Morons Chucking Flares and Smoke Bombs

[exmoor beast]

You might find the club will incur penalties next season if it's not stamped out, don't shoot the messenger.

 

[bladesmanluke]

I was towards the back corner and I had an asthma attack and died and then caught fire and died again. Ban them at once!

 

[1danewhitehouse]

we've got to get used to them. .

We haven't. We've got to be more effective in clamping down on the idiots who refuse to take notice of the club's wishes and the law. Maybe Wilder needs to have a word. Seems to have worked with the pitch invasion.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

If you are taking a young boy, why would you take him on the kop anyway? If you are a ST holder on the kop, swap it for the family stand and buy him a ticket there. For a start, he will actually be able to see the game and I have never seen s flare go off there.

Shouldn't have to. I sit on the kop and my lad has a season ticket there. He goes now and again and when he does, he/ I shouldn't have to worry about some nobhead causing him physical harm with smoke bombs/ flares etc.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Be interesting to see if all the bitches who whine about leg room on the Kop are the ones who see no problem with smoke bombs!

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Not digging out the O/P in particular here, but speaking more generally. This referring to fellow Blades as "morons" or suchlike. Happens far, far too often.

We all know it isn't just those who chuck flares who are being seen as "morons". It's also those who use them, those who associate with those who use them, those who join in with the singing etc when a flare's let off, those who condone flares, those who don't criticise the use of flares, etc, etc, etc.

Take the (amazing) scenes from MK for instance. Are all those in that concourse involved in such joyous scenes "morons", or just "us"?

My own view is that the atmosphere at MK was fantastic and would have been without the flares. I'd say the morons are those that choose to smuggle them in and set them off. I want to follow my team and create an atmosphere and always will. But it makes me feel a little uneasy to align myself with the nobheads who do that. Some don't have an issue with it but most wouldn't be stupid or inconsiderate enough to do it. I wouldn't call those people morons. Just people who's views I don't share.

 

[djbaldken]

Except that it was caused by a dropped match.

Dropped match,dropped flare, technically two different items. Reality same possible outcome. Life threatening inferno.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Safe to assume that "morons" created (& sing) the "Jack O'Connell's Magic" song, with its wanton use of the word "fucker".

Why is it safe to assume? Is there a direct correlation between pyro and singing in support of your club? Can only mindless criminals sing football songs?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I almost got hit by one at Port Vale, it didn't bother me nearly as much as the brick which nearly hit me outside.

Bottles were thrown yesterday, passers by could've been really hurt. This is the idiocy we should be focusing on in my opinion.

The solution has to be.

Pyro throwing idiots should direct them at bottle and brick throwing idiots and the bottle and brick throwing idiots direct at the pyro idiots. All the bellends are wiped out and the rest of us can actually enjoy the footy.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Why is it safe to assume? Is there a direct correlation between pyro and singing in support of your club? Can only mindless criminals sing football songs?

There's a distinction to be made here.

On the one hand you've got the those willing to throw lit flares into a crowd without any concern for the consequences (i.e. cunts).

On the other, there's those who use pyro/those with and around them/those who involve themselves in the atmosphere created or enhanced by the flares/those who appreciate the atmosphere created/those who condone them/those who don't condemn them.

I just don't agree with your premise of "mindless criminality".

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I don't disagree. My point is that whilst throwing a flare or smoke cannister is an act of stupidity and shouldn't go unpunished, the throwing of a brick or a bottle is an act of malice and done with the intention of causing even more severe injury.
A flare will hurt me but a well aimed brick will kill me outright.

It's a matter of degree. I just think that the argument against pyrotechnics is taking precedence over a far more serious problem which isn't being addressed.

It's a fair point but pyro is an issue with this club at this moment. It keeps happening and unfortunately, there are plenty who keep defending it as being OK. It's accepted by pretty much everyone that brick throwing is not OK and it's not a tendency of our fans which the club has had to come out and repeatedly make statements about. Yes. Throwing a brick is worse than throwing a flare. But throwing a flare is still unacceptable. It's the fact that some can't seem to comprehend that that is the problem.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

There's a distinction to be made here.

