Your experiences of Police at football matches

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Linz

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A report has been released today which suggests that the Police were "untrained and inexperienced" while dealing with the G20 protests with a spokesperson for the Met Police stating this morning that such events are few and far between.

However, football matches take place over the country for 9 months of the year. So surely the Police should be well versed in dealing with football fans?

In my experience, this is simply not the case. I do want to write a balanced article for the new site about the Police so I want to hear your experiences of how football matches are policed beyond simply "I hate rozzers innit".

I am more than happy to say there is good and bad and understand it is a difficult job. But some of the unsavory scenes we saw on the news at the G20 protest were not too far away from ones we see at football matches, yet as football fans, we are less deserving of public outcry.

So what do you think?

EDIT: Forgot to mention, if any non-members are reading this and would like to comment, please email [email protected] with your views.
 

Hit the nail on the head with the last comment. What was seen at the G20, was nothing much different to what you might see at a 'high profile' game where trouble might be anticipated. If the policing of both is pretty much the same, yet there is outcry about one and general praise for the other; then there must be a difference in how the recipients of this policing are perceived:

Public perception of football supporters = nasty, little extreme hooligans

Public perception of G20 protestors = nice, little extreme hippies

Now of course, in the these days of football being 'right-on' for the middle classes (the chatterers of Notting Hill etc.) who are also touted as the leading protagonists in the 'global fight against capitalist excess' you would have expected some sort of reaction to being portrayed differently as a protestor to a football supporter. But, of course the chattering classes only ever attend the home fixture, only ever sit in the better seats, and are more likely to be having a pre-match meal of simply divine dijon-roasted rabbit followed by ginger creme-brulee, rather than a few beers at the pub followed by a pie in the ground. Consequently they never encountered any police at the ground. Given the targetting of policing at any football ground, it's perhaps not surprising that the two are never connected, there isn't a 'pretentious protestor' section at most demonstrations!
 
At the Reading game recently my cousin was stopped from going in for having a pack of cards and a Pen :D

Quite what the bloke thought the pen was i will never know but he pressed the end very slowly! Didnt like us laughing at him!
 
I have experienced the good and the bad of policing at football matches. Always without exception South Yorkshire Police at Barnsley home games are the worst I have ever experienced, verging on being bullies and thugs. In contrast the Police at Hull City when we played them over new year 3 seasons ago were friendly and up for a laugh.

Overall they sometimes have a very difficult job, one I wouldn't want to do, but there is an element amongst the police who abuse the privilaged position they are in. Overall I give them 7 out of 10 could do better.
 
Absolute and complete utter arseholes in my one set of dealings with them.

To cut a long story short, i got arrested under suspicion of being drunk in a designated sports ground at Newcastle in the Premiership, i had not done anything wrong apart from have a few beers, my behaviour was not disorderly and i was well behaved when i was approached by a Police Officer. I found myself getting heavily handed dragged down 20 flights of steps from the top tier to the bottom injuring my knee and giving me 2 lovely red bruises round my wrists. I was denied access to a phone call or a solicitor on the grounds of the desk sargaent adjudging me to be too drunk to make contact. I was kept in a cell until 1am without food and drink, before getting released when it was a safe bet i would not be able to get overnight accomodation or make my back to Sheffield that night. I was also charged with the offence, made subject to an interim banning order, and i had to travel back up to Newcastle twice before it was thrown out of court.

I offered to leave the ground volunteerily when i was approached by the Police Officer, and i was polite at all times, but the Police Officer at the time was judge and jury and they caused me no end of hassle for quite a while for something that i did not even know was a criminal offence until that night.

My advice is when going to an away game is not to have too much to drink beforehand, and never allow yourselves to become separated from your group as you will make yourself an easier target. I thought the Police attended football games to prevent fighting between sets of rival fans, but i now think it is an easy way for them to get criminal convictions.
 
Worst ones i have come across were at Leicester. We went down on the train and everyone got searched, which was fair enough. But they didn't half cause trouble with some people. After the game they were also heavy handed when trying to sort an escort back to the train station. Me and my mates were walking out and heading back towards the station when we were dragged and shoved in an escort, we said we were going to meet our dad at the car (obviously a lie, but they didn't know that). Anyway, we eventually just walked out of the escort as it was taking too long to sort out and we were going to miss the train.
 
I'm a bit rowdy at football matches, but I've only ever really got close to trouble with the police on a couple of occassions because I know that as a football fan they'll arrest you for breathing on them.

