Jose Baxter....what a waste!

[The Crab]

A lot of players can't cope with the pressure of professional football. It's always been the case in the modern game; you get criticised by the press and, these days, social media, your own fans boo you at times, etc.
they used to cope with it by drinking; there were plenty of players who were gifted but shy and introverted who hid in the bottom of a glass, like Paul McGrath, for example.

I agree Bush. Nothing new is it? And it shows you that the Black Dog doesn't discriminate. It's a merciless fucker.

 

[TonyAgana]

Do you know what Tony? I think deep down he might know he has. I can speak from some experience, although I have no idea what his story might be. But when things are difficult to handle, one looks for a crutch. Not for a minute am I defending his actions. He has been stupid and is pissing away a fantastic career, especially when, if he does need help, it is readily available.

Or alternatively, maybe he just likes shoving shit up his nose and my theory is complete bollocks. Only he really knows. Shame really as there is a good footballer in there somewhere.

Maybe so, mate. I understand that people only have a limited amount of sympathy for him and it's a subject that can rile up plenty of bad feelings, but they're just kids. A lot of the time they're away from their families, surrounded by hangers-on, got time and money to burn. The photos of Gazza bring it home. Sometimes they never grow up. My mate lives in a flat vacated by a recent Blades player and the stuff he still gets through the post a year later is frightening. Personal information, parking fines, speeding fines, final notices, all sorts. I don't know but maybe the constantly changing structure of the club over the last few years hasn't helped. Nobody's fault, per se, just circumstances.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I also wont forget that he was the first player to score for us at Wembley in an age.

.

Since Alan Cork I believe?


Cork and Baxter = Chalk and Cheese

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Maybe so, mate. I understand that people only have a limited amount of sympathy for him and it's a subject that can rile up plenty of bad feelings, but they're just kids. A lot of the time they're away from their families, surrounded by hangers-on, got time and money to burn. The photos of Gazza bring it home. Sometimes they never grow up. My mate lives in a flat vacated by a recent Blades player and the stuff he still gets through the post a year later is frightening. Personal information, parking fines, speeding fines, final notices, all sorts. I don't know but maybe the constantly changing structure of the club over the last few years hasn't helped. Nobody's fault, per se, just circumstances.

I disagree with the “nobody’s fault”. I think it’s Jose Baxter’s fault. There's the argument that people are the product of their environment but we have the opportunity to overcome our upbringing if we have the fortitude to do it. He might not have deliberately conspired to develop a drug habit and flush his career down the toilet but he is around 24 years old now and needs to take some responsibility for his own actions.


Presenting him as a victim here papers over the cracks of his own behaviours and life choices.


Regardless of contributory factors, he is ultimately responsible for his own actions.

 

[TonyAgana]

I disagree with the “nobody’s fault”. I think it’s Jose Baxter’s fault. There's the argument that people are the product of their environment but we have the opportunity to overcome our upbringing if we have the fortitude to do it. He might not have deliberately conspired to develop a drug habit and flush his career down the toilet but he is around 24 years old now and needs to take some responsibility for his own actions.


Presenting him as a victim here papers over the cracks of his own behaviours and life choices.


Regardless of contributory factors, he is ultimately responsible for his own actions.

The "nobody's fault" comment I made was referring to the uncertain circumstances at the club. If he's the kind of lad that needs constants in his life, for example. It sounds like I'm making excuses for him and I'm really not, I'm just trying to make the point that there's almost inevitably more to it than him just being a fat, privileged wanker.

 

[BushBlade]

I disagree with the “nobody’s fault”. I think it’s Jose Baxter’s fault. There's the argument that people are the product of their environment but we have the opportunity to overcome our upbringing if we have the fortitude to do it. He might not have deliberately conspired to develop a drug habit and flush his career down the toilet but he is around 24 years old now and needs to take some responsibility for his own actions.


Presenting him as a victim here papers over the cracks of his own behaviours and life choices.


Regardless of contributory factors, he is ultimately responsible for his own actions.

'We have the opportunity to overcome our upbringing if we have the fortitude to do so' sounds too much like the Victorian idea that the poor choose to be poor and thus shouldn't be helped.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

'We have the opportunity to overcome our upbringing if we have the fortitude to do so' sounds too much like the Victorian idea that the poor choose to be poor and thus shouldn't be helped.

Perhaps I didn't word it correctly. There is quite a bit of help for the poor in this country (free education up to a certain point- benefits so people don't starve, the NHS etc.) I think it's something we're good at as a country but I feel that's a bit of a tangent as Baxter is certainly not poor. I was just making the point that people can only blame their environment for so long before taking some personal responsibility for their behaviour. At 24, Baxter needs to stand up and be counted as a man.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

The "nobody's fault" comment I made was referring to the uncertain circumstances at the club. If he's the kind of lad that needs constants in his life, for example. It sounds like I'm making excuses for him and I'm really not, I'm just trying to make the point that there's almost inevitably more to it than him just being a fat, privileged wanker.

Ah OK take your point mate. I would say the uncertain circumstances of the club is the board's fault (hiring and firing policy) but that in itself does not excuse Jose's behaviour. I agree that calling him a fat, privileged wanker is oversimplifying but his behaviour suggest he is some combination of weak willed, immature, irresponsible and generally lacking the self-discipline, drive and ambition to make the most of his talents.

