Lavery & Sharp?

[Chali 2na]

Sharp hasn't had a good start, and looks a little off the pace. This could mean he's simply going through a bad patch (which all footballers do) or he's over the hill.

Either way, he's one of only 2 fit senior strikers, so he's going to play for the forseeable future, like it or not.

 

[davidblade]

I'm not turning on billy but he is looking slow and his work rate is down on last year. His goals seem to becoming mainly from penalties and seems to be missing to many chances from open play.
I'm not sure of his age but he's definitely on the decline, I think a spell on the bench may sharpen him up.

 

[sitwell]

Why the sudden downer on Matt Done ? His work rate is a vital part of the way we play ,just because hes missed a couple he should be 4th choice striker ? Sometimes players are much better when they aren't playing in some peoples eyes ,instead of looking whats in front of you. Done is working his balls off and deserves a bit of praise.

 

[FTPE]

Egg

That is actually true.
And it is also true that we were crap before Clarkes average performances.

 

[Razor1967]

Egg

Chegg

 

[Razor1967]

A late goal .......from a penalty.

What about the late-ish goal against Rochdale, there aren't many strikers in this division who would have scored from that, read it well and a great finish..... And that's when we were very poor as a side.

 

[Esablade]

Not really seen owt yet from Lavery yet to suggest he'll be first choice...hopefully, once/if he get's fit he'I'll force his way into the team and show us what he can do with whichever partner.

Still, I'd think Clarke ( once he's fit) is more likely to displace Sharp and play with either Done or Lavery.

UTB!

 

[Bladey McBladeface]

He's on a poor run of form and when that happens, Sharp offers less than Done because of his work rate and speed.

Having said that, with all 4 strikers available it would still be hard to make a case to drop him on a consistent basis. His goal record over the years speaks for itself.

I do understand the criticism, but to say he's in the knickersyard is extremely harsh/wrong.

 

[Bladey McBladeface]

*knackersyard!

 

[Grizzly blade]

I haven't said Sharp is fit for the knackers yard. But since the start of the season he hasn't looked right.

He looks like he's sulking at times, and hasn't caused many clubs problems. At the moment Done is doing his running, but both have missed a lot of chances recently.
Sharp is ok when he's backing into defenders and making it dificult, but in my opinion Wilder wants his forwards to be able to get hold of it, and also have the pace and workrate to pressure defenders. Done can't hold it up....but can chase. Sharp can hold it up, but is not a runner. That's the issue.
During games we are starting to control the midfield third, we are starting to get behind teams but rarely test the keeper. It would be nice if we had a dominant figure up top, and some real pace. It's those things that are missing to give us the variety in the team to really push on.

Sharp may improve, this current situation may be temporary and he might suddenly look sharper and start burying some of these chances he's missing. But he will still have important aspects missing.

Clarke has shown he can hold it up, he is strong and fairly quick. Also has a decent scoring record in this league.
Lavery is quick. So with the strikers we have I would say when fully fit Clarke will start, with the other 3 competing for one slot and offering options from the bench.

 

[TJB.]

Billy Sharpe

Go and stand in the corner, face the wall and think about what you did.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Little evidence on Lavery thus far apart from a few broadly positive views from our pals at S6. And when did we give a fart about what they think ?

Early days yet but in the brief snippets, looks a bit like a headless chicken thus far. I am sure he will improve !

UTB.

 

[RammyBlade]

If and when all 4 strikers are fit and ready, would these two be the best starting option?

Don't me wrong I really like Done, but I think a fully firing Lavery could do his job even better. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that Done is quite pacey, I'd say he was no slouch, but I think his tenacity and running style actually makes him look quicker than he is. If you think about it, he rarely leaves a defender for dead unless being played behind with a clever through ball.

Admittedly I haven't seen a great deal of Lavery but even in his 10min cameo against Bristol Rovers I tried to watch him closely and he appeared to be a lot lot quicker. He is also potentially a more natural finisher than Done.

Imagine starting with these two and brining Done on when defences are tiring, nightmare for them! Or Clarke if we need to mix it.

Just think its what I'd go for if all are fit and firing. Thoughts?

You could be right about Lavery but what is painfully clear is that we need someone tall in the front line. At Fleetwood we continually put balls up front and made crosses only for these to be gobbled up easily by their 6'5 36 year old defender Pond who has played in non league for them ! What is embarrassing is that he was their man of the match and both Sharp and Done werent able or clever enough to get round this journeyman defender. It was interesting that when we put a tall defender in the box ( EEL) that we managed to score from a good cross. How many other "good crosses" might we score from if we had some decent height in the forward line ?

