Adams & DCL - A Positive View

[grafikhaus]

It's a toughie. If we were to get £3m for Che, other teams would automatically hike the prices for players we're interested in (Morsy?) because they know we've got some cash. But isn't this exactly what we're trying to do with Newcastle?

On the one hand, Che is a 'prospect', no more. Will his game prosper in the Third Division and surrounded by our kind of players? Doubtful. But last season, Wigan took four months to get into their stride and then recruited wisely. They certainly didn't start selling their better players.

I dunno but would understand if Che wanted to leave - as long as the majority of the fee was re-invested.

 

[Ricky]

Not selling would not be for the sake of not selling.

It would be not selling to allow one of our best players to play for us this season.

He probably won't even get into our strongest 11. We're not short in his position and would barely need to sign anyone to replace him.

Even if he was a key player would it be better to keep him than potentially bring in another 3 or 4 key players, the likes of Morsy?

If we keep him and he has another season like last season then will these clubs still be interested? I doubt it.

 

[Revolution]

He probably won't even get into our strongest 11. We're not short in his position and would barely need to sign anyone to replace him.

Even if he was a key player would it be better to keep him than potentially bring in another 3 or 4 key players, the likes of Morsy?

If we keep him and he has another season like last season then will these clubs still be interested? I doubt it.

He got 11 goals last year. Who on the books now is going to replicate that?

 

[Ricky]

It's a toughie. If we were to get £3m for Che, other teams would automatically hike the prices for players we're interested in (Morsy?) because they know we've got some cash.

Which is why we've got to sign the players we want from clubs who are likely to try and extort us ASAP, before selling Adams. We know we can get good money for him, so there's no need to wait.

He got 11 goals last year. Who on the books now is going to replicate that?

Done, McNulty, DCL, Duffy, Clarke potentially.

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

DCL took his goal really well against Grimsby.

 

[Revolution]

Which is why we've got to sign the players we want from clubs who are likely to try and extort us ASAP, before selling Adams. We know we can get good money for him, so there's no need to wait.




Done, McNulty, DCL, Duffy, Clarke potentially.

Clarke doesn't play for us. That would be a career high for Duffy. Done got nowhere near that last season (albeit with injuries and being messed about). McNulty maybe, but he's not going to be playing with Sharp. DCL has scored the grand total of zero goals for United in competitive games.

It's not so easy to replace double figures in goals.

And it is always easier to retain someone who you know can produce rather than go with someone who might produce. A look at our transfer dealings from the last decade bear this out.

If memory serves, the last teenager to score double figures for United in the league was Keith Edwards in 1977. We are useless at developing and retaining players who score goals. We need to draw a line in the sand here unless the money is daft, and 3m is not daft enough.

 

[Ricky]

Clarke doesn't play for us. That would be a career high for Duffy. Done got nowhere near that last season (albeit with injuries and being messed about). McNulty maybe, but he's not going to be playing with Sharp. DCL has scored the grand total of zero goals for United in competitive games.

It's not so easy to replace double figures in goals.

And it is always easier to retain someone who you know can produce rather than go with someone who might produce. A look at our transfer dealings from the last decade bear this out.

I'm not saying they can all score 12 goals. Most of them could if played regularly. Obviously they won't all play regularly, but they'll still chip in with more than Adams would score on his own. If they're used properly this season, replacing Che's goals will be no problem whatsoever. 12 goals isn't a lot. Done and McNulty would both score more than that if they played the same number of games.

 

[Revolution]

I'm not saying they can all score 12 goals. Most of them could if played regularly. Obviously they won't all play regularly, but they'll still chip in with more than Adams would score on his own. If they're used properly this season, replacing Che's goals will be no problem whatsoever. 12 goals isn't a lot. Done and McNulty would both score more than that if they played the same number of games.

No problem whatsoever? That's a bold statement with this pathetic non scoring midfield.

We will see, no doubt, as I am sure Adams will be sold.

 

[David Lee's first touch]

I'm not saying they can all score 12 goals. Most of them could if played regularly. Obviously they won't all play regularly, but they'll still chip in with more than Adams would score on his own. If they're used properly this season, replacing Che's goals will be no problem whatsoever. 12 goals isn't a lot. Done and McNulty would both score more than that if they played the same number of games.

From the left wing??? Really

 

[Ricky]

From the left wing??? Really

Because Che played left wing all last season didn't he.

 

[FoxtrotAlphaZulu]

Quite.

If I were United I would laugh in the faces of any team that offered less than 5 million for Adams.

