In defence of the forwards

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

In my role as a member of the goalkeepers' union, I often post on here in praise of our 2 keepers, who have given us a security at the back unmatched in recent years (they just need to avoid stupid red cards). I am now going out of my comfort zone to defend our attackers - I only ever played one proper game out of goal (numbers crisis), and average a goal a game, though my only goal was actually headed in by the defender marking me, but as nobody else seemed to realise this, we were both happy for the goal to be mine. So I am totally unqualified to talk about attackers, but my love of this squad makes me inclined to withhold criticism until the evidence is undeniable. We have recently missed lots of chances, but I think the way we play in part explains it. We have, thank goodness, returned to playing at high tempo, with the wing-backs and the likes of Basham and Fleck pinging in fast, early crosses (it was good to see Stevens v Cardiff doing this again). As a result, the strikers/attacking mid-fielders have to get in the box at pace, stay onside, and get some part of their anatomy on the ball. Such centres are hard to defend, but also hard to attack, and even the best teams (Spurs, Man City) see crosses missed by inches by the attackers, etc. Several of the recent misses (Clarke, Sharp) have been of this type, and the main thing you need is for the players not to hide and not to be afraid of missing chances. I think there is a good chance if the current pattern of play continues, goals will be scored, whether by deflections, desperate lunges, etc. The time to criticise will be if no one is busting a gut to get in the box.

 

[coaxingstar71]

This is just from the BBC website but the stats are quite interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/championship/top-scorers

Leon is 3rd on the top scorers list with 16 and Sharp is 13th with 12. Both have favourable shots on target ratios and minutes played per goal. Sharp has the best ratio in terms of shots on target and an excellent minutes played per goal (173).

In summary, they ain't doing too badly are they for two pub league has-been forwards?

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

In my role as a member of the goalkeepers' union, I often post on here in praise of our 2 keepers, who have given us a security at the back unmatched in recent years (they just need to avoid stupid red cards). I am now going out of my comfort zone to defend our attackers - I only ever played one proper game out of goal (numbers crisis), and average a goal a game, though my only goal was actually headed in by the defender marking me, but as nobody else seemed to realise this, we were both happy for the goal to be mine. So I am totally unqualified to talk about attackers, but my love of this squad makes me inclined to withhold criticism until the evidence is undeniable. We have recently missed lots of chances, but I think the way we play in part explains it. We have, thank goodness, returned to playing at high tempo, with the wing-backs and the likes of Basham and Fleck pinging in fast, early crosses (it was good to see Stevens v Cardiff doing this again). As a result, the strikers/attacking mid-fielders have to get in the box at pace, stay onside, and get some part of their anatomy on the ball. Such centres are hard to defend, but also hard to attack, and even the best teams (Spurs, Man City) see crosses missed by inches by the attackers, etc. Several of the recent misses (Clarke, Sharp) have been of this type, and the main thing you need is for the players not to hide and not to be afraid of missing chances. I think there is a good chance if the current pattern of play continues, goals will be scored, whether by deflections, desperate lunges, etc. The time to criticise will be if no one is busting a gut to get in the box.

Very good point.

A good example of the point you make is Donaldson's effort which hit the post on Monday. First of all, he did very well to get there and when he did both he and the ball were travelling at some pace and, between the goalkeeper and the post, there was only a gap of a yard or less to aim at.

I've heard it described as missing a sitter , which is utter bollocks. Clarke's against Brentford was a sitter but Donaldo's and a number of other efforts this season were bloody good attempts which didn't get what they deserved.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

This is just from the BBC website but the stats are quite interesting.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/championship/top-scorers

Leon is 3rd on the top scorers list with 16 and Sharp is 13th with 12. Both have favourable shots on target ratios and minutes played per goal. Sharp has the best ratio in terms of shots on target and an excellent minutes played per goal (173).

In summary, they ain't doing too badly are they for two pub league has-been forwards?

In League One, Ehrun Oztumer has 14 goals and 5 assists.

From midfield.

Just saying, like.

 

[Nade]

If you take off goals from penalties, Leon is the top scorer in the division.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Very good point.

A good example of the point you make is Donaldson's effort which hit the post on Monday. First of all, he did very well to get there and when he did both he and the ball were travelling at some pace and, between the goalkeeper and the post, there was only a gap of a yard or less to aim at.

I've heard it described as missing a sitter , which is utter bollocks. Clarke's against Brentford was a sitter but Donaldo's and a number of other efforts this season were bloody good attempts which didn't get what they deserved.