 

[Bayingblade]

Funny thing is, it's only Billy Sharps detractors (and the bit of pondlife who turned up later on) who use the "Blade" angle to attack him.
Those of us who possess the power of reason only need to point to his record to defend him, or anyone else scores the goals for that matter.

We also don't think that the strikers birthplace and footballing allegiences are some dirty thing to be ashamed of. If I felt that way, then I'd have to look very close to home about myself, then I'd be filled with self-hate and feelings of inadequacy, then I'd be posting crap about "Bladey Bladeness" every two fucking minutes in order to try and compensate.

Imagine that eh.......

I think in the most part, people have made a case for dropping Billy and I'm with them. He just doesn't look right. He's never been quick but looks not only slow physically but slow in thought. He's missing clear chances (yes, something all strikers do) but those half chances he used to put away are not even hitting the target.

It's not a case of slagging Billy, I think all Blades (including me) want him banging the goals in left, right and centre but he isn't doing it and doesn't really look like doing it. It's fine to point at his record, it's very good in this league but I don't think most of those who are questioning his place in the side are questioning his record, they are questioning his ability to score goals this season.

Whether it's the style we play, the formation, the partners he has, I don't know but despite variances on all of these, he's still not looked the same as he was. Hopefully it's just a blip in form but at his age, he's not going to get any quicker and it's unlikely he'll get much better. You also have to look, whether you like it or not, at what he costs United, which by most accounts is 10k+ a week and ask whether that represents good value. Much as it pains me to say this but right now, it doesn't.

So like I say, let's just hope it's a blip and he gets back to top form because with the money we invest in him, he really needs to.

 

[Rodley]

"He's scored loads of goals".....blah blah blah.....

He's a blade. He's missed many more than he's scored. He's slow. has been poor for large periods in the majority of games. But guess which one of the above statements appear most important to some?? He's a blade of course!!

We can either maintain where we are, with a forward Line completely dependant on tap ins or penalties to score...or we can look to bring in a more mobile, threatening, varied and class forward line with ability to put the ball in the net when handed a chance and get even better.
It's the acceptance of crap, workmanlike rubbish and mediocrity from the "blades way brigade" that has seen this club go backwards. What a shame we have a number who are happy with this and would rather keep a player just because he is "one of us" than see the team improve. I mean, it's the key to success to never look to make the team better!

But it's ok.....we can always recall a time when we had a manager who failed to get the best from obvious quality like Coutts and decide that it was all the players fault. I think Mr Wilder making a few look pretty clueless has hurt their feelings.
Won't be long before he's shifted on....and you can direct you wrath towards the manager. In the meantime I hope he resolves his lack of chance conversion success...improves his decision making...finds some pace and starts beating a few players before thumping the ball into the net.

Beattie was dogger most games with movement and workrate a one legged pensioner would be ashamed of. He couldn't beat a man to save his life. But he scored goals.

Billy is no different but for me has a better attitude. He's a cracking lad (I've met him), popular in the dressing room and a leader. He will be good for 20 goals this season at least. Personally I don't see another striker on the books capable of getting more than 10-15. Not sure why people are moaning about him, but then moaners gotta moan I guess and pickings are slim at the moment.

 

[Revolution]

If we're comparing with Beattie, remember when we sold him in January and then our goalscoring and results actually improved with Henderson in the side?

Remember that our form dropped in the month after Beattie left and then Cotterill was restored to the team and Sharp dropped, which actually started our winning run?
Remember scoring 2 goals in the last 5 league games (1 a penalty) and just missing promotion?
Remember Henderson getting injured (again) and Craig Beattie playing up front on his own in the playoff final?
Remember James Beattie helping to save Stoke from relegation from the PL - where they remain to this day - with 7 goals in 16 games?

 

[Ricky]

Little evidence on Lavery thus far apart from a few broadly positive views from our pals at S6. And when did we give a fart about what they think ?

Early days yet but in the brief snippets, looks a bit like a headless chicken thus far. I am sure he will improve !

UTB.

He's played a handful of minutes off the bench without getting much of the ball. Which striker who can run wouldn't look like a headless chicken?

Remember that our form dropped in the month after Beattie left and then Cotterill was restored to the team and Sharp dropped, which actually started our winning run?
Remember scoring 2 goals in the last 5 league games (1 a penalty) and just missing promotion?
Remember Henderson getting injured (again) and Craig Beattie playing up front on his own in the playoff final?
Remember James Beattie helping to save Stoke from relegation from the PL - where they remain to this day - with 7 goals in 16 games?

