New Formation Required

[Sean Thornton]

I wasn’t saying 352 is a ‘better’ system. I think the reason Chelsea (and us) switched to it was because it was the best fit for the players at their disposal. David Luiz is a good footballing centre half but can be erratic, having Terry mopping up behind him means that’s less of a worry. Terry is a leader/organiser but is getting old and slow so having 2 flanking CBs helps him. I would say a poor season and a bit is a much more significant data sample to base a change than 2 bad results against Walsall in the middle of a run of 22 games with a very good return so far from being knee-jerk in the same way.


The point I was making is that both teams have switched to this system during this season with great effect. Chelsea won’t be ripping it up after losing to Tottenham just like we shouldn’t be after losing to Walsall. If your point is that 451 should be an alternative to try just in certain situations then I wouldn’t particularly disagree but would point out that CW already regularly changes formation during the game but tends to go 442 more often that 451.

Billy would struggle in 451 these days as he's clearly lost half a yard of pace.

 

[B14Nco]

Is this a piss take?

I was stood next to some imbecile yesterday who was getting deeply red faced at our inability to get the ball into the box. "There's only us in the league that plays it like this!" he kept shouting.

Gobsmacked doesn't cover it. The league table does though.

There were more than a couple at Bolton (FA Cup) shouting the same... get it in the box - to the tiny little guys we've got to challenge the 6 footers...

I struggle with how people forget when ALL WE DID was launch balls into the box from the half way line... ultimately lose the ball and then have teams counter us.

I tell the guy who sits behind me EVERY GAME... they can't score when we've got the ball.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Okay Boss. Does that only apply to people who disagree with your viewpoint? A couple of days ago you were quite happy to give your views on the average Sheffielders culinary knowledge without substantiating it. Your knowledge on that subject left a little to be desired as well.

Not at all. You said Greaves was fit for the "finals". Not true. Only the final. Which changes the context. The decision not to change a winning side in which the apparently relatively unknown (lol) Geoff Hurst would make sense to most people. In fact at the time Roger Hunt got stick from Greaves fans for him missing the game. No link sorry!

You could have debated in an adult fashion from the start. But you haven't. I asked if Chelsea tore up the formation tactics after a bad result as you suggested Wilder did after Saturday.

I don't believe your idea has had much support on this thread.

Do you realise you have substituted the nonsense you spouted about about Megson with something unrelated from a previous thread (written in jest). This only suggests two things. You do talk some crap and you don't have a sense of humour. And to add a possible third, it appears you enjoy a bit of internet stalking. Anyway, seeing as you are veering so far off subject I'll discontinue the dialogue with you on squad formation and allow you the inevitable last word.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Do you realise you have substituted the nonsense you spouted about about Megson with something unrelated from a previous thread (written in jest). This only suggests two things. You do talk some crap and you don't have a sense of humour. And to add a possible third, it appears you enjoy a bit of internet stalking. Anyway, seeing as you are veering so far off subject I'll discontinue the dialogue with you on squad formation and allow you the inevitable last word.

Thanks very much. It's "pretentious".

 

[Westran]

I remember Wilder mentioning not too long back (in the last couple of weeks) that he wouldn't be scared to change the formation if need be, he's not a fool and obviously much better qualified to be making these decisions than us, unless you're secretly Alex Ferguson.

He's just made a signing that opens a lot of options for us, my guess would be that if he was to switch anything it would be on the pitch and fluid so that we could switch back without causing too much damage.

the problem with moving to 442 or 451 imo is you either make it easier for teams to attack you through the middle, or you lose options up front. 352 can be a fluid 532 if you have good wingbacks and I can't see tufty moving away from that.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I remember Wilder mentioning not too long back (in the last couple of weeks) that he wouldn't be scared to change the formation if need be, he's not a fool and obviously much better qualified to be making these decisions than us, unless you're secretly Alex Ferguson.

He's just made a signing that opens a lot of options for us, my guess would be that if he was to switch anything it would be on the pitch and fluid so that we could switch back without causing too much damage.

the problem with moving to 442 or 451 imo is you either make it easier for teams to attack you through the middle, or you lose options up front. 352 can be a fluid 532 if you have good wingbacks and I can't see tufty moving away from that.

3-5-2 can also be 4-5-1 almost instantly and 4-4-2 easily......and it always is throughout every game depending on the stage of the game and the tactics and ability of the opposition.

