Budget

[BushBlade]

Haha, I knew someone would point out that we are 7th!

McCabe is a businessman and would be making an educated bet with a low calculated risk (5mil to £180mil)

I’m not saying spend money for spending money’s sake. I’m saying that if there is a player that is CW wants for £2mil for example, we should just get them, rather than doing what I imagine we would do and try and find someone not quite as good for less money, or offer much less (such as Leonard). If he is a business man he should bring in the best talent to take his venture forward.

The simple premise is, find a player you think can take us up. Buy him. If you think he can take us up then he is worth it, right? If you don’t, then why are we looking at him?

I would personally say that spending small amounts is more of a gamble than buying what we want regardless (to a certain extent) of cost.

Regarding “it’s much easier when it’s not your money”... this opinion is my opinion on most things. I don’t think throwing money at the problem is the best solution at all, but if there is a piece of kit I think is better for my business and costs more I will get it. Now, I’m not talking about millions of pounds here with my business, but it’s the same principle.

Not taking the gamble would be the bad bet!

The difference between your business, my business and most businesses is that you can project future returns from an investment with relative certainty. In football it doesn't work like that. You can't say 'if we spend £x, we will definitely get promoted' and we are losing money each year. No one would run a business on those principles so trying to equate running a football club with running a regular business has very limited value.

 

[B14Nco]

Do people realise how much £1million (of somebody else’s money) is?

With whoever Wilder brings in... (whether 500k or 5mill) we are progressing... surely people have learnt this over the last 18months... I think our mantra has always been why spend more than we need too. Why change that?

Once you accept we will not be going out and spending 7/8 mill on a Ryan Woods type... (e.g. a starting quality championship midfielder at a rival)... IMO... the risk of spending 2/3mill on a player not getting into a team probably below us is much greater than spending a mill on someone you and your staff believe are good enough and on their way up.

 

[Darthblade]

He may have been given what he asked for Darth

You are correct mate ..... he may have Anything is possible in the crazy world of football ....... apart from the pigs being realistic

I suppose its because I've been supporting the sexy RAWW for 53 years now and I have become very cynical and extremely mistrustful of the SUFC Board ....... partly because they have consistently deceived the supporters and underwhelmingly backed the managers for the vast majority of my time as a supporter.

I would love to believe that the Board have backed Tufty to the levels that he's asked for ....... but I have yet to see any evidence of this and I would be delighted to be proven wrong by the incumbents.

My fingers remain crossed ...... or is it the arthritis

UTB & FTP

 

[Blade58]

You are correct mate ..... he may have Anything is possible in the crazy world of football ....... apart from the pigs being realistic

I suppose its because I've been supporting the sexy RAWW for 53 years now and I have become very cynical and extremely mistrustful of the SUFC Board ....... partly because they have consistently deceived the supporters and underwhelmingly backed the managers for the vast majority of my time as a supporter.

I would love to believe that the Board have backed Tufty to the levels that he's asked for ....... but I have yet to see any evidence of this and I would be delighted to be proven wrong by the incumbents.

My fingers remain crossed ...... or is it the arthritis

UTB & FTP

I agree and I have been critical of the board in my time also

However and it remains to be seen, certainly as yet, but I wouldn't bet against CW having his budget request granted

 

[Maidenhead]

You are correct mate ..... he may have Anything is possible in the crazy world of football ....... apart from the pigs being realistic

I suppose its because I've been supporting the sexy RAWW for 53 years now and I have become very cynical and extremely mistrustful of the SUFC Board ....... partly because they have consistently deceived the supporters and underwhelmingly backed the managers for the vast majority of my time as a supporter.

I would love to believe that the Board have backed Tufty to the levels that he's asked for ....... but I have yet to see any evidence of this and I would be delighted to be proven wrong by the incumbents.

My fingers remain crossed ...... or is it the arthritis

UTB & FTP

I agree and I have been critical of the board in my time also

However and it remains to be seen, certainly as yet, but I wouldn't bet against CW having his budget request granted

I'm right there with you two guys, but I have to say that ever since Wilder arrived here I've seen nothing to suggest that the board have failed to back him in any way when asked to do so.

The same goes for his two predecessors.

I've seen nothing from Clough or Adkins to suggest that they didn't get 100% backing from the board.

Dean Hammond?

 

[Lawrence]

The difference between your business, my business and most businesses is that you can project future returns from an investment with relative certainty. In football it doesn't work like that. You can't say 'if we spend £x, we will definitely get promoted' and we are losing money each year. No one would run a business on those principles so trying to equate running a football club with running a regular business has very limited value.

