Breaking Teams Down

[Slim Man]

First of all, what a feeling last night. Them last minute winners at the Lane - there's nothing better.

Secondly, people were getting really irate yesterday because from all recent results of both sides that should've been a cricket score - but it wasn't to be.

They came from minute 1 to camp up, time waste and keep the score down. They had no ambition to score, it was a case of keep it at 0-0 for them - and they very nearly did with 9 men. We need to do more, we need to move the ball quicker and ask more questions.

It was all so predictable yesterday, we'd start shifting the ball fast, slow down, pass it around for a bit, get it out wide and cross in - their defenders absolutely gobbled it up. We must be braver, we have to ask more questions. Fling shots in from outside the box, pass between the lines, run at them. Personally at half time I'd have brought Chapman on for Wright too, 4 at the back, 4 along midfield and Sharp and Clarke upfront. Get Chapman running at them from the off because he can beat a man. Hated seeing Billy out wide, alright he can swing a decent ball in but he's far too good to be sat out there while Done is in the middle.

As fans we have to be patient and the players do to - but there comes a time we have to press harder and in all honesty yesterday that started when they went down to 9. It would've been far too late and I don't think if they had the second sending off we'd have found that winner. (Brilliantly worked though it was)

At home to Shrewsbury and Bury, with a combined 60 minutes against 10 men and 55 against 9 we have managed just 1 goal. We are going to have to learn how to break sides down or it'll be curtains in regards to the title because we are 'up there' now, the fear factor is back at Bramall Lane and sides are coming to camp out for a 0-0. Unfortunately this is what comes with it., we have to learn to adapt and we have to do it quickly with us having a hell of a lot of home games over the next month or so. It'll make or break us.

One thing's for certain, it'll be attack vs attack at the weekend after Charlton's thrashing of Bristol Rovers, which will suit us down to the ground. Let's make it 15 unbeaten.

 

[Boxer Blade]

First of all, what a feeling last night. Them last minute winners at the Lane - there's nothing better.

Secondly, people were getting really irate yesterday because from all recent results of both sides that should've been a cricket score - but it wasn't to be.

They came from minute 1 to camp up, time waste and keep the score down. They had no ambition to score, it was a case of keep it at 0-0 for them - and they very nearly did with 9 men. We need to do more, we need to move the ball quicker and ask more questions.

It was all so predictable yesterday, we'd start shifting the ball fast, slow down, pass it around for a bit, get it out wide and cross in - their defenders absolutely gobbled it up. We must be braver, we have to ask more questions. Fling shots in from outside the box, pass between the lines, run at them. Personally at half time I'd have brought Chapman on for Wright too, 4 at the back, 4 along midfield and Sharp and Clarke upfront. Get Chapman running at them from the off because he can beat a man. Hated seeing Billy out wide, alright he can swing a decent ball in but he's far too good to be sat out there while Done is in the middle.

As fans we have to be patient and the players do to - but there comes a time we have to press harder and in all honesty yesterday that started when they went down to 9. It would've been far too late and I don't think if they had the second sending off we'd have found that winner. (Brilliantly worked though it was)

At home to Shrewsbury and Bury, with a combined 60 minutes against 10 men and 55 against 9 we have managed just 1 goal. We are going to have to learn how to break sides down or it'll be curtains in regards to the title because we are 'up there' now, the fear factor is back at Bramall Lane and sides are coming to camp out for a 0-0. Unfortunately this is what comes with it., we have to learn to adapt and we have to do it quickly with us having a hell of a lot of home games over the next month or so. It'll make or break us.

One thing's for certain, it'll be attack vs attack at the weekend after Charlton's thrashing of Bristol Rovers, which will suit us down to the ground. Let's make it 15 unbeaten.

I agree Dan, as I have said on another post, we have to be patient but players with the 'x factor' that bit of something else like Chapman and hopefully lavery to turn players, individuals, who when they are cutting in from the wing always look dangerous, another interesting game on Saturday though and as you say could be a few goals, one thing is for certain, we will have a right go at them and hopefully get a win and let the 3k blades fans have a brilliant day out, onwards and upwards my friend

 

[JJ Sefton]

They came from minute 1 to camp up,

Ooooooooooooh, they are awful!

 

[SteveBlade]

Wouldn't have been weird either of those games finishing with us 3/4 ahead. Early goal and it's curtains against Bury, and Shrewsbury with 9 wee never going to play any differently.

We should have been more creative down the middle and played it faster out wide, but we were never in danger. We'll likely drop points in several of these type of games this season though.

