In praise of Mccabe

[Sean Thornton]

Why do you have to answer for the Thread starter, can he not speak for himself? Ah personal abuse. Great debating skills.

It's a forum. If it's a bit rough and tumble for your sensitivities at times, there's not much I can do about that.

Are you his PA was an intelligent post was it?

No debate about my opinion btw.

 

[Sean Thornton]

But he didn't get it right with Warnock, Wilson and Wilder did he? He didn't back Warnock sufficiently when in the Prem and then fired him when he was the best man to get us back to the Prem. So that's one he got wrong.

He fired Wilson on some spurious idea that the home form was letting us down, but failed to notice that the average points haul from home and away games was similar and we were still strongly in the play-offs. That was just an excuse anyway - he fired Wilson because he'd seen how a new manager coming in at Wednesday had given them an automatic boost in form and he thought doing the same thing at United could give us that same kind of lift at a time when our form was stuttering a bit. He totally underestimated how much the players and staff at Sheffield United respected Wilson and how gutted they were when he was cruelly sacked. So, that's two he got wrong.

And as for Wilder - this is one he has definitely got right. But after so many bad decisions on hiring and firing managers (and we've not even talked about sacking Blackwell after 3 games, or hiring Robson or hiring Weir or Adkins) then, I'm sorry, but I am inclined to think that the appointment of Wilder is serendipitous on McCabe's part (that means, it's more by luck than deliberate planning). I'm pretty sure that McCabe's main motivation in hiring Wilder will have been that he was cheap. After the expensive flop that was Adkins I think cheap would have been high on his list of qualities he was looking for. As it turns out he's really dropped on his feet this time. Wilder has all the qualities to become the best manager we've had since...whenever. I certainly think he's absolutely the right man for the right job at the right time. But I give McCabe little or no credit for that whatsoever. He hasn't a clue what he's doing in hiring and firing managers - and law of averages he was going to get it right sometime hopefully - and that's where we are now -thank God!

He didn't fire Warnock. You know, the man who's press conference the day before the Wigan game centred on his contract, or rather him not being given a new one.

Sacking Wilson was a mistake, appointing Robson, not letting Blackwell go after the PO final was a mistake, appointing Adams was a mistake as was Weir and the Clough sacking was a shambles even though quite a few thought it was a decent appointment although not as many who congratulated him on appointing Adkins.

But now Wilder is a luck appointment seemingly only good luck applies to McCabes decisions not bad.

As for the law of averages in this matter....

"As invoked in everyday life, the "law" usually reflects wishful thinking or a poor understanding of statistics rather than any mathematical principle. While there is a real theorem that a random variable will reflect its underlying probability over a very large sample, the law of averages typically assumes that unnatural short-term "balance" must occur.[1]Typical applications of the law also generally assume no bias in the underlying probability distribution, which is frequently at odds with the empirical evidence."

 

[BushBlade]

He didn't fire Warnock. You know, the man who's press conference the day before the Wigan game centred on his contract, or rather him not being given a new one.

Sacking Wilson was a mistake, appointing Robson, not letting Blackwell go after the PO final was a mistake, appointing Adams was a mistake as was Weir and the Clough sacking was a shambles even though quite a few thought it was a decent appointment although not as many who congratulated him on appointing Adkins.

But now Wilder is a luck appointment seemingly only good luck applies to McCabes decisions not bad.

As for the law of averages in this matter....

"As invoked in everyday life, the "law" usually reflects wishful thinking or a poor understanding of statistics rather than any mathematical principle. While there is a real theorem that a random variable will reflect its underlying probability over a very large sample, the law of averages typically assumes that unnatural short-term "balance" must occur.[1]Typical applications of the law also generally assume no bias in the underlying probability distribution, which is frequently at odds with the empirical evidence."

I think the fact that Warnock was going into our most important game for twenty years with his contract about to expire shows a terrible lack of judgement from KM. His reaction to Warnock talking to Mandy about the Pompey job was that of an over-emotional fan rather than a clear headed profession and not awarding him a new contract when we went up was small minded.