If the opposition plays 5-4-1 at Bramall Lane with no space between the lines then all systems struggle no matter who you have in your team (Barca excepted). Similarly if the opposition play it at home games v us it is hard. Easy to over-commit, that's what the opposition are waiting for. With zero expectation and patience in the home crowd it makes it hard for us in away games too. EEL is young, so is O'c. Basham is Bash and neither a natural defender or midfielder. Only Wright has the right sort of experience.

 

[Grappler]

Do you realise you have substituted the nonsense you spouted about about Megson with something unrelated from a previous thread (written in jest). This only suggests two things. You do talk some crap and you don't have a sense of humour. And to add a possible third, it appears you enjoy a bit of internet stalking. Anyway, seeing as you are veering so far off subject I'll discontinue the dialogue with you on squad formation and allow you the inevitable last word.

I can vaguely remember the Megson issue, but not 100% sure on the detail. It was something like Megson had a verbal (or written) confrontation with another club owner, or maybe he said something that was overheard, Manderic asked him to apologise or retract it, or whatever, and he wouldn't. That was the start of MM looking for a new manager.

I could be totally wrong here, but that is what rings a bell with me. Anyone else remember?

 

[Sean Thornton]

I can vaguely remember the Megson issue, but not 100% sure on the detail. It was something like Megson had a verbal (or written) confrontation with another club owner, or maybe he said something that was overheard, Manderic asked him to apologise or retract it, or whatever, and he wouldn't. That was the start of MM looking for a new manager.

I could be totally wrong here, but that is what rings a bell with me. Anyone else remember?

That led to a bust up with Manderic.

 

[kennyblade]

3-5-2 can also be 4-5-1 almost instantly and 4-4-2 easily......and it always is throughout every game depending on the stage of the game and the tactics and ability of the opposition.

If the opposition plays 5-4-1 at Bramall Lane with no space between the lines then all systems struggle no matter who you have in your team (Barca excepted). Similarly if the opposition play it at home games v us it is hard. Easy to over-commit, that's what the opposition are waiting for. With zero expectation and patience in the home crowd it makes it hard for us in away games too. EEL is young, so is O'c. Basham is Bash and neither a natural defender or midfielder. Only Wright has the right sort of experience.

i like the 3 5 2 system it suits the players we have and its served us well this season lots of interchanging and allowing our full backs to get in to opponents penalty area with joe riley joining us today we could quite easily go to 4 4 2 with him playing on right or left will give us even more flexibility imo

 

[Grappler]

That led to a bust up with Manderic.

Yep, I knew it was something like that. Who was the person he talked about?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Billy would struggle in 451 these days as he's clearly lost half a yard of pace.

You're probably right though he would have been infinitely better in that system than Higdon was under Clough. Probably better than McNulty or Baxter were too.

 

[RedandWhite]

Worst post ever can we delete it?

 

[The Crab]

disappointed........thought this would be about geese

Will this do?

 

[Woodwardfan]

You're probably right though he would have been infinitely better in that system than Higdon was under Clough. Probably better than McNulty or Baxter were too.

The front 'one' in the Clough system didn't need pace and Baxter played it reasonably well. sharp would have been so much better, he would have come short away from the defenders, received the ball to feet, laid it off to the oncoming midfielders who used to break so well in numbers. By the time the ball reached the penalty area Sharp could have been right there and anything to feet would have had big possibilities. Sharp arriving in the box with the ball coming to feet would have been exciting as he plays with his head up and can find team mates in tight situations, as well as having the ability to thump a ball into the net !! At the time I wished on here we had had Sharp or a proper striker on the books and I didn't rate O'Grady as a proper striker then or now, though he could have done half the job at hand. McNulty didn't have the all-round game I'm afraid.

 

[tyke1889]

Luckily we are very potent upfront. 2nd highest scorers in the league.

Just checked and our 30 goals conceded is below average for the division (34.58)

But only Rochdale have shipped more than us out of the top 6, Bolton have only conceded 19. We need to tighten up, the average for the top 6 (which is where we are looking at tbf) is 26.33.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

The front 'one' in the Clough system didn't need pace and Baxter played it reasonably well. sharp would have been so much better, he would have come short away from the defenders, received the ball to feet, laid it off to the oncoming midfielders who used to break so well in numbers. By the time the ball reached the penalty area Sharp could have been right there and anything to feet would have had big possibilities. Sharp arriving in the box with the ball coming to feet would have been exciting as he plays with his head up and can find team mates in tight situations, as well as having the ability to thump a ball into the net !! At the time I wished on here we had had Sharp or a proper striker on the books and I didn't rate O'Grady as a proper striker then or now, though he could have done half the job at hand. McNulty didn't have the all-round game I'm afraid.