OK I know you can’t subscribe to my logic... I’m not saying the club would definitely get promoted... but the way United are playing it, and always have played it is false economy, If they are unprepared to make a MODEST investment, at this moment in time to build on what CW and players have achieved so far, a chance of reaching the Premiere League worth £180 million! then next season would be the same (no substantial investment) why would it change? and year in year out (why would it change?) the club would just be treading water. why would you invest next season and not in January? thats a false economy, In economics, a false economy is an action that saves money at the beginning but which, over a longer period of time, results in more money being spent or wasted than being saved.

I know that supporting my club will always frustrate me, but when a genuine opportunity to move forward arrives we will not take the step forward. I like Championship Football and despise the Premiere League/ Sky TV money and how it has ruined our game! but for United to be progressive they will ‘ONE DAY’ have to invest!! so why not in this window?

 

[Maidenhead]

OK I know you can’t subscribe to my logic... I’m not saying the club would definitely get promoted... but the way United are playing it, and always have played it is false economy, If they are unprepared to make a MODEST investment, at this moment in time to build on what CW and players have achieved so far, a chance of reaching the Premiere League worth £180 million! then next season would be the same (no substantial investment) why would it change? and year in year out (why would it change?) the club would just be treading water. why would you invest next season and not in January? thats a false economy, In economics, a false economy is an action that saves money at the beginning but which, over a longer period of time, results in more money being spent or wasted than being saved.

I know that supporting my club will always frustrate me, but when a genuine opportunity to move forward arrives we will not take the step forward. I like Championship Football and despise the Premiere League/ Sky TV money and how it has ruined our game! but for United to be progressive they will ‘ONE DAY’ have to invest!! so why not in this window?

change your "unprepared" to unable and you've answered your own question.

 

[PeakyBlader]

I don't get how this is new news to some?

I went to Tesco with our lass a good while back and as we headed down "aisle 6 - toiletries", I noticed that the supermarket giants are offering four ply, extra soft loo roll with added aloe vera.....FOUR BLOODY PLY!!....For just 99p!

This only spells heavy shit.

The prince can't compete with that! No way!

 

[The Crab]

I did.

When your my age, the mid 70s seems like only yesterday.

I remember the first aeroplane flying over Sheffield and the Queen coming to visit. That Victoria, she were a right lady!

We could have a little singsong if you like (think Clive Dunn on speed):

I remember being in Barnsley when the first plane flew over, that was only last week.

 

[Lawrence]

Do people realise how much £1million (of somebody else’s money) is?

With whoever Wilder brings in... (whether 500k or 5mill) we are progressing... surely people have learnt this over the last 18months... I think our mantra has always been why spend more than we need too. Why change that?

Once you accept we will not be going out and spending 7/8 mill on a Ryan Woods type... (e.g. a starting quality championship midfielder at a rival)... IMO... the risk of spending 2/3mill on a player not getting into a team probably below us is much greater than spending a mill on someone you and your staff believe are good enough and on their way up.

2 or 3 million on 4 players would be a modest investment with what could be achieved, don’t think anyone is saying go out and buy one player for 3 million.

 

[Danny_Boy]

Putting straight inaccuracies because you have insider knowledge isn’t ‘defending’. If an American told you United play in blue, you saying ‘no, it’s red’ isn’t defending anyone. Yes, I do and no, she isn’t.

If they are you thoughts on the matter then fair enough but you work for them you are hardly likely to come onto a Blades forum and start saying yeah my employer is biased towards Wednesday. No offence Danny but your opinion is hardly impartial.

Off the top of my head examples of what I personally (and many other blades) thought were biased.

Reporting when we signed Samir Carruthers (instead of a report about the player we get old reports about the time he once wee'd in a glass)
Negative press when we signed Marlon King.
Negative press when we signed Evans.

I could accept all the above if it was the same for our City rivals but I did not see any negative press from the Star when Wednesday signed Nile Ranger or Gary Madine.

 

[Lawrence]

change your "unprepared" to unable and you've answered your own question.

Then we will always be ‘unable’

 

[Maidenhead]

2 or 3 million on 4 players would be a modest investment with what could be achieved, don’t think anyone is saying go out and buy one player for 3 million.

Why do all these people with no money think that £3 -£4m is a modest investment?

 

[Lawrence]

Why do all these people with no money think that £3 -£4m is a modest investment?

