Sheffield clubs: The Transfer Policies

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Deano said:
The fact the pigs have so far wasted a lot of money does not alter the fact that in the majority of cases the bigger the budget, the more chance you have of success. Of course there are exceptions but any proper analysis will show a clear link between budget and success.

Wilder has done a great job so far but the pitiful budget he appears to have been given (for a club of our size) will definitely make it more dufficult to keep progressing.

Wilder and new, richer and more ambitious owners would be the ideal scenario.
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pitiful budget ? , surely its Wilder that sets his needs , hes the one selecting keen hungry players rather than as he puts it spunking money on flash bottlers
we will have spent around going on for 5 million now , by my reckoning , more than half the division
and havent finished yet
 



blade too long said:
but surely the police have similarly been changed ,
they are under the crime commisioner now a totally different method of rule


and the council like all council can change from labour to lib dem etc

its in your opinion , not changed
but swfc still claim to have won 4 league titles and 3 fa cups despite not being the same entity oh and I believe they had won one league cup more recently . but that was prior to the changes
surely to avoid prosecution they must deny their total past
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My opinion is totally irrelevant mate (bookmark that one for posterity). Just trying my Limited (you can have that one) best to explain the law.

Coppers can and are being individually prosecuted for their alleged criminality. Civil process is different. Of course they could be sued in their own names, but why take on the often very difficult legal and evidential burden of proving negligence etc. against PC Bloggs when you can capture the whole fucking lot of them by bringing an action against the CC? Not only that, he has unlimited dosh to pay the damages; they don't.
 
Deano said:
The fact the pigs have so far wasted a lot of money does not alter the fact that in the majority of cases the bigger the budget, the more chance you have of success. Of course there are exceptions but any proper analysis will show a clear link between budget and success.

Wilder has done a great job so far but the pitiful budget he appears to have been given (for a club of our size) will definitely make it more dufficult to keep progressing.

Wilder and new, richer and more ambitious owners would be the ideal scenario.
Click to expand...


There's a clear link between handling a budget wisely and success. Lots of clubs have spent big and failed miserably. One of them managed by a certain Mr Robson.

You do see though, unlike some, that genuinely big spending is only likely to come with new owners with a much bigger money tree than the current two have,
 
The great thing about our current strategy is that it allows for transfers coming in that don't work. If you buy a Hussey and it doesn't work out you just buy a Lafferty. Then try a Stephens, if that proves to be an upgrade then great - if not then we go back to Lafferty.

When you buy a player for a few million and it doesn't work out and you don't have bottomless pockets then you're stuck - you can't afford to replace them but you can't sell them either, other than at a huge loss, because their performance doesn't look good and has reduced their value. So you've started a downward spiral.

On average only 50% of transfers deliver what is expected of them - the difference is that as long as you can just replace the failures you are on an ever increasing curve, but when you can't you slowly suffocate, unless your funding is effectively infinite - i.e. you can afford to pay 50 million and get shot of a failure for 10 million.

As Shakespeare would say vaulting ambition is dangerous (o'er leaps itself and falls on t'other!) so let's stick with Tufty's steady continuous improvement and patience will be rewarded in the end. Never bet what you can't afford to lose.

UTB - The Magic is Back
 
dannysufc_ said:
Wendy: Chucking money at it till it clicks (lets be honest as much as some might not to admit it they're not far away)

Us: Giving Wilder relative spare change and hoping for him to pull a few rabbits out of hats


You can look at it two ways...But they've made some tragic signings, Hutton would be the latest.
I'd rather Wilder had a bigger budget, definitely. Think he's earned it.
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Can't agree with that.
Pigs- Spending around £40m a year more than they are earning.
United- Spending £6m more than they earn.

That is not spare change, and whether we like it or not we do not generate the incomes needed to fund a larger budget in the championship. We are relying on someone throwing their own funds in. And I believe our owners have committed as much as they are prepared to do at this time.
So many clubs have cocked it up in a similar way to the pigs, and I have seen nothing at all to make me think they are going to get it right any time soon. The money they are spending is not necessary, and the players on the sums they are signing that would make a difference are playing in the premier league, they have no reason to go to the pigs. In other words, the good premier league players being paid £40k a week have options to stay there.


As for wishing he had a larger budget, yes it would be nice. But how? Lose more money and just hope we get away with it? Or earn it through a hard earned and gradual success? Because at the moment, all that has been earned is the budget we have now. If we gain some success this season....or flog a player or two...then perhaps Wilder will earn a larger budget again.
 
blade too long said:
pitiful budget ? , surely its Wilder that sets his needs , hes the one selecting keen hungry players rather than as he puts it spunking money on flash bottlers
we will have spent around going on for 5 million now , by my reckoning , more than half the division
and havent finished yet
Click to expand...
How do you gather 5mil?

Lundstram supposedly 500k
Thomas around 100k max
Ched was certainly no more than 200k
Stearman will have cost under a mil
Baldock maybe 500k
Stevens was free
 
ucandomagic said:
The great thing about our current strategy is that it allows for transfers coming in that don't work. If you buy a Hussey and it doesn't work out you just buy a Lafferty. Then try a Stephens, if that proves to be an upgrade then great - if not then we go back to Lafferty.