On the one hand you've got the those willing to throw lit flares into a crowd without any concern for the consequences (i.e. cunts). On the other, those who use pyro/those with and around them/those who involve themselves in the atmosphere created or enhanced by the flares/those who appreciate the atmosphere created/those who condone them/those who don't condemn them.

I just don't agree with your premise of "mindless criminality".

I suppose it's subjective. I don't agree with your premise that the pyro creates or enhances the atmosphere. We can see on here it's a divisive issue so it seems more likely it will put people off joining in with those who are doing it because they are fundamentally against the use of the pyro.

 

[More Bladier than thou]

I think its Dortmund who have a safe section for flares and smoke bombs. Just a few seats but they have extinguishers and buckets of water. They never had an issue, also they have safe standing. They also have have arguably the best atmosphere in world football. We should give it a try......

 

[Paulus]

I was towards the back corner and I had an asthma attack and died and then caught fire and died again. Ban them at once!

https://www.asthma.org.uk/about/media/facts-and-statistics/

I'm getting fucking sick of the criminal apologists on this and other similar threads - hope you fucking die in a totally avoidable manner - I'll make a joke about it on here as well.

 

[The white wall]

I wish the throwing of a flare would stop getting even mentioned on the same subject as the horrific Bradford fire disaster. It's not even comparable and never will be even if someone was unfortunate enough to get hit by one. The stand at valley parade went up in seconds for all the reasons mentioned before and killed 56 people. If you tried to set a modern-day stand on fire you would still be there now. I personally think smoke bombs are pretty harmless, as for flares they are safe enough if used responsibly and not by some tw*t who's stupid enough to throw it. After saying this I have to admit I think they do look fantastic especially on some of the recent photos.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

I don't disagree. My point is that whilst throwing a flare or smoke cannister is an act of stupidity and shouldn't go unpunished, the throwing of a brick or a bottle is an act of malice and done with the intention of causing even more severe injury.
A flare will hurt me but a well aimed brick will kill me outright.

It's a matter of degree. I just think that the argument against pyrotechnics is taking precedence over a far more serious problem which isn't being addressed.

It's a good point. But, pyro tends to take place WITHIN the ground (club have almost total duty and responsibility) whereas brick throwing mostly happens outside the ground (less so a club issue). Clubs get very jumpy about activity within the ground, which might explain why it's high profile, also somebody chucking stuff at you outside the ground, you have theoretically a chance to get out the way of it, clamped into a seat on the kop you are literally a sitting duck.

 

[Paulus]

The White Wall [QUOTE=". I personally think smoke bombs are pretty harmless.[/QUOTE]

Possibly because you haven't got the brains or imagination to consider what the effect of a dramatically increased level of localised air pollution can have on someone with already restricted lung function.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

How do these smoke bombs always manage to hit children in the face, or the elderly with breathing difficulties.

It isn't just the elderly that have breathing difficulties.

People of all ages, from 3 to 103 have asthma, COPD, CF and so on.

Smoke kind of moves in the air you know, it doesn't discriminate.

 

[Northyorksblade]

Shouldn't have to. I sit on the kop and my lad has a season ticket there. He goes now and again and when he does, he/ I shouldn't have to worry about some nobhead causing him physical harm with smoke bombs/ flares etc.

I'm not talking about that really, so much as when there is any action near the goal and everyone stands up. how can a child see anything?

 

[shorehamview]

..............as for flares they are safe enough if used responsibly.....................

You mean marine distress flares? Essential kit, if you are going to sea in a boat. I would suggest that wearing a Helly Hansen jacket on the Kop isn't enough of a requirement to carry flares into a ground though.

From Wikipedia -

In forestry and firefighting, fusees are sometimes used in wildland fire suppression and in the ignition of controlled burns. They ignite at 191 °C (376 °F) and burn as hot as 1,600 °C (2,900 °F).

Now, I'm not a scientist, but those temperatures seem rather warm to me. I'm fairly certain that even the hottest of pies available from the excellent catering facilities at Bramall Lane aren't that hot. And I would imagine that if a flare was to hit you, thrown perhaps by some scallywag who didn't fancy being chucked out and banned from the ground for using said flare, that it may just smart a little. Still, that's just my opinion, for what it's worth.

 

[Gerritforud]

I'm not talking about that really, so much as when there is any action near the goal and everyone stands up. how can a child see anything?