I've always liked O Grady but think he's better in a front 2. An excellent 'big man' but needs a striker to play off him as he's not all that prolific. Really like the way he brings others into play though.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

I can vaguely remember the Megson issue, but not 100% sure on the detail. It was something like Megson had a verbal (or written) confrontation with another club owner, or maybe he said something that was overheard, Manderic asked him to apologise or retract it, or whatever, and he wouldn't. That was the start of MM looking for a new manager.

I could be totally wrong here, but that is what rings a bell with me. Anyone else remember?

I blame all this on Megsons Mrs at the time . If she wasn't winding him up on personal reasons , Megson would not have taken his eye off the ball , concentrated on football , wouldn't have argued with all and sundry , kept players onside in the dressing room , wouldn't have had some really bad results .

Because of Megson her in doors , the hubby ( albeit a boring twat ) ultimately wouldn't have got the sack , that bloke Dave Jones wouldn't even be heard of , and we would have got promoted.

Women , the route cause of all problems .

Megson now down the pan , Jones down the pan , Blades still in league 1

UTB

 

[mattbianco1]

But only Rochdale have shipped more than us out of the top 6, Bolton have only conceded 19. We need to tighten up, the average for the top 6 (which is where we are looking at tbf) is 26.33.

And Bolton have only scored 35. Our GD is +21 as opposed to Bolton's 16.
The style of play creates an open game. Bolton's games are boring low scoring games played by giants

 

[tyke1889]

And Bolton have only scored 35. Our GD is +21 as opposed to Bolton's 16.
The style of play creates an open game. Bolton's games are boring low scoring games played by giants

Oh I totally agree matt, my point was that we look ok against the whole league, but not so good against the top 6 who are our real rivals. It only needs the goals to dry up for whatever reason and we would start struggling for positive results. A tighter defence turns losses like Walsall into draws at least.
I don't want us to turn into Clough's "we start with a point, let's not lose it" team, but there has to be a way to tighten up a little.
Anyhow, I'm not a coach (that's probably very obvious ) but I'm sure Chris will deal with it if he sees fit.

 

[Woodwardfan]

Oh I totally agree matt, my point was that we look ok against the whole league, but not so good against the top 6 who are our real rivals. It only needs the goals to dry up for whatever reason and we would start struggling for positive results. A tighter defence turns losses like Walsall into draws at least.
I don't want us to turn into Clough's "we start with a point, let's not lose it" team, but there has to be a way to tighten up a little.
Anyhow, I'm not a coach (that's probably very obvious ) but I'm sure Chris will deal with it if he sees fit.

So what are you saying exactly tyke?

Should we change the system or the players?

We all know problems but we are all interested in solutions.

 

[tyke1889]

So what are you saying exactly tyke?

Should we change the system or the players?

We all know problems but we are all interested in solutions.

Well I started off just answering one stat with another to show that our defence isn't yet good enough alongside the top six.
I don't want to get dragged into a tactics debate, I'll leave that to the professionals but, for what it's worth, Wright would be one of the first names on the team sheet for me.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Bump

Four at the back on Tuesday anyone? Eight conceded in three games is not on. We've signed a new fullback which should allow Freeman to operate wide attacking midfield in a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1. Coutts or Fleck need a rest to make way for him.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Have we got the sort of mobile, energetic central midfielders that a 442 requires?

I'd say Chris is playing to the strengths of the players we have got. Whatever system we play, there'd be wobbles along the way. Let's stick with what makes us such an exciting (& successful, so far) side.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Have we got the sort of mobile, energetic central midfielders that a 442 requires?

I think we have A14B if we stick Freeman there and absolve him of his defensive duties which tbf he's not very good at.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Have we got the sort of mobile, energetic central midfielders that a 442 requires?

/QUOTE]

We are as far away from a 4 in midfield as we have ever been. Fleck? possibly.
Any more? not for me - we are therefore 3 short.
If CW needs to get to 4 in midfield, he has a lot of work to do in the transfer market.

UTB