 

[Grizzly blade]

I'm not going to criticise our lads in the slightest for not dispatching the last two teams for plenty of goals.

That 18 yd box is very small when the opponents put 8 players in it, and we have a fair few of our own in there. The game will become scrappy. They will gamble that you can shoot from 25 yards 10 times and might come close with ga couple if not under pressure.
So yes, we need some creativity and ability to beat a man. But in such a closed space it's nigh impossible to just get through by takin get players on. Even then, they will have defenders dropping into their line and making clearances, which happened last night too.

For me, when a side is organised the way the last two have it's a lottery. We almost need to offer an incentive to get them out. If it were me I would go very open. Take off defenders, go two at the back. Bring the keeper up to almost the halfway when we have the ball high up. Make them look and think they could change tactic and maybe sneak a win, make them look and think they might have a little go for it. Let them get brace and invite them out....one at a time see if we can draw a coup,e of them out and then use any space we create quickly.

Anyway....Coutts class won the day in the end.

 

[Slim Man]

Anyway....Coutts class won the day in the end.

Certainly can't disagree with that

 

[Slim Man]

Wouldn't have been weird either of those games finishing with us 3/4 ahead. Early goal and it's curtains against Bury, and Shrewsbury with 9 wee never going to play any differently.

We should have been more creative down the middle and played it faster out wide, but we were never in danger. We'll likely drop points in several of these type of games this season though.

No we weren't, not even after Shrewsbury's first. But dropping points at home to either of these would've left a massive dent in our title push and a real hit to both fan and player confidence.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Sorry but I can't go along with this "difficult to play against 9 men" bollocks. I've even read some comments that it would have been easier to play against 11 men ffs! If the team is shit with 11 men then they are even shittier with 9 men. We should be burying them, other teams do.

I think United have a problem here, either mentally or tactically. After the second time round I'm also sure that CW has cottoned on and is working on it.

 

[HeCanDoMagic]

Duffy.

That's the answer to the problems discussed in the opening post.

 

[Maidenhead]

Teams at the bottom will always come and set up like that.

Scunthorpe only beat Oldham 1-0 with a late winner, they, Bolton, Bradford and us will have to get used to it.

The longer the season goes, the more it will happen.

 

[Ricky]

For a start we need to waste no time in getting players with good attacking ability in the wide positions, and get to the byline far more often. That's where the goal came from, that's where at least one of our other best chances came from, when Chapman crossed from the right. Then encourage any tall players to get to the back post. Crosses from that position are much harder to defend.

I'd also like to see us take more risks, running with the ball for example, especially Coutts and Fleck. Run at opponents a bit, drive towards the box, try and work shooting opportunities. Fleck in particular. It's something he could add to his game, just a little step over or something that can make a yard for a shot.

We could also pass to players in tight areas more often. Fleck could take up those positions sometimes instead of orchestrating the play from deeper. There's been a bit too much safe passing across the pitch.

It will help a lot when Duffy's playing though.

These games have highlighted how we could do with another wide option who can take players on. Although I think someone like that will be on the shortlist already.

 

[Slim Man]

Duffy.

That's the answer to the problems discussed in the opening post.

I think so too. We've really missed him. Scougall's good as an impact sub, or a squad player when you need a goal but Duffy is our creative outlet
Scoug's goes missing for 89 minutes of the 90. Fair play to him though, certainly knuckled down and deserves his place in the 18.

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

Liver Pool
Burn Ley
Swan Sea

There's a few to start you off.
I guess there's loads more.



I've missed the point of the thread here haven't I.

 

[Antonb]

We missed Duffy and freeman basically . But they will be back for Saturday thank goodness. Now we know how important Duffy is to the team. Fleck, Coutts and Duffy together are our key to success .

 

[bartman]

One thing's for certain, it'll be attack vs attack at the weekend after Charlton's thrashing of Bristol Rovers, which will suit us down to the ground. Let's make it 15 unbeaten.

If Karl Robinson is in charge (as rumoured) be prepared for some tedious football from Charlton and a one nil defeat for us :-(

 

[Sheffsteel]

Teams at the bottom will always come and set up like that.

Scunthorpe only beat Oldham 1-0 with a late winner, they, Bolton, Bradford and us will have to get used to it.

The longer the season goes, the more it will happen.

You've picked a bad example there.

Oldham attacked Scunny in the 1st half and could have been 3-0 up at half time. Scunny were struggling with Oldham easily the better team. The manager gave them a rollicking at half time and then they started playing to their normal standards. Oldham attacked them and based on the 1st half deserved a draw.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Agree all about having a player with a trick, pace and a positive outlook.

