Thanks Chris Wilder.

[Sirius]

I was in favour of giving Adkins more time but this Hammond fiasco has obviously changed my mind.

I would guess that it also made Mr McCabes mind up as well as costing Brannigan his job, on the basis that he was responsible for contract negotiation and the board probably wouldn't know the full details of their would have been no need to have employed him in the first place.

Brannigan must have had serious persuasion from Adkins who wanted to bring Hammond in at any price and that's probably why the new chief executive is from outside football to keep a proper business eye on proceedings rather than allow widespread dodgy football related practices to prevail.

 

[PeteBlade]

Is it too far fetched to think that, on the one hand, we were admittedly lumbered with stacks of players on overinflated contracts but, on the other, Adkins wasn't nearly proactive enough in seeking to get more permanently off the books than a few scraggy youths, Craig Alcock and the prized Jamie Murphy?

This isn't backed up when you look at the amount of players he released or loaned out.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

This isn't backed up when you look at the amount of players he released or loaned out.

I accept he eventually loaned out a few (& even more eventually his patience snapped regards Neill Collins's "clean slate"), but I'm on about shifting players out permanently.

Fully realising he had a difficult situation on his hands, I still believe he could have done far better & been much more proactive and leaderly in his approach.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Another cut and paste job.
If only you understood what 'free transfer' meant.

Well by the same logic Adkins got rid of:


Ian Turner- Free Transfer

Kyle Scarisbrick- Free Transfer

Ben Davies- Free Transfer

Michael Doyle- Free Transfer

Steven Davies- Loan Ended

Jason Holt- Loan Ended

Jason Paling- Free Transfer

Sam Berry- Free Transfer

Craig Alcock- Undisclosed

Michael Higdon- Free Transfer

Connor Dimaio- Free Transfer

Ottis Khan- Free Transfer

Dominic Calvert Lewin- Loan

Terry Kennedy- Loan

Marc McNulty- Loan

James Wallace- Loan

Stefan Scougall- Loan

Jamal Campbell Ryce- Loan

Bob Harris- Loan

KIeron Freeman- Loan

Neil Collins- Free Transfer

 

[1danewhitehouse]

So your under the impression no footballer has ever in the history of football moved on and took a pay cut


really
thats your premise

fuck me and you call me dumb
ring up the pro footballers association and ask if any of their members have ever moved on for less pay

give them an hour to stop laughing

ring up Beattie and ask him how much more money he was on at Accrington to what we payed him

Oh my god, how can you be so utterly fucking stupid?!


Nowhere, did anyone ever say that no footballer has ever moved and taken a pay cut. Brayford took one to play for us for a start. But it is also incredibly, slap you in the face obvious that generally speaking, a footballer would prefer to not take a pay cut than to take one meaning that you’re probably not going to be able to persuade all 35 unwanted players to leave to be on less money. A few might do it (Alcock for example might have) but most wont.


And your Beattie example is just further evidence your absolutely never-ending levels of stupidity. He didn’t have a contract with us when he joined Accrington. If your contract expires and you can’t negotiate one at the same level, then of course you have to take a pay cut. Even a deaf, blind monkey could figure that out. The point was that no players’ contracts expired under Adkins’ tenure.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I haven't said it's impossible. I haven't said it can't be done. I haven't said others can't and haven't done it.

My point is that it's not simple. You make out that it's easy to get rid.

My point is that it's not simple.
It isn't simple.

To get rid of these players is not simple.

This is the last time I'll attempt to explain this to you.

you saying we cant sell them is wrong

 

[PeteBlade]

I accept he eventually loaned out a few (& even more eventually his patience snapped regards Neill Collins's "clean slate"), but I'm on about shifting players out permanently.

Fully realising he had a difficult situation on his hands, I still believe he could have done far better & been much more proactive and leaderly in his approach.

When you say pro active what do you actually mean?

It seems like you're using a few buzzwords that don't really mean a lot.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Is it too far fetched to think that, on the one hand, we were admittedly lumbered with stacks of players on overinflated contracts but, on the other, Adkins wasn't nearly proactive enough in seeking to get more off the books permanently than a few scraggy youths, Craig Alcock and the prized Jamie Murphy?

I don't think it's too far fetched to think it. I do however think there is a lack of evidence to state it categorically as fact which plenty do when looking for a stick to beat Adkins with.

There are a number of factors that would have led to the clean slate beyond Adkins was too stupid to see they weren't good enough etc. I'll just list a few.



1. They were all contracted so it was never going to be as easy as not renewing their contract as has been the case for Wilder.
2. Getting them playing in pre-season, bigging them up publicly etc. was likely to improve their marketability.
3. He was a new manager trying to win over the last manager's squad. Telling them they were all surplus wouldn't go down well and he couldn't replace them all until he got rid as the wage bill was already through the roof.
4. Some players had showed promise at times or the jury was still out (McNulty, Freeman, Scougall, Baxter etc.). After another season, we've further evidence that they are not fit for our purposes.
5. Many were injured when they reported for pre-season meaning that NA couldn't wield the axe straight away due to a shortage of fit players in certain positions.

