The market has changed markedly.As an aside, I was told that Maguire would never cut it at Championship level and that 2 million was fantastic money. I predicted that he would be an England International after his first full season with us. We still haven't replaced him, and 2 million wasn't fantastic money. History repeating itself?
# I do think we've got a better chance of coming out with a better team under Wilder and/or sourcing a good replacement though.
 
nopigfansintown said:
Which in summation is: take a punt on someone unproven like we did with JOC.I see very few proven players with those characteristics in the games we play which, seemingly, you agree with or you'd have told me the names. The lad at Man City might be the unproven punt we're after.I've never heard of him. Could be another JOC, could be another Heneghan.Even if he's another JOC will he beready to step up and have the same or better impact than O'Connell next season...
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Why do I seemingly agree? It could be, as is actually the case, that my knowledge of players outside of Sheffield United is severely limited. It’s good to hear that isn’t the case for yourself though, good on you.

Every player signed is a risk. We could spend £20m on a ‘replacement’ and it would be a risk.

You’ll notice that at no point have I said that finding a replacement for less than £8m would be easy. It would be quite difficult but it wouldn’t be impossible, as some on here seem to be suggesting.
 
£8m for JOC? Fuk off. If Brighton double that and maybe chuck in a player then it might be a goer.

The world's moved on. £8m for a player like JOC is sod all. We would be mad to let him go unless it is for silly money like the price I mentioned above.
 
nopigfansintown said:
Ancient history. The market has changed markedly.As an aside, I was told that Maguire would never cut it at Championship level and that 2 million was fantastic money. I predicted that he would be an England International after his first season with us. We still haven't replaced him, and 2 million wasn't fantastic money. History repeating itself?
# I do think we've got a better chance of coming out with a better team under Wilder and sourcing a good replacement though.
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You seem have a very strange understanding of the term ‘ancient history’. They were fairly extreme examples anyway
 
I think something people are forgetting is, the source for the new bid is fucking HITC. They are nothing but a click bait site written by kids in the school holidays. The bid probably isn’t even real and no even half reputable source has mentioned it. Get a grip.
 
LJBlade said:
You seem have a very strange understanding of the term ‘ancient history’. They were fairly extreme examples anyway
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Transfer market inflation has seemingly passed you by.As has the scarcity of quality centre halves, particularly left footed ones..You'd do better to compare with the current market for ball playing centre halves e.g. Moore at Reading and Mephan at Brentford. Both clubs have rejected bids above 10 million. They are believed to be holding out for 15. A very limited head it and kick it centre half in Flint has gone to Boro for 7 million at 29 years old. That's the market.We have one of the top prospects in the English game, it'd be foolish to let him go on the cheap.
 
Eric Cartman said:
Name one.

There are no other JOC’s around, as good as him with his set of skills available for 8mil - if there were Brighton would want them instead
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That’s false logic. Brighton are hardly the fount of all knowledge on footballers. Lots of clubs have signed central defenders for big money who, by that logic, must be better than JOC because otherwise they’d have signed Jack.

It’s rather like the other fallacy we sometimes get on here when we buy a player: Why would club X sell him if he’s any good?

This kid from City is likely to be more than useful I would have thought.
 
Pinchy said:
That’s false logic. Brighton are hardly the fount of all knowledge on footballers. Lots of clubs have signed central defenders for big money who, by that logic, must be better than JOC because otherwise they’d have signed Jack.

It’s rather like the other fallacy we sometimes get on here when we buy a player: Why would club X sell him if he’s any good?

This kid from City is likely to be more than useful I would have thought.
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Indeed. A lot of people are asking why we would buy in an area where we are already strong, where we already have an essential player there.

It's precisely because JOC is *currently* so essential to us, that we need competition and an alternative for him. Same goes for Fleck, Duffy, Clarke etc.

In the past we've sold our best players and suffered for it. But almost every club sells their good players eventually. Really the problem is that we need to have a squad strong enough that it doesn't collapse if a single player leaves. I have no idea if this is the case here, but if it is, and if this guy is good, then it's a sensible way of going about our business.
 

tomtheblade said:
Indeed. A lot of people are asking why we would buy in an area where we are already strong, where we already have an essential player there.

It's precisely because JOC is *currently* so essential to us, that we need competition and an alternative for him. Same goes for Fleck, Duffy, Clarke etc.

In the past we've sold our best players and suffered for it. But almost every club sells their good players eventually. Really the problem is that we need to have a squad strong enough that it doesn't collapse if a single player leaves. I have no idea if this is the case here, but if it is, and if this guy is good, then it's a sensible way of going about our business.
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Contingency planning is absolutely key to football management. We have an impending problem with Clarke, Sharp and Duffy due to their ages and likely drop in output over the next few years.I believe this is something we are hoping to negotiate partly during this transfer window. It's the same with our most saleable assets and injured players; we need to have specific transfer targets or people waiting in the wings.The Coutts injury was more keenly felt because we didn't have a contingency, until we purchased one in January.
Our academy is set up in order that the players have the same style of play and tatics as the first team, in order to help with this planning when a good un breaks through. Again contingency planning.I like the way we operate now.You can see evidence of structure and planning which we haven't had for ages. We started from an astonishingly low base though, which is why we haven't covered every eventuality.
 
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Hope it’s all rubbish and that Egan wasn’t brought in as a sweetener :(
 
Why are people even still talking about this?!
 
nopigfansintown said:
Transfer market inflation has seemingly passed you by.As has the scarcity of quality centre halves, particularly left footed ones..You'd do better to compare with the current market for ball playing centre halves e.g. Moore at Reading and Mephan at Brentford. Both clubs have rejected bids above 10 million. They are believed to be holding out for 15. A very limited head it and kick it centre half in Flint has gone to Boro for 7 million at 29 years old. That's the market.We have one of the top prospects in the English game, it'd be foolish to let him go on the cheap.
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So what you’re saying is that unless we spend £8m+ we won’t ever have a defender as good as JOC again because they don’t exist for less than that? If that’s the case then you better get used to lower league football because we won’t spend that and JOC won’t be here forever, even if he stays until the end of his career
 
Wilder is mad keen on having balance in the squad.

Left sided players to fulfil left sided roles.

Right for right.

No idea what there is in all of this, but I am firmly in the “this would be bad for our overall prospects” camp.

Bloody good player that JOC, and not so easy to replace as some might suggest.

UTB
 
super_pig said:
season hasn't started.. no football to talk about. if it's any consolation it does my head in as well. if this .. if that. if other.. Wilder knows what he's doing.. just leave it to him
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I agree about Wilder but sometimes things are beyond a managers. control, eg. a player whose head has been turned, an offer too good to refuse etc. As someone mentioned earlier O’Connel, Fleck and others are vital’to our team. People of my generation have too many bad memories of having our best players sold. That said, every club sells, no ones not replaceable
 

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