Steve Kabba used to run at their defense. Colin Kasim-Richards had that style too.

However in the current set up there's only Harry Chapman and Duffy that have dribbling ability to go past a man. Duffy also had intelligence to know when to dribble and know when to pass.

As already said we missed him last night but let's be honest we totally dominated and it was only a matter of time before we scored.

If we keep having repeats of the matches against Bury and Shrewsbury, even without Duffy we'd still win 4 out of 5.

 

[DifferentClass]

Liver Pool
Burn Ley
Swan Sea

There's a few to start you off.
I guess there's loads more.



I've missed the point of the thread here haven't I.

Wed Nes Fucking Piggy Cunts Day

 

[Grizzly blade]

Sorry but I can't go along with this "difficult to play against 9 men" bollocks. I've even read some comments that it would have been easier to play against 11 men ffs! If the team is shit with 11 men then they are even shittier with 9 men. We should be burying them, other teams do.

I think United have a problem here, either mentally or tactically. After the second time round I'm also sure that CW has cottoned on and is working on it.

Think you are missing the point.
If a side has 10 outfield players starting a game, and commits one or two forward....maybe 3 or 4 in the middle third then that's no more than 5 at the back. They also try and score goals of their own, so that on occasion they have as few as 2 or 3 sat back! This means there is more space and therefore time for our players when they receive the ball.

Now if a side decided they were just going to defend, and put 8,9 or 10 players at the back then even the best teams in the world would struggle if they are organised, committed and work very hard. The Ronaldo's, Messi's off this world might be able to beat 3/4 men but those kinds of players are not the everyday commodity for a league one side.
We buried teams playing with 11...we hit the post, had chances cleared off the line, and had keepers in inspired form to win by one goal against 9 men. Makes no difference. 3 points. We buried those teams in terms of controlling the game. You won't see many games this season so one sided.

 

[Trafford]

However in the current set up there's only Harry Chapman and Duffy that have dribbling ability to go past a man.

And, for whatever reason, Chapman just couldn't do it when he came on as sub on Saturday. I was really disappointed in his performance but we all have bad days, let's hope that his is out of the way.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

For these type of opponent you need an Adel Taarabt type player,great at unpicking defenses,the winning goal and build up play showed what we should have been doing more of,we learn.

 

[Houso]

Just watched the 10 min BP highlights. We had a couple of sitters last night. A couple other full chances. 1 sure penalty turned down. 1 off the bar. 2 off the line. 1 eventually in the back of the net.

It may seem like we lacked ideas and created few chances, but we really did. Deserved to win by more.

In the past, we would have lost 1-0 last night.

 

[Maidenhead]

You've picked a bad example there.

Oldham attacked Scunny in the 1st half and could have been 3-0 up at half time. Scunny were struggling with Oldham easily the better team. The manager gave them a rollicking at half time and then they started playing to their normal standards. Oldham attacked them and based on the 1st half deserved a draw.

Sounds like you went, I didn't .

Just how it looked from outside. The nett result was the same though. Top team struggles to a late 1-0 win against perceived poor opposition .

We will have a lot more of that to come regardless of how teams set up.

Just hope we keep winning em

 

[Grizzly blade]

For these type of opponent you need an Adel Taarabt type player,great at unpicking defenses,the winning goal and build up play showed what we should have been doing more of,we learn.

Correct.

But the ability to beat a man is becoming rarer to find as teams no longer have lumbering units playing at the back. Full backs in particular are speed merchants, often converted wingers and Centre halves are often strikers converted to play there when leaving boys football for academies!

It's the future of the game, speed is key.

 

[Hodgyman]

For both of the last 2 games against 9 men our players tried their best but were hampered by 2 areas of play.
The first is when we regained possession deep in our half our midfielders both ran forward as fast as possible then played good forward passes to wide players, only for the ball to be played sideways or returned numerous times. This gave the opposition plenty of time to retreat and load their penalty area. Faster balls to the front players may get to their target in time for them to get a strike away before the retreating opposition arrive.
The other observation is that we were too lightweight up front, size-wise. It was only when (the brilliant ) Alan Knill told EEL to go as target man that we won a physical battle to get to the ball. The end product is that we all went home happy.

The morals of this piece are that when we go forward, cut out the Adkinesq sideways stuff and put EEL up top sooner if we are chasing a goal in desperation.

We got there in the end, but let's learn from the shortcomings

 

[1danewhitehouse]

First of all, what a feeling last night. Them last minute winners at the Lane - there's nothing better.