I think the trouble is, they mark all football fans with the same brush. "He's going to an away match, therefore he is a hooligan." It's ridiculous, alot of us go to have a laugh, a few pints and watch a game of football, but they treat us like a bunch of bloody animals.

There's all this respect business in the game, to the refs, the players, the police etc. Where's the respect to the paying fans?
 
I remember Barsnley Away this season walking back to the train station, and i heard a man crying/angry that a horse had trampled his son and was in need of medical attention and the police didn't give a F*** and pushed the man away.

I feel they really don't care as long as they get there job done which is to get people back on the train.

I also remember Blackburn away, a couple seasons back where we was told when inside the stadium that we wasn't aloud to stand up whilst the game was being played, sure enough came the chants of "Stand up if you hate the police"

This is obviously going to sound biased but a number of times outside our own train station whilst making the walk from the interchange to Maccy D's that police have often stopped us, and just had a chat about footballing matters, now a thought does come across that they was trying to talk to us to gain clues, I.E. Are we drunk, underage, looking to cause trouble etc...

Just come to thought about Burnley away in recent times, as for some strange reason theres hardly any police around the ground and when we did see any it was to stop us going into the town center.

Me and a mate got told to leave or face consequences at the lane this year for having a foghorn, that was sold to us near the gates, was perfetic.
 
While agreeing with the comments so far about some police being heavy handed, there have been a few lighter times. After an away game at Man City the official coach we were on had a problem with the door not closing properly, which meant it wouldn't let the driver change out of first gear. Some police climbed aboard and gave us a hilarious commentary as they guided the driver through Moss Side to a coach depot where we changed to another bus. "There was a murder over there last week, and a double stabbing down there on Thursday..." etc etc.

Another away game, a cup match I think, at Shrewsbury. Coaches got there well early, and on approaching the turnstiles a policeman chatted to me and the wife for a minute then asked if we'd like tickets. Sure enough he gave us 2 free tickets, and we had a longer chat with him inside the ground later on. Still can't believe he actually gave us tickets to get in...

One bad police experience that sticks in my mind was an away game at Oldham when after the match the police wouldn't even let the Blades fans use the toilets on the way out. Just forced everyone out of the ground and into the car/coach park. Seemed really stupid and heavy handed at the time, and I was well pissed off.
 
At the Reading game recently my cousin was stopped from going in for having a pack of cards and a Pen :D

Quite what the bloke thought the pen was i will never know but he pressed the end very slowly! Didnt like us laughing at him!

This reminds me of various stories like that which Danny Baker used to broadcast on '6-0-6' in the days when it was worth listening to.

Here's one clip. The quality of the mpeg isn't great as it sounds like it has been taken directly from the MW broadcast, but still makes me giggle. I remember a couple of others who called in and said they were refused entry because ..... he had a new pair of shoes in a box, and my favourite one ..... surely made up, but I hope not ..... a breast pump was removed from a lady at Bristol Rovers.

I'll start on the serious stuff in a bit.
 
My dealings have almost always been cordial, but there are some occasions where the blanket "whack 'em" approach has been used, and far too liberally.

There do seem to be regional variations in how football is policed as well, and in my experience, the worst of the lot (as described by Brownie) are the police in the North East.

I remember going to St James's Park in the 93-4 relegation season to see us get humped 4-0 on a cold midweek night, and at the time, there were very few away tickets available, a few hundred at most. By half-time, I reckon a good third of our support had been thrown out for the heinous crimes of standing up, yelling a bit, and breathing out of turn. Similar has happened at Sunderland and Middlesbrough too.

When I eventually finish the Huddersfield saga and post it on here, there's a part in there about the police, the top and tail of which is briefly described as follows. We got to Huddersfield train station at about 12.30-1.00, and before we'd got off the platform, we were met by police. As we got out of the station, we were met by riot police, with armoured horses, vans, and the blues-and-twos about to start. The full job lot. Anyone would have thought we were about to bomb the place (which in fact, is quite an attractive thought).

The bizarre bit though, was what they told us, which was that they were going to take us to a 'safe' pub. Whether we wanted to go to a pub or not was seemingly immaterial. True enough though, they took us to a pub. There were three, all by a crossroads about half a mile from the ground, all jammed with blue and white. When we turned round, before we'd actually got in there, the police had all naffed off completely!