Is he worth that? I don't know. But these clubs are swimming in money. If we are to sell (and I would not, if it were up to me) we should get a proper payday for once.

If they won't come up with silly money - well, tough. He can stay and try to help us win promotion, which will be worth a lot more than 3 million to us.

Quite right.

There's no way he's worth £5m. it's debatable whether he's even worth £3m.

So, if there's silly money being banded about, we should put just as silly an amount on his head and test their resolve. If we sell him, we get shitloads of cash. If we don't he's a decent player to have around or to bring on from the bench.

He's an asset to us so we should absolutely call the shots.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I've always liked DCL,last season he seemed to be the only player we had who could direct the ball with his head, or win and use a high ball from a goal kick against a C/H, and that is while he's still a novice, very good prospect for me, Adams went backwards under Adkins and I think both will benefit from another season under Wilder....

I think it’s a bit unfair to say he went backwards under Adkins. Let’s look at what we saw from him under Clough.


A good debut against Southampton.


An excellent cameo against Spurs.


A struggle to get into the team over the rest of the season with Clough saying he was struggling to make an impact in the reserves. The odd cameo here and there where he failed to make an impact.


A very ordinary display against Chesterfield on the last day of the season.


A very good cameo v Swindon in the playoffs.



Basically, the sample size under Clough was so small, it’s difficult to draw comparisons. But he was here half a season and made only a few appearances because he didn’t do enough to impress the manager. Last season he played a lot more and was a mixed bag. Excellent against Chesterfield and Rochdale at home in the early part of the season. Lost his way in the middle of the season when his dad died and came back in the latter part, again, with some mixed performances. I remember him looking particularly promising at home to Vale just after we’d changed to 352.


Overall, he’s inconsistent which is to be expected of a 19 year old. Hopefully, if we keep him, he can get a better level of consistency and make a position his own.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

It does if it can make itself stronger overall. What everyone is missing is that Chris Wilder and Alan Knill quite clearly want this deal to go through so they can do some pretty ambitious deals with the dosh. Surely that counts for something? Or do we want fans on the internet running the club now?

My concern is the quality we can attract at this level.


Will we be able to bring in the quality we need or will we just have quantity again like we have done the last couple of years. If we sell Adams and sign 6 average, experienced league 1 players, that’s a bad thing. If we sell him and sign say 2 very good league 1 players (say Clarke and Morsy), loan a youngster (maybe Armstrong) and maybe pluck another kid or 2 from obscurity for the future (like we did with Adams) then it could be a good move.

If I had faith in the club to recruit well, I wouldn't be nearly so opposed to the sale.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Couple of points, firstly if we get 3m for Adams why does anyone think it will get spent? Remember Harry, Murphy and all the others.

Secondly if we get 3m for Adams the cost of anyone we are interested in will sky rocket.

Likely outcome is we will sell Adams and weaken the squad , history tells us this is the case so where is the evidence it will be different this time ?

We did spend the Harry Money. We bought Brayford, Coutts, Done and Freeman in the following JTW as well as some loans (COG, S. Davies, Holt etc.). It was just spent poorly overall. I’ll give you Murphy though.

 

[Revolution]

My concern is the quality we can attract at this level.


Will we be able to bring in the quality we need or will we just have quantity again like we have done the last couple of years. If we sell Adams and sign 6 average, experienced league 1 players, that’s a bad thing. If we sell him and sign say 2 very good league 1 players (say Clarke and Morsy), loan a youngster (maybe Armstrong) and maybe pluck another kid or 2 from obscurity for the future (like we did with Adams) then it could be a good move.

If I had faith in the club to recruit well, I wouldn't be nearly so opposed to the sale.

This is my major problem with it too. We know we have a player who can contribute. Heaven knows who we would replace him with.

 

[Ricky]

This is my major problem with it too. We know we have a player who can contribute. Heaven knows who we would replace him with.

Clarke? Then also a left winger, which we need whether Adams stays or not.

The only way replacing him would be any sort of problem is if by replacing you mean signing someone with similar potential/value. But potential's not our priority at the moment.

 

[Revolution]

Clarke? Then also a left winger, which we need whether Adams stays or not.

The only way replacing him would be any sort of problem is if by replacing you mean signing someone with similar potential/value. But potential's not our priority at the moment.

Well, I watched United receive 8 figures combined for Kilgallon and the Kyles and replace them with no defenders of any value whatsoever, so I will reserve judgment on how easy it will be.

 

[Ricky]

Well, I watched United receive 8 figures combined for Kilgallon and the Kyles and replace them with no defenders of any value whatsoever, so I will reserve judgment on how easy it will be.

