Youngsters out on loan

[Balham Blade]

I'm sure the youth coaches know best, and I know each individual has different pathways, but I remember last summer a few of us on Shoutbox were going through the development player list, and we thought there'd be about half a dozen capable of getting league loans, and the same again for the Conference.

Looking back, how many have had league loans?
Boyes - FGR and Lincoln, a success
Amissah - As mentioned, not playing (but I'm sure the experience is good)
Seriki - Can't seem to get back the form from a year or two ago

Has anybody else gone to a League club? Obviously then there's been Dewhurst, Neal, and the Boreham Woods lads in the Conference (and more I've forgotten I'm sure), and countless to Conference North or lower.

So for all the thinking in terms of the players, arguably only one has gone to a League club and had a successful season out. Seems to be a reluctance to pitch the young lads in too high maybe?

The benefit of loaning younger players to the National League is that we can do it for shorter stints. Anyone loaned to a league side is there for a minimum half season and if it all goes wrong (cf Harry Boyes at Forest Green) they're stuck at what might be a critical time in their development. Amissah was an emergency loan to start with after Burton's first choice keeper was injured in a car crash. He had a shocker on debut, conceding 4 and at least one was his fault so it's not really surprising he'd not played again until yesterday.

We clearly have a plan which involves sending the 18/19 year olds into the National League and the 20/21 year olds into League One/League Two.

 

[billyblademan]

The benefit of loaning younger players to the National League is that we can do it for shorter stints. Anyone loaned to a league side is there for a minimum half season and if it all goes wrong (cf Harry Boyes at Forest Green) they're stuck at what might be a critical time in their development. Amissah was an emergency loan to start with after Burton's first choice keeper was injured in a car crash. He had a shocker on debut, conceding 4 and at least one was his fault so it's not really surprising he'd not played again until yesterday.

We clearly have a plan which involves sending the 18/19 year olds into the National League and the 20/21 year olds into League One/League Two.

Good point, I hadn't considered that. Not a bad strategy, and the lads who were in the Conference this year can hopefully get a league loan next season having had a bit of experience already.

 

[robbiez666]

I’m afraid that’s because they simply weren’t good enough to break into the side, and still aren’t good enough.

Not true though is it? Both would have played a significant amount of games this year.

I agree you simply can't keep every player who makes a career in football, but we let Slater go when we were short of midfielders after messing him around for the best part of 2 years. Whiteman as well didn't get a chance and had two successful loans before we let him go as well.

There are obviously other factors at play off the pitch with all players, but they're both clearly good enough to be squad players, at least.

 

[robbiez666]

The benefit of loaning younger players to the National League is that we can do it for shorter stints. Anyone loaned to a league side is there for a minimum half season and if it all goes wrong (cf Harry Boyes at Forest Green) they're stuck at what might be a critical time in their development. Amissah was an emergency loan to start with after Burton's first choice keeper was injured in a car crash. He had a shocker on debut, conceding 4 and at least one was his fault so it's not really surprising he'd not played again until yesterday.

We clearly have a plan which involves sending the 18/19 year olds into the National League and the 20/21 year olds into League One/League Two.

The Amissah loan was an odd one. I know why we loaned him but we knew he'd likely be back on the bench after the first game. I presume we thought he could do well and keep the number 1 spot. I would have thought he'd have been better off in L2 or non-league playing regularly. Just seems like he's lost 6 months of potential development time.

I can see the benefits of sending teenagers to non-league, both in the ability to recall if it doesn't work out and getting experience of men's football. I do worry that we don't manage contracts greatly well. We seem to get to situations where youngsters aren't good enough for first team football here, done well lower down and then their contract are up. Incredibly difficult to manage so everything falls at the right time.

 

[billyblademan]

The Amissah loan was an odd one. I know why we loaned him but we knew he'd likely be back on the bench after the first game. I presume we thought he could do well and keep the number 1 spot. I would have thought he'd have been better off in L2 or non-league playing regularly. Just seems like he's lost 6 months of potential development time.