Agree with you totally about Donaldson- it had to be inches inside the post or the keeper blocks it, or he has to open his body up and guide it into the far corner. All that to work out and execute in a split second. If you are not one of the very top strikers, you need a bit of luck for it to go in. And he was alert enough to respond to the quick free-kick and centre. I would have loved to see it go in, but I wouldn't pillory him for the fact that it didn't.
I was more charitable than you about Clarke's miss v Forest - again, slippery pitch, greasy ball, ball skidding off the ground at pace, defender dived in front of him and missed the ball. I felt it was one where you hope the ball hits your head and bounces in, rather than you do a deliberate header. It was similar to his goal at Burton, but there he was able to control the header.
I'm going soft in my old age - beginning to feel sorry for outfield players!

 

[Cerberus Blade]

In my role as a member of the goalkeepers' union, I often post on here in praise of our 2 keepers, who have given us a security at the back unmatched in recent years (they just need to avoid stupid red cards). I am now going out of my comfort zone to defend our attackers - I only ever played one proper game out of goal (numbers crisis), and average a goal a game, though my only goal was actually headed in by the defender marking me, but as nobody else seemed to realise this, we were both happy for the goal to be mine. So I am totally unqualified to talk about attackers, but my love of this squad makes me inclined to withhold criticism until the evidence is undeniable. We have recently missed lots of chances, but I think the way we play in part explains it. We have, thank goodness, returned to playing at high tempo, with the wing-backs and the likes of Basham and Fleck pinging in fast, early crosses (it was good to see Stevens v Cardiff doing this again). As a result, the strikers/attacking mid-fielders have to get in the box at pace, stay onside, and get some part of their anatomy on the ball. Such centres are hard to defend, but also hard to attack, and even the best teams (Spurs, Man City) see crosses missed by inches by the attackers, etc. Several of the recent misses (Clarke, Sharp) have been of this type, and the main thing you need is for the players not to hide and not to be afraid of missing chances. I think there is a good chance if the current pattern of play continues, goals will be scored, whether by deflections, desperate lunges, etc. The time to criticise will be if no one is busting a gut to get in the box.

No mate, that doesn’t really explain most of it. I can see why you could justify that for some of Sharpe’s misses in the previous game, but Clarke’s misses have been woeful. At Reading he missed from about 2 yards out under no pressure at all. It’s poor finishing I’m afraid. If we’d stuck away half those chances in recent eeeks we’d be easily in the play offs now.

 

[Boxer Blade]

Funny thing is why is hodgy bringing it up,? is it because as we all feel, other than statistics we are struggling to be happy with our strikers since say January , we dont really want to criticise do we, but we have missed some real good chances recently , and it could cost us, wherever we are next season we need a big improvement up front.

 

[AWetFlannel]

Funny thing is why is hodgy bringing it up,? is it because as we all feel, other than statistics we are struggling to be happy with our strikers since say January , we dont really want to criticise do we, but we have missed some real good chances recently , and it could cost us, wherever we are next season we need a big improvement up front.

A big improvement upfront to what end? We are overachieving and Billy and Leon have took us to challenging for the play-offs.
I get always trying to improve, but do we NEED any big improvements or can we be largely happy with what we have?

 

[Keen Blade]

A big improvement upfront to what end? We are overachieving and Billy and Leon have took us to challenging for the play-offs.
I get always trying to improve, but do we NEED any big improvements or can we be largely happy with what we have?

Chris Wilder's career is on an upward curve because his ethos is to be unhappy with the Status Quo and always striving to improve.
I agree with him.
Ricky Parfitt , Francis Rossi & Co have made a lucrative career out of bang bang music that my demented mother-in-law could have written.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

Funny thing is why is hodgy bringing it up,? is it because as we all feel, other than statistics we are struggling to be happy with our strikers since say January , we dont really want to criticise do we, but we have missed some real good chances recently , and it could cost us, wherever we are next season we need a big improvement up front.

And those big improvements within our current budget and wage structure would be ........?

I've just been watching the highlights of the Champions League and seen International strikers worth tens of millions of pounds miss chances which were easier than the ones that Leon, Billy and Donaldo have been slaughtered for on here by some who clearly need a reality check on the difficulties of being a striker and the fact that none of them take every opportunity they are presented with, however good they are.

 

[Champagneblade]

Some of the misses of late have been indefensible.

I’m not sure which one of Clarke’s vs Brentford you mean. He had one where he nutmegged one guy, avoided a sliding tackle by another and failed to dink it over the keeper, all self-made. The one at Forest from 2 yards, hard to defend that miss.