 

[Dkc]

None of us on here know Jose, so we don't know if he suffers from depression, has a serious drug problem, or is a lazy fucker who'd rather do some MDMA and go out partying than give 100 percent for the Blades. It it's the former, I have a lot of sympathy. If it's the latter, good luck to him but he's got no future in the game.

 

[Russ]

Since Alan Cork I believe?


Cork and Baxter = Chalk and Cheese

Cheese and Chalk (apparently)

 

[BushBlade]

Perhaps I didn't word it correctly. There is quite a bit of help for the poor in this country (free education up to a certain point- benefits so people don't starve, the NHS etc.) I think it's something we're good at as a country but I feel that's a bit of a tangent as Baxter is certainly not poor. I was just making the point that people can only blame their environment for so long before taking some personal responsibility for their behaviour. At 24, Baxter needs to stand up and be counted as a man.

What DKC said above.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

What DKC said above.

Agreed, such circumstances would warrant some sympathy. That doesn't completely absolve Jose of responsibility either though.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Wow.

Are we really still discussing Tubby McSmackhead?

 

[larkymasher]

Wow.

Are we really still discussing Tubby McSmackhead?

Could not agree more. it is becoming painful

 

[BushBlade]

Agreed, such circumstances would warrant some sympathy. That doesn't completely absolve Jose of responsibility either though.

So it's fault if he has clinical depression?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bothered that he's gone and I don't want him back but I don't agree with pointing fingers at people when you don't know the full story.

What is true though, is that he will suffer the consequences of his actions, whatever the motivating factors behind them.

 

[BushBlade]

Could not agree more. it is becoming painful

Don't open the fucking thread then. It's clear what it's about. If me and DW1 want to discuss it, that's our fucking business.

 

[larkymasher]

Don't open the fucking thread then. It's clear what it's about. If me and DW1 want to discuss it, that's our fucking business.

If me and Tyler want to discuss the whys and wherefores of why we think a thread is shite then thats our business. You carry on. I couldn't give a shit.

And there i was thinking this is a forum for peoples opinions.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

So it's fault if he has clinical depression?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bothered that he's gone and I don't want him back but I don't agree with pointing fingers at people when you don't know the full story.

What is true though, is that he will suffer the consequences of his actions, whatever the motivating factors behind them.

OK, not the depression angle but if he has simply developed a problem by overindulging in recreational drugs then I would say it is his fault.

The overall picture we get of him is a poor one. Marijuana and counter-feit money as a teenager. 2 drug offences in the space of a year. Looking generally disinterested and overweight and attacking people (allegedly glassing) on an xmas party.

Overall it seems to combine to suggest a human being more in need of a long hard look in the mirror than our sympathy.

 

[BushBlade]

OK, not the depression angle but if he has simply developed a problem by overindulging in recreational drugs then I would say it is his fault.

The overall picture we get of him is a poor one. Marijuana and counter-feit money as a teenager. 2 drug offences in the space of a year. Looking generally disinterested and overweight and attacking people (allegedly glassing) on an xmas party.

Overall it seems to combine to suggest a human being more in need of a long hard look in the mirror than our sympathy.

Since when has looking generally uninterested and overweight been a crime? If it is you can lock up me and half the kop during last season.

 

[Antonb]

He came to our awards night with Murphy a couple of years ago, and brought a bodyguard with him! Maybe to make sure he behaved!

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Since when has looking generally uninterested and overweight been a crime? If it is you can lock up me and half the kop during last season.

Not a crime at all. Just paints a picture of an individual lacking a sense of personal responsibility, drive and dedication. Comes across as someone with no appreciation for his position or those paying their hard earned to fund his habits.

 

[Chali 2na]

So it's fault if he has clinical depression?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bothered that he's gone and I don't want him back but I don't agree with pointing fingers at people when you don't know the full story.

What is true though, is that he will suffer the consequences of his actions, whatever the motivating factors behind them.

OK, not the depression angle but if he has simply developed a problem by overindulging in recreational drugs then I would say it is his fault.

The overall picture we get of him is a poor one. Marijuana and counter-feit money as a teenager. 2 drug offences in the space of a year. Looking generally disinterested and overweight and attacking people (allegedly glassing) on an xmas party.

Overall it seems to combine to suggest a human being more in need of a long hard look in the mirror than our sympathy.

With addicts (and I'm speaking from experience), if you want them to recover, then you can't blame them for past indiscretions if they're making a concious effort to change.
However, the addict himself should be critical and introspective. They should understand that they made the decisions that got them where they are, and be eager and willing to change and make amends with those they have hurt.

Essentially what I'm saying in response to your argument is that (assuming Baxter wants to change) Baxter himself should be aware of his problem, and not blame it on clinical depression, a poor upbringing etc. To recover from his habit(s) he needs the personal responsibility that 1DW describes, as otherwise he's doomed to be an addict for the remainder of his life.

 

[sitwell]

He came to our awards night with Murphy a couple of years ago, and brought his dealer with him! Maybe to make sure he behaved!