I can see the benefits of sending teenagers to non-league, both in the ability to recall if it doesn't work out and getting experience of men's football. I do worry that we don't manage contracts greatly well. We seem to get to situations where youngsters aren't good enough for first team football here, done well lower down and then their contract are up. Incredibly difficult to manage so everything falls at the right time.

Maybe he wanted to go? Maybe we were keen to do a favour for a local-ish club that did well for Jebbo?

For contracts, Boyes was a good example. Signs new deal, trots off on loan. Perfect all round. I see the benefit in giving out only 2-3 year contracts for the youngsters (its in everyones interest for them to leave if they're not up to it), but it can leave things tight.

 

[Balham Blade]

The Amissah loan was an odd one. I know why we loaned him but we knew he'd likely be back on the bench after the first game. I presume we thought he could do well and keep the number 1 spot. I would have thought he'd have been better off in L2 or non-league playing regularly. Just seems like he's lost 6 months of potential development time.

I can see the benefits of sending teenagers to non-league, both in the ability to recall if it doesn't work out and getting experience of men's football. I do worry that we don't manage contracts greatly well. We seem to get to situations where youngsters aren't good enough for first team football here, done well lower down and then their contract are up. Incredibly difficult to manage so everything falls at the right time.

That first game was probably a sliding doors moment for Amissah. If he goes to Burton and has a decent debut there's a strong chance he keeps his place until the regular keeper is fully fit or possibly until the end of his loan spell. As it was, he had an absolute nightmare and they probably decided it was better to bring the first choice back sooner.

 

[robbiez666]

That first game was probably a sliding doors moment for Amissah. If he goes to Burton and has a decent debut there's a strong chance he keeps his place until the regular keeper is fully fit or possibly until the end of his loan spell. As it was, he had an absolute nightmare and they probably decided it was better to bring the first choice back sooner.

The highlights from last night don't give me much confidence. Great save but after coming out and not getting a cross and watching one loop onto the bar.

 

[EddieColquhoun]

Slater’s dad on our current management:


“Other than McCall who I think is superb the other 2 are more interested in their own careers”

 

[billyblademan]

Slater’s dad on our current management:


“Other than McCall who I think is superb the other 2 are more interested in their own careers”

Other 2 presumably being PH and JL.

JL is a Blade, coaching the strikers, and having a hand in player development. Short of wanting to be a manager himself (which didn't he do at Chessie?), I'm not sure what more he'd be wanting.

For PH, this is his ticket to manage in the Prem, and that has been his ultimate focus - quite rightly, given the precarious financial position of the club. Has that hindered some of the youth, as we've kept them around as backup rather than out on loan? Probably. Was it necessary to do so? Again, probably. I'm sure next year, the likes of Arblaster, and Brooks won't be squad cover, and will be out on loan, as well as numerous others.

 

[Balham Blade]

Slater’s dad on our current management:


“Other than McCall who I think is superb the other 2 are more interested in their own careers”

Heckingbottom may be more interested in his own career but it appears to me that he's realised that his success is inextricably linked to both the performance of the team as a whole and the individuals within that.

The only possible complaint could be that he's used declining senior professionals (eg Stevens, Sharp, Fleck) ahead of promising but unproven younger players, particularly off the bench.

 

[Isaw Joeshaw]

Slater’s dad on our current management:


“Other than McCall who I think is superb the other 2 are more interested in their own careers”

That’s not what others have said .

In an interview a few months ago , McBurnie was full of praise for Jack Lester and the work he has put in with him and the other strikers and I’m told Ndyaye has expressed similar views .

 

[S64 Blade]

Slater’s dad on our current management:


“Other than McCall who I think is superb the other 2 are more interested in their own careers”

Slater's dad seems more interested in being the centre of attention on social media, than being there for his son.

 

[Grizzly blade]

Not true though is it? Both would have played a significant amount of games this year.

I agree you simply can't keep every player who makes a career in football, but we let Slater go when we were short of midfielders after messing him around for the best part of 2 years. Whiteman as well didn't get a chance and had two successful loans before we let him go as well.