For all his faults, Warnock is a decent manager and it's taken KM ten years to find one as good, costing him a fortune in the process. McCabe cut his nose off to spite his face over Warnock.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Plus when NW was backed he bought Shelton, Fathi and some non entity who's name escapes me, for "the future" which people conveniently forget. As they do his claim he'd been offered the Pompey job which Mandaric denied on more than one occaision.

Grrrr...

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Choosing managers is easy, everybody's an expert, how many times has anybody selected somebody as a good choice only for him to go somewhere else and then 1/2/3 years later and a couple of clubs and nobody suggests him the next time because hes crap, and suggest somebody else and on it goes,Well nobody remembers what a fan mentions but the person who has to gets hammered for being incompetent even though he has probably selected mgers/ directors in other businesses with success. I am not savvy with what process is used in selecting a new manager, I presume the board of directors draw up a list targets and narrow it down and after interviews offer the post, does KM ignore them and say this is who its going to be? Or is it a joint discision and when it fails he as the figure head takes the responsibility? I dont know but guess some on here do, I will give you Robson, possibly the worst and probably KM' s choice.

I think you need hindsight with some managers. Akins for example came in to a great fanfare, some (myself included) thought Mickey Adams might be the man to bring the passion and fight back to the squad little did we know he’d get rid of any bits of quality (Ward, Britton, Bartley) and replace them with dross (Mattock, Doyle, Collins).


But every man and his dog knew at the time that the appointment of Robson was unbelievably fucking stupid.


I think he’s had some luck with the Wilder appointment. After Adkins and the anniversary kit had alienated the fans so much, I think he went as bladey as he could to try to win fans back at ST renewal time. Wilder manager, Sharp captain, the return to stripes etc. I think the appointment was for all the wrong reasons but I think it was very fortunate for him that Wilder has proven himself to be a very good manager because let’s face it, the bloke doesn’t have a clue how to pick one. I’d say it was stopped clock syndrome.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I think the fact that Warnock was going into our most important game for twenty years with his contract about to expire shows a terrible lack of judgement from KM. His reaction to Warnock talking to Mandy about the Pompey job was that of an over-emotional fan rather than a clear headed profession and not awarding him a new contract when we went up was small minded.

For all his faults, Warnock is a decent manager and it's taken KM ten years to find one as good, costing him a fortune in the process. McCabe cut his nose off to spite his face over Warnock.

Yet despite that he still let Warnock squander £3m on Fathi etc? Maybe that's where the final decision lay, in those deals? Re the Pompey job, Warnock told McCabe - and the papers - he'd got it. Bargaining point? Blackmail? Something Mandaric has always denied. Warnocks usual bluster and bs cost him the job, not McCabes ego.

Anyone who went to Villa that season could see where the problem really lay. Yes he has been a good manager but he did for us that season. The greedy twat.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

, but hes been our sole source of income for 15 years or more

Sole source of income? I guess he’s reimbursing me and the other 14k season ticket holders who have poured our money into the club year after year then? Can’t wait, that’ll come in handy. Has the prince not provided any income? If so, why give him half the club for a quid? Did the sales of (just in the last 15 years) Bent, Devlin, Brown, Gray, Jagielka, Tonge, CKR, Hulse, Stead, Sharp, Kenny, Killgallon, Beattie, Mellis, Walker, Naughton, Slew, Lowton, Blackman, McDonald, Maguire, Murphy, Adams, DCL etc. not generate any income? If not, it was even worse business than I thought. What about merchandise? Or your blades player account? Was that free? And we didn’t get any TV money in the Prem, parachute payments or a windfall from the Tevez saga? We didn’t get anything from our recent cup runs?



Sole source of income indeed……

 

[Sean Thornton]

Yet despite that he still let Warnock squander £3m on Fathi etc? Maybe that's where the final decision lay, in those deals? Re the Pompey job, Warnock told McCabe - and the papers - he'd got it. Bargaining point? Blackmail? Something Mandaric has always denied. Warnocks usual bluster and bs cost him the job, not McCabes ego.