We had good wins over Watford and Norwich immediately after he left. We could've done with him towards the end but our best period of the season was without him.
I think Beattie was close to past it before we signed him, Everton wouldn't have got rid otherwise. He scored a few goals for us but a lot of them were penalties, and his general play wasn't up to standard for someone who cost so much. He did do well for Stoke but that was his last hurrah, it says it all that he ended up at Rangers in no time, where he did nothing, before re-joining us and doing even less.

 

[Nick Jansky]

Not sure the captaincy sits well with Billy. Has that had an effect?

 

[Ricky]

Not sure the captaincy sits well with Billy. Has that had an effect?

I think it possibly has. Giving it to someone else has to be worth a try if his form doesn't improve.

He could retain the 'club captain' status with Wright or O'Connell taking the responsibility on matchdays.

I think O'Connell will be the captain long term anyway, quite revealing that he got the armband on Tuesday and not Basham.

 

[CaptainMorgans]

My two penneth... I think Matt Done is a little underrated. Comments that he "lacks quality" and "isn't a natural goalscorer," just don't ring true to me. His work rate is exceptional, his high pressing up field leads to several mistakes by the opposition and occasionally leads to chances. When he first joined us he was bagging every other game and most of those goals were from in and around the six yard box which shows good strikers instinct.

Billy Sharp. I completely despair at our fans who slate him. His ratio, yet again, is roughly 1 in 2. His link up play is exceptional at this level, he plays some role in most of our goals that he doesn't score himself. He does miss chances, but it's his intelligent movement that gets him in those positions in the first place. He's a threat that other teams are wary of. At times he does fade out of games, but he's a 30 year old striker playing in League 1 - I just don't understand what is expected. The point that has been alluded to several times is that any other team in this division would take him in a heartbeat and he would start every week. I agree with that. He's just captained us through a turbulent time and we seem to have come through the other side. He's not shy in taking on interviews after defeat and he's clearly a leader who has this club's best interests at heart. If he's misfiring a little, the answer isn't dropping him. We need to get behind him, he'll come good, he's too good not to.

Up top, with a fit Lavery and Clarke in reserve we're fine. Our issues are midfield.

 

[DronnieBlade]

The one area of the pitch that Wilder stated at the time of his appointment was mostly sorted (Clarke bought in as the final piece of the jigsaw here) has now become a problem. The joint sales of DCL and Che have not helped !

With Lavery & Clarke injured, and, to at least some extent, both Done and Sharp looking like they are in need of a rest, our options are very very limited.

Heres hoping the International break does the squad some good for once !

UTB.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

We weren't shite because of Clarke, we were shite due to the system Clarke's presence partly dictated, along with other reasons.

He might never be an ideal partner for Sharp but in the current 3-5-2 I think we'd have done just as well with those two up front, if not better.

I disagree with the last sentence. I think the 352 suits the Sharp/ Done combo better. Done runs the channels well offering an out ball at times. It was especially apparent at Gillingham. There were numerous time when Duffy, Basham our Coutts and even the wing-backs would be in a tight spot and just clip a ball into the channels for Done to chase down. He’d either get there or force the defender to put the ball out whilst facing his own goal moving us up the pitch. I also think having Done and Basham in the team improves our pressing game significantly.


The way I see it is like this. It’s too early to say if Lavery will prove better than Done. For now, Sharp and Done are in decent form and we’re winning games so the shirts are theirs to lose. When fit, Clarke and Lavery offer us different options and should be introduced from the bench. If, based on their cameos they are an improvement on Sharp and Done, they should get a place on merit. Big if though in my opinion. I can seem them being akin to the Chief/Peschi combo

 

[1danewhitehouse]

How do we know someone else wouldn't have scored these penalties?
Perhaps someone with more pace could generate us a few more penalties to convert? And as for his finishing....not seen a lot of good finishes this season. And give Done good service....Clarke...Lavery great service and they too would score 20 FFS.

But in a side not creating loads of clear chances we need some players who can make their own goals, we have none with Done and Sharp up top.

Very good finish at home to Rochdale.


Good headed finish at Wimbledon.


Tap in v Oxford.


2 converted pens to win points in the dying moments of games with the pressure on.


Yes there’s room for improvement. We’d all love another Brian Deane but Billy is doing his job and deserves his shirt for now.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

"Billy...just score goals. Don't worry about anything else....you just have to score goals. Everyone else will do all the work for you, you just have to wait for them to make you a goal so you can tap it in."
And if you think a Wilder team is operated like that I'm afraid you are wrong.