“investment will not run to “ridiculous” sums of money, adding: “Think of Liverpool rather than Manchester City”

3 to 4 million for 4 players is VERY modest for the Championship, If United think it’s not modest then we had better get back down to League one.

 

[Maidenhead]

“investment will not run to “ridiculous” sums of money, adding: “Think of Liverpool rather than Manchester City”

3 to 4 million for 4 players is VERY modest for the Championship, If United think it’s not modest then we had better get back down to League one.

Looks like you've got us going down then

 

[Lawrence]

Looks like you've got us going down then

Haha cheers Maidenhead

 

[blade1889]

Why do all these people with no money think that £3 -£4m is a modest investment?

Not sure I see the correlation between having no money and understanding what a modest investment is in Championship football.

£102.8 million was spent last season by the the teams that finished in the top 6. That's an average of £17.1 million. I would say £4m is modest.
Of course, I'm not saying spending money is the right way to go... it often doesn't work, but I don't agree that it is not a modest investment when pushing for promotion.

Something to consider?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Sorry ISC, I thought you said recently!



No examples then? I don't mind a debate on it. Some Owls think the paper got Carlos sacked with a stream of negativity

Recently? The one with the druggie copper who although played many first team games for a SouthYorkshire Club (77) as opposed to one league game for United was described in the headline as "ex Sheffield United". Think your defence for that one was, it's a fact, whilst totally dodging the point being made.

Thought Carlos left by mutual consent? Or is that a libel issue to reveal all?

 

[South Bucks]

No one knows. But that didn't stop you wondering if he'd pocketed the Walker/Maguire money.

No sure how "unclear what happened to the sell on money" which is quite benign suddenly becomes "him pocketing it". It could be used in several different ways and I see no reason to assume the worst without evidence, its unhealthy. Strange how on this board how some blades often assume the worst intentions of other blades when usually none exists and there is just a wish for club success, decent friendly debate and better info.

 

[Maidenhead]

Not sure I see the correlation between having no money and understanding what a modest investment is in Championship football.

£102.8 million was spent last season by the the teams that finished in the top 6. That's an average of £17.1 million. I would say £4m is modest.
Of course, I'm not saying spending money is the right way to go... it often doesn't work, but I don't agree that it is not a modest investment when pushing for promotion.

Something to consider?

Only someone with no money would consider £4m modest


Someone with £4m to spend would most likely consider it a hard earned substantial sum umless they are mega rich, which KM and the Prince clearly are not.

It may be modest in terms of Championship football club's average spending but in terms of SUFC's resources it is clearly substantial.

It's all about context

 

[Sean Thornton]

No sure how "unclear what happened to the sell on money" which is quite benign suddenly becomes "him pocketing it". It could be used in several different ways and I see no reason to assume the worst without evidence, its unhealthy. Strange how on this board how some blades often assume the worst intentions of other blades when usually none exists and there is just a wish for club success, decent friendly debate and better info.

That's not what you said :-

"just haven't seen any evidence its gone into his pocket but its up to him if it relates to players sold before HRH arrived, he's put in a lot of dosh so can't moan if he takes some back".

Why would there be "evidence"? It's not up to him anyway but the underlying assumption, being generous, was that he could have had it, but you don't know, but went on to describe something that said he might ( but it's okay because it was his before).

In any event, the point is moot because he's not owed anything by the football club to be repaid, or snaffled from FC income.

Better info. That's the nail on the head.


No evidence - correct

He could - incorrect

 

[blade1889]

Only someone with no money would consider £4m modest


Someone with £4m to spend would most likely consider it a hard earned substantial sum umless they are mega rich, which KM and the Prince clearly are not.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the guy was saying that it was a modest investment for championship football teams... not me and you mate.
I have no where near £4m, it is a vast amount of money... but it is not a vast amount of money for a championship team to spend in one season.



Up the blades.

 

[Maidenhead]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the guy was saying that it was a modest investment for championship football teams... not me and you mate.
I have no where near £4m, it is a vast amount of money... but it is not a vast amount of money for a championship team to spend in one season.



Up the blades.

I agree it's all about context.

See above.

Will all be irrelevant very soon as we're rumoured to be completing an investment of circa £3m in some guy called Ryan Leonard on a three and a half year contract

 

[Booker4]

Alan Biggs is generally regarded as a past it Old hack until he suggests anything negative about the board. Then he's Brian Glanville.