The two by Billy from about the six yard box were sitters. His main attribute is supposed to be anticipation so miskicking one with his left from Baldock and having the other from Stevens hit his right knee were bad misses.

Donaldson has done well not to score the past two games. Put through twice vs Brentford, he had all the goal to shape it around the keeper, particularly the latter. The one against Cardiff, the ball came to him six yards out at point blank range. No idea why he tried to squeeze between keeper and post anyway, he had 2/3 of the goal unguarded. Maybe he just shut his eyes!

I see the good intentions of the OP but the reason we didn’t get 6 points over Easter was crap forward play. The defence kept good teams at bay, the midfield bossed possession and created a plethora of chances and the forwards cocked them up.

The saving grace is that it is still in our own hands though that statement is based on a near flawless finish. Given the barn doors and banjos approach to finishing, it’s hard to be overconfident!

Still a good season but the area of improvement is very clear.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Funny thing is why is hodgy bringing it up,? is it because as we all feel, other than statistics we are struggling to be happy with our strikers since say January , we dont really want to criticise do we, but we have missed some real good chances recently , and it could cost us, wherever we are next season we need a big improvement up front.

If we could sign Messi and Ronaldo tomorrow, I'd be all for it. 6 million for Madine? No thanks. 'Proven goalscorers' barely exist; good goalscorers seem to go in bursts. Edwards used to get dropped every time he went 3 or 4 games without scoring, and always came back with more goals. It seems to me that Sharp and Clark have scored enough goals to have kept us in contention; is the problem that the rest of the team hardly ever score, particularly the mid-field and wing-backs?

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Some of the misses of late have been indefensible.

I’m not sure which one of Clarke’s vs Brentford you mean. He had one where he nutmegged one guy, avoided a sliding tackle by another and failed to dink it over the keeper, all self-made. The one at Forest from 2 yards, hard to defend that miss.

The two by Billy from about the six yard box were sitters. His main attribute is supposed to be anticipation so miskicking one with his left from Baldock and having the other from Stevens hit his right knee were bad misses.

Donaldson has done well not to score the past two games. Put through twice vs Brentford, he had all the goal to shape it around the keeper, particularly the latter. The one against Cardiff, the ball came to him six yards out at point blank range. No idea why he tried to squeeze between keeper and post anyway, he had 2/3 of the goal unguarded. Maybe he just shut his eyes!

I see the good intentions of the OP but the reason we didn’t get 6 points over Easter was crap forward play. The defence kept good teams at bay, the midfield bossed possession and created a plethora of chances and the forwards cocked them up.

The saving grace is that it is still in our own hands though that statement is based on a near flawless finish. Given the barn doors and banjos approach to finishing, it’s hard to be overconfident!

Still a good season but the area of improvement is very clear.

Disagree with you about Donaldson's miss v Cardiff. A world-class striker would have managed to open his body up and score at the far post (Clarke did that v Hull, was it?). A mere mortal only had time to go near-post, and the space between keeper and post was minimal. It was hugely disappointing, but not a barn door and banjo job. That was how I saw it, anyway.

 

[Geordie Blade]

On a similar note, I don't want to defend Evans' miss too much (the one-on-one that the keeper saved) but what hasn't been mentioned is the massive effort that he made to get into that position in the first place. Fleck did well to hold onto the ball in the middle but didn't have any options at all. Evans saw that and made a phenomenal run from deep into space, outdoing any of the Cardiff players. Unfortunately, he didn't have the composure or natural instinct to finish the job, but I feel he got harshly criticised after doing 90% of the job very well. I think it was Oscar Wilde who said "I'd much rather have players missing chances than not creating any at all".

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

Some of the misses of late have been indefensible.

I’m not sure which one of Clarke’s vs Brentford you mean. He had one where he nutmegged one guy, avoided a sliding tackle by another and failed to dink it over the keeper, all self-made. The one at Forest from 2 yards, hard to defend that miss.

The two by Billy from about the six yard box were sitters. His main attribute is supposed to be anticipation so miskicking one with his left from Baldock and having the other from Stevens hit his right knee were bad misses.

Donaldson has done well not to score the past two games. Put through twice vs Brentford, he had all the goal to shape it around the keeper, particularly the latter. The one against Cardiff, the ball came to him six yards out at point blank range. No idea why he tried to squeeze between keeper and post anyway, he had 2/3 of the goal unguarded. Maybe he just shut his eyes!

I see the good intentions of the OP but the reason we didn’t get 6 points over Easter was crap forward play. The defence kept good teams at bay, the midfield bossed possession and created a plethora of chances and the forwards cocked them up.

