Sunderland considerably richer

[nopigfansintown]

To be honest, I still think we've had Everton over.

He will wind up a league 1 player. Still a decent career mind.

He'll certainly have a more lucrative career: http://www.skysports.com/football/n...inic-calvert-lewin-to-sign-new-five-year-deal

 

[nopigfansintown]

Life in retrospect is easy, when DCL was sold hardly anyone thought that we had not got a good deal.

Drop it , move on!

This was my comment at the time: "Hugely disappointed with this if true. Regular watchers of the youth teams will know he has outstanding potential"(Page 7). https://www.s24su.com/forum/index.php?threads/calvert-lewin-sold-to-everton.47623/page-7
We do need to move on though, and acknowledge that the money was put to good use. Lets hope he fulfills all the contract clauses.

 

[Champagneblade]

Easy to look back in retrospect, but at the level we operate, managing a tight budget is expected.

Selling Calvert-Lewin and Adams facilitated us financing the arrivals of Fleck, O'Connor and Moore to name but three key players.

It also helped to finance a realistic promotion bid that ended up with 100 points and a fantastic season.

It's probably to some extent allowed Wilder to acquire the very highly rated Stevens and Baldock therefore giving us good depth at full back for a few years. Not to mention a promising young winger, 'unplayable' on his day and Evans, of which much is already written.

Can't have your cake and eat it. I'd take starting the season without Calvert-Lewin and being a division higher than being in League One last year and keeping him. Nothing suggested he would be a regular last season. Good luck to him though.

 

[grafikhaus]

Great logic, starts for Everton, but not good enough for Sheffield United!

We all know that DCL is way off being the finished article and so do Everton. He's far more likely to progress with better players around him, as he will have at Everton. But Everton come in with £1m. What do we say? Can you come back in six months when we'll see if he's got better, in which time his price will have gone up?

DCL is exactly like Maguire - better players around him so he looks better. No doubt if we flogged Reed and he miraculously turned into a world-beater, we'd be having the same conversation.

 

[FriethBlade]

That's why I ran for cover. A few points, if we never hang on to our young talent we will find it difficult to progress. Historically we have sold out better players and reinvested in worse players hence our tenure in the lower leagues the last couple of decades.

I thought with the Prince arriving this might change and maybe it will. If it doesn't we are completely reliant on the manager being able to bring better players in. In the case of Wilder so far this is working, every other manager the last 20 yrs failed to do that, they brought in too many overpaid, past it, higher league players.

We also need to move with the time, £5m nowadays is peanuts in the premier league especially for young English players. When we sell them don't sell them at 1990s prices.

Finally I give you a defence of Naughton, Jags, Maguire, Walker......we'd have done pretty well with that lot but sold Em and bought sh1te....runs for cover

 

[Garibaldi]

We also need to move with the time, £5m nowadays is peanuts in the premier league especially for young English players. When we sell them don't sell them at 1990s prices.

Exactly. Some clubs (Brentford comes to mind) always seem to get top dollar when they sell. Must be something in the air around here because both Sheffield clubs have a history of selling players for peanuts.

 

[YES Blade]

We all know that DCL is way off being the finished article and so do Everton. He's far more likely to progress with better players around him, as he will have at Everton. But Everton come in with £1m. What do we say? Can you come back in six months when we'll see if he's got better, in which time his price will have gone up?

DCL is exactly like Maguire - better players around him so he looks better. No doubt if we flogged Reed and he miraculously turned into a world-beater, we'd be having the same conversation.

Maguire made the League One team of the year three times with us, luckily he had Collins alongside him helping him play well!

I'm not saying it's easy to keep young players when Prem clubs come along, but I don't see why we can't get top money like other clubs do? We just seem to be desperate to sell and intimidated by Premier League clubs.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

Maguire made the League One team of the year three times with us, luckily he had Collins alongside him helping him play well!

I'm not saying it's easy to keep young players when Prem clubs come along, but I don't see why we can't get top money like other clubs do? We just seem to be desperate to sell and intimidated by Premier League clubs.

So last season Everton and evert other club refused to pay your £3 million minimum,you would have been happy to go the season with George Long in goal,Chris Hussey at left back and the lad with potential on the bench at best or playing for our u23s?