Apparently, we were taken there "for our own safety". Now firstly, who the hell did they think we were, and secondly, if it were to be for our own safety, you'd have thought that there would have been a couple of them left outside smoking a fag or having a cuppa, just in case the hundred or so of us they frogmarched down the road had got into/caused any hassle.

Bolton a few years ago was another example of complete ineptitude. A blindingly hot day for the last match of the season, and an egg-and-spoon match really. Bolton were guaranteed the play-offs, we couldn't reach them. Tonge made his first senior start that day. They equalised in 265th minute, but it wasn't a huge deal.

The players and St Neil came up to the away end to show their appreciation, as as St Neil started to walk back, one Blade broke the stewards cordon, and went up to hug St Neil, who walked him back pretty quickly, and you could see by the body language that there was no trouble. Nobody else had gone on to the pitch.

The fan handed himself over to the police, and St Neil turned away. At this point, three coppers get the bloke in a headlock, and violently manhandle him away. This caused a certain amount of consternation in the away end, which made St Neil turn round. He then took off his 'Warnock 7' shirt, and gave it to the bloke, who may or may not have had a hand free to accept it.

Now I'm not saying that the fan shouldn't have been arrested, or detained, but the level of force used was far disproportional to that which was needed. Had this been a match which meant something (automatic promotion/reaching the play-offs, etc), that could have been extremely provocative. It's the (perceived, at least) use of disproportional force which concerns me as a fan, and a law abiding one at that.

Last season walking back from Hellsbore four of us (including a then fourteen year old sufclucy) got caught up as the police were 'hastening' some United fans down Infirmary Road. They may well have been ne'er-do-wells, but was it really necessary to use batons to keep them on the pavement as the horses moved alongside? More to the point, when three of them shouted "There's a fuckin' babby here!" (meaning sufclucy), was it really necessary to continue to use the batons, to shout "Do I fuckin' care?", and cause the potential ne'er-do-wells to fall into my daughter?

To be honest, it's certainly a job I'd rather not do, and of course I understand that there are set procedures, etc, but there are marked inconsistencies round the country, as I noted at the start of this.

To add, perhaps one aspect of policing is, well, non-policing. A few years ago we absolutely stole three points off the Baggies when Asaba got on the end of a brilliant Peschisolido run in about the 176th minute, after we'd been utterly pounded. Santos cleared off the line just before Peschi started his run, as I recall. Coming away from the ground to get the official coach was fun (I hate them, but it was the only way to get down there and back that day - that said,and we went via the Britannia Stadium for some bizarre reason).

They were parked up some way from the ground, down an absolutely dingy, dimly lit backwhack, with no police prescence at all. The baddies could have had an absolute field day down there, and there were a few worried looks among the kids who were there.

There are many other incidents (being laughed at in Plymouth by police as we were chased through a park springs to mind - I was about 10 at the time. Nice.), but I suppose what really rankles is the assumption, often by appearances, that we're a set of drunken morons intent on causing mayhem. I've worked with some quite high ranking Civil Servants who at face value on a Saturday afternoon, one might think they were signing on themselves, and not formulating policy, which was what they did in fact do. At the same time, a quite respectable mate, and ranking policeman, has links to the Leeds Service Crew.
 
My advice is when going to an away game is not to have too much to drink beforehand,.

The day i have to watch United sober, is the day i stop watching football. With some of the dross we serve up, you need to be merry.:)

Am sure like most Blades the social side of a match day is 80% of the match day expierence. As A blade of over 40 years, i accept there are good and bad cops. Swansea police last year were great. Arsenal too, Over the years West Ham,Man U, and Norwich were scum.
The best police? Raith Rovers pre season few years ago, we arrived in town at 10am for an evening game!! There was nothing to do but drink :) the police were very understanding. :)
 
Cheers guys... it's sad to say it, but I did kind of expect these kinds of responses.

Will polish my article off and get it posted for your further comment.
 
That's Kirkcaldy for you, tat!

What a hell hole:) we thought we would spend the day there, sight seeing!! we were in the pub 10.30am. we had been on the tour including East Fife and fitted in Livingston v Newcastle.

One of the greatest feats of endurance i have ever seen, our driver stayed sober all day, and had to drive back to Sheffield with us after the evening match. Wayne we salute you.

As for Kirkcaldy avoid it :) its the butt of many Billy Connelly jokes for a reason. No one likes Kirkcaldy.


Back on topic, the SYP have a serious bad reputation, any one who saw the over reaction to the Swansea fans at the lane, would agree.
 