Maybe it would be difficult if Adams was anywhere near as good or important as Kilgallon or the Kyles.

 

[Revolution]

Maybe it would be difficult if Adams was anywhere near as good or important as Kilgallon or the Kyles.

I still say you are too blasé about how easy it is to replace Adams goals.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

After those sales we brought in the likes of Andy Taylor, Johannes Ertl, Paul Connolly, Nyron Nosworthy, Kyle Bartley, Neil Collins, Marcel Seip, Jonathan Fortune, Andrew Davies, Toni Kallio, Joe Mattock and Shane Lowry. I think we can be forgiven for our scepticism.,


I agree with RIcky though that Adams isn't AS important so the blow wouldn't be as big. But I'm still really unconvinced as to how it will pan out if we sell. Leon Clarke deal falls through and we end up bringing in Michael Higdon MK2.

 

[LenTednTony]

Quite right.

There's no way he's worth £5m. it's debatable whether he's even worth £3m.

So, if there's silly money being banded about, we should put just as silly an amount on his head and test their resolve. If we sell him, we get shitloads of cash. If we don't he's a decent player to have around or to bring on from the bench.

He's an asset to us so we should absolutely call the shots.

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, I don't agree with laughing in their faces. Look how excorcised we got when Flitvroft and Clarke supposedly laughed at our low five figure offer. Just bat it back saying No, Too Low!

 

[itsinyerblood]

It does if it can make itself stronger overall. What everyone is missing is that Chris Wilder and Alan Knill quite clearly want this deal to go through so they can do some pretty ambitious deals with the dosh. Surely that counts for something? Or do we want fans on the internet running the club now?

Based on a set of variables, I'd hope we finally have a management team who are grounded in the present but know what could be ahead of them and this club. You're right, based on astute evaluation of the squad's immediate needs both Wilder and Knill appreciate that with a healthy budget the strengthening that could happen outweighs any current concerns about what Adams could be worth a few years from now. And should young Adams value increase, isn't this why we ensure there's a percentage of any future sale heading in our direction?

 

[Ricky]

I still say you are too blasé about how easy it is to replace Adams goals.

Do you really see it being a problem if we sign Clarke and have a team that's more capable of creating than last season? We already have Duffy who'll be a big improvement in that department, not to mention Fleck in the middle. In addition to that we'll have more striking options with McNulty not being out on loan, Done being used correctly and DCL emerging.

If we sell Adams I think it would take a monumental fuck up not to make ourselves considerably stronger should we re-invest, and I don't think Wilder's got that sort of fuck up in him.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Do you really see it being a problem if we sign Clarke and have a team that's more capable of creating than last season? We already have Duffy who'll be a big improvement in that department, not to mention Fleck in the middle. In addition to that we'll have more striking options with McNulty not being out on loan, Done being used correctly and DCL emerging.

If we sell Adams I think it would take a monumental fuck up not to make ourselves considerably stronger should we re-invest, and I don't think Wilder's got that sort of fuck up in him.

Well said Sir, well said - UTB

 

[BushBlade]

Well, chances are we'll sell him and no one should be at all surprised when we do.

 

[Pinchy]

This is my major problem with it too. We know we have a player who can contribute. Heaven knows who we would replace him with.

He won't be in the starting XI anyway. We've got bigger priorities than replacing a substitute!

Wilder wants this deal to happen. I find that fact quite persuasive, personally.

 

[Pinchy]

Well, chances are we'll sell him and no one should be at all surprised when we do.

If it's for the silly money presently rumoured, most of us will be both astonished and delighted, I imagine.

 

[Bladesman]

Well, chances are we'll sell him and no one should be at all surprised when we do.

I wonder what sell on clause Ilkeston have.

 

[Pinchy]

How you know this about Wilder and Knill and when have we ever done this?

I concentrate very carefully on what they do and don't do; what they say and don't say. They want this deal to finance other business. They think the loss of Ché is a price worth paying to strengthen us overall.

 

[FriethBlade]

Do you really see it being a problem if we sign Clarke and have a team that's more capable of creating than last season? We already have Duffy who'll be a big improvement in that department, not to mention Fleck in the middle. In addition to that we'll have more striking options with McNulty not being out on loan, Done being used correctly and DCL emerging.

If we sell Adams I think it would take a monumental fuck up not to make ourselves considerably stronger should we re-invest, and I don't think Wilder's got that sort of fuck up in him.

Yes it is a problem, selling highly rated youngster players and replacing them with end of career, injury prone 30+ year olds is what's kept us in this division for 6 years