Mine simply stand on the seat.

 

[HuddersfieldBlade]

When will people stop taking flares and smoke bombs. When someone dies? Anyone who has asthma or has children with asthma know what could happen. I've been in hospital with my son, he spend 2 days on a breathing machine, sedated after his 1st attack a few years ago, would seeing your son in that situation been worth for creating a bit of atmosphere?

 

[FTPE]

When will people stop taking flares and smoke bombs. When someone dies? Anyone who has asthma or has children with asthma know what could happen. I've been in hospital with my son, he spend 2 days on a breathing machine, sedated after his 1st attack a few years ago, would seeing your son in that situation been worth for creating a bit of atmosphere?

If someone ever dies from the smoke from a smoke bomb I will concede that I was wrong.

It isn't just the elderly that have breathing difficulties.

People of all ages, from 3 to 103 have asthma, COPD, CF and so on.

Smoke kind of moves in the air you know, it doesn't discriminate.

One smoke bomb, probably on a different stand to you, in the open air, once every month or so aint putting you in an early grave.
It's hard to stick up for flares when we are such a family club but a few people fake coughing when a smoke bomb goes off isn't changing my view.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Safe to assume that "morons" created (& sing) the "Jack O'Connell's Magic" song, with its wanton use of the word "fucker".

One of the worst developments in the crowd this season has been flares and smoke bombs; one of the best has been the JOC is magic song. No idea whether the same people are responsible for both.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

I wish the throwing of a flare would stop getting even mentioned on the same subject as the horrific Bradford fire disaster. It's not even comparable and never will be even if someone was unfortunate enough to get hit by one. The stand at valley parade went up in seconds for all the reasons mentioned before and killed 56 people. If you tried to set a modern-day stand on fire you would still be there now. I personally think smoke bombs are pretty harmless, as for flares they are safe enough if used responsibly and not by some tw*t who's stupid enough to throw it. After saying this I have to admit I think they do look fantastic especially on some of the recent photos.

They are similar in that those who objected to people smoking in an environment such as a wooden stand were seen as alarmist killjoys. It does not prove that alarmist killjoys are always right, but it suggests that constantly monitoring potential risks at public events is sensible.

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

If someone ever dies from the smoke from a smoke bomb I will concede that I was wrong.

One smoke bomb, probably on a different stand to you, in the open air, once every month or so aint putting you in an early grave.
It's hard to stick up for flares when we are such a family club but a few people fake coughing when a smoke bomb goes off isn't changing my view.

Oh well that makes it alright then.

Somebody did something that broke the law in the next post code along from me but it didn't affect me so that's ok as well is it?

 

[cahill]

If you are taking a young boy, why would you take him on the kop anyway? If you are a ST holder on the kop, swap it for the family stand and buy him a ticket there. For a start, he will actually be able to see the game and I have never seen s flare go off there.

There were plenty of young children around me on the kop with parents and presumably grandparents and they seemed perfectly safe, can't see that it's a Safeguarding matter.

 

[GaryHamsonsLeftBootLace]

If someone ever dies from the smoke from a smoke bomb I will concede that I was wrong.

Not a smoke bomb, but the flares have already taken a life.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-24931711

Edit: I'm all for flares and smoke to create atmosphere but I also know what beer and adrenaline does to youngsters (I was one once, yes, along time ago, but once). I like the idea of legalising them so they can be better controlled, but the how is alluding us all at the moment. Maybe a "licence" to use with proper training given to one or two responsible people, and any rogues dealt with severely?

 

[Paulus]

If someone ever dies from the smoke from a smoke bomb I will concede that I was wrong.

One smoke bomb, probably on a different stand to you, in the open air, once every month or so aint putting you in an early grave.
It's hard to stick up for flares when we are such a family club but a few people fake coughing when a smoke bomb goes off isn't changing my view.

The fucking expert on pulmonary heath has spoken.

 

[FTPE]

Oh well that makes it alright then.

Somebody did something that broke the law in the next post code along from me but it didn't affect me so that's ok as well is it?

I didn't say it did, people are bringing deaths into this.
If someone broke the law by giving off smoke from an illegal bin fire in the next postcode along... nope, wouldnt give a shit.
If there was some nutjob with a shotgun however.