On balance, it's difficult to be balanced in the weight of such idiocy :)

A report by MPs into the conduct of the Police during the G20 summit in April has found that Police were "untrained and inexperienced" in dealing with the protesters with "a lack of similar situations" cited by the Metropolitan Police as an excuse for some pretty brutal treatment being dished out by the boys in blue. So, with football matches taking place for nine months of every year, surely the Police around the country should be well versed at handling football crowds?

In my experience, this is simply not the case. So why isn't there the same outcry from football fans every week when they are herded up and frogmarched through towns and cities up and down the country? Are we guilty of misdemeanors by pure virtue of being football fans, with no chance to plead our innocence?

Now don't for one minute think I am trying to defend those who have watched Green Street or Football Factory and believe that sort of behaviour is something to emulate. The undisputed fact is this: a minority of the thousands who make their pilgrimage every week, are morons. There's no getting away from it. Their idea of fun is to get absolutely shit-faced, threaten someone... anyone with violence (opposition fans, their own fans, stewards and the Police) and when they're really having a good day, get hauled out of the ground before half time. They have spent a small fortune on not watching very much football and pissing quite a lot of people off. They are a waste of oxygen and organs and deserve everything they get.

I also don't deny that some coppers, are also of the decent sort. They retain a sense of humour while dealing with the kinds of imbeciles as described above while being courteous and most importantly of all, sensible with everyone else. They are more than happy to direct slightly lost and occasionally bewildered travelling fans to the nearest safe pub and take a somewhat more gentle approach to individuals who are engaged in cheeky mischief instead of illegality ("Are you denying you have a helmet and that it is in your hand, officer?"). I have heard from coppers themselves that the boys and girls in uniform are not given the autonomy to deal with situations as they see fit, but for the sake of their jobs and the targets they are expected to meet, are forced to follow procedures laid down by those with plush desks and air conditioned offices who haven't got a bloody clue.

But for every decent copper, we have all seen their fellow officers in a more distressing and ugly light. All too often, we witness Police on power trips employing the "what I say, goes" law, their uniform acting as a shield which protects them from any reproach and a means to completely ignore any protestations of innocence. An example of this is the increasing use of s. 27 of the Violent Crime Reduction Act (2006) against football fans.

s.27 reads:

27 Directions to individuals who represent a risk of disorder
(1) If the test in subsection (2) is satisfied in the case of an individual aged 16 or over who is in a public place, a constable in uniform may give a direction to that individual—

(a) requiring him to leave the locality of that place; and
(b) prohibiting the individual from returning to that locality for such period (not exceeding 48 hours) from the giving of the direction as the constable may specify.

(2) That test is—

(a) that the presence of the individual in that locality is likely, in all the circumstances, to cause or to contribute to the occurrence of alcohol- related crime or disorder in that locality, or to cause or to contribute to a repetition or continuance there of such crime or disorder; and
(b) that the giving of a direction under this section to that individual is necessary for the purpose of removing or reducing the likelihood of there being such crime or disorder in that locality during the period for which the direction has effect or of there being a repetition or continuance in that locality during that period of such crime or disorder.

What that means in layman's terms is that a Police Constable only needs to suspect you of possibly being inebriated and potentially causing trouble at some undetermined point in the future to pack you up and move you on. You might not be pissed. You might be perfectly law-abiding and not intending to change that within the next couple of hours. You might also have paid £50 for a match ticket plus an untold amount actually getting to the game. But one Policeman or woman only has to take a disliking to you for you to find yourself locked on a coach back to where they think you came from with absolutely nothing you say or do at the time capable of changing that.

Understandably, this unjust imprisonment has upset quite a few people. The Football Supporters Federation, in conjunction with the civil rights group Liberty, have launched the Watching football is not a crime! campaign to challenge the use of s.27 against football fans and with some success. During last month, Stoke fan Lyndon Edwards received £2750 in compensation after the use of s.27 was taken to judicial review and deemed to be unlawful in the circumstances in which it was used against him.

Lyndon was one of eighty Stoke fans who travelled to their side's game at Old Trafford. They were having a drink at a nearby pub when they found themselves rounded up, given s.27 orders, forced on to a coach and driven back to Stoke while the landlord expressed surprise at their treatment, saying they were no trouble and that he would warmly welcome them back again. The press release from Liberty states: "Deprived of toilet facilities on the coach, the supporters were instructed to urinate into cups, which spilled over the floor of the bus so that they had to sit with urine sloshing around their feet for the 40-mile journey back." South Yorkshire Police, notorious amongst football fans for being the most strict in the country, are also in the process of negotiating compensation payments to Plymouth Argyle fans who were sent back from Doncaster. An unenviable journey which was escorted by the Police helicopter at massive expense to the taxpayer.