We discussed this a lot yesterday and the view of Biggs is also backed by ViewfromJohnStreet who I always find to be a good read and obviously Unitedites.

http://www.viewfromthejohnstreet.com/all-posts/2018/1/2/0pmbqrrc3qi0zjkqecvd3oktndfcfo

Saying that if we can get Leonard, Cole and a decent loan from the Prem like Ryan Kent, then I think we can consider that a decent window, albeit modest in expenditure.

 

[Fanny magnet]

Why do all these people with no money think that £3 -£4m is a modest investment?

3 to 4 million for a club that's just raked in 7 is fucking pathetic never mind modest
Pity well only spend half
What's half of modest ?

 

[Nicolaus_Copernicus]

Why do all these people with no money think that £3 -£4m is a modest investment?

The comparative wealth of the poster and the owner of the club aren't relevant. People's view on what constitutes appropriate levels of investment/expenditure are usually based upon comparison with other Championship clubs of similar size. In the most part the figures mentioned on here are within the realms of reality. We're the 68th biggest club in Europe on attendances this season, situated in the continent's 86th largest city currently playing in the 2nd tier of the wealthiest football league structure in the world. I welcome the time that we start acting & thinking like it.

Paying upwards of £2m for a player is common place in the Championship and should be for a team of our stature.

Certain people need to crap or get off the pot at this club for it move forward.

 

[BushBlade]

OK I know you can’t subscribe to my logic... I’m not saying the club would definitely get promoted... but the way United are playing it, and always have played it is false economy, If they are unprepared to make a MODEST investment, at this moment in time to build on what CW and players have achieved so far, a chance of reaching the Premiere League worth £180 million! then next season would be the same (no substantial investment) why would it change? and year in year out (why would it change?) the club would just be treading water. why would you invest next season and not in January? thats a false economy, In economics, a false economy is an action that saves money at the beginning but which, over a longer period of time, results in more money being spent or wasted than being saved.

I know that supporting my club will always frustrate me, but when a genuine opportunity to move forward arrives we will not take the step forward. I like Championship Football and despise the Premiere League/ Sky TV money and how it has ruined our game! but for United to be progressive they will ‘ONE DAY’ have to invest!! so why not in this window?

They've been making modest investments for as long as the Prince has been involved and in McCabe's case much longer. They will have to continue to make modest investments for as long as we remain in the championship. What you want is more 'modest' investment on top of what they've invested and will keep investing.

I understand the principle of false economy but what you're saying is that if they invest £5m now, they may not have to invest next season, etc, as we'll be in the PL and should be able to break even. That's correct but where we differ is that you see it as a reasonable probability that the money would get us up whereas I don't and see it as £5m that could be better spent next season.

Now I've just spent the last hour or so doing an expenditure analysis for my tax return so I'm done with discussing owt more to do with money.

 

[Sean Thornton]

We discussed this a lot yesterday and the view of Biggs is also backed by ViewfromJohnStreet who I always find to be a good read and obviously Unitedites.

http://www.viewfromthejohnstreet.com/all-posts/2018/1/2/0pmbqrrc3qi0zjkqecvd3oktndfcfo

Saying that if we can get Leonard, Cole and a decent loan from the Prem like Ryan Kent, then I think we can consider that a decent window, albeit modest in expenditure.

VFJS are always critical of the board andMcCabe in particular. In an interview with a Pig blog in September he said,

"If we can reach the New Year in good shape, I think the clubs co-owners and our Saudi prince in particular, who bought a 50 per cent share for £1 four years ago but has offered little ever since, will step up to the plate"

Something that many on here without his expertise doubted after the summer. It seems now though he's changed his mind.

At least he's not afraid to air his opinion unlike "l hear" Biggs and his recycled "info".

 

[Sean Thornton]

The comparative wealth of the poster and the owner of the club aren't relevant. People's view on what constitutes appropriate levels of investment/expenditure are usually based upon comparison with other Championship clubs of similar size. In the most part the figures mentioned on here are within the realms of reality. We're the 68th biggest club in Europe on attendances this season, situated in the continent's 86th largest city currently playing in the 2nd tier of the wealthiest football league structure in the world. I welcome the time that we start acting & thinking like it.

Paying upwards of £2m for a player is common place in the Championship and should be for a team of our stature.

Certain people need to crap or get off the pot at this club for it move forward.

Stating the obvious whilst ignoring the elephant in the room that the money may not be there.

 

[Sean Thornton]

3 to 4 million for a club that's just raked in 7 is fucking pathetic never mind modest
Pity well only spend half
What's half of modest ?