Coutts - is he done?

[wizadry]

There is a lot in that. As a kind of link man type player who brings others into the game, Coutts is the type of player who can look like they are running the game in a good side, but can look lazy and ineffective in a poor side.

That's also why I think he didn't control games enough last year wizadry - the the fact he did on occasion surely shows what he is capable of.

And that my friend is what's very frustrating and why i don't want him here, it's no good 1 every 5, we need more than that.

 

[alcoblade]

So let me get this right....someone has told you Coutts is on more than Hammond was, and you believed it?

The same Coutts who was at Derby with Clough, and brought in at a time when Derby were still rebuilding their squad sensibly? And the same Hammond that came to us from the Premier league with a Premier league contract (35k a week at Leicester) that we were paying half of? Even his year deal was still double digit figures per week with appearances.

There really is some guff flying about regards budgets under Clough. Brayford was the only player where a strict wage ceiling was breached for while Clough was here.
Coutts may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he was brought in to do a specific job for a specific manager, on a decent wage for L1. Still doesn't warrant some of the bile being directed his way by some "fans" of our club.

Same fans may well be eating their words when Wilder has used Coutts a fair bit.....Wilder has after all been quite vocal in his praise of Coutts!

However much he's paid, it's ten times more than he's actually earned.

UTB

 

[wizadry]

Some fair comments there but as the thread is actually about Coutts, why didn't he work harder last season in an attempt to put things right?

You saved me a few lines there, I feel like I'm all lined out on this thread already.

 

[Grizzly blade]

Risky Alcoblade.....though I suppose defining 'integral' could be open to debate.

I think he will start a few games, but generally feature from the bench when a change in tactics is needed.

 

[alcoblade]

Risky Alcoblade.....though I suppose defining 'integral' could be open to debate.

I think he will start a few games, but generally feature from the bench when a change in tactics is needed.

If Wilder plays the way he suggests then Coutts simply couldn't cope. And if by some stench of the imagination he proved he could cope, then what on God's earth has be doing for the last two seasons?

UTB

 

[Ricky]

It won't surprise me one bit if he's looked decent or even stood out in pre season. Training and friendlies are very different to proper matches. If Wilder's starting to have second thoughts about him I'm sure he'll realise he was right in the first place after he's seen him in competitive games. Injury's fucked him and he simply won't do the dirty side of the game, which makes him unselectable in Wilder's system/team.

 

[Jehovah]

I assume then that we will soon see a thread on Done?

He was awful last season.

Or how about Brayford? He too was average most the time when he came back.
Adams....Baxter....etc etc etc.....nearly all the players (some still here) didn't perform to the acceptable level for United last season.

Just wonder why some see fit to call him a parasite and pick him Out for the abuse he is getting on here from some. I would bet Coutts himself might admit he was disappointed in his performances last season, and will realise that if he had been better he certainly wouldn't be on the transfer list. I would also bet (as Wilders own comments seem to confirm) he is working very hard to put that right.

Well I didn't create this thread but I think Coutts and Hammond were consistently the most lazy, awful players throughout the season. If he was just poor last season, id say give him a chance, but not when half the time he didn't seem to give a shit.

 

[sitwell]

Well I didn't create this thread but I think Coutts and Hammond were consistently the most lazy, awful players throughout the season. If he was just poor last season, id say give him a chance, but not when half the time he didn't seem to give a shit.

Lets be honest here ,apart from Sharp which players did look 'interested' ,on form or up to it last season ? We had an absolutely awful manager who couldn't inspire shit ,wouldn't know a tactic if he bought some and was less interested than the players despite his endeavour bollocks.
Lets see with Wilders 4-2-3-1 system ,Coutts may play a part ,I doubt it but he could on the right of the 3 with Brayford behind him. With a well balanced manager and team some players will rise to it. I think Coutts will be on his way which will be a shame as we haven't seen enough footballers who can actually play for ages.

 

[Fraggle Blade]

Well I didn't create this thread but I think Coutts and Hammond were consistently the most lazy, awful players throughout the season. If he was just poor last season, id say give him a chance, but not when half the time he didn't seem to give a shit.

Think i'd have gone for Hammond and Woolford

 

[Revolution]

No goals
Very few assists
No penetrative passes
Can't run
Can't tackle

The worst example of the black hole that Clough and Adkins created in our midfield.