 

[B14Nco]

League 1 teams don't get top money for players that have played very little. Callum Wilson was blatantly good enough to be a starting forward in the championship and Coventry got 3mill for him. He had played and scored a bucket load. It's unrealistic to think we should have got anywhere near that.

 

[unitedbhoy]

It's easy for people to throw their teddy out the pram now because of his goal for the U20's at the weekend.

People didn't argue when we sold him - he wasn't near getting a start in the first team. In my opinion he was nowhere near the level and we needed instant impact. He funded other signings who got us promoted. It WAS a great deal for us at the time.

When he's played for Everton he has looked incredibly out of his depth, so in answer to a previous question no I don't think he'd be good enough for our first team next season either.

Wish him good luck and move on.

 

[grafikhaus]

Maguire made the League One team of the year three times with us, luckily he had Collins alongside him helping him play well!

I'm not saying it's easy to keep young players when Prem clubs come along, but I don't see why we can't get top money like other clubs do? We just seem to be desperate to sell and intimidated by Premier League clubs.

Fair point, but... I well remember Maguire starring in the 2011 Youth Cup Final v. Man. U. One of the stand-out performers for Manchester that evening was a certain Paul Pogba. The following year, he was released to Juventus on a free transfer only for Manchester to buy him back in 2016 for £89.3 million. Now that's a transfer fuck up!

 

[YES Blade]

So last season Everton and evert other club refused to pay your £3 million minimum,you would have been happy to go the season with George Long in goal,Chris Hussey at left back and the lad with potential on the bench at best or playing for our u23s?

Moore was already at the club when we sold DCL, maybe that's why we were desperate to sell him, we spent £500k on a keeper and shit ourselves.

The rest of the transfers were made in January, by that point we were in the mix for the title and it's feasible to suggest that the board would have provided backing anyway.

 

[B14Nco]

End of the day it's worked out well for us. Let's stop trying to find things to whinge about and move on.

 

[Enigmatic]

Moore was already at the club when we sold DCL, maybe that's why we were desperate to sell him, we spent £500k on a keeper and shit ourselves.

The rest of the transfers were made in January, by that point we were in the mix for the title and it's feasible to suggest that the board would have provided backing anyway.

The point still stands that it was a good deal for us at the time. With the luxury of hindsight you can turn it into a bad deal, but it wasn't, and dare I say still isn't. We received a decent fee, attached a tidy sell-on clause, and garnered greater recognition for our highly-rated academy. Parents and young players will see the quality our academy produces, and take heart that we don't kick up a stink when someone wants to do business. Instead we are prepared to strike a fair deal for all parties. By taking a hard stance it will put off the better players from joining our academy and staying with us.

Whilst I take your point that it would be nice to no longer be seen as a soft touch when selling our best talent (something I think we have addressed and are continually improving on), you simply can't stand in the way of talented players when a team further up the pyramid comes calling. It wouldn't have been fair to deny DCL the kind of money he will have earned at Everton, while there wasn't even a guarantee he would have played any sort of role in our first team.

Now we are in the Championship, we are in a stronger position to negotiate even better deals. However, that's not to say that when (and I use that word on purpose, because it is a matter of time when you possess young talents like Brooks and Whiteman) premier league clubs show interest in the future we won't still do a deal. But you can be sure that we won't be taken for a ride anymore.

The bottom line is the departures like this are inevitable, and the only way you can stand any chance of holding onto young players when the bigger boys come calling is by giving them regular first team football. This hasn't been possible for us in recent years, and it is likely to remain that way for the foreseeable future.

 

[Chief_Froley]

I know a lot of people mention how 1m isn't a lot of money for a premier league club but we still have to bear in mind that there is still an element of risk for clubs like Everton. I'd imagine that their U23 squad is pretty much full of players like DCL who have come from other clubs for decent sums and over time that cost adds up.

Out of that only one or two might actually get a sniff of first team football and even fewer than that will actually become first team quality. By that point you've spent money on an entire U23s squad to only just get a first team quality player!