The saving grace is that it is still in our own hands though that statement is based on a near flawless finish. Given the barn doors and banjos approach to finishing, it’s hard to be overconfident!

Still a good season but the area of improvement is very clear.

Sorry, my mistake. - it was the one at Forest I meant and I wouldn't try to defend that one.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

On a similar note, I don't want to defend Evans' miss too much (the one-on-one that the keeper saved) but what hasn't been mentioned is the massive effort that he made to get into that position in the first place. Fleck did well to hold onto the ball in the middle but didn't have any options at all. Evans saw that and made a phenomenal run from deep into space, outdoing any of the Cardiff players. Unfortunately, he didn't have the composure or natural instinct to finish the job, but I feel he got harshly criticised after doing 90% of the job very well. I think it was Oscar Wilde who said "I'd much rather have players missing chances than not creating any at all".

Not Groucho Marx then ?

 

[FTPE]

I'd like to point out that clayton has had 3 one on ones recently.
Not only did they take great saves to stop them as he hit the target every time but I believe it was HIS directness and movement that won those opportunities in the first place.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

On a similar note, I don't want to defend Evans' miss too much (the one-on-one that the keeper saved) but what hasn't been mentioned is the massive effort that he made to get into that position in the first place. Fleck did well to hold onto the ball in the middle but didn't have any options at all. Evans saw that and made a phenomenal run from deep into space, outdoing any of the Cardiff players. Unfortunately, he didn't have the composure or natural instinct to finish the job, but I feel he got harshly criticised after doing 90% of the job very well. I think it was Oscar Wilde who said "I'd much rather have players missing chances than not creating any at all".

Wrong source - it was Chris's great-grandad, Oscar Wilder...

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

On a similar note, I don't want to defend Evans' miss too much (the one-on-one that the keeper saved) but what hasn't been mentioned is the massive effort that he made to get into that position in the first place. Fleck did well to hold onto the ball in the middle but didn't have any options at all. Evans saw that and made a phenomenal run from deep into space, outdoing any of the Cardiff players. Unfortunately, he didn't have the composure or natural instinct to finish the job, but I feel he got harshly criticised after doing 90% of the job very well. I think it was Oscar Wilde who said "I'd much rather have players missing chances than not creating any at all".

I think confidence was a big factor with that one. Plus the fact that the goalie came out at full speed, and was going to win the ball or give a penalty away and be red-carded. He was lucky enough/skilful enough to get to the ball first.

 

[Geordie Blade]

I think confidence was a big factor with that one. Plus the fact that the goalie came out at full speed, and was going to win the ball or give a penalty away and be red-carded. He was lucky enough/skilful enough to get to the ball first.

Yes, it was great goalkeeping - very alert and decisive.

 

[Jim Chimmerney]

The problem we have is that in this division, strikers don't generally get 4 or 5 chances a game so every missed chance is amplified and, as we have found, costly in terms of taking points. Billy, Leon and Clayton are good Championship strikers with different attributes but they are what they are, they aren't going to improve us beyond where we are now.

 

[Sharrow Snuff Mill]

In my role as a member of the goalkeepers' union, I often post on here in praise of our 2 keepers, who have given us a security at the back unmatched in recent years (they just need to avoid stupid red cards). I am now going out of my comfort zone to defend our attackers - I only ever played one proper game out of goal (numbers crisis), and average a goal a game, though my only goal was actually headed in by the defender marking me, but as nobody else seemed to realise this, we were both happy for the goal to be mine. So I am totally unqualified to talk about attackers, but my love of this squad makes me inclined to withhold criticism until the evidence is undeniable. We have recently missed lots of chances, but I think the way we play in part explains it. We have, thank goodness, returned to playing at high tempo, with the wing-backs and the likes of Basham and Fleck pinging in fast, early crosses (it was good to see Stevens v Cardiff doing this again). As a result, the strikers/attacking mid-fielders have to get in the box at pace, stay onside, and get some part of their anatomy on the ball. Such centres are hard to defend, but also hard to attack, and even the best teams (Spurs, Man City) see crosses missed by inches by the attackers, etc. Several of the recent misses (Clarke, Sharp) have been of this type, and the main thing you need is for the players not to hide and not to be afraid of missing chances. I think there is a good chance if the current pattern of play continues, goals will be scored, whether by deflections, desperate lunges, etc. The time to criticise will be if no one is busting a gut to get in the box.

Good points. What annoys me is seeing forwards constantly having to check their runs and move back to stay onside because others are overplaying the passes and not getting crosses in early. The more crosses that go in early to advancing forwards the more chances you create and more goals you score. Simples !