Anyone who went to Villa that season could see where the problem really lay. Yes he has been a good manager but he did for us that season. The greedy twat.

And after saying that, yes, another example of bad judgement by McCabe signing off on those three. Did he ever ask the question " is this what we really need?"

 

[Sean Thornton]

Sole source of income? I guess he’s reimbursing me and the other 14k season ticket holders who have poured our money into the club year after year then? Can’t wait, that’ll come in handy. Has the prince not provided any income? If so, why give him half the club for a quid? Did the sales of (just in the last 15 years) Bent, Devlin, Brown, Gray, Jagielka, Tonge, CKR, Hulse, Stead, Sharp, Kenny, Killgallon, Beattie, Mellis, Walker, Naughton, Slew, Lowton, Blackman, McDonald, Maguire, Murphy, Adams, DCL etc. not generate any income? If not, it was even worse business than I thought. What about merchandise? Or your blades player account? Was that free? And we didn’t get any TV money in the Prem, parachute payments or a windfall from the Tevez saga? We didn’t get anything from our recent cup runs?



Sole source of income indeed……

Saw this yesterday and thought, I can only go so far.......

 

[I should coco]

Plus when NW was backed he bought Shelton, Fathi and some non entity who's name escapes me,

It is understandable why it would; Seck!

 

[Sean Thornton]

It is understandable why it would; Seck!

Bastard

 

[I should coco]

Did the sales of (just in the last 15 years) Bent, Devlin, Brown, Gray, Jagielka, Tonge, CKR, Hulse, Stead, Sharp, Kenny, Killgallon, Beattie, Mellis, Walker, Naughton, Slew, Lowton, Blackman, McDonald, Maguire, Murphy, Adams, DCL etc. not generate any income? If not, it was even worse business than I thought. What about merchandise? Or your blades player account? Was that free? And we didn’t get any TV money in the Prem, parachute payments or a windfall from the Tevez saga? We didn’t get anything from our recent cup runs?

All that lot plus corporate sponsorship, gate receipts, catering, hospitality and the various Blades lotteries covered about half the outgoings over the same period.

Don't they pay wages in La la land?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

All that lot plus corporate sponsorship, gate receipts, catering, hospitality and the various Blades lotteries covered about half the outgoings over the same period.

Don't they pay wages in La la land?

Are you suggesting I'm living in la la land? I think you'll find I said absolutely nothing about the income vs expenditure or whether McCabe stemmed losses in the post you quote. On what basis is your post made? I was just pointing out the idiocy of the comment 'sole source of income'.

 

[boo radley]

It's a forum. If it's a bit rough and tumble for your sensitivities at times, there's not much I can do about that.

Are you his PA was an intelligent post was it?

No debate about my opinion btw.

More intelligent than personal abuse.
How do I know if the thread starter is/is not a relation of the McCabe family unless I ask?

 

[Sean Thornton]

More intelligent than personal abuse.
How do I know if the thread starter is/is not a relation of the McCabe family unless I ask?

Why would you state his opening sentence didnt clarify it then? Why should it? That's not what the thread was about.

Have cup of sweet tea, you'll feel better.

 

[I should coco]

Are you suggesting I'm living in la la land? I think you'll find I said absolutely nothing about the income vs expenditure or whether McCabe stemmed losses in the post you quote. On what basis is your post made? I was just pointing out the idiocy of the comment 'sole source of income'.

1DW.

I was suggesting that and I stand corrected. You are not a citizen of La la Land and I humbly beg forgiveness.

In my defence I've spent years trying to explain to people Mr McCawber's basic laws. When Expenditure exceeds Income, someone has to make good the loss. We have been lucky to have McCabe to do this, despite what some may think.

In my haste to remind the good burghers of S2 of basic economics I misread your intent. For this I should be eternally spanked,
or whipped,
by a good looking bird,
in leather,
with thigh high..........

 

[itsinyerblood]

1DW.

I was suggesting that and I stand corrected. You are not a citizen of La la Land and I humbly beg forgiveness.