True, there's going to be a player who comes along, develops well and offsets costs by becoming world class players (see Lukaku) but at the same time that will have come at the cost of purchasing and developing a heck of a lot of players at youth level and even at first team level only for them to not fulfil their potential.

For every Romelu Lukaku we have to remember that Everton will have gone through a shit load of Jose Baxters just to eventually get there!

 

[BushBlade]

The point still stands that it was a good deal for us at the time. With the luxury of hindsight you can turn it into a bad deal, but it wasn't, and dare I say still isn't. We received a decent fee, attached a tidy sell-on clause, and garnered greater recognition for our highly-rated academy. Parents and young players will see the quality our academy produces, and take heart that we don't kick up a stink when someone wants to do business. Instead we are prepared to strike a fair deal for all parties. By taking a hard stance it will put off the better players from joining our academy and staying with us.

Whilst I take your point that it would be nice to no longer be seen as a soft touch when selling our best talent (something I think we have addressed and are continually improving on), you simply can't stand in the way of talented players when a team further up the pyramid comes calling. It wouldn't have been fair to deny DCL the kind of money he will have earned at Everton, while there wasn't even a guarantee he would have played any sort of role in our first team.

Now we are in the Championship, we are in a stronger position to negotiate even better deals. However, that's not to say that when (and I use that word on purpose, because it is a matter of time when you possess young talents like Brooks and Whiteman) premier league clubs show interest in the future we won't still do a deal. But you can be sure that we won't be taken for a ride anymore.

The bottom line is the departures like this are inevitable, and the only way you can stand any chance of holding onto young players when the bigger boys come calling is by giving them regular first team football. This hasn't been possible for us in recent years, and it is likely to remain that way for the foreseeable future.

You wonder if Brooks would have signed a new contract if we were the type of club to refuse young players a move to a PL club. I think most of our kids trust us to do right by them. As you say, kids and their parents will look at this and it's greatly in our favour.

 

[YES Blade]

The point still stands that it was a good deal for us at the time. With the luxury of hindsight you can turn it into a bad deal, but it wasn't, and dare I say still isn't. We received a decent fee, attached a tidy sell-on clause, and garnered greater recognition for our highly-rated academy. Parents and young players will see the quality our academy produces, and take heart that we don't kick up a stink when someone wants to do business. Instead we are prepared to strike a fair deal for all parties. By taking a hard stance it will put off the better players from joining our academy and staying with us.

Whilst I take your point that it would be nice to no longer be seen as a soft touch when selling our best talent (something I think we have addressed and are continually improving on), you simply can't stand in the way of talented players when a team further up the pyramid comes calling. It wouldn't have been fair to deny DCL the kind of money he will have earned at Everton, while there wasn't even a guarantee he would have played any sort of role in our first team.

Now we are in the Championship, we are in a stronger position to negotiate even better deals. However, that's not to say that when (and I use that word on purpose, because it is a matter of time when you possess young talents like Brooks and Whiteman) premier league clubs show interest in the future we won't still do a deal. But you can be sure that we won't be taken for a ride anymore.

The bottom line is the departures like this are inevitable, and the only way you can stand any chance of holding onto young players when the bigger boys come calling is by giving them regular first team football. This hasn't been possible for us in recent years, and it is likely to remain that way for the foreseeable future.

I don't see how asking a young player to stay until he is 21/22 is too much to ask, unless a decent offer comes in e.g. similar to what Charlton got for Lookman.

We're aren't a charity that gives young players a chance to make it in the big league, we need to be able to compete against other clubs and selling your best young talent at the first opportunity isn't going to help.

We should be looking to copy Southampton, they got £11m rising to £15m for Oxlade-Chamberlain in 2011, now I know that DCL wasn't at that level when we sold him, but it's still a League One club selling to the Premier League. They have proven that you can let players move on, whilst still getting a good deal in the process.

 

[bladesmanluke]

Let's be honest, most of our fans would snap their hands off for £3m for David Brooks. If he was at another club, he's worth closer to £10m

 

[YES Blade]

Let's be honest, most of our fans would snap their hands off for £3m for David Brooks. If he was at another club, he's worth closer to £10m

£3m? Reading this thread, many would take £1m because we can't stand in the lads way and it wouldn't be fair on him.