Secondly, people were getting really irate yesterday because from all recent results of both sides that should've been a cricket score - but it wasn't to be.

They came from minute 1 to camp up, time waste and keep the score down. They had no ambition to score, it was a case of keep it at 0-0 for them - and they very nearly did with 9 men. We need to do more, we need to move the ball quicker and ask more questions.

It was all so predictable yesterday, we'd start shifting the ball fast, slow down, pass it around for a bit, get it out wide and cross in - their defenders absolutely gobbled it up. We must be braver, we have to ask more questions. Fling shots in from outside the box, pass between the lines, run at them. Personally at half time I'd have brought Chapman on for Wright too, 4 at the back, 4 along midfield and Sharp and Clarke upfront. Get Chapman running at them from the off because he can beat a man. Hated seeing Billy out wide, alright he can swing a decent ball in but he's far too good to be sat out there while Done is in the middle.

As fans we have to be patient and the players do to - but there comes a time we have to press harder and in all honesty yesterday that started when they went down to 9. It would've been far too late and I don't think if they had the second sending off we'd have found that winner. (Brilliantly worked though it was)

At home to Shrewsbury and Bury, with a combined 60 minutes against 10 men and 55 against 9 we have managed just 1 goal. We are going to have to learn how to break sides down or it'll be curtains in regards to the title because we are 'up there' now, the fear factor is back at Bramall Lane and sides are coming to camp out for a 0-0. Unfortunately this is what comes with it., we have to learn to adapt and we have to do it quickly with us having a hell of a lot of home games over the next month or so. It'll make or break us.

One thing's for certain, it'll be attack vs attack at the weekend after Charlton's thrashing of Bristol Rovers, which will suit us down to the ground. Let's make it 15 unbeaten.

I agree we need to be a bit more penetrative and move the ball quicker in these situations but realistically, we’re not likely to miss the number of chances (and let’s not forget the penalty appeals) that we have in those 2 games. We should have scored about 8 against Shrewsbury and probably 3 or 4 last night with the chances we had. I think we only need small gains to regularly make the most out of these situations. A bit more dynamism at times going forward and a bit more composure in front of goal. Having Duffy back will help us in those situations. When we have him in front of Coutts and Fleck, teams struggle to cope with the inter-play. Having Freeman as an outlet too instead of the ball working it’s way to EEL or Basham will also help.


The good thing is we have a strong bench. Bringing Chapman and Lavery on last night made a difference as they started taking players on rather than just crossing from deep. I can think of a striker we could sign in January who also has that individual “matchwinner” quality……

 

[Kevincarterversion2.0]

People who are expecting cricket scores every week just dont understand football. Yes, we have to find a way to break teams down who come and park the bus, but we did, as we won both games.

If we had been given the pen and Leon's goal was allowed, we probably wouldnt be even discussing it.

 

[Ldn_Rd_Blades]

If their defender didn't make an amazing header off the line from Clarke it would have been over a lot earlier

 

[Deleted member 875]

Last night was an intriguing game, and probably one of the most interesting games i have seen for a while, and certainly one that very, very few people left early.

It was always going to be hard to break Bury down, more or less straight from the off they defended with 2 banks of 4, both sat very deep. We had 4 or 5 chances in the first half but just couldn't get the ball in the back of the net. I think if we had gone a goal up, then Bury would have come forward a bit more and tried to break more, and created more space for us to exploit, but they didn't and just ended sitting back further still

Second half after the sending off it was clearly obvious that they would defend deeper still and hopefully for them they would drag a point out of the game, then we was up against time wasting tactics and a fussy referee.

What was intriguing was watching United try and unpick the Bury defence and watching what Wilder was doing with the substitutions as they was all made with attacking intent. Clarke for Scougall meant that we was putting a battering ram in there instead of the finesse of Scougall. Chapman for Done was injecting fresh legs and a more natural winger, and then the final substitution for Lavery for Wright was basically taking out a player who had very little to do, for another attacking option.

Looking at the bigger picture, the one huge positive was last night was exactly the sort of game that is the difference between teams who make the top 2 and the teams that don't. The teams who will go up are the ones that keep going and battering the door down, and the teams that don't are the ones that don't manage to do it.

 

[SB_90]

it shouldnt be a surprises as we should expect bar play off or auto promotion chasing teams, everyone going park the bus at lane if anything its a return to it as only adkins where it didnt happen but we all know why as i remember complaining of teams parking the bus under clough,.we have just got to keep banging down that door & find away through. reminds of the jose mourinho black & decker comments

although what confused me during the bury game was why billy sharp was delivering the crosses when he should be on the end of them