In my defence I've spent years trying to explain to people Mr McCawber's basic laws. When Expenditure exceeds Income, someone has to make good the loss. We have been lucky to have McCabe to do this, despite what some may think.

In my haste to remind the good burghers of S2 of basic economics I misread your intent. For this I should be eternally spanked,
or whipped,
by a good looking bird,
in leather,
with thigh high..........

So, coco wants a poko? LYDON , you have a client who's willing to accept his flaws.

Sorry ISC, when you've offended this grievously you don't get to choose the gender of your punisher.

 

[boo radley]

Why would you state his opening sentence didnt clarify it then? Why should it? That's not what the thread was about.

Have cup of sweet tea, you'll feel better.

WTF!
I suggest you get off whatever you are on to clear your head.
You seem to need some help.

 

[blade too long]

Sole source of income? I guess he’s reimbursing me and the other 14k season ticket holders who have poured our money into the club year after year then? Can’t wait, that’ll come in handy. Has the prince not provided any income? If so, why give him half the club for a quid? Did the sales of (just in the last 15 years) Bent, Devlin, Brown, Gray, Jagielka, Tonge, CKR, Hulse, Stead, Sharp, Kenny, Killgallon, Beattie, Mellis, Walker, Naughton, Slew, Lowton, Blackman, McDonald, Maguire, Murphy, Adams, DCL etc. not generate any income? If not, it was even worse business than I thought. What about merchandise? Or your blades player account? Was that free? And we didn’t get any TV money in the Prem, parachute payments or a windfall from the Tevez saga? We didn’t get anything from our recent cup runs?



Sole source of income indeed……

outside the 20000 x 300 quid a year on average 6 m quid for tickets , I did post this earlier

thats the same at every club , people buy tickets
but if you have a wage bill over that

we cant get it off the 20 note trees in the orchard

 

[Darthblade]

1DW.

I was suggesting that and I stand corrected. You are not a citizen of La la Land and I humbly beg forgiveness.

In my defence I've spent years trying to explain to people Mr McCawber's basic laws. When Expenditure exceeds Income, someone has to make good the loss. We have been lucky to have McCabe to do this, despite what some may think.

In my haste to remind the good burghers of S2 of basic economics I misread your intent. For this I should be eternally spanked,
or whipped,
by a good looking bird,
in leather,
with thigh high..........

May I suggest you imagine Kelly Brook doing the spanking in the attire you describe ........ it works well for me so I can recommend it if you have a good imagination ....

UTB & FTP

 

[BushBlade]

Yet despite that he still let Warnock squander £3m on Fathi etc? Maybe that's where the final decision lay, in those deals? Re the Pompey job, Warnock told McCabe - and the papers - he'd got it. Bargaining point? Blackmail? Something Mandaric has always denied. Warnocks usual bluster and bs cost him the job, not McCabes ego.

Anyone who went to Villa that season could see where the problem really lay. Yes he has been a good manager but he did for us that season. The greedy twat.

Whatever he 'squadered' on Fathi and the others pales into insignificance compared to what Robson spent the year after. Any sensible owner would have spent the money on trying to stay in the PL, not trying to get back into it.
If his beef with Warnock was that big he should have sacked him when we got promoted. His halfway house of keeping him but not renewing his contract or giving sufficient funds to sign good enough players served nobody.

It was a poor decision and I don't see how anyone can say otherwise.

 

[Revolution]

In my defence I've spent years trying to explain to people Mr McCawber's basic laws. When Expenditure exceeds Income, someone has to make good the loss. We have been lucky to have McCabe to do this, despite what some may think.

Isn't making up losses on a football club you own a bit like someone paying their mortgage? It's a necessary consequence of owning the asset, isn't it?

 

[I should coco]

LYDON , you have a client who's willing to accept his flaws.

Sorry ISC, when you've offended this grievously you don't get to choose the gender of your punisher.

Oh bugger, bending over in the front window of Dempseys, it is then!