 

[blade too long]

Oh my god, how can you be so utterly fucking stupid?!


Nowhere, did anyone ever say that no footballer has ever moved and taken a pay cut. Brayford took one to play for us for a start. But it is also incredibly, slap you in the face obvious that generally speaking, a footballer would prefer to not take a pay cut than to take one meaning that you’re probably not going to be able to persuade all 35 unwanted players to leave to be on less money. A few might do it (Alcock for example might have) but most wont.
.

well where did we say we were selling all 35
I said why didnt we sell half as many as wednesday did they sold 16
surely we could have unloaded 8 is what I put , less than a quarter of what you insist I was saying

fucking stupid twats are those who can read what I put and put something else

I never once said sell them all, but ADKINS SHIFTED NO ONE

 

[blade too long]

1 July 2015 CM Paul Corry Northampton Town [c] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CB Rafael Floro Belenenses [d] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CB Dejan Kelhar Olimpija Ljubljana [e] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 CF Gary Madine Bolton Wanderers [f] Free transfer [20]
1 July 2015 AM Jacques Maghoma Birmingham City [g] Free transfer [20]

its was lazy and unforgiveable that Adkins came to the Lane and failed miserably to get rid of at least half as big a pile of shit as this is 7 or 8

this is what I put
I never ever ever said sell 35

 

[1danewhitehouse]

well where did we say we were selling all 35
I said why didnt we sell half as many as wednesday did they sold 16
surely we could have unloaded 8 is what I put , less than a quarter of what you insist I was saying

fucking stupid twats are those who can read what I put and put something else

I never once said sell them all, but ADKINS SHIFTED NO ONE

Sigh.

Look at what you've pasted and you'll see the pigs sold 2, not 16. The rest left on expiry of their contracts and that was decided before Carvalhal even arrived. They moved 2 players on that were under contract. Adkins moved on Alcock, Dimaio, Higdon, Khan and a load more on loan.

 

[blade too long]

players can be put up for sale , if they dont sell tough , but he failed to list any
is the real point
if you dont list them you will never sell them or give them away
bigger sigh

 

[1danewhitehouse]

players can be put up for sale , if they dont sell tough , but he failed to list any
is the real point
if you dont list them you will never sell them or give them away
bigger sigh

Not publicly naming them as listed doesn't mean we weren't trying to get them moves. If we hadn't been, we wouldn't have moved out nearly as many as we did.

 

[blade too long]

Well by the same logic Adkins got rid of:


Ian Turner- Free Transfer

Kyle Scarisbrick- Free Transfer

Ben Davies- Free Transfer

Michael Doyle- Free Transfer

Steven Davies- Loan Ended

Jason Holt- Loan Ended

Jason Paling- Free Transfer

Sam Berry- Free Transfer

Craig Alcock- Undisclosed

Michael Higdon- Free Transfer

Connor Dimaio- Free Transfer

Ottis Khan- Free Transfer

Dominic Calvert Lewin- Loan


I can add wednesdays list of loaned out players


Neil Collins- Free Transfer

I can add wednesdays list of loaned out players , thats those officially moved on that belonged to the club

 

[blade too long]

Not publicly naming them as listed doesn't mean we weren't trying to get them moves. If we hadn't been, we wouldn't have moved out nearly as many as we did.

well how come Chris came in released a bundle and listed a load within hours

why the constant apologist stance towards Adkins who was indecisive

I dare say we will see others listed too in time ,

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I can add wednesdays list of loaned out players , thats those officially moved on that belonged to the club

My point was that you included 14 out of contract players released before the manager was even appointed as well as 2 they moved on that were under contract. My list includes Clough's retained list as their contracts didn't technically expire til Adkins was here.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

well how come Chris came in released a bundle and listed a load within hours

why the constant apologist stance towards Adkins who was indecisive

I dare say we will see others listed too in time ,

BECAUSE THEY WERE OUT OF CONTRACT!!

As for those listed, because he chose too. He doesn't have to worry too much about alienating the whole squad because the numbers are such now that he can bring his own team in.

 

[blade too long]

BECAUSE THEY WERE OUT OF CONTRACT!!

As for those listed, because he chose too. He doesn't have to worry too much about alienating the whole squad because the numbers are such now that he can bring his own team in.

yes some were out of contact

but
whats that bollocks about he can list those as wont alienate anyone crap
surely Adkins had the same opportunity , to list who he wanted to, he was given the same carte blanche approach

he could easily have added another 8 last july
Im pretty certain McCabe wont have said dont sell too many we dont want to cut the wage bill too much

 

[1danewhitehouse]

You really should have done more dot-to-dots when you were a kid. It's extremely tiresome having to join the dots for you on every thread.