The interests of United are at the bottom of the priority list behind what's best for the player and a Premier League club getting a good deal.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

Moore was already at the club when we sold DCL, maybe that's why we were desperate to sell him, we spent £500k on a keeper and shit ourselves.

The rest of the transfers were made in January, by that point we were in the mix for the title and it's feasible to suggest that the board would have provided backing anyway.

Lafferty arrived before January,as did EEL who was also on loan but wages would still need to be payed,Chris had to make important decisions after the Southend debacle,you are looking back with hindsight,

 

[Tunstall Fred]

£3m? Reading this thread, many would take £1m because we can't stand in the lads way and it wouldn't be fair on him.

The interests of United are at the bottom of the priority list behind what's best for the player and a Premier League club getting a good deal.

Brooks has played even less 1st team games than DCL,he is a fine prospect,he has just had an outstanding tournament,let's see how he goes on in league football next season before rushing to how much he is worth,if the rumours about him signing a contract until 2020 are correct,that should tell you how much United value him as one for the future,did you moan like this when Jordan Slew left ?
I

 

[Tunstall Fred]

Let's be honest, most of our fans would snap their hands off for £3m for David Brooks. If he was at another club, he's worth closer to £10m

I hope you are correct,but can't help feeling you aren't being very realistic

 

[stringer]

But my preference would have been to keep him another 2 or 3 years and develop him into a £10m or even £20m player.

The difference between a side of:

Long
Freeman Wilson O'Connell Hussey
Duffy Fleck Basham Done
Sharp Clarke

(Bench: DCL)

and

Moore
Freeman Basham EEL O'Connell Lafferty
Fleck Coutts
Duffy
Sharp Clarke

(Bench: Hanson)

Would the first side have romped the league with 100 points? On the evidence of the first four games, probably not. It needed strengthening by Moore/EEL/Lafferty et al, and the sale of DCL helped facilitate that. Don't forget he never looked like scoring for United, and the miss against Crewe infront of the Kop was one of the worst I've ever seen. Hindsight's a wonderful thing but Championship football is the end product of the sale.

 

[B14Nco]

I don't see how asking a young player to stay until he is 21/22 is too much to ask, unless a decent offer comes in e.g. similar to what Charlton got for Lookman.

We're aren't a charity that gives young players a chance to make it in the big league, we need to be able to compete against other clubs and selling your best young talent at the first opportunity isn't going to help.

We should be looking to copy Southampton, they got £11m rising to £15m for Oxlade-Chamberlain in 2011, now I know that DCL wasn't at that level when we sold him, but it's still a League One club selling to the Premier League. They have proven that you can let players move on, whilst still getting a good deal in the process.

I've only just realised you're not serious... you can't be.

Look Dom, Everton want you, they're going to quadruple your wage, I know your agent wants you to go and I know that Chris has said you're not quite ready to play in the first team... but we're wanting you to stay for another couple of years? At which point if you're not ready we'll probably not renew your contract... whaddayasay?

 

[unitedbhoy]

The difference between a side of:

Long
Freeman Wilson O'Connell Hussey
Duffy Fleck Basham Done
Sharp Clarke

(Bench: DCL)

and

Moore
Freeman Basham EEL O'Connell Lafferty
Fleck Coutts
Duffy
Sharp Clarke

(Bench: Hanson)

Would the first side have romped the league with 100 points? On the evidence of the first four games, probably not. It needed strengthening by Moore/EEL/Lafferty et al, and the sale of DCL helped facilitate that. Don't forget he never looked like scoring for United, and the miss against Crewe infront of the Kop was one of the worst I've ever seen. Hindsight's a wonderful thing but Championship football is the end product of the sale.

Stop talking common sense! Can't you see people are angry we sold him!

 

[YES Blade]

The difference between a side of:

Long
Freeman Wilson O'Connell Hussey
Duffy Fleck Basham Done
Sharp Clarke

(Bench: DCL)

and

Moore
Freeman Basham EEL O'Connell Lafferty
Fleck Coutts
Duffy
Sharp Clarke

(Bench: Hanson)

Would the first side have romped the league with 100 points? On the evidence of the first four games, probably not. It needed strengthening by Moore/EEL/Lafferty et al, and the sale of DCL helped facilitate that. Don't forget he never looked like scoring for United, and the miss against Crewe infront of the Kop was one of the worst I've ever seen. Hindsight's a wonderful thing but Championship football is the end product of the sale.