I think I preferred his avatar when it had the George Berry big hair though.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Whatever he 'squadered' on Fathi and the others pales into insignificance compared to what Robson spent the year after. Any sensible owner would have spent the money on trying to stay in the PL, not trying to get back into it.
If his beef with Warnock was that big he should have sacked him when we got promoted. His halfway house of keeping him but not renewing his contract or giving sufficient funds to sign good enough players served nobody.

It was a poor decision and I don't see how anyone can say otherwise.

We were in a relegation battle. Warnock chose not to strengthen his first eleven instead buying squad players - at best at the time - presumably his decision and his alone.
His job was to keep us up there but his contract was all that mattered. As Ive said, why the hell didn't McCabe ask him why he bought those three? Maybe McCabe wanted to see the season out before sitting down to look at a new contract deal, he had until June 30th after all. Maybe, just maybe NW was the author of his own downfall by his actions. Oh, and his failure to keep us up after looking safe at one point. Relegated team don't renew managers contract is hardly a man bites dog headline is it?

What word would you use rather than squandered?

 

[Dkc]

Whatever he 'squadered' on Fathi and the others pales into insignificance compared to what Robson spent the year after. Any sensible owner would have spent the money on trying to stay in the PL, not trying to get back into it.
If his beef with Warnock was that big he should have sacked him when we got promoted. His halfway house of keeping him but not renewing his contract or giving sufficient funds to sign good enough players served nobody.

It was a poor decision and I don't see how anyone can say otherwise.

I agree with that. No manager is ever sacked after promotion but I don't see why not. McCabe could have said "thanks Neil, you did a great job and we'll always be grateful, but we now need a manager with experience of keeping teams in the PL so you're on your bike chum". Credit to Warnock though, he almost kept us there.

He was the best man to get us back up imo, and should never have been sacked after the Wigan game - especially given who we appointed instead. Shame egos played such a big role in those events.

 

[Sean Thornton]

WTF!
I suggest you get off whatever you are on to clear your head.
You seem to need some help.

Grown up reply? Drugs? Excellent.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I agree with that. No manager is ever sacked after promotion but I don't see why not. McCabe could have said "thanks Neil, you did a great job and we'll always be grateful, but we now need a manager with experience of keeping teams in the PL so you're on your bike chum". Credit to Warnock though, he almost kept us there.

He was the best man to get us back up imo, and should never have been sacked after the Wigan game - especially given who we appointed instead. Shame egos played such a big role in those events.

He wasn't sacked ffs.

 

[I should coco]

Isn't making up losses on a football club you own a bit like someone paying their mortgage? It's a necessary consequence of owning the asset, isn't it?

No.

A house appreciates in value and you can sell it any time to clear the mortgage. During the period you pay the mortgage, you live in the house for free, thus avoiding paying rent. Funding a football club's loss is a one way street. The only benefit is you get, is a padded seat in a marked area where the nearby punters can easily recognise you to boo and abuse.

I'm sure there have been plenty of times KM would have gladly offloaded SUFC but he would only have got a few million back. His only chance of getting back all he has put in, is promotion to the EPL (before the TV bubble bursts).

 

[itsinyerblood]

Oh bugger, bending over in the front window of Dempseys, it is then!

I think I preferred his avatar when it had the George Berry big hair though.

In this context the use of bugger might not be your wisest choice.

The one upside is that you won't get to see the look on LYDON'S face, that might be the scariest thing in all of this.

 

[BushBlade]

No.

A house appreciates in value and you can sell it any time to clear the mortgage. During the period you pay the mortgage, you live in the house for free, thus avoiding paying rent. Funding a football club's loss is a one way street. The only benefit is you get, is a padded seat in a marked area where the nearby punters can easily recognise you to boo and abuse.

I'm sure there have been plenty of times KM would have gladly offloaded SUFC but he would only have got a few million back. His only chance of getting back all he has put in, is promotion to the EPL (before the TV bubble bursts).

He'll be lucky to get that even if we did back to back promotions.

If I could afford a club I could go and buy Sunderland or Hull. I could have bought Villa last season. There seems to be a shortage of billionaires wanting to buy PL clubs at vastly overinflated prices.