When you buy a player for a few million and it doesn't work out and you don't have bottomless pockets then you're stuck - you can't afford to replace them but you can't sell them either, other than at a huge loss, because their performance doesn't look good and has reduced their value. So you've started a downward spiral.

On average only 50% of transfers deliver what is expected of them - the difference is that as long as you can just replace the failures you are on an ever increasing curve, but when you can't you slowly suffocate, unless your funding is effectively infinite - i.e. you can afford to pay 50 million and get shot of a failure for 10 million.

As Shakespeare would say vaulting ambition is dangerous (o'er leaps itself and falls on t'other!) so let's stick with Tufty's steady continuous improvement and patience will be rewarded in the end. Never bet what you can't afford to lose.

UTB - The Magic is Back
Click to expand...

Shakespeare quoted...it is indeed. Now which play was that?.... :)
 



Pinchy said:
Very good. I hope you're now performing some bizarre luvvy contortionist ritual.

Maybe not, actually. You didn't say it.
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I'm going to wrestle ISC on a carpet in front of a big fire actually.
 
Pinchy said:
Shakespeare quoted...it is indeed. Now which play was that?.... :)
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Macbeth - the greatest play of them all -

I have no spur
To prick the sides of my intent, but only
Vaulting ambition, which o'erleaps itself,
And falls on th'other...

I misquoted slightly and turned th'other into the Yorkshire version t'other!
 
One for most Blades on here:

Fool: If thou wert my fool, nuncle, I’d have thee beaten for being old before thy time.

LEAR
How’s that?

FOOL
Thou shouldst not have been old till thou hadst been wise.
 
nopigfansintown said:
One for most Blades on here:

Fool: If thou wert my fool, nuncle, I’d have thee beaten for being old before thy time.

LEAR
How’s that?

FOOL
Thou shouldst not have been old till thou hadst been wise.
Click to expand...

We're all old before our time.
 
Pinchy said:
I should think we rejoice but ask them to be careful we don't become a Portsmouth, Leeds or (I believe time will tell) Pigs. It's make or break for the grunters next season. I've a strong feeling it won't be make.
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What about if we came a Man City or a Chelsea- are you revealing a bit of an inferiority complex here?

Only in S2 :rolleyes:
 
I'm happy with our strategy so far, although I'd like a little relaxation in terms of fees.

However, I'm uncomfortable with all this laughing at Wednesday's plan. I'll laugh when we finish above them.
 
Pinchy said:
My opinion is totally irrelevant mate (bookmark that one for posterity). Just trying my Limited (you can have that one) best to explain the law.

Coppers can and are being individually prosecuted for their alleged criminality. Civil process is different. Of course they could be sued in their own names, but why take on the often very difficult legal and evidential burden of proving negligence etc. against PC Bloggs when you can capture the whole fucking lot of them by bringing an action against the CC? Not only that, he has unlimited dosh to pay the damages; they don't.
Click to expand...
But if the police pay out .We pay it in reality as we fund it. What a silly system it is .
Yet the corporate ones like Wednesday seemingly can avoid compo claims by just changing what in effect is a title. Surely the police should change their name to police of South Yorkshire 2017 to avoid all claims if it works for some
 
dannysufc_ said:
How do you gather 5mil?

Lundstram supposedly 500k
Thomas around 100k max
Ched was certainly no more than 200k
Stearman will have cost under a mil
Baldock maybe 500k
Stevens was free
Click to expand...
Think that's the anti McCabe brigades valuations which tends to be 50 to 80 per cent below reality.Mate here who's a wolves fan reckons 1.6 m is about right on stearman
 
blade too long said:
Think that's the anti McCabe brigades valuations which tends to be 50 to 80 per cent below reality
Click to expand...
No it's the realist brigade that don't live in a fantasy world thinking we've paid over the odds for these players.
 



BushBlade said:
The money for the signings (and it was one full back, not multiples) came straight out of our owners' pockets. That's why the accounts show a big loss. The club has lost money every season since we got relegated from the PL. I'll be extremely surprised if we don't make a loss this season.
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What i'm trying to ascertain is what justified that period of spending. Ie. If it was ok to spend then, then why not now when we need it more?

If it wasn't justified, and was in fact mindless 'spunkin moneh', then of course we can say it was a mistake and our policy now is more sensible and realistic.

If it relied on our owners pockets as you say then basically, it comes down to their decision. Some clubs are run in this way and see success from it, but is only sustainable related to how deep the owners pockets are, and how willing they are to throw their money away. Some owners are like this. I have no expectations that ours should be, and don't mind them running the club in a smarter fashion.

My only point is that they've been inconsistent in their attitudes to financing the club: bank-rolling a large squad under previous managers but reverting to a more stringent approach under Wilder. As long as we steadily progress i've no problem with this, but just wondering why the change, and why particularly now when our success is growing.

Put simply, we either have the money or we dont. If we dont then fair enough carry on as we are. If we do then why not spend more now we are promoted. If it turns out we don't then the conclusion can only be that it was just irresponsible management to adopt the policy we had before.
 
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