Moore was already signed, did we keep the receipt so we could return him to Cardiff if the DCL deal fell through? Was Coutts not allowed to play until we sold DCL? What about Jake Wright have you forgotten about the impact he had?

Basically you can twist the team selection to suit your point or you could look at what was available and pick the strongest team available:

Moore
Basham - Wright - O'Connell
Freeman - Fleck - Coutts - Hussey/Done
Duffy
Sharp - Clarke

Doesn't look too bad to me, that's also assuming that we would have had no chance of signing Lafferty and EEL if DCL stayed. My argument is, lets show some ambition and look to the future, keep the young talent and have a competitive budget for present.

 

[Tunstall Fred]

Moore was already signed, did we keep the receipt so we could return him to Cardiff if the DCL deal fell through? Was Coutts not allowed to play until we sold DCL? What about Jake Wright have you forgotten about the impact he had?

Basically you can twist the team selection to suit your point or you could look at what was available and pick the strongest team available:

Moore
Basham - Wright - O'Connell
Freeman - Fleck - Coutts - Hussey/Done
Duffy
Sharp - Clarke

Doesn't look too bad to me, that's also assuming that we would have had no chance of signing Lafferty and EEL if DCL stayed. My argument is, lets show some ambition and look to the future, keep the young talent and have a competitive budget for present.

Hussey or Done at left back,wing back,you are having a laugh,we did show some ambition,we sold a young player,brought others in and romped the league

 

[itsinyerblood]

The difference between a side of:

Long
Freeman Wilson O'Connell Hussey
Duffy Fleck Basham Done
Sharp Clarke

(Bench: DCL)

and

Moore
Freeman Basham EEL O'Connell Lafferty
Fleck Coutts
Duffy
Sharp Clarke

(Bench: Hanson)

Would the first side have romped the league with 100 points? On the evidence of the first four games, probably not. It needed strengthening by Moore/EEL/Lafferty et al, and the sale of DCL helped facilitate that. Don't forget he never looked like scoring for United, and the miss against Crewe infront of the Kop was one of the worst I've ever seen. Hindsight's a wonderful thing but Championship football is the end product of the sale.

Agree with your assessment of DCL Danny. The reason his appearances for United were restricted were simple, he failed to impress, therefore to get over a million for him made business sense. If it contributed to the building of the side that won promotion it made even more sense. So far he's played a few games for Everton's first team, plus he's played as a youth international. How many of these lads end up with careers at the top level remains to be seen. Time will tell if he's improved enough to be regarded as a decent, top flight professional.

 

[stringer]

Moore was already signed, did we keep the receipt so we could return him to Cardiff if the DCL deal fell through? Was Coutts not allowed to play until we sold DCL? What about Jake Wright have you forgotten about the impact he had?

Basically you can twist the team selection to suit your point or you could look at what was available and pick the strongest team available:

Moore
Basham - Wright - O'Connell
Freeman - Fleck - Coutts - Hussey/Done
Duffy
Sharp - Clarke

Doesn't look too bad to me, that's also assuming that we would have had no chance of signing Lafferty and EEL if DCL stayed. My argument is, lets show some ambition and look to the future, keep the young talent and have a competitive budget for present.

You said it yourself, DCL didn't even get in your strongest XI and you were happy to play an entire season with Hussey or Done at LWB instead, to turn down £1.5m and keep him on the bench?

 

[YES Blade]

You said it yourself, DCL didn't even get in your strongest XI and you were happy to play an entire season with Hussey or Done at LWB instead, to turn down £1.5m and keep him on the bench?

I didn't say I was happy with Hussey or Done, I basically saying at your team including DCL is bullshit. Why did you choose Long over Moore when Moore was at the club? Basham over Coutts in midfield?

The team that ended the season was at the club when DCL was still there, we were short one player, Lafferty. How can you say that selling DCL funded the team when we were only one player short?