When we have laws which offer greater protection to livestock in transit, how long is it before football fans can be treated like the human beings we are? The Police believe that we can be herded like cattle on to trains, prevented from walking along public highways, rounded up and shipped off for someone else to deal with because they "say so". Human rights are important things. Where there has been a crime committed, legislation provides that human rights can be infringed upon. But where there has been no crime committed and no laws broken, what gives Police the power to be judge and jury and blindly trample over the civil liberties of football fans as a subsection of society? Isn't that called discrimination?

If you are a non-football fan reading this, you may have guffawed at the last rhetorical question and if so, you have proved my next point - that football fans receive little public sympathy.

Coming back to the G20 protests, the outcry over the scenes witnessed suggest that society deems it unacceptable to treat protesters in that fashion. Yet the lack of outcry over how Police treat football fans rather suggests that society believes it is acceptable in those situations. It must come down to how particular groups of people are stereotyped.

When people think of the G20 protesters, they think of slightly aging, crusty hippies who smell of patchouli oil and wouldn't hurt a fly. When many people think of football fans, they see young males in tracksuits with sovereign rings clutching cans of special brew. They forget that protesters can also be balaclava- wearing anarchists prepared to break the law to make a point. And they also forget that travelling football fans are also family groups, gangs of mates of both sexes and all ages coming together to have a bit of a laugh at no one's expense but their own.

It's 2009, not 1979. Organised football hooliganism doesn't exist in the mainstream any more. Tales of pitch battles are told by men who are now old enough to know better and fabricated by youngsters to make themselves look "hard". The Police have won the war against these groups of fans, yet their oppressive regime continues. The minority might have spoiled the way the majority are treated at football games, but until Police stop stoking the fire by forcing perfectly law abiding and reasonable people into situations they should not be made to face, the reputation of football fans is not going to be allowed to change. People, quite rightly, get rather upset at being pushed around for no reason and aggrieved at their perceived guilt of a crime they haven't committed and have no intention of committing. Riot Police, in full Storm Trooper uniforms with shields and batons are deployed as a matter of course, not if and when they are needed. We have video cameras pointed in our faces by Police officers looking for "trouble" inside grounds but indiscriminately film us all.

I have seen a fan dressed as Barney Rubble nearly strangled for doing a fancy dress conga at Aston Villa the other year. I've seen two coppers pushing and shoving a bloke at Everton while his girlfriend screamed at them to stop, just because he didn't sit down the second they told him to. I have had an argument with the Metropolitan Police who would not let me walk down the pavement back to my coach and gave no good reason for trying to stop me. I, and many others, have been detained in cages after the final whistle against my will while the home fans they claim to be trying to protect us from have chance to amass outside (yes Humberside Constabulary, I am looking at you.) I was an Ninian Park this year when fans were told to "piss against the wall" while Police were held us in the ground for nearly an hour after the game, in the name of our own safety and comfort.

The Police need reminding that they are there to protect us, the public, from people who are breaking the law.

They should not be there to break the law themselves in an attempt to antagonise us into doing something wrong so they can add us to another set of Government arrest targets.

Relevant links:

FSF - Watching football is not a crime!

The Guardian: A great victory for football fans

Home Office Football Arrest Statistics 2007/08 Season

Violent Crime Reduction Act (2006) [pdf]

Why have you done this?

For the new site, we're planning on having a "topic of the month" where we specifically ask for input from everyone else. If anyone who isn't a member of the forum wants to comment, they can email me at [email protected] and their comments will be published in our "letters" section of the new site :)
 
People have talked considerably about the police being heavy-handed but I think their main problem is not being in the right place at the right time....
A perfect example of this is when we played man city in the cup a couple of seasons back (shelton scored off a balloon), the police were nowhere to be seen when 50 odd man city fans decided to run up our tunnel at the end of the game to meet the blades fans on the way out of the ground. The man city fans decided to just hit out at anyone, young, old, men, women, children etc and the police wernt anywhere to be seen for 10 minutes or more even though this happened where the blades and man city fans meet.

This is just one example of when the police are poorly designated, but I have plenty more and im sure you all will. However unlike a lot of you I have never had to experience police brutality despite travelling to many an away game over 10-15 years...
 

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