Never slagged Evans....right up to him getting caught. Was always a good player. Nor Beattie...scored goals all on his own.

Billy works for the team far more than Beattie did.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Sharp hasn't had a good start, and looks a little off the pace. This could mean he's simply going through a bad patch (which all footballers do) or he's over the hill.

Either way, he's one of only 2 fit senior strikers, so he's going to play for the forseeable future, like it or not.

I think it probably has more to do with the fact that he’s no longer playing for his favourite manager. When players and managers have that relationship (Sharp and Adkins, Brayford and Clough, Kenny and Warnock etc.) then you often see the best form of the player when under his preferred manager. He still looks decent to me. Just not quite at last season’s level and I think that’s probably the biggest reason for it.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Why the sudden downer on Matt Done ? His work rate is a vital part of the way we play ,just because hes missed a couple he should be 4th choice striker ? Sometimes players are much better when they aren't playing in some peoples eyes ,instead of looking whats in front of you. Done is working his balls off and deserves a bit of praise.

Agreed. His technique isn’t great but he has some attributes that really help the way we play and is in the team on merit.

I think the idea is that if Lavery can match his pressing but offer a bit more composure on the ball then he might displace him. I’ve not seen enough of Lavery yet to say whether I agree or not.


What I will say is this though. Our way of playing asks the front 2 to get through a lot of work and I think we’ll need all 4 of our strikers to share the load so I’m not too concerned right now about one over the other as I’m sure they’ll all get chances.

 

[DronnieBlade]

He's played a handful of minutes off the bench without getting much of the ball. Which striker who can run wouldn't look like a headless chicken?




We had good wins over Watford and Norwich immediately after he left. We could've done with him towards the end but our best period of the season was without him.
I think Beattie was close to past it before we signed him, Everton wouldn't have got rid otherwise. He scored a few goals for us but a lot of them were penalties, and his general play wasn't up to standard for someone who cost so much. He did do well for Stoke but that was his last hurrah, it says it all that he ended up at Rangers in no time, where he did nothing, before re-joining us and doing even less.

Missing the point Rick. He has NOT looked good. Albeit for just a few minutes. He might be mustard, he might not. So the jury is still out. No one is judging him on just a few short minutes.

Now even I am not that good

UTB

 

[Ricky]

The one area of the pitch that Wilder stated at the time of his appointment was mostly sorted (Clarke bought in as the final piece of the jigsaw here) has now become a problem. The joint sales of DCL and Che have not helped !

With Lavery & Clarke injured, and, to at least some extent, both Done and Sharp looking like they are in need of a rest, our options are very very limited.

Heres hoping the International break does the squad some good for once !

UTB.

Che had to go, and McNulty wanted to go and get games, but there's no way we should've let DCL go until at least January. We had nothing to lose and plenty to gain with him, in terms of contribution and value. He would've got starts in the cup games, appearances off the bench in the league and maybe the odd start. If it was Wilder's decision it's his worst one so far.

Missing the point Rick. He has NOT looked good. Albeit for just a few minutes. He might be mustard, he might not. So the jury is still out. No one is judging him on just a few short minutes.

Now even I am not that good

UTB

I'd love to know what point I'm missing. I think it's just something you like to say. Saying he looks like a headless chicken is ridiculous. And it looks like you are judging him based on a few minutes, to a certain extent at least.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Che had to go, and McNulty wanted to go and get games, but there's no way we should've let DCL go until at least January. We had nothing to lose and plenty to gain with him, in terms of contribution and value. He would've got starts in the cup games, appearances off the bench in the league and maybe the odd start. If it was Wilder's decision it's his worst one so far.




I'd love to know what point I'm missing. I think it's just something you like to say. Saying he looks like a headless chicken is ridiculous. And it looks like you are judging him based on a few minutes, to a certain extent at least.

The point / my point being that there is no evidence to suggest Lavery is the messiah. What little I have seen, in fact, suggests this is unlikely although I have gone to great detail to state I am not making a judgement just yet.

You may believe otherwise as is evident in your post #2.

UTB

 

[Chali 2na]

I think it probably has more to do with the fact that he’s no longer playing for his favourite manager. When players and managers have that relationship (Sharp and Adkins, Brayford and Clough, Kenny and Warnock etc.) then you often see the best form of the player when under his preferred manager. He still looks decent to me. Just not quite at last season’s level and I think that’s probably the biggest reason for it.

Could be, then again, he's scored goals throughout his career with or without adkins, so I wouldn't say it's a certainty.

We're looking for reasons to explain his poor form when in actual fact, it could be just that; poor form.