Adkins inherits squad of say 40, transfer lists 25 of them. Say we manage to sell 5 or 6 of those 25, he's stuck with 19-20 in the squad who know they're not wanted and will be utterly pissed off. Because he still has a squad of 34/35 he can't bring many in and has to play the pissed off players that were probably not even good enough before they were pissed off and will now probably be even worse.


Wilder inherits squad of around 32, 10 of which are out of contract. He released 10 and transfer lists another 7. If he manages to shift say 2-3 of the 7 he'll have only 4-5 pissed off players who know they are not wanted. Meanwhile his squad numbers are down to around 19 leaving room to bring in quite a few meaning the pissed off players are in a very small minority and he shouldn't need to play them.

Is it really that hard to make these connections for yourself?

 

[sheffielder]

Was this thread about thanking Chris Wilder or did I enter a parrallel universe?

 

[BushBlade]

Was this thread about thanking Chris Wilder or did I enter a parrallel universe?

Dunno. All threads seem to be the same; they start off as a thread about something, then someone says 'I'd keep..... but get rid of .....' Then someone else says 'he's a fucking wage thief, I'd get rid but I'd keep...' After that you get loads of suggestions about who we should sign until someone mentions Adkins or Clough and you get the same arguments about both until it just descends into a tedious wank-fest of nonsense as DW1/Pete/BTL/Barney/Sean Thornton/WWF try to score points off one another.

Personally, I'm fucking sick of it.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

I don't think it's too far fetched to think it. I do however think there is a lack of evidence to state it categorically as fact which plenty do when looking for a stick to beat Adkins with.

There are a number of factors that would have led to the clean slate beyond Adkins was too stupid to see they weren't good enough etc. I'll just list a few.



1. They were all contracted so it was never going to be as easy as not renewing their contract as has been the case for Wilder.
2. Getting them playing in pre-season, bigging them up publicly etc. was likely to improve their marketability.
3. He was a new manager trying to win over the last manager's squad. Telling them they were all surplus wouldn't go down well and he couldn't replace them all until he got rid as the wage bill was already through the roof.
4. Some players had showed promise at times or the jury was still out (McNulty, Freeman, Scougall, Baxter etc.). After another season, we've further evidence that they are not fit for our purposes.
5. Many were injured when they reported for pre-season meaning that NA couldn't wield the axe straight away due to a shortage of fit players in certain positions.

All fair points. And all understandable ones if you're seeking to justify Adkins's actions (which again is entirely reasonable).

True, the situation's a more favourable now one for Wilder to make a clear out. But, even so, Wilder has transfer listed a tranche of players &, in doing so, set down a significant marker. In hindsight, Adkins should have done the very same.

As you suggest in your second sentence, all of our opinions are necessarily subjective on the whole & dependent on how much sympathy we're willing to offer Adkins. My own subjective view is that he was far too soft, unwilling to ruffle feathers, & expecting people (players, fans, whoever) to just come on board with his "positivity revolution" rather than making it happen by taking tough decisions.

Admittedly, there's no evidence as such for these views. And they come out of a jaundiced perspective (brought about experience of just how abysmal Adkins' sides were over the course of a season). But they do at least seem to offer some possible semi-logical explanation of the drift experienced under Adkins, rather than merely excusing him for being so bad or suggesting he wasn't really that bad because of the supposedly impossible circumstances he faced.

Anyway, though willing to bang on & on about Adkins & his failings, I'm far more intrigued by how Wilder's own revolution is likely to pan out. Like you, & pretty much everyone else, I'm delighted with the first steps Chris has taken.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Dunno. All threads seem to be the same; they start off as a thread about something, then someone says 'I'd keep..... but get rid of .....' Then someone else says 'he's a fucking wage thief, I'd get rid but I'd keep...' After that you get loads of suggestions about who we should sign until someone mentions Adkins or Clough and you get the same arguments about both until it just descends into a tedious wank-fest of nonsense as DW1/Pete/BTL/Barney/Sean Thornton/WWF try to score points off one another.

Personally, I'm fucking sick of it.

Oh dear.

I've made two posts on this thread, a one liner about it being pointless to go on about getting rid of players and the second one pointing out the position of a player under contract. Neither replying specifically to any poster nor mentionng one.

But don't let that stop you harrumphing with fake indignation like some Daily Mail reader.

 

[BushBlade]

Oh dear.

I've made two posts on this thread, a one liner about it being pointless to go on about getting rid of players and the second one pointing out the position of a player under contract. Neither replying specifically to any poster nor mentionng one.

But don't let that stop you harrumphing with fake indignation like some Daily Mail reader.

I wasn't talking about this thread in particular.

It's not fake indignation. It's a genuine dislike of having to trawl through the various spats on here, some of which you are part of, although I accept not all.