There are obviously other factors at play off the pitch with all players, but they're both clearly good enough to be squad players, at least.

You’re entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is.
And on this you are simply wrong…miles off…seen plenty of Slater this season to know he’s nowhere near our midfield, we have better youth players in the 21’s. Yes he might get stuck in, but we need better than that and thankfully those employed to make such decisions knew that too.
So no, neither of them would have played a significant amount of games this season…maybe a cup game or two and that would have been it.

 

[Berkshire Blade]

If two or three of our youth make it as pros that's good going. If one makes it with us that's success. It's bloody hard! How many have truly come from the academy to being strong starters for us in the last 5 or so years? Brooks, RND, Ndiaye and that's about it. Jebbo closest to breaking through but he's not even proven in the championship when we are heading a level above.

 

[billyblademan]

Wonder whether another interview with Derek Geary may be possible YorkBlade during the season break to shed light on a couple of these questions?

 

[robbiez666]

You’re entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is.
And on this you are simply wrong…miles off…seen plenty of Slater this season to know he’s nowhere near our midfield, we have better youth players in the 21’s. Yes he might get stuck in, but we need better than that and thankfully those employed to make such decisions knew that too.
So no, neither of them would have played a significant amount of games this season…maybe a cup game or two and that would have been it.

Is this Regan Slater who picked up players and fans player of the season yesterday?

They must all be miles off.

 

[Grizzly blade]

Is this Regan Slater who picked up players and fans player of the season yesterday?

They must all be miles off.

That wasn’t hard…half his midfield competition been injured most the season, and they just voted the best from what’s been a pretty below average bunch!
So yes…the very same.

Miles away from Uniteds current midfield

 

[robbiez666]

That wasn’t hard…half his midfield competition been injured most the season, and they just voted the best from what’s been a pretty below average bunch!
So yes…the very same.

Miles away from Uniteds current midfield

So, worse than Fleck and Osborn in midfield then? Hull's player of the season.

 

[Grizzly blade]

So, worse than Fleck and Osborn in midfield then? Hull's player of the season.

Yep. Not as versatile as Osborn position wise and not left footed like them both either.
Bleat all you like, but go away and learn the type of midfielder Slater is and where he plays for Hull…then compare him to players who perform a similar role for us before trying to come back with another reason why we should have kept him.

Will help you out:,..better than Norwood and Doyle then?

Fact is, he was in his early 20’s, had loans at Scunny which went poorly, and then Hull which went ok at a team looking likely to go down. New owner came in and bought a lot of players for them including him.
We let him go cheaply out of respect for the player to ensure he got a move where he wanted to go. He wanted to play regular and needed to so wouldn’t have signed a new contract anyway!
He’s had a good season at a mid table club because he has played. He wouldn’t have featured here at a top champ club over Norwood or Doyle or Berge and so wouldn’t have got better as a result.

Would you rather have kept him over Doyle or
mcAtee?

 

[Champagneblade]

Other 2 presumably being PH and JL.

JL is a Blade, coaching the strikers, and having a hand in player development. Short of wanting to be a manager himself (which didn't he do at Chessie?), I'm not sure what more he'd be wanting.

For PH, this is his ticket to manage in the Prem, and that has been his ultimate focus - quite rightly, given the precarious financial position of the club. Has that hindered some of the youth, as we've kept them around as backup rather than out on loan? Probably. Was it necessary to do so? Again, probably. I'm sure next year, the likes of Arblaster, and Brooks won't be squad cover, and will be out on loan, as well as numerous others.

I don’t see how being interested in his own career is a bad thing. He isn’t going to enhance his career by doing a poor job at United, SK what’s the issue? He’d need a couple of good top flight years to even attract a club bigger than us. Either way, win-win.

Maybe he is happy to criticise as his boy was let go?

 

[Silent Blade]

Slater’s dad on our current management:


“Other than McCall who I think is superb the other 2 are more interested in their own careers”

When I think of his dad

 

[Wards]

Arblaster should get his chance, as should the likes of Brooks and Peck soon.

All it took was Wilder to come back, who'd have thunk it...