The big lesson from Coutts' signing? Same as Wallace - don't sign crocks. Stay away from players with terrible injury records, or if you can't help yourself, give them short, cheap deals. Wilder, thank goodness, understands this at least.

 

[Sean Thornton]

See my previous points Mr T.

I like others can only suggest possible reasons. But I do think the whole apathy around the club last season and the poor management was the sole cause of most players underperforming. Coutts could have tried harder perhaps? If that was indeed the problem.
Adkins can't have thought he lacked effort as he often picked him.

Adkins picked Hammond often. Praised him often in fact. I think you're probably right with "Adkins can't have thought"

 

[Sean Thornton]

Think i'd have gone for Hammond and Woolford

I don't think Woolford was lazy. Or nesh. Just not good enough, he certainly tried .

 

[Fraggle Blade]

I don't think Woolford was lazy. Or nesh. Just not good enough, he certainly tried .

For me Woolford had the same lazy swagger as Coutts

 

[JohnDenver]

I don't think Woolford was lazy. Or nesh. Just not good enough, he certainly tried .

You reckon? To me he looked like a player who'd given up on his career. Another wage collector marking time.

His CV suggested a player who should have been more than able to contribute an awful lot more.

 

[Rodley]

I'm generally an optimist. But even I'm struggling to see what Couttsy brings to the table, he's like Jonathan Hunt with less intensity.

 

[Sean Thornton]

You reckon? To me he looked like a player who'd given up on his career. Another wage collector marking time.

His CV suggested a player who should have been more than able to contribute an awful lot more.

He should yes. But I think he was far from lazy, certainly not like the two twats under discussion. He never struck me as promising much, unlike the managerial hype surrounding the other two.

 

[alcoblade]

Lets be honest here ,apart from Sharp which players did look 'interested' ,on form or up to it last season ? We had an absolutely awful manager who couldn't inspire shit ,wouldn't know a tactic if he bought some and was less interested than the players despite his endeavour bollocks.
Lets see with Wilders 4-2-3-1 system ,Coutts may play a part ,I doubt it but he could on the right of the 3 with Brayford behind him. With a well balanced manager and team some players will rise to it. I think Coutts will be on his way which will be a shame as we haven't seen enough footballers who can actually play for ages.

As pointed out before, he was actually "better" under Adkins than he was under the manager who signed him, and then barely played him.

It's far too convenient to blame 2 years of non performance on Adkins. Coutts was once again one of the worst performers under both Adkins and Clough. Somehow Adkins failed to spot it, as he did for too long with Coutts' more talented yet still useless clone, Baxter.

He's available for transfer, yet according to Wilder himself, nobody is interested.


UTB

 

[Cyprus Blade]

And Baxter was/is a cunt ,a useless cunt ,a useless druggie cunt ,a useless druggie cunt who took the piss out of all Sheff Utd fans all the time he was here. Cunt.

Come on Sitters - don't pull your punches - what did you really think about Baxter Not that it has any relevance to Coutts and can he do the job for Sheffield United FC?

Some fair comments there but as the thread is actually about Coutts, why didn't he work harder last season in an attempt to put things right?

Quite agree the thread is about Coutts. He had undoubted ability above this level before his injury but I fear he has lost a lot of his game now and either can't or doesn't want to consistently apply himself for the club. Is he done? Nope - he has wages to come and since no-one else wants him he will sit here eating up the wage budget. Therefore, as cash is short, Wilder is stuck with him and has holes in midfield he is struggling to plug. From his comments about getting in a MF he doesn't see Coutts as the answer and Coutts is still on the list isn't he?

Why didn't he try last season? Perhaps he plays for certain managers (not clubs) and not others - trouble is he didn't for the one that brought him and that is very concerning. Perhaps he likes warm sunny days and hates cold, wet night matches (eg Fleetwood away). Perhaps he didn't like the replacement manager and wasn't opposed to seeing him go down the road so went through the motions. Perhaps he thinks League One is beneath him. Only he knows the answer so we can speculate wildly to no great advantage.

Joking about being overweight as he has in the past indicates a worrying attitude to fitness for someone who was badly injured and that may be why he has taken so long (the missing pre-seasons is a factor true, but not a clinching argument) to get fit - if he even can. Attitude may well be his problem and that can be cancerous to a team - note his past at Preston and Peterborough where this was a problem. Preston even told him not to go near the ground at one point.

What I do know is anyone who turns out in the red and white who doesn't work for Sheffield United FC shouldn't be here. The club is ALWAYS bigger than the player. As my old boss used to say, it doesn't matter how good you are, if you don't turn up for work you are no good to me. I will be pleased if Coutts applies himself, but somehow I doubt he will.

 

[alcoblade]

No goals
Very few assists
No penetrative passes
Can't run
Can't tackle

The worst example of the black hole that Clough and Adkins created in our midfield.

The big lesson from Coutts' signing? Same as Wallace - don't sign crocks. Stay away from players with terrible injury records, or if you can't help yourself, give them short, cheap deals. Wilder, thank goodness, understands this at least.

Amen

 

[Ricky]

If we're talking laziness, then I can't believe Sammon hasn't had a mention yet. He was a disgrace. And braindead to boot.

 

[alcoblade]

If we're talking laziness, then I can't believe Sammon hasn't had a mention yet. He was a disgrace. And braindead to boot.

I think many of us have managed to erase that useless fucker from memory.

Thanks for reminding us.

UTB

 

[Bergen Blade]

Interesting when a player divides opinion to this extent. I think most would agree that Coutts is

• good technically
• poor defensively
• poor in terms of fitness

Then I think the biggest disagreement is how much he can potentially contribute offensively, and some will be hoping Wilder's arrival will have improved his fitness and attitude

Personally I think his best role is as a deep playmaker with plenty of super-fit runners around him, compensating for what he doesn't do. He's decent at making himself available, can hold on to the ball and find a teammate with an accurate pass. If this is done with a bit of urgency and the teammate is ready to bomb forward, and other players are doing the same off the ball, then Coutts may have started a good move. Under Adkins our tempos was poor and players often stood still and little came from Coutts' playmaking.

Defensively there is less running in this deep role, which is why you sometimes see the odd 38 year old coping there. With two aggressive box to box players next to him, they'd do most of the pressing. Coutts would still have to improve from last season though. His defensive positioning was sloppy, his tackling was poor and he was reluctant to track back and chase. This probably implies a 4-1-4-1 system, which Clough played, but Wilder is likely to choose 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2, and he'd like us to press high up the pitch.

This means we'll have two midfielders who will be required to cover a lot of grass, both pressing high up the pitch and contributing in the last third, and also getting back to help out the defence. It is difficult to see Coutts being able to do this.

An example from a game last season, where Coutts didn't push up, meaning his teammates' pressing was in vain:



Adkins never seemed to see the problem with this, but it is vital in Wilder's playing style, there's no room for passengers who regularly lets teammates down. I think Coutts needs quite a transformation to be able to do the midfield role successfully and adjust to Wilder's demands.

 

[Revolution]

Personally I think his best role is as a deep playmaker with plenty of super-fit runners around him, compensating for what he doesn't do. He's decent at making himself available, can hold on to the ball and find a teammate with an accurate pass. If this is done with a bit of urgency and the teammate is ready to bomb forward, and other players are doing the same off the ball, then Coutts may have started a good move. Under Adkins our tempos was poor and players often stood still and little came from Coutts' playmaking.

Defensively there is less running in this deep role, which is why you sometimes see the odd 38 year old coping there. With two aggressive box to box players next to him, they'd do most of the pressing.

But he won't have two aggressive box to box players next to him. He'll have Chris Basham and John Fleck. Basham is not this sort of player.

So if Coutts is in your team you'll have at least 2 players who are not going to score or assist in your 3 man midfield (hopefully Fleck will do this - his scoring record is not good though). That's not going to get you promotion.

We should not be changing our formation to accommodate players like Coutts, Reed and Scougall who bring nothing defensively and next to nothing offensively.

Your last point is bang on: Wilder has no room for passengers, which is what Coutts is.

 

[Moon Beam Blade]

Ive seen enough of Coutts too, he flatters to deceive. But I suppose, looking at it from a different angle if his work rate matched his ability he wouldn't be playing for us in League One. Is he one the players transfer listed?

 

[Bergen Blade]

But he won't have two aggressive box to box players next to him. He'll have Chris Basham and John Fleck. Basham is not this sort of player.

So if Coutts is in your team you'll have at least 2 players who are not going to score or assist in your 3 man midfield (hopefully Fleck will do this - his scoring record is not good though). That's not going to get you promotion.

We should not be changing our formation to accommodate players like Coutts, Reed and Scougall who bring nothing defensively and next to nothing offensively.

Your last point is bang on: Wilder has no room for passengers, which is what Coutts is.

I was saying what would be Coutts preferred role in which preferred system, not arguing that's what we should do with the players available.

I'm happy to go along with Wilder's preferred formation, it's all about finding players who fits the formation and playing style and who complement each other.

Regarding your on-going point about our midfield contributing goals I think you will be pleased this season, although probably not too many from the two central midfielders. I expect quite a few from the 3 behind the main striker.

 

[Revolution]

I was saying what would be Coutts preferred role in which preferred system, not arguing that's what we should do with the players available.

I'm happy to go along with Wilder's preferred formation, it's all about finding players who fits the formation and playing style and who complement each other.

Regarding your on-going point about our midfield contributing goals I think you will be pleased this season, although probably not too many from the two central midfielders. I expect quite a few from the 3 behind the main striker.

I have high hopes for Duffy, and one goal from Fleck is better than zero from Coutts/Reed/Scougall. I still think we need someone else in midfield, though it's clear no one is coming before Saturday.

 

[sitwell]

Come on Sitters - don't pull your punches - what did you really think about Baxter Not that it has any relevance to Coutts and can he do the job for Sheffield United FC?



Quite agree the thread is about Coutts. He had undoubted ability above this level before his injury but I fear he has lost a lot of his game now and either can't or doesn't want to consistently apply himself for the club. Is he done? Nope - he has wages to come and since no-one else wants him he will sit here eating up the wage budget. Therefore, as cash is short, Wilder is stuck with him and has holes in midfield he is struggling to plug. From his comments about getting in a MF he doesn't see Coutts as the answer and Coutts is still on the list isn't he?

Why didn't he try last season? Perhaps he plays for certain managers (not clubs) and not others - trouble is he didn't for the one that brought him and that is very concerning. Perhaps he likes warm sunny days and hates cold, wet night matches (eg Fleetwood away). Perhaps he didn't like the replacement manager and wasn't opposed to seeing him go down the road so went through the motions. Perhaps he thinks League One is beneath him. Only he knows the answer so we can speculate wildly to no great advantage.

Joking about being overweight as he has in the past indicates a worrying attitude to fitness for someone who was badly injured and that may be why he has taken so long (the missing pre-seasons is a factor true, but not a clinching argument) to get fit - if he even can. Attitude may well be his problem and that can be cancerous to a team - note his past at Preston and Peterborough where this was a problem. Preston even told him not to go near the ground at one point.

What I do know is anyone who turns out in the red and white who doesn't work for Sheffield United FC shouldn't be here. The club is ALWAYS bigger than the player. As my old boss used to say, it doesn't matter how good you are, if you don't turn up for work you are no good to me. I will be pleased if Coutts applies himself, but somehow I doubt he will.

Preston also made him captain at one point. I feel he has a metal block regarding his dislocated knee injury ,which can put a player back years. He has to get over this if he is to become a regular.
I don't think he will be a part of Wilders plans due to the pressing game he wants ,but if he has enough players to do that and he wants a fast passing attacking game with quick forwards ,Coutts would be an excellent link man. The Adkins style of passing between the defenders in a slow build up was no good to the abilities of many players including Coutts ,the only time it suited him was when he linked with Brayford ,but Brayford got injured and that was that. The same goes for Brayford ,lets hope he can recover from his injury as I felt he was the same last season.

 

[Wards]

Coutts may have all the talent in the world (he hasn't, but go with me...) but the fact remains he's a lazy idle bastard that my 94 year old grandmother could knock about. When we needed people to roll their sleeves up he certainly wouldn't be one I'd place any money on.

 

[Moon Beam Blade]

Preston also made him captain at one point. I feel he has a metal block regarding his dislocated knee injury ,which can put a player back years. He has to get over this if he is to become a regular.
I don't think he will be a part of Wilders plans due to the pressing game he wants ,but if he has enough players to do that and he wants a fast passing attacking game with quick forwards ,Coutts would be an excellent link man. The Adkins style of passing between the defenders in a slow build up was no good to the abilities of many players including Coutts ,the only time it suited him was when he linked with Brayford ,but Brayford got injured and that was that. The same goes for Brayford ,lets hope he can recover from his injury as I felt he was the same last season.

I reckon Reed would make a better "link man"

 

[sitwell]

I reckon Reed would make a better "link man"

I think Reed is miles away from the team. He hasn't moved on physically and looks very lightweight ,he maybe another who suffered under Adkins year of hell but from what Ive seen of him pre season he looks a bit lost atm.